Rayman: Hero of the Glade of Dreams - The Great Escape

[JamesDNaux]

Better? I don't think there's much else I can do to it.

 

[Rayman4Smash]

I think I've got it this time, looks a lot better than the previous one.

What do you guys think?

Looks better than last time. The O is a nice touch there. Could be moved a bit to the right, though.

BTW, what do you think Ubisoft's plans for Rayman will be for next year since it'll be his 20th? Another thing is that Sakurai ended his POTD for Smash Bros on Miiverse last week, so we'll probably won't find out why he added the Rayman trophies in the first place any time soon.

 

[Rayman4Smash]

I think I've got it this time, looks a lot better than the previous one.

What do you guys think?

Looks better than last time. The O is a nice touch there. Could be moved a bit to the right, though.

BTW, what do you think Ubisoft's plans for Rayman will be for next year since it'll be his 20th? Another thing is that Sakurai ended his POTD for Smash Bros on Miiverse last week, so we'll probably won't find out why he added the Rayman trophies in the first place any time soon.

 

[JamesDNaux]

Looks better than last time. The O is a nice touch there. Could be moved a bit to the right, though.

Right above you:

BTW, what do you think Ubisoft's plans for Rayman will be for next year since it'll be his 20th? Another thing is that Sakurai ended his POTD for Smash Bros on Miiverse last week, so we'll probably won't find out why he added the Rayman trophies in the first place any time soon.

I'm hoping they even do anything, though I know that Ancel will make note of it at least. Maybe he'll delve more into that prototype of a 3D Rayman game that they made. I can only hope that Rayman ends up playable as well, that would be an amazing 20th.

Also, please refrain from double posting, it's against the rules. Second time I've had to go over that in this thread...

 

[Rayman4Smash]

Right above you:


I'm hoping they even do anything, though I know that Ancel will make note of it at least. Maybe he'll delve more into that prototype of a 3D Rayman game that they made. I can only hope that Rayman ends up playable as well, that would be an amazing 20th.

Also, please refrain from double posting, it's against the rules. Second time I've had to go over that in this thread...

Sorry about that. My computer has been giving me some problems and it sometimes ends up posting twice of what I said.

EDIT: Any way to delete these extra posts?

 

[WindozeNT]

Is Rayman the only non-playable 3rd party that has trophies (anything Namco defaults to Pac-Man's universe)?

 

[SegaNintendoUbisoft]

Is Rayman the only non-playable 3rd party that has trophies (anything Namco defaults to Pac-Man's universe)?

Besides Commander Video, nope.

 

[Golden Sun]

Sorry about that. My computer has been giving me some problems and it sometimes ends up posting twice of what I said.

EDIT: Any way to delete these extra posts?

I was the other one James was talking about, good god I still cant believe there is no deleting post option besides going through all of that reporting a moderator and deleteing it.

BTW
someone rate my signature

 

[SegaNintendoUbisoft]

I was the other one James was talking about, good god I still cant believe there is no deleting post option besides going through all of that reporting a moderator and deleteing it.

BTW
someone rate my signature

I like it!
BTW, I was coming up with some Boxing Ring aliases for Rayman, I tried to actually make it myself, but I fail at Photoshop. Anyway, here are the two aliases I came up with.

Limbless Wonder

Man
Vegetable
Thingamajig

 

[Golden Sun]

I like it!
BTW, I was coming up with some Boxing Ring aliases for Rayman, I tried to actually make it myself, but I fail at Photoshop. Anyway, here are the two aliases I came up with.

Limbless Wonder
Man
Vegetable
Thingamajig

I remember that trailer from Rayman Origins, if any case, I'd actually go with Thingamajig, seriously.

Art programs are too complicated.

 

[WindozeNT]

A rather failed attempt at a Raymii:

 

[winged hero]

i support rayman, he should be in the game.He has been on nintendo before rayman 2 on the n64 and was going to be on snes, if what i heard was right?

