Rebalancing/Redesigning King Dedede

Joined
Aug 9, 2015
Messages
558
#1
Mini-Redesign/Rebalance Threads

:ultmario: Mario

:ultdk: Donkey Kong

:ultkirby: Kirby

:ultbrawler: Mii Brawler
In my quest to try and give heavy characters much better tools as well as quell my everlasting boredom waiting for Ultimate, I will now be trying to give a coherent redesigning, retooling, rebalancing, or whatever of my favorite Smash character, King Dedede.

If you guys care enough, I did one of these with Samus, and I did her first because she's been a heavy character in a rough spot for most of the Smash series, with the one exception of Melee (and even then, not exactly super top material). It was a first idea, and it involved a LOT of new moves because I'm a fan of Metroid Prime, so it was very long and arduous. I will try to keep that in check here and only have one or two new moves that I feel will work with Dedede really well while referencing his best moments in the Kirby series.

----------------------------------

Like with all of my "rebalancing" exercises, I will showcase what I believe the character's purposes should be overall, as well as the strengths and weaknesses they should have.

----------------------------------

King Dedede:ultkingdedede:

Purpose: Trapper/Highly defensive neutral/Average comboer/Very poor disadvantage

Strengths should be:

Proficiency in creating traps for opponents
Very high range and very high priority
Above average shield damage
Defensive based combo starters
High overall damage pokes

Weaknesses should be:

Very easy to combo
Low aerial and ground mobility
Traps can be countered
Hard to land kill options without traps
Bad approach

-----------------------------------

Like I did with Samus, some general statistics for Dedede. Most of these are universal for all characters, but will be here for emphasis.

------------------------------------

General Statistics::ultkingdedede:

  • Super heavy weight
  • Very low walk speed
  • Below average run speed
    • (Walk speed and run speed would be more compacted for the slowest and fastest characters. With this in mind, Dedede would have faster movement than even what is shown in Ultimate so far)
  • Very low horizontal air speed
  • Standardized first jump
    • (All first jumps for all characters will be the same height: around 80% the height of the top platform in Battlefield)
  • Below average double jump height
    • (Baseline for double jump will be lower than it is now, but varied between characters: Dedede's new jump height would be about 90% of his current double jump height in Smash 4)
  • Multiple double jumps
  • Very fast fall speed
  • Wall Jump (All characters will be able to wall jump, but not all can wall cling)
  • Average roll distance
    • (All characters will have the same frame data on rolls, with the only real variance between them being distance)
  • Above average shield health
    • (Shield health would now differ between characters, with the baseline being 100 shield health. Dedede's would have 120)
---------------------------------

So Dedede's attributes would be pretty much the same as they are now, with low movement in all aspects besides how potentially high he can go for recovery. Though he would have a wall jump just like I would give to every character, because why not? The best way to balance characters is to give a lot of universal mobility options (which is why I advocate for something akin to wavedashing being more or less the same throughout the characters).

This goes to the roll. Dedede's roll would be average distance, but match in frame data to everyone else. This average roll distance makes it so he can't get out of sticky situations simply by dodging around, despite me giving him "defense" as an overarching strength. This is to make sure his disadvantage is still mediocre. However, his roll will still function as a roll, meaning things that are usually dodged with rolls will still be dodgeable.

Lastly, there's the buffed first jump, which I will just copy paste this explanation from the Samus post:

But why would I buff almost all single jumps but nerf most double jumps? The idea is that just like airdodging, jumping is a great way to dodge out of a disadvantageous position. By having them be shorter, the ability to simply jump out of trouble is more limited, since the enemy can chase in equal measure or even more if they hit the ground and jump again due to the higher single jump. On top of this, it leaves edgeguarding even more in favor of the person in advantage, since they have a much easier time catching jumps as well as harder for people offstage since their one jump is worse. We would still have ledge trumping, so it wouldn't be hopeless, but definitely harder.
Lower double jump means Dedede will have a hard time getting out of combos, being true to his weakness.

So enough about overall weaknesses, now to my ideas on how to rebalance this sexy king. ;)

-----------------------------------

:GCA::GCA::GCA:Jab:

  • Two swings in front, followed by a mallet twirl and uppercut finisher. Twirl is a rapid jab
    • All jabs combo into each other by default at all ranges
  • Jab 1 and 2 have very low endlag, allowing for quick followups
  • Finisher has average endlag
  • Very high priority
  • Average startup for a jab
  • High range
  • Jab 1 and 2 are safe on shield; Rapid jab finisher is barely safe
  • Knockback on finisher is upwards at 55 degrees
  • Very low shield damage on Jab 1 and 2, but respectable amount on rapid jab and finisher
  • Approximate damage numbers:
    • Jab 1: 2.0%
    • Jab 2: 2.5%
    • Rapid jab: 1.0% * 2.5 per second
    • Rapid jab finisher: 7.5%
  • Approximate kill times:
    • Finisher: 140%

-----------------------------------

Not much change here, except that I would definitely speed up the startup on Jab 1 to be more in line with other jabs, if only to ensure a good OOS option for Dedede, as well as an easier time reacting to Gordo deflects. Also, Jab 1 can combo into Jab 2 at all ranges, giving it reliability. And like Dedede's main strengths say, it will have both high range and priority, making it difficult to contest at all. The downside is that the first two jabs would have much lower damage to compensate for their buffs.

