Rate their Chances: the DLC Edition. Day: 192: The final day

[FancySmash]

really what don't people understand about that

I believe they mean they were left over as beta elements of the game initially, but accidentally included it in the update, even though they were scrapped.

Or, that's my interpretation anyway.

 

[IceBreakerXY]

I believe they mean they were left over as beta elements of the game initially, but accidentally included it in the update, even though they were scrapped.

Or, that's my interpretation anyway.

but that doesn't explain why they wouldn't remove the files after the most recent patch

 

[Sid-cada]

Lord Roy (enough with the koopaling jokes already)

Chance - 99.5% - While I don't like to think in absolutes, Roy is as close to one as we get. Not only has he been found in the game data, Sakurai supposedly has an announcement for the upcoming Fire Emblem Concert. I'm giving him more than I will give Ryu, for Pete's sake! The only thing that's holding me back is a sudden upset.

Want - 77.5% - Not a mega supporter, nor have I played Melee, but he's a character I fell that should not have been cut. I would accept him with open arms, especially if he would be de-cloned if him being part of the Forbidden Seven has anything to say.


Ridley Prediction - 1.23% - What is this, controversy week?


Nominations
New Guidance Conversations X2
Anna (FE) X2
De-cloned Roy X1

 

[ChronoBound]

ROY (FE)

one of them who plays very Roy like who I like far better.

As I said earlier in this thread there is a a strong cognitive dissonance amongst Lucina fans. The SOLE difference between Marth and Lucina is that she lacks the tipper. Roy on the otherhand has his sweetspot closer to the hilt, specials with different properties, several a-moves with different properties, different speed and fall speed, different weight. Lucina even shares the same idle animations with Marth.

I can never, ever understand anyone who says that Lucina replaces Roy considering that she barely has any difference from Marth, and is literally one step removed from being an alternate costume.

 

[FancySmash]

but that doesn't explain why they wouldn't remove the files after the most recent patch

What would be the point perhaps? If people have already seen them and they affect the game in no way, what's the rush to remove them.

Personally, unless Sakurai changes his mind (which is very possible), Roy is guaranteed, along with Mega Man's bully of brother (he just loves crashing Mega Man's party doesn't he?). Am I ecstatic about this? Not really, the only way I'd be happy to see Roy is if I see Ice Climbers, Snake, and Wolf as well (just one won't cut it , although I know there are licensing and limitations, so I can't be too salty). I want uniqueness rather than clones. Actually, I wouldn't mind Roy if it weren't for the fact that Marth already has a clone, one that we get for free. If Roy is decloned, I'll feel better about him (maybe). Anyway, I got off track. While I might not be necessarily happy about him, I know when to wake up and smell the java.

 

[A Distant Demon]

What would be the point perhaps? If people have already seen them and they affect the game in no way, what's the rush to remove them.

Personally, unless Sakurai changes his mind (which is very possible), Roy is guaranteed, along with Mega Man's bully of brother (he just loves crashing Mega Man's party doesn't he?). Am I ecstatic about this? Not really, the only way I'd be happy to see Roy is if I see Ice Climbers, Snake, and Wolf as well (just one won't cut it , although I know there are licensing and limitations, so I can't be too salty). I want uniqueness rather than clones. Actually, I wouldn't mind Roy if it weren't for the fact that Marth already has a clone, one that we get for free. If Roy is decloned, I'll feel better about him (maybe). Anyway, I got off track. While I might not be necessarily happy about him, I know when to wake up and smell the java.

ganondorf was spotted in a commercial and it was removed immediately. it would make sense they would remove the content.

 

[Thereallucario]

the sound files werent left over. they were added in an update.

Well, that IS a little curious... but still not enough to be 100%. Unfortunately that has no clear meaning that Roy is still going to be in the game, but at least he's at this moment involved with something and that something has the possibility of being his character addition. I'll add +25%

 

[IceBreakerXY]

What would be the point perhaps? If people have already seen them and they affect the game in no way, what's the rush to remove them.