 

[Deleted member]

i support rayman, he should be in the game.He has been on nintendo before rayman 2 on the n64 and was going to be on snes, if what i heard was right?

That is true; there was a project for Rayman to be on the SNES, which would have co-op, but it never got off the ground. The Great Escape was Rayman's first true foray into a Ninendo console.

Anyhow, I personally find it funny that Legends, in a way, trained Rayman on dealing with the end of Classic Mode in Super Smash Bros., what with Hades' Hand being in the theme of Master Core and the end credits allowing Rayman to smash them to bits if he wants to.

Like I said; if we are to get another third-party fighter, the most likely candidate would be Rayman.

 

[LIQUID12A]

It's been too long. Throw me on that support list.

 

[Golden Sun]

If Rayman ever gets in SSB, they should as well just add his theme song but not 8-bit making it like a "exclusive" to only SSB.

 

[Rayman4Smash]

That is true; there was a project for Rayman to be on the SNES, which would have co-op, but it never got off the ground. The Great Escape was Rayman's first true foray into a Ninendo console.

Anyhow, I personally find it funny that Legends, in a way, trained Rayman on dealing with the end of Classic Mode in Super Smash Bros., what with Hades' Hand being in the theme of Master Core and the end credits allowing Rayman to smash them to bits if he wants to.

Like I said; if we are to get another third-party fighter, the most likely candidate would be Rayman.

Funny thing, cause that's pretty much the same comparison I made a couple of days ago (with the Hades' Hand and Master Core thing).

Speaking of which, here's something I made long before Master Core became official

 

[Golden Sun]

Im still exploring Smashboards, still pretty new to this forum website, I only seen the easy stuff, but I seen someone make a group, a own-forum for a support on there DLC thread im confused about this really.

 

[LIQUID12A]

Funny thing, cause that's pretty much the same comparison I made a couple of days ago (with the Hades' Hand and Master Core thing).

Speaking of which, here's something I made long before Master Core became official

Legends teased Master Core A FULL YEAR ago O_O

 

[Rayman4Smash]

Legends teased Master Core A FULL YEAR ago O_O

Pretty much. Even before Rayman was a trophy.

 

[SmashChu]

Rayman is by far on the level of Mega Man, if not higher.

Though not Nintendo, PS All Stars had third party DLC, so such a thing is not impossible. Rayman appearing with not one, but three trophies must count for something, and just the presence of the trophies means that they have the licensing done on him.

Now you're just being delusional. Rayman isn't even in the same ball park. People were asking for Mega Man in the last game and were disappointed when he wasn't in. Yes, it was a common belief that the three third party characters were Sonic, Snake and Megaman. Rayman is a new thought and he's never been a popular one.

The problem is that when have we gone to far with third party characters. Take Soul Caliber. It use to be interesting when the game had Link. Now, Soul Caliber's guest characters are basically ignored or forgotten. Did you know Kratos was in Soul Caliber. Or the main character of Assassin's Creed? I'm sure most gamers will say "no," unless they specifically follow the series. But people know Link, Vader and Yoda are in SC. Mega Man, Sonic and Pac-Man are very iconic and the former two have a long history with Nintendo. But Rayman doesn't. He's not that iconic, doesn't have that big of a relationship to Nintendo and he isn't that popular. More people want Inkling and Ridley over Rayman. And that's the issue. Third party characters may have lost their appeal and will likely mean nothing going forward. The interest has waned since Snake and it's Diminishing Marginal Utility at work. Each addition will have less of a benefit, and a character like Rayman would have little interest. We've gotten the most iconic characters that aren't owned by Nintendo in the game, so do we really need to keep adding them.

In the end, I feel like fans are forgetting the original purpose of the game.

*giggle* Didn't you say the same thing about Mega Man before he was confirmed? Yes, you did... and you said the same thing about Pac-Man before he was confirmed. You even said the same thing about the actual Nintendo characters like the Miis and the Duck Hunt Dog before they were confirmed.

We call this tu quoque. Now stop being 12.