The last big change is that the first two hits are safe on shield and the finisher barely is, furthering Dedede's shield pressure strength with more than just damage, but also a safe rapid jab finisher.

-----------------------------------

:GCA::GCR:FTilt:

  • Outstretches the mallet and spins it. Long lasting hitbox
    • Is able to be tilted doward and upward slightly
    • Has sourspot on the handle and sweetspot on the mallet head
      • Sourspots would knockback into the sweetspots
  • Very high priority and range
    • Range would be more akin to Brawl, where Dedede holds the mallet at the very tip of the handle
  • Above average starting lag
  • Slightly high endlag
  • Barely safe on shield and deals average shield damage for sweetspots
  • Knockback would be slightly upwards at 25 degrees for both sweetspot and sourspot
  • Approximate damage numbers:
    • Sourspots: 2.1% * 5
      • Sourspot total: 10.5%
    • Weak sweetspots: 2.3% * 4
    • Final sweetspot: 4.5%
      • Sweetspot total: 13.7%
  • Approximate kill times:
    • Final sourspot: 180%
    • Final sweetspot: 150%

-----------------------------------

So the biggest change here is making the range more like Brawl where it is ridiculous. Plus, an added sourspot/sweetspot duality to make sure it isn't TOO strong. Otherwise, the point of the move is still the same, which is to keep people away, as well as catch rolls and landings. However, in keeping with Dedede's strengths I mentioned, this move has high priority, meaning even other disjoints might not stop this move from performing, giving Dedede an iron wall defense even at the sourspots. Not only that, but the sweetspots do a good amount of damage at 13.7%, making it a potent damage option if you hit it, following the "high damage pokes" strength he has. It also is barely safe on shield at any place and does a good amount of shield damage, making it a fine anti-approach option as well as a good shield pressure tool. On top of all that, it can be tilted, giving it some anti-air properties. The only big downside is the frame data of the move, but we have to have a downside somewhere right? :p

-----------------------------------

:GCA::GCU:UTilt:

  • An arcing headbutt. Head and body have separate hitboxes
    • Intangibility throughout the move for most of Dedede's body and entire head
  • Low startup
  • High endlag
  • High hitstun
  • Unsafe on shield
  • High shield damage
  • Knockback angle for both hitboxes would be upwards behind Dedede at 100 degrees
  • Base knockback would be low to allow for combos
  • Approximate damage numbers:
    • Body: 10.8%
    • Head: 13.1%
  • Approximate kill times:
    • Body: 165%
    • Head: 130%

-----------------------------------

Repurposing this move into Dedede's premier example of the one strength I haven't really touched on yet, his "defense based combo starters". This would be one of his more useful ones, since it gives full intangibility so it cannot be hit out of, and deals a significant amount of damage for how much it can combo into both itself as well as other moves due to its high hitstun, which is mostly there because it has high endlag to make it punishable on whiff. It is also punishable on block too, so this move is definitely more about stopping assaults from above with impunity and doing reversals.

-----------------------------------

:GCA::GCD:DTilt:

  • A cartwheel forward. Can be done in reverse direction from crouch and has a sweetspot and late sourspot
    • Sweetspot and sourspot would be throughout the body, removing the blind spot
    • Cannot trip
  • Very low startup
  • Slightly above average endlag
  • Barely safe on shield
  • Low shield damage
  • Knockback angle is upwards at 45 degrees for both hitboxes
  • Base knockback is very low to allow for combos
  • Approximate damage numbers:
    • Sweetspot: 9.0%
    • Late sourspot: 8.0%
  • Approximate kill times:
    • Sweetspot: 360%
    • Sourspot: 400%

-----------------------------------

One of Dedede's neutral tools and still would be his fastest move startup wise. But now it is safe on shield, but just barely. Not enough for it to be spammable on shield, but enough to pressure them regardless. And as always, it has good knockback angles right in front of Dedede to work with and even has a damage buff on the sourspot. It even loses its blind spot because why is that there?

However, it cannot trip whatsoever, it loses a tiny bit of damage on the sweetspot, and the endlag is still hefty if you don't hit a shield, so you can still whiff and be punished enough to get comboed. But overall, it is a very versatile move.