Personally, unless Sakurai changes his mind (which is very possible), Roy is guaranteed, along with Mega Man's bully of brother (he just loves crashing Mega Man's party doesn't he?). Am I ecstatic about this? Not really, the only way I'd be happy to see Roy is if I see Ice Climbers, Snake, and Wolf as well (just one won't cut it , although I know there are licensing and limitations, so I can't be too salty). I want uniqueness rather than clones. Actually, I wouldn't mind Roy if it weren't for the fact that Marth already has a clone, one that we get for free. If Roy is decloned, I'll feel better about him (maybe). Anyway, I got off track. While I might not be necessarily happy about him, I know when to wake up and smell the java.

but things have been leaked out before.As @ A Distant Demon ganondorf was in a commerical and they edited him out.As will the great cave offensive being leaked on facebook WAY before the stage was annouced(like a 1-3 weeks) just for it to be taken dwon.Let's not forget the ESRB leak which they toke down quickly than snap my fingers.I don't see why they wouldn't remove the files

 

[Arcanir]

Roy
Chance: 95%
He's in the patch files with his own victory theme, something that only playable characters get (not even alts), so more then likely he's being made as a character. The only way I could see him not get into the game now is if he's nixed later during development, and I doubt that personally if he has his own victory theme implemented already.

Want: 20%
While I'm happy that the fans are getting their character back, I'm personally not that fond of him. He's not a character I cared for when playing Binding Blade nor a character that I really want to see back through DLC as his (initial at least) moveset doesn't appeal to me. Hopefully he'll be luigified in DLC as then he'll be more interesting, but as it stands right now, I don't really have that strong of a desire to see him.

 

[Zerp]

Roy
Chance: 85% Them sound files are pretty damning evidence, but not solid proof.
Want: 20% I don't really want another FE character (Over representation to the max?) or a clone , but my brother mains Roy so I'll be happy for him and all the others who like him.
Nominations: Magolor x 5
(Did I do this right? Feel free to tell me if I need to change anything)

 

[Dynamite]

Roy

Chance: 90%
The fact that he has sound files in the 3ds version makes him extremely likely. However, I'm not gonna give him a 100% chance rating, because you never know what could happen in future, and honestly...I don't feel comfortable giving any character a 100% chance rating.

Want: 100%
I've always preferred Roy over Marth in Melee. I just found Roy to be way cooler than Marth with his fire effects, stronger neutral B, stronger counter, cool voice, and awesome victory poses. ^^ In fact, when I was a kid I thought Roy was better than Marth stat wise. It wasn't until I started lurking this site about seven years ago that I found out Marth was way better than Roy competitively.

I was really disappointed that Roy wasn't in Brawl, and even though I didn't have my hopes up for him to be on Smash 4's final roster, I was still a bit disappointed he wasn't present on the roster. Fortunately since dlc is now a thing, Roy has an opportunity to come back, and judging by the looks of things that just might happen. =)

Ridley Prediction: 17%

Nominations: Chorus Kids x5

 

[FancySmash]

but things have been leaked out before.As @ A Distant Demon ganondorf was in a commerical and they edited him out.As will the great cave offensive being leaked on facebook WAY before the stage was annouced(like a 1-3 weeks) just for it to be taken dwon.Let's not forget the ESRB leak which they toke down quickly than snap my fingers.I don't see why they wouldn't remove the files

Wait. You mean Ganondorf was in a video, but edited out. While Roy/Ryu content was found, but left in. Ganondorf later appeared in the game. Wouldn't removing the files confirm Ryu and Roy even more? Is there something I'm not getting here?

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Roy: 95%

Positives:
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ His sounds files were ADDED into the game. Not leftover.
+++ Veteran
++ Very popular worldwide
+ Easy to make

Negatives:
--- A relatively unpopular clone
--Not exactly relevant
- More Popular in Japan than west
- Japan Only
- Divisive

Really, at this point, only one point really matters.

We found data for Roy added in with Mewtwo.

There is no other explanation.


Want: 85%

Good thing too, as I am very anti-cut and want most veterans back. Roy included.

I feel he's a part of history.

Three cheers for our boy.


Ridley Prediction: 4.5%

He ain't going to do so hot, but people will inflate their scores.

Nominate:
Phoenix Wright x 3
Ivysaur
Squirtle

 

[Ura]

Some people also liked having a Fiery Marth with power at the hilt. People also liked having a Ness semi-clone, which is the main reason why we have Lucas back, and is very likely the reason why Roy will likely be back.

Furthermore, given what I've read, there are just as many people who hate Falcondorf's moveset as love it. Those people have been flat-out ignored for two games running, and they're usually Zelda fans, which comprise one of the largest Nintendo fanbases. Fire Emblem may be up-and-coming, but it's still not Zelda.

In short, I still see no reason why Roy's situation is significantly different from those of Ganondorf and Lucas.

Like I said various times before, their hasn't been a case where a previous direct clone is incorporated as DLC while another direct clone already exists in the game. The absolute worst case scenario here is Roy gets decent tweaks to his moveset like Falco and Ganondorf.

 

[A Distant Demon]

Like I said various times before, their hasn't been a case where a previous direct clone is incorporated as DLC while another direct clone already exists in the game. The absolute worst case scenario here is Roy gets decent tweaks to his moveset like Falco and Ganondorf.