 

[Kalimdori]

Now you're just being delusional. Rayman isn't even in the same ball park. People were asking for Mega Man in the last game and were disappointed when he wasn't in. Yes, it was a common belief that the three third party characters were Sonic, Snake and Megaman. Rayman is a new thought and he's never been a popular one.

The problem is that when have we gone to far with third party characters. Take Soul Caliber. It use to be interesting when the game had Link. Now, Soul Caliber's guest characters are basically ignored or forgotten. Did you know Kratos was in Soul Caliber. Or the main character of Assassin's Creed? I'm sure most gamers will say "no," unless they specifically follow the series. But people know Link, Vader and Yoda are in SC. Mega Man, Sonic and Pac-Man are very iconic and the former two have a long history with Nintendo. But Rayman doesn't. He's not that iconic, doesn't have that big of a relationship to Nintendo and he isn't that popular. More people want Inkling and Ridley over Rayman. And that's the issue. Third party characters may have lost their appeal and will likely mean nothing going forward. The interest has waned since Snake and it's Diminishing Marginal Utility at work. Each addition will have less of a benefit, and a character like Rayman would have little interest. We've gotten the most iconic characters that aren't owned by Nintendo in the game, so do we really need to keep adding them.

In the end, I feel like fans are forgetting the original purpose of the game.


We call this tu quoque. Now stop being 12.

This seems to be more of a personal argument then a factual one, as most of what you are saying is based off of assumptions and opinions.

Yes Rayman isn't in the same ballpark as Sonic and Megaman, but he's definitely popular. Been around for nearly 2 decades, (Hardly a "new thought") his games are pretty popular and very well received. Not to mention he would represent a third party company that dwarfs the other represented 3rd parties in Smash.

I'd comment on "Going to far with third party characters", "Likely mean nothing going forward", etc. but that is entirely opinion based and really has no bearing on Rayman's chances, unless you have some sort of official source to back it up.

Also, I'll give you Ridley but claiming Inkling is more wanted then Rayman is hilarious.

 

[Rayman4Smash]

This seems to be more of a personal argument then a factual one, as most of what you are saying is based off of assumptions and opinions.

Yes Rayman isn't in the same ballpark as Sonic and Megaman, but he's definitely popular. Been around for nearly 2 decades, (Hardly a "new thought") his games are pretty popular and very well received. Not to mention he would represent a third party company that dwarfs the other represented 3rd parties in Smash.

I'd comment on "Going to far with third party characters", "Likely mean nothing going forward", etc. but that is entirely opinion based and really has no bearing on Rayman's chances, unless you have some sort of official source to back it up.

Also, I'll give you Ridley but claiming Inkling is more wanted then Rayman is hilarious.

Now that's what I call true logic there.

 

[JamesDNaux]

Now you're just being delusional. Rayman isn't even in the same ball park. People were asking for Mega Man in the last game and were disappointed when he wasn't in. Yes, it was a common belief that the three third party characters were Sonic, Snake and Megaman. Rayman is a new thought and he's never been a popular one.

I didn't say by amount of requests or popularity, now did I? I said Rayman was as big as Mega Man, as in, the character and franchise. Mega Man has been all but forgotten by his company, while Rayman is the mascot of his, and still gets games regularly. And going by sales, Mega Man is just above Rayman, but that's not even counting any of the games from the Raving Rabbids series, which would likely push Rayman far above Mega Man. UbiSoft as a company is bigger than Capcom as well.

Now, Mega Man surely beat out Rayman in Smash requests, that's obvious. But that was never the point in the first place. What you're spouting about "too many third parties" is nothing but personal opinion leaning towards Nintendo purist form.

 

[Rayman4Smash]

I didn't say by amount of requests or popularity, now did I? I said Rayman was as big as Mega Man, as in, the character and franchise. Mega Man has been all but forgotten by his company, while Rayman is the mascot of his, and still gets games regularly. And going by sales, Mega Man is just above Rayman, but that's not even counting any of the games from the Raving Rabbids series, which would likely push Rayman far above Mega Man. UbiSoft as a company is bigger than Capcom as well.

