Rayman Revolution

[ZoroCarlos]

It really should have been Rayman bro. When is our boy going to have his time? i'm getting impatient.

Pyra/Mythra getting in is a good thing honestly... think about it.
Back when Sephiroth came out I made a point that this pass might be kind of a "missed opportunities" pass. Here's the post:

Absolutely didn't expect Seph, love it. Now it's time to reach and turn this into Rayman speculation.

You know why this reveal makes sense in retrospect? The lack of FF7 anything. Same songs as Smash 4 and Cloud was the only Spirit. We played it off as Square Enix being greedy which... yeah? they waited for DLC to add more content instead. But why does this matter? Cause I think the same logic could work with Rayman.

We bring it up a lot, but this adds fuel to the fire, Rayman going from three trophies to just Ray himself is a very strange choice when it probably takes virtually no effort to add spirits. Could mean nothing but by using the Sephiroth Spirit Board logic, Rayman could probably be in the same boat: planned for DLC later, so they avoided adding too much content from his game to have a meaty content pack that doesn't reuse much like Min Min did.

I acknowledge it's reaching, since like, Min Min's board reused a bunch of Arms spirits, but still, that's the fun of speculating.

P.S. really sorry for the Geno fans

Arms and Xenoblade missed the bus. They had small bits of content before release, but Arms lacked any music, and Xenoblade, while receiving three XBC2 songs, didn't receive any new remixes or anything fancy besides that unlike almost every other series that isn't Sonic. Its representation felt incomplete, much like Final Fantasy, but then we got Sephiroth. Additionally, we had rumors from back then that Minecraft was getting content and look where we are now.

Rayman fills the agenda of a "missed opportunity" character like all the other ones, as well as my other prediction, Ryu Hayabusa, who also has insider rumors on his side like Steve did.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

As far as I see it, depending on how much control Nintendo has, if they say we get another pass after this one's done to have Sak continue taking care of unfinished business and let Rayman stand a chance, then so be it. Sak is currently not in a position to start developing a new game for a different IP anyways.

Also, after the NG trilogy got confirmed, I felt like we might see the rumored Mario + Rabbids 2 get announced during the period of June/digital E3 equivalent, since that would be the likeliest time for such a big announcement (as it was for Kingdom Battle).

 

[MrMcNuts]

Missed opportunities ey?..... I like the sound of that!

 

[Misterfan2000]

Yeah, I like that too!

Likewise, last night I expected anything, that's what this Fighter Pass 2 has taught me.

Outside of that, I really hope that, of the two remaining slots, one of them is our beloved Big Nose.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Think about the pass so far, we got

Pack 6- A series that missed out on the base game
Pack 7- If Vergeben is to be believed, Minecraft was being discussed for the base game
Pack 8- Final Fantasy 7 now feels like a proper inclusion with multiple songs and spirits
Pack 9- Xenoblade gets major content outside of the first game

If the "pattern" is followed a lot of the close calls could be revisited. Shantae and Rayman were included as Base Game spirits so there's definitely opportunity to work with there.

Although going by the "patterns" I could also say that Shield Knight and/or the Enchantress will be added as the Shovel Knight rep.

 

[Justin Little]

Here some more Rayman acknowledgement.

There was a problem fetching the tweet

To be honest, Rayman is the only Ubisoft franchise that I love. The Far Cry and Assassin's Creed games I played are ok, and I enjoyed ZombiU and Prince of Persia Sands of Time. Still, none of them match the love I have for Rayman. I do want to play Child of Light and Beyond Good and Evil though as they look pretty interesting.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

I got my interest peaked by Watchdog Legions myself. There's just something endlessly amusing about foiling a dictatorship and mafia organization with a construction worker.

 

[Justin Little]

I haven't played Watch Dogs yet. The reviews of the first game scared me off, but I hear 2 is a much better game. Should I skip the first game and start with 2?

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

I haven't played Watch Dogs yet. The reviews of the first game scared me off, but I hear 2 is a much better game. Should I skip the first game and start with 2?

Sure thing. It's not really necessary to go after the first anyways since both have different protags.

 

[MrMcNuts]

Here some more Rayman acknowledgement.

