Raziek's Robin Research Room & Repository (Moveset, Mechanics & Frame Data!)

[slimjim]

I am SOOO epicly sad that they nerfed the whole Nosferatu healing more at higher %s thing in the Wii U version. Now it's so much less useful it hurts. : (

Was doing some testing in training and smash modes and I think it just heals for flat percents now, same with damage. With mashout it's almost just bad now. *cries*

 

[Raziek]

It's...... Still really good lol.

I still routinely get like 25 life out of it.

37 life (-25, +12 enemy) is still huge

 

[slimjim]

It's...... Still really good lol.

I still routinely get like 25 life out of it.

37 life (-25, +12 enemy) is still huge

How are you getting 25 out of it, because even when i've tested it in normal smash mode with 300% stamina I still heal 15 max. If I'm missing something I'd love to know!

Yeah it's still good, I'm just sad haha. The fact that I can't get it to scale means it loses a lot of its utility as a command grab at high percents because instead of high risk exceptionally-high reward it's like high risk, moderate reward. Comboing into it is still superb though, since Arcfire/Arcthunder to Nosferatu still does around -12me +23them which is awesome.

 

[Raziek]

I.... think I figured out your problem.

It heals more the higher percentage you are RELATIVE TO YOUR OPPONENT.

So if you're both at 300 you only get 15%.

It still scales pretty hard:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z23EfOqfURM&t=15m

 

[Tattles]

I.... think I figured out your problem.

It heals more the higher percentage you are RELATIVE TO YOUR OPPONENT.

So if you're both at 300 you only get 15%.

It still scales pretty hard:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z23EfOqfURM&t=15m

I remember reading somewhere, although I don't know the legitimacy, that if Robin is at 999 and the opponent is at 0, Robin will heal over 300.

 

[Raziek]

I remember reading somewhere, although I don't know the legitimacy, that if Robin is at 999 and the opponent is at 0, Robin will heal over 300.

You read that in the OP of this topic, it was personally tested by me.

 

[Tattles]

You read that in the OP of this topic, it was personally tested by me.

Well. Oops? Lol.

Haven't read the OP in a while.

 

[slimjim]

Thanks Raz, I'm an idiot and forgot how my own character works. QQ need to get over this flu, it's wasting me away.

EDIT: I'm a super duper scrub.

 

[False Sense]

So, has Nosferatu changed at all in the Wii U version, or does it still function exactly as it has before?

 

[Hong]

So, has Nosferatu changed at all in the Wii U version, or does it still function exactly as it has before?

Nothing came up from the datamined patch notes that suggest anything changed about Robin that we already didn't know about going from 1.0.3 and 1.0.4 for the 3DS. The Wii U 1.0.1 apparently has a few inconsistencies from 3DS 1.0.4, but I was not aware of a difference in Nosferatu's healing amount.

 

[Aunt Jemima]

I decided to try Robin again on the Wii U version, and he's now my secondary. If I didn't main Kirby so extensively, I'd make him my main, though. He's so much fun, and so goood <3

Also, Levin U-Air juggles are incredibly fun.

Any tips for a newbie Robin? I've been checking out everything I can around here, but I'd love to get some general tips from other Robin mains.

 

[False Sense]

I decided to try Robin again on the Wii U version, and he's now my secondary. If I didn't main Kirby so extensively, I'd make him my main, though. He's so much fun, and so goood <3

Also, Levin U-Air juggles are incredibly fun.

Any tips for a newbie Robin? I've been checking out everything I can around here, but I'd love to get some general tips from other Robin mains.