-----------------------------------

:GCR::GCR::GCA:Dash Attack:

  • The signature belly flop. Destroys projectiles throughout the move. Long lasting hitbox
    • (Projectile destruction is a universal aspect of all dash attacks)
    • Has a sweetspot on landing and a sourspot late into the slide
  • Slide would move Dedede forward quite a bit
  • Very high shield damage
  • Very unsafe on shield
  • High startup
  • Above average priority
  • Below average endlag
  • Knockback would be high at 50 degrees
  • Approximate damage numbers:
    • Sweetspot: 17.5%
    • Sourspot: 12.8%
  • Approximate kill times:
    • Sweetspot: 70%
    • Sourspot: 95%

-----------------------------------

The first thing to mention is the projectile destruction. I think a good way to give all dash attacks a good niche (since they have a bad rep for being too niche already) is to make them an anti-zone tool for all characters. This would give every character, even the projectile-less ones, some way to close distance safely. Granted, some projectiles might be able to just ignore this (in fact, you might see this very soon), but for the most part, projectiles will just disappear when hitting a dash attack. Now, dash attacks will still be overall unsafe, but have an actual niche going for them.

As for Dedede's specifically, not much changes. Still slow, still massively powerful, still does good shield damage. However, I think I would want him to slide further, giving him more range. However, since this would still be unsafe on shield, his "approach" weakness is still intact despite being able to go through projectiles. Only really use this in neutral for a big projectile with a lot of endlag.

-----------------------------------

:GCCR:FSmash:

  • New move: A powerful overhead swing, followed by multiple shockwaves in front of the mallet. Shockwaves become taller the more charged up the attack is
    • Two sourspots on the mallet coming overhead, one sweetspot across the ground on impact, and five quick shockwave hitboxes
      • Shockwaves in total last for about 1.3 seconds
  • Transcendent priority
  • Very high startup
  • Very low endlag
  • Overhead sourspots knockback high at 100 and 80 degrees respectively
  • Sweetspot knocks back at 50 degrees
  • Shockwaves knock back at 90 degrees and have low base knockback
  • High shield damage on sweetspot as well as pushback into shockwaves
  • Below average shield damage on shockwaves and sourspots
  • Safe on shield
  • Approximate damage numbers:
    • Sourspots: 10.0%-14.0%
    • Sweetspot: 27.2%-38.1%
    • Shockwaves: 12.2%/11.0%/9.8%/8.6%/7.4%-17.1%/15.4%/13.7%/12.0%/10.4%
  • Approximate damage numbers:
    • Sourspots: 100%-80%
    • Sweetspot: 35%-10%
    • Shockwaves: 135%/140%/145%/150%/155%

-----------------------------------

Well I guess this is more like FSmash PLUS some shockwaves, but the point of this overhaul is to give FSmash more practical use without removing its main weakness of high starting lag, as well as give Dedede a powerful trap option, at least temporarily. The range of the shockwaves would make the FSmash pretty much increase in range by 50%, and they would be pretty wide, meaning in front of the mallet, foes will get trapped, forcing themselves to shield or take damage and most likely be comboed, since the shockwaves have low knockback and FSmash has low endlag. Of course, if they shield, they will be grabbed, putting the enemy in a lose-lose situation, and allowing Dedede to set up other traps potentially.

As always, the downside is high startup, being the highest in the game, but the kill power is still immense on the sweetspot, and it pushes enemies back into the shockwave if they shield it, causing even more shield damage and making it safe on shield. This move will definitely have use as an anti-air as well, since the shockwaves will rise the longer you charge, making it able to catch jumps on the ledge as well as low platforms like Battlefield.

Hopefully these changes will not make FSmash into a joke of a move and more of a terrifying tool in Dedede's arsenal.

-----------------------------------

:GCCU:USmash:

  • Arcing hammer swing upwards. Has a sweetspot and late sourspot, as well as a body sourspot
    • Sweetspot starts in front of Dedede
    • Late sourspot is on the hammer behind Dedede
      • This removes the blind spots on the sides of Dedede
  • Transcendent priority
  • Has above average startup
  • Has high endlag
  • Has very high shield damage on sweetspot and high shield damage on sourspots
  • Is unsafe on shield for sweetspot, but safe on sourspot
  • Knockback angle for sweetspot and body sourspot is upwards behind Dedede at 110 degrees
  • Late sourspot knockback angle is behind Dedede slightly upwards at 165 degrees
  • Approximate damage numbers:
    • Sweetspot: 15.0%-21.0%
    • Body sourspot: 9.0%-12.6%
    • Late sourspot: 10.4%-14.6%
  • Approximate kill times:
    • Sweetspot: 115%-85%
    • Body sourspot: 120%-100%
    • Late sourspot: 135%-115%

-----------------------------------

Fitting with Dedede's weakness of "hard to confirm kill options", this USmash still has a bit of startup to it and it's unsafe on shield if you sweetspot it, so you can't really run in and pressure with it. However, the sourspot is safe, so a turnaround is possible at the expense of more startup technically. It's a bit weird, but it fits with his weakness here. On the strength side of things, it is amazing against shields no matter where it is hit, which can make it a quick shield breaking option. And like all of Dedede's smashes, it has transcendent priority, making it very difficult to trade with without Dedede hitting somehow. It's still a pretty good kill move overall though, even though it pales in comparison to other smashes of similar damage numbers.