There was a problem fetching the tweet

To be honest, Rayman is the only Ubisoft franchise that I love. The Far Cry and Assassin's Creed games I played are ok, and I enjoyed ZombiU and Prince of Persia Sands of Time. Still, none of them match the love I have for Rayman. I do want to play Child of Light and Beyond Good and Evil though as they look pretty interesting.

We all think Ubisoft hates rayman but when I look into it, every other verified ubisoft twitter acknowledges him accept the main one, maybe it's just the guy in charge of the twitter account who doesn't care and he doesn't represent the company?

 

[Guybrush20X6]

I got my interest peaked by Watchdog Legions myself. There's just something endlessly amusing about foiling a dictatorship and mafia organization with a construction worker.

Isn't that the plot of the Lego Movie?

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

We all think Ubisoft hates rayman but when I look into it, every other verified ubisoft twitter acknowledges him accept the main one, maybe it's just the guy in charge of the twitter account who doesn't care and he doesn't represent the company?

So, the opposite of the and Crash Bandicoot accounts, then. Both of those are/were run by one person who clearly knew to have fun with those characters.

 

[ZoroCarlos]

You know, originally I was under the idea that if Rayman skipped #9 that it'd be hard for me to see him as one of the last 2. So I'm very glad that Pyra/Mythra (another one of my MWs) came in and reinforced that loose end theory for me, reigniting my hope once more. One thing for sure though, this has been one hell of an adventure waiting for the limbless lad. 10 will be our lucky number, fellas.

 

[MrMcNuts]

I'm sure we've brought it up before but y'all remember this quote from Michel Ancel in 2013?

And Rayfun's interview with the lead game designer from Rayman Legends?

Combine that with this whole "missed opportunities" theory, what we know from Steve that character negotiations can take a few years, maybe we got a true shot at this!

 

[Misterfan2000]

With all these clues, Ubisoft's silence, and the issue of updated trademarks, the truth is that I am hopeful to see Rayman in Ultimate.

 

[LunarDistortion]

Rayman in Smash would be one of the most satisfying reveals that we could possibly get. After being let down hard back in 2015 with Omni's "leak", it'd be sick to see him finally make it in.

 

[Justin Little]

Rayman would make for a great second to last character like Terry was for the last pass. Both are iconic legacy characters that don't get much appreciation in some circles within the Smash fandom.

Sure thing. It's not really necessary to go after the first anyways since both have different protags.

Gotcha, .

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

I'm about 50% sure that we may get a third extension after this (I can't really entirely buy whenever Sak says it's the last of anything, since something tends to make him change his mind), but one thing for sure is that we'll get at least one particularly hardcore demand before the second pass finishes.

Rayman is among those who would fit that.

 

[JamesDNaux]

No one can say "they would have saved Ubisoft costumes for Rayman" anymore.

Just hit them back with "they would have saved the Rex costume for Mythra."

Sure feels good.

Min Min proved spirits were viable and was a series lacking a character.

Steve was in negotiations for five years, Rayman was in negotiations before even him.

Sephiroth hails from another series that was sorely lacking in content.

Mythra doubles down on spirits, kills that annoying Mii jab, and is yet again another game that was lacking in content.


I like this "tying up loose ends" idea, Rayman fits really well, being a character that's been pushed by Ubisoft for a long time, who had three trophies before but now just has one spirit, so he's lacking in content. And most importantly of course, a fighter that has people saying "why on earth wasn't he in base game?"

 

[ZoroCarlos]

No one can say "they would have saved Ubisoft costumes for Rayman" anymore.

Just hit them back with "they would have saved the Rex costume for Mythra."

Sure feels good.

"uhhhhh AcTuAlLy, that's different becuz uhm... Rex was available from the start and uhhh..."

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

"uhhhhh AcTuAlLy, that's different becuz uhm... Rex was available from the start and uhhh..."

The funny part is that said costume wasn't even remotely available or known to exist until after FP1 was confirmed, when most folks were in "the game's big enough so it can't get DLC" mode.

 

[MrMcNuts]

"uhhhhh AcTuAlLy, that's different becuz uhm... Rex was available from the start and uhhh..."