Now, Mega Man surely beat out Rayman in Smash requests, that's obvious. But that was never the point in the first place. What you're spouting about "too many third parties" is nothing but personal opinion leaning towards Nintendo purist form.

And I thought Miiverse was bad enough in comparison. Couldn't say so better myself.

 

[Golden Sun]

And I thought Miiverse was bad enough in comparison. Couldn't say so better myself.

I second that.

 

[SmashChu]

I didn't say by amount of requests or popularity, now did I? I said Rayman was as big as Mega Man, as in, the character and franchise. Mega Man has been all but forgotten by his company, while Rayman is the mascot of his, and still gets games regularly. And going by sales, Mega Man is just above Rayman, but that's not even counting any of the games from the Raving Rabbids series, which would likely push Rayman far above Mega Man. UbiSoft as a company is bigger than Capcom as well.

Now, Mega Man surely beat out Rayman in Smash requests, that's obvious. But that was never the point in the first place. What you're spouting about "too many third parties" is nothing but personal opinion leaning towards Nintendo purist form.

No, but you did say "Rayman is by far on the level of Mega Man, if not higher.," so unless you want to tell me what you were talking about, I assume you meant something like popularity, legacy, sales. None of which rayman has over Megaman.

Most of what you said is opinion, not fact. Ubisoft does not use Rayman as their mascot (Wikipedia doesn't even list him as such). Megaman has sold far more copies. The Mega Man series has 28 million according the VGChartz as opposed to Raymans's 18 or so. Mind you, Mega Man's sales came from a cold and ungoblized Market. The only thing that is true is Ubisoft is larger (~1.6 billion to 900 million), but you likely guessed on that.

This seems to be more of a personal argument then a factual one, as most of what you are saying is based off of assumptions and opinions.

Yes Rayman isn't in the same ballpark as Sonic and Megaman, but he's definitely popular. Been around for nearly 2 decades, (Hardly a "new thought") his games are pretty popular and very well received. Not to mention he would represent a third party company that dwarfs the other represented 3rd parties in Smash.

I'd comment on "Going to far with third party characters", "Likely mean nothing going forward", etc. but that is entirely opinion based and really has no bearing on Rayman's chances, unless you have some sort of official source to back it up.

Also, I'll give you Ridley but claiming Inkling is more wanted then Rayman is hilarious.

Yeah, it's called the Law of Diminishing Marginal Utility. The responses from each character have been weaker and weaker. Do you really expect people to be as excited for Rayman as they were the other characters. Economic theory says no.

No sure why we need to "represent" third party companies in a Nintendo fighting game. Representation was a dumb argument during Brawl.

 

[Golden Sun]

No, but you did say "Rayman is by far on the level of Mega Man, if not higher.," so unless you want to tell me what you were talking about, I assume you meant something like popularity, legacy, sales. None of which rayman has over Megaman.

Most of what you said is opinion, not fact. Ubisoft does not use Rayman as their mascot (Wikipedia doesn't even list him as such). Megaman has sold far more copies. The Mega Man series has 28 million according the VGChartz as opposed to Raymans's 18 or so. Mind you, Mega Man's sales came from a cold and ungoblized Market. The only thing that is true is Ubisoft is larger (~1.6 billion to 900 million), but you likely guessed on that.

Yeah, it's called the Law of Diminishing Marginal Utility. The responses from each character have been weaker and weaker. Do you really expect people to be as excited for Rayman as they were the other characters. Economic theory says no.

No sure why we need to "represent" third party companies in a Nintendo fighting game. Representation was a dumb argument during Brawl.

Anything can happen really, Rayman can get in, he may not. I mean, just look at Wii Fit Trainer and R.O.B. sure they're both Nintendo, but anything can happen really, Sakurai is a giant troll, plus Rayman was a classic like Mario and Sonic, Ubisoft was one of the only supporting companies for the Wii U, Nintendo and Ubisoft have a connection.