The biggest change however is the fact it no longer has a blind spot on either side of Dedede, giving it more overall functionality.

-----------------------------------

:GCCD::GCCD:DSmash:

  • New sequence: Sweeps the hammer on the floor. Can press it again to swing in the reverse direction with increased range.
    • This means there is a new DSmash 2 move
    • DSmash 2 can be delayed
  • Transcendent priority
  • Slightly below average startup for DSmash 1 and very low startup for DSmash 2
  • Average endlag for both stages with DSmash 1 being slightly lower
  • DSmash 1 is barely safe on shield while DSmash 2 is not
  • Low shield damage for both stages
  • Knocks back shielded opponents with DSmash 2 knocking back much more
  • DSmash 1 and 2 knock back in a semi-spike at 350 degrees or 190 degrees depending on direction
    • Will be guaranteed to trip opponents on the ground
      • Trip lasts slightly longer the more charge is on the Smash attack
      • DSmash 2 will trip for longer regardless
  • Approximate damage numbers:
    • DSmash 1: 7.5%-10.5%
    • DSmash 2: 5.0%-7.0%
  • Approximate kill times:
    • DSmash 1: 180%-155%
    • DSmash 2: 140%-115%

-----------------------------------

Okay, let me explain. Well first, the few things that are the same. DSmash is still a semi-spike, allowing for edgeguarding situations to happen and it still catches rolls fine enough. It's also still Dedede's fastest Smash attack. However, the similarities end there. The main purpose of this move is to be used as a mind game within itself. What does that mean? Well first off, the first twirl around will trip opponents and knock them back ever so slightly, and from there, a Dedede player can figure out what they should do to the opponent. If they expect them to fully tech, then doing the second hit will work without incident, causing them to trip again at a distance in order to allow Dedede to set up any form of tech chase he wishes, mostly with his projectiles. On the other hand, a Dedede can easily not use the second hit at all to trick the opponent into rolling or getting up normal, which would be able to deal with the second hit fine, and instead get a followup on them. Again, it's a mind game within itself.

However, it comes with one downside. The second hit is unsafe on shield, meaning if used incorrectly, can cause disadvantage immediately, the worst aspect of Dedede. Aside from that, the first hit is safe on shield if only a little, still allowing for the second hit to happen via a slight delay between them. And the last, easily overlooked aspect (by me lol), is that you can basically catch crossups twice over if you really need to. Not super useful, but it's there.

Hopefully this isn't super out there, since this works similarly to Link's FSmash stages.

-----------------------------------

:GCX::GCA:NAir:

  • A splashing maneuver. Has an early and late hitbox.
  • Transcendent priority
  • Has a long hitbox time
  • Has very low base knockback and growth for combos
  • Extremely low landing lag
  • Average startup
  • Very low endlag
  • Knockback angle for both hitboxes is upwards at 60 degrees
  • Approximate damage numbers:
    • Early hitbox: 12.7%
    • Late hitbox: 9.0%
  • Approximate kill times:
    • Early hitbox: 400%
    • Late hitbox: 800%

-----------------------------------

Pretty much the same move, except I would increase the startup slightly if only to solidify Dedede's weakness of being bad in disadvantage. In exchange, it has a solid knockback angle and a bit more damage, as well as a longer hitbox giving it more leeway for fast fall comboing. Another one of Dedede's "defense based combo starters" since despite its higher startup, it will basically not allow people to touch Dedede in melee range for a while due to transcendent priority.

As for landing lag, I think it should be close to the empty landing lag for maximum fast fall combo/followup ability.

-----------------------------------

:GCX::GCR::GCA:FAir:

  • A downward swing accompanied with a somersault. Has a sweetspot in the middle of the swing as well as two sourspots at the beginning and end of the swing
  • Average startup
  • Below average endlag
  • Average landing lag
  • High hitstun on sourspots
  • Sweetspot would knockback in a spiking manner at 290 degrees
    • Spike would be techable, but with noticeable delay
  • Early sourspot would knockback very closely above at 45 degrees
  • Late sourspot would knockback behind Dedede very closely at 200 degrees
  • Unsafe on shield when landing, barely safe on shield while only in midair
  • Transcendent priority
  • Low shield damage
  • Approximate damage numbers:
    • Early sourspot: 8.5%
    • Sweetspot: 11.2%
    • Late sourspot: 8.0%
  • Approximate kill times:
    • Sourspots: 195%
    • Sweetspot: 160%

-----------------------------------

This is Dedede's designated multipurpose aerial. It can do many things depending on where you hit the opponent. The sourspots work as early and late combo starters due to low base knockback and knockback growth as well as having extra hitstun, the sweetspot is a spike that is not very good at meteor smashing like Mario's, but makes up for it with the ability to cause a tech chase situation, and best of all, it is rather easy to spam as a walling option due to transcendent priority and being safe on shield if Dedede hits without landing.