Brings me back to how the regulars over in newcomer speculation would say the ubi miis kills Rayman but namco miis don't affect Llyod cause *and then they type a giant logicless paragraph"

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Brings me back to how the regulars over in newcomer speculation would say the ubi miis kills Rayman but namco miis don't affect Llyod cause *and then they type a giant logicless paragraph"

I keep warning warning people about that, but I get ignored. Them and the MH fans (if it's not the Miis, it'll be Rise getting a spirit event).

Spoiler

 

[JustASora/CrashSupporter]

Okay, so I know this probably doesn't have that much to do with Rayman getting in, but, can we all agree that this would be pretty neat?

 

[ZoroCarlos]

Brings me back to how the regulars over in newcomer speculation would say the ubi miis kills Rayman but namco miis don't affect Llyod cause *and then they type a giant logicless paragraph"

I've seen it argued before. "Ohhh but those are returning costumes whereas the Ubisoft ones are brand new so it's not the same thing."

Yeah despite the fact that some of the returning costumes have brand new models to them and crap... too much bias at play here smfh.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

I've seen it argued before. "Ohhh but those are returning costumes whereas the Ubisoft ones are brand new so it's not the same thing."

Yeah despite the fact that some of the returning costumes have brand new models to them and crap... too much bias at play here smfh.

Not to mention the fact that Bamco isn't in a hurry to get any of their characters beyond , it's not like there's a half-dozen or so other companies to please or anything.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5LIC8r9zf0U (linked due to naughty language).

Okay, so I know this probably doesn't have that much to do with Rayman getting in, but, can we all agree that this would be pretty neat?

At least the GBA game we got what neat. And I still wish we actually got to fight them in Legends.

 

[mariofan48]

I'm sure we've brought it up before but y'all remember this quote from Michel Ancel in 2013?
View attachment 304155

And Rayfun's interview with the lead game designer from Rayman Legends?
View attachment 304156
View attachment 304157

Combine that with this whole "missed opportunities" theory, what we know from Steve that character negotiations can take a few years, maybe we got a true shot at this!

****, please. I'm hoping so hard!!!!

 

[JustASora/CrashSupporter]

With all these clues, Ubisoft's silence, and the issue of updated trademarks, the truth is that I am hopeful to see Rayman in Ultimate.

Yeah, it's been quite some time since we knew anything new about those Rayman trademarks.

 

[Eldrake]

Brings me back to how the regulars over in newcomer speculation would say the ubi miis kills Rayman but namco miis don't affect Llyod cause *and then they type a giant logicless paragraph"

People explaining why FP1 Ubisoft Miis disconfirm Rayman for FP2 while FP2 Namco Miis don't disconfirm Lloyd for FP2 be like

 

[mariofan48]

People explaining why FP1 Ubisoft Miis disconfirm Rayman for FP2 while FP2 Namco Miis don't disconfirm Lloyd for FP2 be like
View attachment 304368

Actually, that's an interesting idea...

We should try to do like, some sort of social experiment or something. Go around asking for another Namco character in Smash and see if people say the same thing they say for Ubisoft?

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

People explaining why FP1 Ubisoft Miis disconfirm Rayman for FP2 while FP2 Namco Miis don't disconfirm Lloyd for FP2 be like
View attachment 304368

And on top of that, Rex fans are still in denial about his Mii costume being a factor in why he got skipped over in favor of P&M.

Spoiler

I mean, DLC Mii costumes are announced with much fanfare, while base game spirits were shown so casually like they're the most normal thing in existence. Guess which would be more surprising to promote and isn't obviously physically present in the battle.

 

[ZoroCarlos]

Actually, that's an interesting idea...

We should try to do like, some sort of social experiment or something. Go around asking for another Namco character in Smash and see if people say the same thing they say for Ubisoft?

Meh I think it's too late now for something like that. At this moment people are fully expecting Lloyd to die in Pyra's presentation so current opinions on Namco really aren't that positive around.

The part I really want to know though: When are Mii costumes actually decided? Were they all laid out before the fighter choices were concluded or came along mid development?