 

[SmashChu]

Anything can happen really, Rayman can get in, he may not. I mean, just look at Wii Fit Trainer and R.O.B. sure they're both Nintendo, but anything can happen really, Sakurai is a giant troll, plus Rayman was a classic like Mario and Sonic, Ubisoft was one of the only supporting companies for the Wii U, Nintendo and Ubisoft have a connection.

You're working on baseless facts. Wii Fit Trainer and ROB have a strong place in Nintendo history.

Rayman isn't classic. His first game was released on the Playstation in 1995. Sonic and Mario were both blockbusters where Rayman wasn't so much.

 

[Golden Sun]

You're working on baseless facts. Wii Fit Trainer and ROB have a strong place in Nintendo history.

Rayman isn't classic. His first game was released on the Playstation in 1995. Sonic and Mario were both blockbusters where Rayman wasn't so much.

ROB is a Nintendo worth of History, but he wasn't even popular back then. Hell even if you go up to someone who was born back then when Gyromite was made they wouldn't know what it was.
Rayman has been on almost all of Nintendo systems.
as soon as I seen you were quoting me, I had to think of the lecture of a lifetime.
Besides, this is a supporting thread, its not a world-wide vote on voting for characters to be in SSB, Nintendo doesn't give a hell about SSB supporting threads.
But Nintendo and Ubisoft still have a connection.

Inb4lecturingtime

 

[JamesDNaux]

Most of what you said is opinion, not fact. Ubisoft does not use Rayman as their mascot (Wikipedia doesn't even list him as such). Megaman has sold far more copies. The Mega Man series has 28 million according the VGChartz as opposed to Raymans's 18 or so. Mind you, Mega Man's sales came from a cold and ungoblized Market.

If you're going to use Wikipedia, why don't I kill two birds with one stone.

Mega Man: 30 Million
Rayman: 26 Million

Also noted, and I quote: Rayman became the official mascot of the video game publisher Ubisoft.

Adding the sales of the Raving Rabbids franchise, 14 million, Rayman beats Mega Man out by 10 million.

The only thing that is true is Ubisoft is larger (~1.6 billion to 900 million), but you likely guessed on that.

And now you're just trying to needlessly insult me. Did it make you feel any better about yourself?

Rayman isn't classic. His first game was released on the Playstation in 1995. Sonic and Mario were both blockbusters where Rayman wasn't so much.

Sonic is only four years older than Rayman.

Not a blockbuster? The original Rayman is the number one selling Playstation game in the UK.

Rayman 2 received high marks across the board. There's also the fact that you ignored, Rayman is still alive.

 

[Kalimdori]

Yeah, it's called the Law of Diminishing Marginal Utility. The responses from each character have been weaker and weaker. Do you really expect people to be as excited for Rayman as they were the other characters. Economic theory says no.

No sure why we need to "represent" third party companies in a Nintendo fighting game. Representation was a dumb argument during Brawl.

The responses from each character have been weaker and weaker? Since when? The third party characters in Smash Bros have been incredibly well received, people lost their minds when they saw Snake, Sonic, and Megaman revealed in Smash, and the only reason they didn't for Pacman is because Nintendo revealed him in the worst way possible. (Ironic, considering he probably would have gotten the biggest reaction)

Third party characters are some of the selling points of the game, Sakurai himself has pointed that out. I do no see where you are coming from with this "Law of Diminishing Marginal Utility", it barely even applies to this situation.

 

[Rayman4Smash]

Guys. Just to sidetrack a bit, I found this interesting video on Youtube when searching Rayman in Smash Bros. Apparently they say that Nintendo will be working with more third parties on the Wii U starting with 2015. They even mentioned about Rayman's possibility in Smash Bros. Do you suppose that Nintendo and Ubisoft will take this advantage in working together again or will Ubisoft get cold feet once again with the Wii U?