-Use Arcfire. Seriously.
-Use Elthunder as your reliable projectile/spacing tool
-Use Arcthunder to set up combos
-Use Thoron to rack up damage, kill, snipe, etc.
-Practice landing Nosferatu
-Practice using Elwind to spike
-N-Air is a good tool; use it to keep people away and to gimp
-Avoid using D-Air
-Don't spam Dash Attack; only use it if it's safe
-Back-Throw does the most damage of all the throws; combo it with Arcthunder/fire for safe 20+ damage
-Back-Throw is a potential kill move at about 150%
-U-Air is king
-Try to stay below your opponents; Robin can't do much if he/she's falling onto people
-Pick up your used up items; they're deadly when thrown
-Fire-Jab can kill at decent percentages if used at a ledge
-Use Down-Smash to punish rolls (and to kill in general)

Is that helpful?

 

[Hong]

Well, I have some more grounded advice for you, @ Aunt Jemima .

One of the first traps you can fall into as a Robin player is relying too heavily on Arcfire and the Levin Sword. Only natural, given they are GOOD. But of course you can literally only use them so many times.

A good Robin player will HAVE to learn to survive with only the basics. Robin was such a hot character when the game came out, but we've had lots of dropouts. They can't handle rushdown fighters. They can't handle projectile spammers. They can't handle heavyweights. They claim they can't handle anything. In reality, it's because they are so one dimensional in their play.

So my advice is to learn how to fight "basic". I know I always advise people to master the butter knife, and I don't plan to stop today. Aside from the nair, Robin's jab, ftilt, and dtilt can be some of the few safe options you have. Racking up damage starts from the beginning, and even if you can't follow up on it, you are in a better position if you can control your enemy in close-quarters as much as possible, because your character has abysmal speed and an awful grab. In addition to the butter knife, you should try to learn your way around Thunder and Elthunder when dealing with fast characters.

The butter knife is good against rushdown fighters, but what about projectile spammers? To that, Elthunder, Arcthunder, and Arcfire are pivotal in allowing Robin to maintain any level of threat. Robin is slow, floaty, and easily molested by projectiles if you don't have anything to keep your enemy honest.

As you get more advanced, you should focus on psychological control. For example, you can force someone to approach by charging Thoron or wasting Nosferatu. You can also force people to jump from the ledge with Arcfire, setting them up for a meaty LS uair. Another good LS uair setup is the down throw. It's not a true combo at kill %, which is just fine; don't focus on getting the immediate follow up, and instead catch them after their air dodge.

 

[Hong]

So, @ RhyRhychan posted something that confirms some of my fears with Elwind:

For all the distance this recovery has, it has had its host of problems. I'm starting to think Elwind not grabbing the ledge backwards was not an intended design choice, and possibly a bug. Now this... Robin being edgehogged?

 

[RhyRhychan]

So, @ RhyRhychan posted something that confirms some of my fears with Elwind:

For all the distance this recovery has, it has had its host of problems. I'm starting to think Elwind not grabbing the ledge backwards was not an intended design choice, and possibly a bug. Now this... Robin being edgehogged?

I wish I knew how to embed videos in my posts lol. I had to make a link in my post. I'm tired... lol

I couldn't get it to happen again in the stream, and it hasn't ever happened to me before, on any character much less Robin. Robin is my main however, and I have never experienced this, even grabbing the ledge super fast I've never had a problem, it was so weird.

 

[Hong]

I wish I knew how to embed videos in my posts lol. I had to make a link in my post. I'm tired... lol

Hit the Media button when you go to post:

From there, you just paste the YouTube URL into the field that pops up.

I couldn't get it to happen again in the stream, and it hasn't ever happened to me before, on any character much less Robin. Robin is my main however, and I have never experienced this, even grabbing the ledge super fast I've never had a problem, it was so weird.

Yeah. I'm not going to jump the gun, yet. It could be stage, character, or action-specific (IE ledge attack versus a get up, roll, or jump). Just the same, it could be that this was always possible, and no one has tried it because hogging the ledge is not supposed to be possible. Could try to test this tonight.

Also, try not to double post in a short time frame from your last. To make additions to a post, you can use the Edit feature.

 

[RhyRhychan]

Hit the Media button when you go to post:

From there, you just paste the YouTube URL into the field that pops up.
Yeah. I'm not going to jump the gun, yet. It could be stage, character, or action-specific (IE ledge attack versus a get up, roll, or jump). Just the same, it could be that this was always possible, and no one has tried it because hogging the ledge is not supposed to be possible. Could try to test this tonight.