I'll say again, I think it's fair for to say that FP2 was decided a short time before Ultimate even came out. We just have enough evidence in that argument's favor:

• Final Fantasy purposely left without ANY new content. Likely decided alongside Hero.
• Arms purposefully had none of its no-brainer music included.
• Steve in talks for 5 years, likely negotiated alongside Banjo at E3 2018.
• Xenoblade in a similar spot to Arms.

So at the very least, every returning Mii costume from Smash 4 is already decided to be coming out since before base game. But what about the rest? Sans, Cuphead, Altair, Rabbids, Vault Boy?

At the very least I could argue that they would have gotten the rights to Altair and Rabbids before base game, just nab them alongside the rights to the Ubisoft spirits in the game. And Vault Boy you could make a case was also negotiated prior because Bethesda mentioned that they spoke with Nintendo about Smash on like... August 2018 I think? So that's another link there. Just leaves Sans and Cuphead, but I think I made my case strong enough already.

If most of the mii costumes were decided before base game then why do they matter at all for completely different characters in the long run? I like the Rex example because it tells us that he added him as DLC at that time well aware of what'd he'd do in the future. He really just didn't care that Pyra couldn't be playable because Rex was in already.

So what does this say about Altair and Rabbids? Besides that they don't matter for Rayman's chances (They help him) you could argue that Sakurai just had nothing interesting to put in Byleth's mii wave, so he had to fill those gaps however he could and Ubisoft said "Here, this should help. We have Rayman and miis of his buddies coming later but we obviously don't want to use those rn so just use the rest of our catalog." (Note: Byleth of all characters being the end of FP1 could also be evidence that they never planned to end there either lmao)

I rambled too much already. In conclusion, series miis don't deconfirm, spirits don't deconfirm, and the Loose End Theory is looking mighty strong.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

As an addendum, there's still quite a few IPs besides Rayman's whose representation was handled oddly in the base game, as well as a few rumors about some unrepresented IPs possibly being long-term plans like Steve was, so whether or not we get a third extension announced by the end of the year, we can say for sure that the focus going forward from here will be on filling out those loose ends. Except possibly Porky, because as far as everyone's concerned, Mother is properly completed as a series and him not in is a plumb oversight.

In short, if somehow we get a third pass and Rayman isn't in FP2 by then, I wouldn't worry about it.

 

[TAnimal]

Meh I think it's too late now for something like that. At this moment people are fully expecting Lloyd to die in Pyra's presentation so current opinions on Namco really aren't that positive around.

The part I really want to know though: When are Mii costumes actually decided? Were they all laid out before the fighter choices were concluded or came along mid development?

I'll say again, I think it's fair for to say that FP2 was decided a short time before Ultimate even came out. We just have enough evidence in that argument's favor:

• Final Fantasy purposely left without ANY new content. Likely decided alongside Hero.
• Arms purposefully had none of its no-brainer music included.
• Steve in talks for 5 years, likely negotiated alongside Banjo at E3 2018.
• Xenoblade in a similar spot to Arms.

So at the very least, every returning Mii costume from Smash 4 is already decided to be coming out since before base game. But what about the rest? Sans, Cuphead, Altair, Rabbids, Vault Boy?

At the very least I could argue that they would have gotten the rights to Altair and Rabbids before base game, just nab them alongside the rights to the Ubisoft spirits in the game. And Vault Boy you could make a case was also negotiated prior because Bethesda mentioned that they spoke with Nintendo about Smash on like... August 2018 I think? So that's another link there. Just leaves Sans and Cuphead, but I think I made my case strong enough already.

If most of the mii costumes were decided before base game then why do they matter at all for completely different characters in the long run? I like the Rex example because it tells us that he added him as DLC at that time well aware of what'd he'd do in the future. He really just didn't care that Pyra couldn't be playable because Rex was in already.

So what does this say about Altair and Rabbids? Besides that they don't matter for Rayman's chances (They help him) you could argue that Sakurai just had nothing interesting to put in Byleth's mii wave, so he had to fill those gaps however he could and Ubisoft said "Here, this should help. We have Rayman and miis of his buddies coming later but we obviously don't want to use those rn so just use the rest of our catalog." (Note: Byleth of all characters being the end of FP1 could also be evidence that they never planned to end there either lmao)

I rambled too much already. In conclusion, series miis don't deconfirm, spirits don't deconfirm, and the Loose End Theory is looking mighty strong.