Also, here's another interesting theory article that a friend of mine on dA made: http://segagogo.deviantart.com/journal/Has-Rayman-been-spotted-in-a-Smash-4-trailer-490445937

Since there was the Pac-Man cloud in the Greninja trailer before Pac-Man was announced, and the fact that we have not one, but THREE Rayman trophies, maybe this is more than just a coincidence?

 

[SegaNintendoUbisoft]

Guys. Just to sidetrack a bit, I found this interesting video on Youtube when searching Rayman in Smash Bros. Apparently they say that Nintendo will be working with more third parties on the Wii U starting with 2015. They even mentioned about Rayman's possibility in Smash Bros. Do you suppose that Nintendo and Ubisoft will take this advantage in working together again or will Ubisoft get cold feet once again with the Wii U?

Also, here's another interesting theory article that a friend of mine on dA made: http://segagogo.deviantart.com/journal/Has-Rayman-been-spotted-in-a-Smash-4-trailer-490445937

Since there was the Pac-Man cloud in the Greninja trailer before Pac-Man was announced, and the fact that we have not one, but THREE Rayman trophies, maybe this is more than just a coincidence?

I certainty see Ubisoft and Nintendo becoming closer in regards to that news, but I don't think it necessarily means that Rayman will be in Smash.
In regards to the theory of Rayman in the rocks, I commented on that earlier on dA, but I honestly changed my mind on it. I think that is just a coincidence. The Pac-Man cloud I also think was a coincidence (though admittedly, once people pointed it out, I couldn't unsee it.)

 

[Rayman4Smash]

I certainty see Ubisoft and Nintendo becoming closer in regards to that news, but I don't think it necessarily means that Rayman will be in Smash.
In regards to the theory of Rayman in the rocks, I commented on that earlier on dA, but I honestly changed my mind on it. I think that is just a coincidence. The Pac-Man cloud I also think was a coincidence (though admittedly, once people pointed it out, I couldn't unsee it.)

Still, we can only hope.

I would actually love to see a Nintendo game that uses the UbiArt Engine like in Rayman Origins and Child of Light. Games such as Wario Land or a Metroid revival would be an awesome take on the 2D art style. Wario Land: Shake It was pretty impressive, visually, and I hope to see a sequel being released sometime soon for the Wii U.

 

[Rebellious Treecko]

I personally don't expect Rayman in a future Smash game anytime soon, but I still like to imagine what it would be like if he was in.

----

 

[LIQUID12A]

Guys. Just to sidetrack a bit, I found this interesting video on Youtube when searching Rayman in Smash Bros. Apparently they say that Nintendo will be working with more third parties on the Wii U starting with 2015. They even mentioned about Rayman's possibility in Smash Bros. Do you suppose that Nintendo and Ubisoft will take this advantage in working together again or will Ubisoft get cold feet once again with the Wii U?

Also, here's another interesting theory article that a friend of mine on dA made: http://segagogo.deviantart.com/journal/Has-Rayman-been-spotted-in-a-Smash-4-trailer-490445937

Since there was the Pac-Man cloud in the Greninja trailer before Pac-Man was announced, and the fact that we have not one, but THREE Rayman trophies, maybe this is more than just a coincidence?

Not that the theory isn't interesting, because it is, but really.

 

[Rayman4Smash]

Not that the theory isn't interesting, because it is, but really.

Yeah, I suppose you're right.

 

[Deleted member]

This seems to be more of a personal argument then a factual one, as most of what you are saying is based off of assumptions and opinions.

Yes Rayman isn't in the same ballpark as Sonic and Megaman, but he's definitely popular. Been around for nearly 2 decades, (Hardly a "new thought") his games are pretty popular and very well received. Not to mention he would represent a third party company that dwarfs the other represented 3rd parties in Smash.

I'd comment on "Going to far with third party characters", "Likely mean nothing going forward", etc. but that is entirely opinion based and really has no bearing on Rayman's chances, unless you have some sort of official source to back it up.

Also, I'll give you Ridley but claiming Inkling is more wanted then Rayman is hilarious.