Also, try not to double post in a short time frame from your last. To make additions to a post, you can use the Edit feature.

Thank you for that! lol, and sorry about the double posting I'm a bit tired and should be asleep at 4:37 am lol. I shall learn from my mistake!

 

[Hong]

Thank you for that! lol, and sorry about the double posting I'm a bit tired and should be asleep at 4:37 am lol. I shall learn from my mistake!

No fret. Probably silly of me to be nagging people when research is at hand! Disregard my remark.

Anyway, thankfully despite my fears, I have not been able to recreate the edgehog with Shulk (getup, attack, roll, jump), Mario, or Robin holding the edge. Tried at both 0% and 100% just to be sure.

Whew.~

 

[Opana]

Robin's edgeguarding potential with a dropped spell book e g assisted stage spike

Since you can get out Nosfertau's book easiest, I wanted to mess around with it. You can move while the book is falling with an active hitbox, allowing some pretty interesting edge guards and combos with good planning. Can also be grabbed, thrown up, and caught limitlessly I believe.

 

[Kamikazu]

I haven't had the time to read through the whole thread yet so my apologies if it is known/ has been mentioned.
But I think Nosferatu can be sort of reversed (down+B>smash left or right).
It's less a reverse and more just a way of inputting the move first before turning the direction. it requires split second timing and has helped me quite a bit when i'm facing the opposite direction of an opponent or read a roll.

Very useful when incorporating it into play.

 

[Delzethin]

I haven't had the time to read through the whole thread yet so my apologies if it is known/ has been mentioned.
But I think Nosferatu can be sort of reversed (down+B>smash left or right).
It's less a reverse and more just a way of inputting the move first before turning the direction. it requires split second timing and has helped me quite a bit when i'm facing the opposite direction of an opponent or read a roll.

Very useful when incorporating it into play.

That's called a B-Reversal, and it really is useful. You can also do that with Elwind.

 

[Opana]

All about Robin's book, read the description!

I am interested in exploring the potential of his dropped items is all.

 

[slimjim]

I am interested in exploring the potential of his dropped items is all.

WARNING: Most situational thing ever.

Want to do something hilarious with your Nosferatu book? Sometime mid-match, have used 3 casts so that one more will break the book. Then sit about half a battlefield platform-length away from the edge of the stage, facing mid-stage. Then when they approach, use the 4th cast. If they shielded, you got'em. BUT if they rolled behind you, the dropped book will hit them just far enough off-stage to be spiked with a short-hopped LS-Dair on reaction. True combo. They lose that stock.

**I have to test this more with a grounded z-drop to see if that works too.

People love to shield when you have a fire/thunder book in hand, so I land a lot of run-up Nosferatus that way. The fear is real.

 

[Opana]

I actually do something similar, I use it it to lead into a bair kill while they're returning.

I am aware of it's situational usage, I just like utilizing every little bit of the characters.

 

[Kradzilla]

Does nosferatu have decent active frames?

 

[Mr. Johan]

So. This exists.

There's a small window of vulnerability during the beginning of the otherwise invulnerable first ledgesnap. For a lot of characters with one-dimensional recoveries, this proves to be problematic with characters who have reliably long-lasting hitboxes and spikes. Especially for Robin, who has no hitboxes to combat anyone on the way up, making him a big target. Ordinarily, someone could simply wait at the ledge and get ready to spike when we recover.

Fortunately, we're one of the few with such a recovery that can readily combat a prepared spiker, thanks to Arcfire and Arcthunder. Arcfire ignites on contact with anything regardless if it was shielded or not and keeps its hitboxes out, preventing anyone from intercepting Robin without committing to a jump, and by the time Arcfire's been jumped over, Robin should have recovered and escaped the vulnerable window. Similarly, Arcthunder goes into its multihit effects when shielded, leaving the opponent in shieldstun or having to roll to escape, at which point, again, we would have recovered; spotdodging I would think would let us escape the window as well.