The only thing this move isn't good at is killing, and it isn't a good landing option due to the landing lag being a tiny bit too high compared to its shieldstun, but overall, I want this move to be Dedede's designated multipurpose move for both creating tech chase "traps" (especially since the tech takes a bit longer to start) as well as a good combo starter, giving credence to his "high damage combo starter" strength as well as giving him yet another way to create lose-lose situations for opponents.

-----------------------------------

:GCX::GCL::GCA:BAir:

  • A sideways hammer swing behind Dedede. Has a sourspot on the body and a sweetspot on the hammer
  • Transcendent priority
  • High startup
  • Average endlag
  • Low landing lag
  • Safe on shield for both hitboxes, more so for sweetspot
  • Average shield damage
  • Knockback would be at the Sakurai angle for both sweetspot and sourspot
  • Approximate damage numbers:
    • Sweetspot: 13.2%
    • Sourspot: 10.5%
  • Approximate kill times:
    • Sweetspot: 110%
    • Sourspot: 125%

-----------------------------------

This would follow the new BAir animation of Ultimate, which is more accurate to the hitbox placement. I would also add a body hitbox with less damage and slightly less shieldstun for a bit of encouraging ranged play. The biggest change here is the higher startup and higher power. Fitting with Dedede's weakness of "relying on traps to kill", this killing aerial is harder to just hit in neutral, but still manageable considering Dedede's fast fall speed can allow for "frame perfect" landing BAirs. :p

At the same time, it is safe on shield regardless of where you hit, so it can still be used as a defensive measure for spacing even with the higher startup.

-----------------------------------

:GCX::GCU::GCA:UAir:

  • A skyward hammer twirl. Multihits with 8 hits total.
    • Multihit does not lock opponents to Dedede's trajectory
  • Transcendent priority
  • Average shield damage
  • Slightly unsafe on shield
  • Knockback is upwards at 80 degrees
  • Low startup
  • Above average endlag
  • Above average landing lag
  • Approximate damage numbers:
    • Multihits: 1.2% * 7
    • Final hit: 5.6%
    • Total: 14.0%
  • Approximate kill times:
    • Final hit: 155%

-----------------------------------

Dedede's other multipurpose aerial; good for sharking, especially considering the transcendence, good for combos considering the low startup, and overall a good poking tool in neutral for catching jumps due to its good damage and range. However, it has quite a bit of endlag, a lot of landing lag, and has much less kill power in order to keep with Dedede's weakness of "unreliable kill power without traps". However, it can still kill at later percentages, making it more of a mid game stock ender if you need. Lastly, it doesn't lock the opponent into the multihit, which means fast falling won't drag them with Dedede, making it more of a combo ender.

-----------------------------------

:GCX::GCD::GCA:DAir:

  • New move: Twirls the hammer downwards, holding it out a bit
    • Is now a multihit with 8 total hits
  • Multihit will lock players to follow Dedede's falling
  • Transcendent priority
  • High range
  • Below average shield damage
  • Average startup
  • Low endlag
  • Above average landing lag
  • Unsafe on shield when landing, safe when not
  • Knockback on final hit is at the Sakurai angle
  • Approximate damage numbers:
    • Multihits: 1.5% * 7
    • Final hit: 4.6%
    • Total: 15.1%
  • Approximate kill times:
    • Final hit: 155%

-----------------------------------

This goes way back to Brawl's style of DAir for Dedede, except this time, the multihit would actually work. Due to Dedede's fast falling speed, you can easily gimp someone by simply dragging them to the abyss and recovering yourself if you really wish. On top of that, it has a lot of damage for something with low endlag and average startup, making it a good anti-sharking tool as well as another in a series of good shield pressure options for Dedede, considering it is safe on shield if you don't land with it and is transcendent priority AND has higher range than the average aerial due to Dedede holding the handle closer to the tip.

The biggest downside with this move is that it sucks when landing, so it isn't the greatest for getting out of disadvantage entirely, as is Dedede's weakness. It also isn't the greatest at killing, but overall, I think it will be a good tool for Dedede to use in the air for getting out of juggling situations as well as pressuring opponents.