I'd love to debate with the user, but it's pretty clear it's hard to reason with him. He's dead set in his opinion. I won't say Rayman is more valuble than Mega Man, which I think is a valid argument against saying why Rayman should be playable, but I will attest that, after Rayman, there is a massive drop in your selection choices. Once he's in, we must firmly shut the gate on third-party choices and be mindful of second-party characters instead.

Here's my take; third-party characters have to be within reason. Here's my criteria:

1. The character has to have not just a game on a Nintendo console, but a sizable portion of their library. I know this sounds obvious, but it bears repeating. In Rayman's case, being around for 20 years, and having had games on Nintendo platforms for 16 is pretty good, considering he's had more time on Nintendo consoles than Sonic (whose first Nintendo game, a port of the Dreamcast game Sonic Adventure 2 with added multiplayer, was released in 2001).
2. The third-party character has to be the most iconic entity from said third-party. Sonic, Mega Man, and Pac-Man are the most notable from Sega, Capcom, and Namco-Bandai, respectively. The only exception to this, if you wanna argue, is Snake, because there are people who feel that Simon Belmont is a more notable character for Konami, even though Castlevania has fallen by the wayside. It's here why you'll never see a Ryu, a Yoshimitsu, or heaven help us, a Phoenix Wright being considered. This is a Nintendo-based game, and these fighters are designated as "guests", so you want to bring in the most notable of characters. I agree that there is a decline in value, but there is still some value. It's when you are picking secondary Capcom or Sega fighters over secondary Nintendo fighters that things have gotten way out of control. My one exception would be that, in the sake of Rayman, his alternate outfits can and should reflect other Ubisoft franchises, like a Splinter Cell attire, an Assassin's Creed attire, and even his Mario attire.
3. The character should be "easy" to obtain rights to. This one is easily forgotten, but it's the reason why you'll never see Geno in a Smash Bros. game, due to the fact that it's not as easy to obtain rights to a SquareEnix character, even though they made a few DS games featuring their job classes and creatures from Final Fantasy and a crossover party game with Dragon Quest characters. SquareEnix would have to have a major role, not just providing the rights, in making the game in order for it to happen, and this would be a scenario where SquareEnix would probably suggest using a Cloud Strife (who has barely appeared on any Nintendo console) or *shudder* Sora. Considering how idiotic the company has been lately, with the Dragon Quest X MMO and porting the PC version of Final Fantasy VII to PS4, why would you work with them? Their current, murky relationship with Ubisoft means nothing as Ubisoft Montipilier (Rayman's team) would go around them and help develop the character and even build the entire foundation, leaving the Smash Bros. team to just add finishing touches and incorporate his data files.
4. In addition to rights, the character has to be agreed on by Nintendo. Snake was a controversial choice given the fact that he came from a Mature-rated franchise (Nintendo has only done two on their own; Geist & Eternal Darkness: Sanity's Requiem), he smoked (though it was always bad for his health), and that he used firearms, which was why his moveset used explosions and rockets instead of bullets and he used a sleeper hold instead of a throat slit (though he could do both in the games), but got in because of Sakurai, who as far as we know, won't be in charge of Smash DLC onward. Rayman wouldn't be as tough a sell due to the fact that Nintendo has had (for the most part until recently) a good deal with Ubisoft and that they published Rayman's latest title in Japan. Plus... aside from Commander Video, which third-party franchise got trophies in Smash Bros.?

So, this is my take on it. If you feel like we've gone overboard, you have every right to believe that, but I argue that Rayman is a decent choice to look at, and as far as I'm concerned, he's your final pick for a third-party fighter.

 

[Rayman4Smash]

I'd love to debate with the user, but it's pretty clear it's hard to reason with him. He's dead set in his opinion. I won't say Rayman is more valuble than Mega Man, which I think is a valid argument against saying why Rayman should be playable, but I will attest that, after Rayman, there is a massive drop in your selection choices. Once he's in, we must firmly shut the gate on third-party choices and be mindful of second-party characters instead.