Nick Stuart (@NickAnimal66) Tweeted:
R RaymanForSmash @GenosPapa
MASSIVE THEORY: These Choices behind the scenes by Nintendo and Sakurai as seen right here are All based on the Influence and Collaboration’s that 6-Companies have made a 7-10 Year Plans that stem from Brawl to Smash 4 to Pre-Ultimate Production… https://t.co/OTUYRNvty3

https://twitter.com/NickAnimal66/status/1332880920181878784?s=20

This actually is the MOST realistic Explanation of what Nintendo has been planning for Ultimate these last 10 year’s

• Volumes 1 and 2 were always meant to happen as Nintendo needed to fulfill Contractual Developments for the Game.
• Ubisoft Mii’s were set in stone along with a Fighter Pack for Ubisoft’s Request since 2016 when Ultimate was in development post-Smash 4 end cycle.
• All of these DLC Packs are compartmentalized in each Developers specific day and date for when Nintendo wants to release their Content in the Game. Here’s an illustration of how this works:

With every Cycle comes different planning stages as companies like Microsoft, Ubisoft, Square Enix, Monolithsoft, Koei-Tecmo are All awaiting for their content to be Released in seperate solo productions either in Base Game, DLC Volume 1 and/or DLC Volume 2, Advertised (ex. Rayman Legends Definitive Edition for Nintendo Switch), and Promoting the Company Brand which you see on the Super Smash Bros Ultimate Collaboration Credits.

 

[ZoroCarlos]

Nick Stuart (@NickAnimal66) Tweeted:
R RaymanForSmash @GenosPapa
MASSIVE THEORY: These Choices behind the scenes by Nintendo and Sakurai as seen right here are All based on the Influence and Collaboration’s that 6-Companies have made a 7-10 Year Plans that stem from Brawl to Smash 4 to Pre-Ultimate Production… https://t.co/OTUYRNvty3

https://twitter.com/NickAnimal66/status/1332880920181878784?s=20

This actually is the MOST realistic Explanation of what Nintendo has been planning for Ultimate these last 10 year’s

• Volumes 1 and 2 were always meant to happen as Nintendo needed to fulfill Contractual Developments for the Game.
• Ubisoft Mii’s were set in stone along with a Fighter Pack for Ubisoft’s Request since 2016 when Ultimate was in development post-Smash 4 end cycle.
• All of these DLC Packs are compartmentalized in each Developers specific day and date for when Nintendo wants to release their Content in the Game. Here’s an illustration of how this works:

View attachment 304407
View attachment 304408
View attachment 304406


With every Cycle comes different planning stages as companies like Microsoft, Ubisoft, Square Enix, Monolithsoft, Koei-Tecmo are All awaiting for their content to be Released in seperate solo productions either in Base Game, DLC Volume 1 and/or DLC Volume 2, Advertised (ex. Rayman Legends Definitive Edition for Nintendo Switch), and Promoting the Company Brand which you see on the Super Smash Bros Ultimate Collaboration Credits.

Should update and add the Age of Calamity spirit event to the Hayabusa chart, I feel! As I think it hints at him even further that negotiations with Koei Tecmo are still happening.

 

[mariofan48]

Normally I don't like to point out stupid arguments that people make but I felt like I had to at least show this one off, it's absolutely ridiculous.

What even makes it more absurd is that the OP's post is literally calling out this kinda stuff.