-----------------------------------

:GCB:Neutral-B:

  • Inhale: Dedede inhales in place, acting as a command grab that can catch either players or projectiles and spit them out. Opponents can mash out of Dedede prematurely or mash out of the projectile he can spit out before it reaches max distance.
    • Can hold onto projectiles and opponents for a few seconds and walk around and multijump at decreased air speed
      • Can do this for about 4 seconds maximum regardless of opponent's percentage
      • Can hold on to even explosive projectiles for 1 second before they explode, stunning Dedede for a second
  • Has average starting lag
  • Vortex has a bit of range
  • Has heavy armor
    • (Not all projectiles are able to be inhaled, like Sheik's needles)
  • Has low endlag
    • Has slightly lower endlag when ending in the air
  • Projectile reflection multiplier: 1.2x
  • Approximate damage numbers:
    • Early escape: 5.0%
    • Spit: 11.2%

-----------------------------------

So with Ultimate's buff to Inhale spitting projectiles just fine, I think a few more buffs are in order. Firstly, it would have less startup and much less endlag, especially in the air, making it an airborne grab of sorts, it would have heavy armor to deal with lighter projectiles that it can't inhale, and it can now allow Dedede to jump and even multijump when holding something for a nice 4 second window. This max window doesn't count percentage, making it consistent for the enemy to escape, but otherwise, it is buffed overall.

On top of all that, I would definitely add the ability to actually have a chance to spit out explosive projectiles as well as not hurt Dedede if he doesn't spit them. This can definitely give much more utility and less hard counters to Inhale.

-----------------------------------

:GCL::GCB::GCR:Side-B:

  • Gordo Throw: Spawns a Gordo and swings the hammer to cause it to bounce in a set pattern. Has a total of 6 patterns depending on direction held as well as tilting vs smash attack input
    • Gordo lasts for about 4.5 seconds total by default
    • Doing this move while the Gordo is active will cause a quick hammer swing uppercut
    • Gordo can be reflected back with anything doing above 2.5% damage and will increase in duration by 1.25 seconds
      • Gordos will speed up every time they are reflected by around 1.4x
    • Hitting a Gordo at a wall or ledge will cause it to stick for the rest of its lifetime
      • Cannot reflect stuck Gordos, but can dislodge them with any move above 4% damage
    • Dedede takes 50% of the damage, hitstun, and knockback of reflected Gordos
  • Knockback angle will be at the Sakurai angle by default
    • Knockback angle will be mirrored if coming from the knockback of another move
    • Knockback from reflecting move will be added on top of the base knockback at a factor of 0.6
  • Knockback angle of uppercut will be sideways at 40 degrees
  • Has very low priority
  • Below average shield damage
  • Very high startup setting up Gordo
  • Low startup on uppercut
  • Low endlag on both Gordo setup and uppercut
  • Gordo landing is safe on shield, uppercut alone is not
  • Approximate damage numbers:
    • Uppercut: 8.2%
    • Gordo: 9.0%
      • Damage from reflecting move will be added on top of base damage by a factor of 0.6
  • Approximate kill times:
    • Uppercut: 250%
    • Gordo: 300%

-----------------------------------

Same old same old. Dedede's most versatile move. One of the best mindgame tools ever conceived, at least in my opinion, and would be mostly unchanged barring a few tweaks and a new complimentary move. First off, I would decrease the endlag of the move by a bit, making it more useful to Dedede for both reflecting it as well as using it in general since it just needs to be set up. Second, the angle by default would be the Sakurai angle, potentially making it a bit more of a zoning tool at lower percents since grounded opponents will be left knocked back a little bit instead of sent airborne. Another added bonus is more duration and a static added duration when reflected, giving it a bit more concrete stats. In addition, the base knockback would be pretty standard with the knockback growth being minimal, and reflecting the Gordo will give 60% of that reflecting move's damage and knockback on top of what the Gordo already has, meaning most of the kill power of Gordo will come from reflections rather than itself, which is sort of how it works right now, admittedly.

However, a big change is that if using a move to knock into a Gordo, the move's knockback angle will be mirrored off of the Gordo, which can allow for very dynamic followup potential. For example, doing UThrow into the bottom of the Gordo will cause the opponent to bounce back downwards. Note that this does not cause extra knockback or damage on the Gordo's part, meaning this feature will act more like a "conduit" of endless possibilities for followups rather than just killing the opponent outright.

The last huge change is the uppercut working like Villager's axe where it is a very quick move that can be used while the Gordo is out, and considering the increased duration, it will definitely see use. Plus, considering how fast it is, it can be used as a quick turnaround reflection move for Dedede, especially considering the added startup on NAir. Or, you can always Inhale the Gordo as shown in the Ultimate trailers. Another small feature is Gordo speeding up whenever it is reflected, which gives a fun dynamic where higher damage moves will give more power to the Gordo, but might be caught by a rebound from Dedede, whereas quicker moves might not.

If that wasn't enough, Dedede gets a 50% decrease on everything bad should he fail his reflection. Still punishing, but not stock ending.