It's going to be imperative to have an Arcthunder stored up whenever we're knocked offstage, in case our Arcfire tome is gone. Master your defenses when recovering. And it will also be important to know when and where we can shoot Arcfire so that it lands on the stage, on the corner, or on the ledge, depending on where the interceptor's at.

As far as Robin being the interceptor to ledge-seeking foes, well, we have a frame 8 spike. That we can use from the stage. Safe to say we should master the timing down. It would make the Lucario, Sheik, and Megaman matchups a hell of a lot easier if we do.

If for some crazy reason we have run out of Elwind, we have the alternate method of grabbing the ledge, dropping and double jumping when the foe is about to grab the ledge, and Levin Dair spike during the window while we take advantage of our ledge invincibility that carried over in order to prevent being hit by the UpB or other attacks. But since Dair is Frame 12, it should only really be used on those with startup on their UpBs. Falcon, Sheik, Zelda, Lucario, Villager, Falco, Duck Hunt, UpBs of that sort.

Did I get the general gist down? Or are there things I missed from that brief analysis?

 

[Meta651]

Is someone using Perfect Pivot with Robin? I find it useful for movement and mindgames son I'm learning and hoefully start applying it soon.

 

[The_Cardinal]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G3_vOtY5kCc

Some more tech for us at our disposal called jump cancel glide tossing (similar to glide tossing in brawl). I played around a bit with it using , , and and as expected, the slide distance is based on the initial dash animation of the character. In other words, the slide Robin gets is pretty pitiful, especially compared to speed Shulk. But hey, it may still have some applications and maybe I'm just doing it wrong with Robin (hopefully).

 

[One Tilt]

So, @ RhyRhychan posted something that confirms some of my fears with Elwind:

For all the distance this recovery has, it has had its host of problems. I'm starting to think Elwind not grabbing the ledge backwards was not an intended design choice, and possibly a bug. Now this... Robin being edgehogged?

There's a delay that disallows ledge regrabbing within a short span, similar to the delay on, well, grab regrabbing. This isn't specfic to Robin, it's just unsafe to go for a second ledge grab in general, between the regrab timer existing and the lack of refreshed invulnerability. I've spent the past month testing recoveries almost exclusively, and the ledge regrab timer cropped up a few times before I noticed its cause.

Fantastic thread, by the by. All kinds of nice info. I suppose the main information I've got is on Robin's recovery-- after testing with the full cast (including Miis, but not yet customs), Robin's currently sitting at about C, akin to Mario and Shulk, whilst slightly below Marth/Lucina (better range/speed) and a bit above Diddy (far more gimpable). Robin's pretty consistently hovered at the borderline of within the 'ten worst' or so, given the lack of gimp-protecting hitboxes, slow airspeed, and average range. Arcfire and the various thunders all cover our return to stage, of course, but our recovery is just a bit too slow and lacking in protection, as use of up B rather requires we go low if we need to cover more horizontal distance and such. 'Neither bad nor good' seems an apt description, but I've only got my own testing and word-of-mouth to go on, of course, so I'm certainly not thinking Robin's going to necessarily stay at their exact current placement... but... do I think Robin will ever be more than a bit below the curve in recovery? Not without a patch-- the more I compare it to the tools others have, the more Elwind is looking like our Fsmash: sure, it's there and it might get the job done, but every time I use it, I can only think of how much better the alternative would be (Dsmash, that is-- hard to break the old melee habit of 'never downsmash ever because Marth').

Oh well, at least we can make recovery just as much of a struggle for our foes as they might for us-- the only character I can think of who has more spikes is DK... maybe Luigi if you count bottom-of-cyclone shenanigans and his Dtaunt or some such nonsense, and that Nair has the most beautifully horizontal angle I've felt on an aerial yet-- it rather captures the pleasant feel of melee Marth's Fairs, what with its batting people offstage to their deaths. Not that there aren't those with more tools for gimping (Villager comes to mind), of course, but a so-so recovery certainly feels to be all the more tolerable when we can reduce the foe to even worse odds of ever seeing that ledge again.