Spoiler

 

[JustASora/CrashSupporter]

Nick Stuart (@NickAnimal66) Tweeted:
R RaymanForSmash @GenosPapa
MASSIVE THEORY: These Choices behind the scenes by Nintendo and Sakurai as seen right here are All based on the Influence and Collaboration’s that 6-Companies have made a 7-10 Year Plans that stem from Brawl to Smash 4 to Pre-Ultimate Production… https://t.co/OTUYRNvty3

https://twitter.com/NickAnimal66/status/1332880920181878784?s=20

This actually is the MOST realistic Explanation of what Nintendo has been planning for Ultimate these last 10 year’s

• Volumes 1 and 2 were always meant to happen as Nintendo needed to fulfill Contractual Developments for the Game.
• Ubisoft Mii’s were set in stone along with a Fighter Pack for Ubisoft’s Request since 2016 when Ultimate was in development post-Smash 4 end cycle.
• All of these DLC Packs are compartmentalized in each Developers specific day and date for when Nintendo wants to release their Content in the Game. Here’s an illustration of how this works:

View attachment 304407
View attachment 304408
View attachment 304406


With every Cycle comes different planning stages as companies like Microsoft, Ubisoft, Square Enix, Monolithsoft, Koei-Tecmo are All awaiting for their content to be Released in seperate solo productions either in Base Game, DLC Volume 1 and/or DLC Volume 2, Advertised (ex. Rayman Legends Definitive Edition for Nintendo Switch), and Promoting the Company Brand which you see on the Super Smash Bros Ultimate Collaboration Credits.

 

[Noipoi]

Nick Stuart (@NickAnimal66) Tweeted:
R RaymanForSmash @GenosPapa
MASSIVE THEORY: These Choices behind the scenes by Nintendo and Sakurai as seen right here are All based on the Influence and Collaboration’s that 6-Companies have made a 7-10 Year Plans that stem from Brawl to Smash 4 to Pre-Ultimate Production… https://t.co/OTUYRNvty3

https://twitter.com/NickAnimal66/status/1332880920181878784?s=20

This actually is the MOST realistic Explanation of what Nintendo has been planning for Ultimate these last 10 year’s

• Volumes 1 and 2 were always meant to happen as Nintendo needed to fulfill Contractual Developments for the Game.
• Ubisoft Mii’s were set in stone along with a Fighter Pack for Ubisoft’s Request since 2016 when Ultimate was in development post-Smash 4 end cycle.
• All of these DLC Packs are compartmentalized in each Developers specific day and date for when Nintendo wants to release their Content in the Game. Here’s an illustration of how this works:

View attachment 304407
View attachment 304408
View attachment 304406


With every Cycle comes different planning stages as companies like Microsoft, Ubisoft, Square Enix, Monolithsoft, Koei-Tecmo are All awaiting for their content to be Released in seperate solo productions either in Base Game, DLC Volume 1 and/or DLC Volume 2, Advertised (ex. Rayman Legends Definitive Edition for Nintendo Switch), and Promoting the Company Brand which you see on the Super Smash Bros Ultimate Collaboration Credits.

Now this is smash speculation!

 

[mariofan48]

Oh yeah also, Min Min's hitboxes and hurtboxes are literally detached from her body right? That fact completely destroys this guys argument LMAO

 

[Louie G.]

I wanna pop in and mention that if we're discussing companies with content already present in Smash that can be expanded upon, Arc System Works is worth a nod. It doesn't have quite the same strong connection with Nintendo that Koei Tecmo or Ubisoft has, but that sporadic River City spirit event with not even a Mii Costume to speak of (and plenty of viable options) is a bit of an eyebrow-raiser. They at least have a very solid presence on Switch with a number of classic / legacy titles on the eshop to boot (not unlike SNK).

Also, it's hard for me to wholeheartedly agree that Koei Tecmo has legitimate content in Smash 4 onward. I think Hayabusa continues to have a great chance, but given how Fatal Frame belongs at least partially to Nintendo they may be able to use the characters and property freely. Kinda odd that everything Koei Tecmo has in Smash seems to have an asterisk attached - so if anything the strongest point in Hayabusa's favor isn't the content that can be tied to KT but rather the complete absence of pureblooded KT content, at least IMO.

Also seems a bit disingenuous to use Monolith Soft, since Xenoblade is still owned by Nintendo, but I digress.

As for Rayman, this is actually one of the strongest points I've seen in his favor. I'm pleasantly surprised, since the person who posted it has proven themselves to be a bit off their rocker in other threads on GameFAQS... but credit where it's due. If Rayman and Hayabusa are the final two I'd be quite satisfied.