-----------------------------------

:GCU::GCB:Up-B:

  • New sequence: Super Dedede Jump: Jumps very quickly upwards and then descends to the ground, causing shockwaves in the form of stars on either side of Dedede. Can adjust height of the ascent; holding the button will continue the ascent, and letting go will prematurely start the descent.
    • Hitboxes are only active on descent and shockwave
      • Has a strong spike hitbox on descent that can bury grounded opponents. Sweetspot is below Dedede's landing
      • Sourspots are the stars spawned on either side of Dedede
    • Can cancel the jump to heavily lower landing lag at the expense of no descending hitbox and freefall
      • No longer has special fall animation when cancelling close to the ground
  • Massive shield damage, even on sourspots
  • High landing lag
  • Safe on shield for sweetspot, unsafe on sourspot
  • Sourspots cause knockback at the Sakurai angle, even on shielded opponents
    • Sourspots would have a set knockback of around the length of one Dedede width
  • Sweetspot knockback is exactly upwards at 90 degrees
  • Angle of jump would be a maximum of 40 degrees in either direction
  • Ascent has super armor
    • Super armor would be active on startup
  • Approximate damage numbers:
    • Descent: 6.0%
    • Landing sweetspot: 22.1%
    • Landing sourspots: 6.5%
  • Approximate kill times:
    • Descent: 40%
    • Landing sweetspot: 60%

-----------------------------------

Something I will make readily apparent is that I want Up Specials to be quite usable in many more situations than just recovery. To wit, I decided that the ability to control Dedede's ascent height for his SDJ would be a nice change of pace. It will still be unsafe on shield unless landing right onto them, it will still break shields easily, it will still bury on the first hit towards grounded opponents, it still has armor, and it still meteor smashes. However, to add to the functionality buff, I think removing the super long endlag to take much more advantage of the burying aspect is a good idea. As a compromise, the descending hitbox does far less damage, making the question of whether to cancel at all less binary, especially considering the gargantuan damage buff on the actual landing.

Meanwhile, the stars on either side of Dedede, despite still causing disadvantage on shield, will nevertheless cause a good amount of pushback, making them slightly safer than they are on paper, especially against kill moves.

So overall, I think this gives this move a much broader purpose in functionality, leaving disadvantage with the armor on startup, doing short distance jumps to go over projectiles, and still is just as good a recovery move as before.

-----------------------------------

:GCD::GCB::GCB::GCB:Down-B:

  • New move: Jet Missiles: Will stake the hammer into the ground, open one face of the mallet, and shoot slow moving destructible missiles forward similar to Masked Dedede's move in Kirby Super Star Ultra. Can angle the shot and shoot up to three missiles. Missiles will explode on contact, or be stopped with damage, after which they will explode. Dedede himself can destroy these missiles and be hurt by them
    • Takes a move with at least 2.5% damage to stop the missiles
    • Missiles will shoot forward, with the angle of the shot controlling only the altitude of the missile
      • Highest altitude would be right above the lower Battlefield platforms, while the lowest would be right on the ground
    • Takes about 1.2 seconds to explode after being fully disabled
      • While disabled, the missiles will start to descend slightly
    • Dedede takes 50% of the damage, knockback, and hitstun of the explosions
  • Has very low priority
  • Explosion radius is very large
    • Explosion radius is less when from a disabled missile
  • Missiles are very large and can block other projectiles
  • Cannot be fully dissipated
    • (This means my idea for universal dash attack projectile destruction will not fully work on them and will instead cause them to disable and explode)
  • Max missile duration is around 5 seconds
    • They will explode if they expire
  • High shield damage
    • Shield damage is severely lessened if disabled before exploding
  • High shieldstun
    • Shieldstun is lessened if disabled before exploding
  • Knockback is at the Sakurai angle
  • High startup
  • Above average endlag
  • Approximate damage numbers:
    • Direct explosion: 11.0%
    • Disabled missile explosion: 7.5%
  • Approximate kill times:
    • Direct explosion: 95%
    • Disabled missile explosion: 130%

-----------------------------------

Here's the main change to Dedede I would make, and wow it's complicated. So basically, to compliment Dedede's more neutral heavy defensive style, I think giving him another projectile that can't be reflected back at him is a good idea. However, to compliment his trapper playstyle, these missiles come with a catch. On their own, they are absolutely devastating damage wise and knockback wise, and they deal a lot of shield damage. Add this to the fact that Dedede can choose to shoot only one or three in pretty quick succession and that they are thick enough to straight up block projectiles and you can see that it basically forces an approach.

However, there is another choice the enemy can do to weaken the missiles: they can attack them in midair! This weakens the missile overall, but leaves them in precarious position regardless because the missile will still explode after a tiny bit of time, leaving them to choose whether to take the hit and still be chipped while also running the risk of Dedede causing them to fall into a trapping scenario due to his okay endlag, or try to dodge by it or jump, all of which can be caught by a smart Dedede player by shooting a missile upwards or downwards or simply approaching themselves. Now imagine this scenario with a Gordo active as well as the fact that Dedede, and by extension the Gordo, can disable these missiles to explode prematurely, and you got a recipe for hyper defensive bullet hell.