Anywhos, excuse the spam for what's likely restating fairly minor information that we all probably have the gist of by now. When I see a really engaging thread like this I just feel compelled to offer whatever possible scraps of data I might have. ^^

 

[Lavani]

Not sure if it's been mentioned yet, but I didn't see it in the OP or after doing a quick search of the thread: Bronze Sword's knockback angles tend to be more horizontal than the Levin Sword's.

Some notable examples:

Attack | Levin Sword angle | Bronze Sword angle
Dsmash | 55° | 28°
Fair | 55° | 361°

To my memory, this holds true for all attacks aside from fsmash, bair, and uair.

 

[One Tilt]

Not sure if it's been mentioned yet, but I didn't see it in the OP or after doing a quick search of the thread: Bronze Sword's knockback angles tend to be more horizontal than the Levin Sword's.

Some notable examples:

Attack | Levin Sword angle | Bronze Sword angle
Dsmash | 55° | 28°
Fair | 55° | 361°

To my memory, this holds true for all attacks aside from fsmash, bair, and uair.

I don't recall what 0° refers to, directionally-- I'm assuming horizontal? Either way, the 361° has me curious, though... Some very interesting info, if it means broze Fair might be the better gimping tool... I'm curious as to whether some bronze Fair->Nair frame trap might be possible, but I'm not optimistic about getting back to the stage from such, so Elwind spikes or dry Nair hits might be flatly better tools...

 

[Lavani]

I don't recall what 0° refers to, directionally-- I'm assuming horizontal?

Correct.

Either way, the 361° has me curious

http://www.ssbwiki.com/Sakurai_angle

 

[One Tilt]

http://www.ssbwiki.com/Sakurai_angle

Huh, my lack of Brawl experience is surely showing, there. Thanks for the explanation. ^^

That said, while the lack of potential for bronze Fair gimps past... what %, actually? 60? Ah, tangent... But yes, the bronze Dsmash is what strikes me as most curious... even if only for the potential to gimp a LM or such with that horizontal knockback should he recover too low to reach with a Nair in time or some such thing, I suppose...? The consistent 55° angles on Levin hits is definitely peculiar now-- what Levin attacks break from that norm, I wonder? Or is that less pattern than coincidence of two data points? I imagine Uair/Usmash/Dair would be the most likely to have differing angles, at least, but I'm not certain how one would go about measuring them, short of perhaps a compass and screen captures...

 

[Lavani]

but I'm not certain how one would go about measuring them, short of perhaps a compass and screen captures...

We've had a data dump available for awhile now courtesy of Dantarion, and Thinkaman made a pastebin that is somewhat incomplete but would probably be preferred if raw data isn't your cup of tea.

Since each attack has entries for both swords: Levin Sword uses electric element (0x3) and Bronze Sword uses slash (0x2).

 

[Demonstormkill]

It would be nice to know exactly what the properties of an electric attack are. I didn't see that in the data dump.

 

[Lavani]

It would be nice to know exactly what the properties of an electric attack are. I didn't see that in the data dump.

• They multiply the freeze frames[hitlag] of an attack by 1.5x.[1][2]
• They do no damage to Yellow Pikmin, which will not flinch.

 

[Demonstormkill]

Thanks Lavani. According to this guide, hitstun is also slightly increased.

 

[One Tilt]

A very minor detail I found when fighting a Kirby earlier today: Side Smash can slip entirely over his head. Not that there's much of any reason to ever Fsmash over Dsmash anyways, mind you, but I thought it an odd little occasion nonetheless.

 

[NachoOfCheese]

Does the Dacus still work?

 

[The_Cardinal]

Does the Dacus still work?

Dacus as a whole has been patched out so unfortunately no.