Here's my take; third-party characters have to be within reason. Here's my criteria:

1. The character has to have not just a game on a Nintendo console, but a sizable portion. I know this sounds obvious, but it bears repeating. In Rayman's case, being around for 20 years, and having had games on Nintendo platforms for 16 is pretty good, considering he's had more time than Sonic.
2. The third-party character has to be the most iconic entity from said third-party. Sonic, Mega Man, and Pac-Man are the most notable from Sega, Capcom, and Namco-Bandai, respectively. The only exception to this, if you wanna argue, is Snake, because there are people who feel that Simon Belmont is a more notable character for Konami, even though Castlevania has fallen by the wayside. It's here why you'll never see a Ryu, a Yoshimitsu, or heaven help us, a Phoenix Wright being considered. This is a Nintendo-based game, and these fighters are designated as "guests", so you want to bring in the most notable of characters. I agree that there is a decline in value, but there is still some value. It's when you are picking secondary Capcom or Sega fighters over secondary Nintendo fighters that things have gotten way out of control. My one exception would be that, in the sake of Rayman, his alternate outfits can and should reflect other Ubisoft franchises, like a Splinter Cell attire, an Assassin's Creed attire, and even his Mario attire.
3. The character should be "easy" to obtain rights to. This one is easily forgotten, but it's the reason why you'll never see Geno in a Smash Bros. game, due to the fact that it's not as easy to obtain rights to a SquareEnix character, even though they made a few DS games featuring their job classes and creatures from Final Fantasy and a crossover party game with Dragon Quest characters. SquareEnix would have to have a major role, not just providing the rights, in making the game in order for it to happen, and this would be a scenario where SquareEnix would probably suggest using a Cloud Strife (who has barely appeared on any Nintendo console) or *shudder* Sora. Considering how idiotic the company has been lately, with the Dragon Quest X MMO and porting the PC version of Final Fantasy VII to PS4, why would you work with them? Their current, murky relationship with Ubisoft means nothing as Ubisoft Montipilier (Rayman's team) would go around them and help develop the character and even build the entire foundation, leaving the Smash Bros. team to just add finishing touches and incorporate his data files.
4. In addition to rights, the character has to be agreed on by Nintendo. Snake was a controversial choice given the fact that he came from a Mature-rated franchise (Nintendo has only done two on their own; Geist & Eternal Darkness: Sanity's Requiem), he smoked (though it was always bad for his health), and that he used firearms, which was why his moveset used explosions and rockets instead of bullets and he used a sleeper hold instead of a throat slit (though he could do both in the games), but got in because of Sakurai, who as far as we know, won't be in charge of Smash DLC onward. Rayman wouldn't be as tough a sell due to the fact that Nintendo has had (for the most part until recently) a good deal with Ubisoft and that they published Rayman's latest title in Japan. Plus... aside from Commander Video, which third-party franchise got trophies in Smash Bros.?

So, this is my take on it. If you feel like we've gone overboard, you have every right to believe that, but I argue that Rayman is a decent choice to look at, and as far as I'm concerned, he's your final pick for a third-party fighter.

My friend, that's the most sensible thing I've ever read. For that you just earned yourself a follower.

In any case, you may vaguely remember this, but you might remember that one of the members here posted about a letter to Nintendo regarding Rayman, right?

http://superabachibros.deviantart.com/art/New-letter-to-Nintendo-regarding-Rayman-497578378

Well, that was me who wrote the letter before joining this thread group. I've also gotten a response from Nintendo about the letter. They said that they 'won't promise Rayman being included in as DLC, but they'll take this response into consideration'.

Even if they won't say yes or no, it's reassuring that they'll listen to their fans for the most part.

 

[LIQUID12A]

Well, that was me who wrote the letter before joining this thread group. I've also gotten a response from Nintendo about the letter. They said that they 'won't promise Rayman being included in as DLC, but they'll take this response into consideration'.

SHOW.