However, these missiles still need to be set up just like Gordo, and from there it has significant startup and not great endlag to compensate. In addition, doing this at close range can mean bad news, since Dedede is damaged by these missiles too. This can also give some credence to the enemy for waiting to get hit by a disabled missile's explosion in order to bait Dedede into getting hit or simply getting closer to remove his zoning capability.

All in all, I think this is a very unique form of trap based projectile that compliments Dedede's playstyle.

-----------------------------------

:GCZ:Grab and Pummel:

  • Average range melee grab
  • Average standardized grab frame data
    • (There would be three standardized frame data "rankings" for melee grabs)
      • (Fast: 6 frame standing grab, 8 frame dash grab, 9 frame pivot grab)
      • (Average: 9 frame standing grab, 11 frame dash grab, 12 frame pivot grab)
      • (Slow: 12 frame standing grab, 14 frame dash grab, 15 frame pivot grab)
  • Approximate pummel damage: 2.5%
  • Approximate pummel speed: 0.5 seconds

-----------------------------------

Didn't cover this in my Samus rebalance post because she has a tether grab, but just like my idea of a standardized tether frame data, melee grabs would have one too. Three sets, which are picked depending on how effective or not effective I believe grabs should be for said character, but they would be standard across them, removing strange discrepancies between character grabs. Either you have an okay grab, a good grab, or a bad grab, and can calculate out of shield options and the like accordingly much easier, harkening back to my idea of universality among the characters giving a much easier time to balancing them. In this case, Dedede would have average. His pummel however I would give an overall DPS buff.

-----------------------------------

:GCZ::GCR:FThrow:

  • Sets the opponent down and does a golf style swing into them, knocking them forward
  • Has average endlag
  • Knockback angle is sideways at around 30 degrees
  • Base knockback is average
  • Approximate damage numbers:
    • First hit: 4.0%
    • Second hit: 6.0%
  • Approximate kill time: 155%

-----------------------------------

Nothing changes here really. Dedede's forward grab is still mostly for spacing, edgeguarding, and throwing people into a trap they may have dodged. Nothing special.

-----------------------------------

:GCZ::GCL:BThrow:

  • Throws the opponent back and swings them while they are in midair
  • Has average endlag
  • Knockback angle is upwards at 50 degrees
  • Base knockback is average
  • Approximate damage numbers:
    • First hit: 4.0%
    • Second hit: 7.5%
  • Approximate kill time: 135%

-----------------------------------

Same as forward throw, though since it will most likely not be used to throw people into traps again, it gains some kill power. It still has a lackluster knockback angle however.

-----------------------------------

:GCZ::GCU:UThrow:

  • New move: Throws the opponent upwards and swings mallet in a quick arc
  • Has above average endlag
  • Knockback angle is upwards at 75 degrees
  • Base knockback is below average to allow for mind game potential
  • Approximate damage numbers:
    • First hit: 4.0%
    • Second hit: 10.5%
  • Approximate kill time: 250%

-----------------------------------

This is a new move based mostly on the angle and the fact that his current UThrow couldn't really make sense visually while also throwing upwards at an angle. This move is mostly for aerial mind game potential since it has high endlag and low base knockback. I think the frame data most likely will still be in Dedede's favor by a couple of frames, but not enough to get a followup. Plus, due to Dedede's lackluster sharking potential, it isn't the end all be all of mind game tools at his disposal. However, it would be his most damaging throw by far to compensate.

-----------------------------------

:GCZ::GCD:DThrow:

  • Slams the opponent into the ground below Dedede
  • Has very low endlag
  • Knockback angle is upwards at 60 degrees
  • Base knockback is very low to allow for some combos
  • Approximate damage numbers: 4.6%
  • Approximate kill time: 360%

-----------------------------------

Designated combo throw. Nothing changed much except for the damage being slightly nerfed, but I don't want this to compete too much with the new UThrow, so it will allow for combos a tiny bit longer, after which UThrow will be optimal for airborne fighting due to the much higher damage output on that throw.

-----------------------------------

Finally done. :D

Hopefully you D3 mains and beyond like my wacky ideas for the King. Next I think I might deal with a certain puffball... I know they aren't a heavy character, but I have a few good ideas for them that I think will bring them back on top.
 
Last edited:

Luigifan18

Smash Master
Premium
Joined
Feb 19, 2015
Messages
3,127
Switch FC
SW-5577-0969-0868
#4
I love the idea of having the Jet Hammer replaced by a missile launcher. It's kinda hard to think of a use for Jet Hammer that's not redundant in line with Dedede's smashes, so a projectile replacement option is nice. I'm in favor of Dead Man's Volley being somehow worked into Warlock Punch for the same reason.
 
Top