There is also only 2 cases of dlc neither of which were based on direct clones but are unchanged anyway. . .

 

[FancySmash]

This is another thing that baffles me about Roy's inclusion. Yes, I know Ice Climbers had technical limitations and Snake had licensing issues (both of which could possibly be fixed), but Wolf was still more popular. Not saying Roy wasn't popular, but this defies what the statistics shows. Can anyone explain this one? I've never really gotten an answer for it.

 

[Ura]

There is also only 2 cases of dlc neither of which were based on direct clones but are unchanged anyway. . .

Well yeah, it wouldn't make much sense to change those characters other than balancing reasons.

This is another thing that baffles me about Roy's inclusion. Yes, I know Ice Climbers had technical limitations and Snake had licensing issues (both of which could possibly be fixed), but Wolf was still more popular. Not saying Roy wasn't popular, but this defies what the statistics shows. Can anyone explain this one? I've never really gotten an answer for it.

Like you said yourself, IC's have the technical issues (otherwise they would be in the game right now) and then theirs the whole deal with Snake. Wolf is really likely to also be DLC. Worst case scenario, he gets in the ballot even though he's much more likely to be pre-determined DLC.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

This is another thing that baffles me about Roy's inclusion. Yes, I know Ice Climbers had technical limitations and Snake had licensing issues (both of which could possibly be fixed), but Wolf was still more popular. Not saying Roy wasn't popular, but this defies what the statistics shows. Can anyone explain this one? I've never really gotten an answer for it.

You make it seem like we aren't getting Wolf too.

You're assuming Roy somehow deconfirms Wolf.

 

[ChronoBound]

This is another thing that baffles me about Roy's inclusion. Yes, I know Ice Climbers had technical limitations and Snake had licensing issues (both of which could possibly be fixed), but Wolf was still more popular. Not saying Roy wasn't popular, but this defies what the statistics shows. Can anyone explain this one? I've never really gotten an answer for it.

There was another poll done by a Japanese Smash fan on twitter where Roy came far ahead.

 

[IceBreakerXY]

This is another thing that baffles me about Roy's inclusion. Yes, I know Ice Climbers had technical limitations and Snake had licensing issues (both of which could possibly be fixed), but Wolf was still more popular. Not saying Roy wasn't popular, but this defies what the statistics shows. Can anyone explain this one? I've never really gotten an answer for it.

will you can't forget that roy is part of the forbidden 7 so maybe that put him above the other vets.i mean we already have 2 of them in maybe he said **** it let's add the rest.Just my theory anyway

 

[Zerp]

This is another thing that baffles me about Roy's inclusion. Yes, I know Ice Climbers had technical limitations and Snake had licensing issues (both of which could possibly be fixed), but Wolf was still more popular. Not saying Roy wasn't popular, but this defies what the statistics shows. Can anyone explain this one? I've never really gotten an answer for it.

I heard Mr.Sakurai likes Fire emblem a lot personally (heck he's even going to a FE concert, and he was given special thanks in Binding Blade's credits (roy's game)), and we all know how biased he can be at times (just like anyone else, we are all biased).

 

[Seanp12]

Like I said various times before, their hasn't been a case where a previous direct clone is incorporated as DLC while another direct clone already exists in the game. The absolute worst case scenario here is Roy gets decent tweaks to his moveset like Falco and Ganondorf.

There also has never been a DLC direct clone that was changed.

In fact, there's never been a direct clone as DLC period. There's no precedent either way in that regard. On the other hand, we do have two returning Melee characters who are unchanged, one of which is DLC and the other is a direct clone. That trend is a precedent, and bodes badly for the chances of a luigified Roy.

 

[FancySmash]

You make it seem like we aren't getting Wolf too.

You're assuming Roy somehow deconfirms Wolf.

That's poor wording on my part. I was wondering how Roy got in before Wolf is all.

There was another poll done by a Japanese Smash fan on twitter where Roy came far ahead.

You don't happen to have the source, do you?

 

[Ura]

There also has never been a DLC direct clone that was changed.

In fact, there's never been a direct clone as DLC period. There's no precedent either way in that regard. On the other hand, we do have two returning Melee characters who are unchanged, one of which is DLC and the other is a direct clone. That trend is a precedent, and bodes badly for the chances of a luigified Roy.

That's because there's never been a direct DLC clone at all. Maybe you forgot that piece of info.

Dr. Mario was supposed to be an alt though like Dark Pit and Lucina, he got a separate slot so that's expected why he wouldn't be changed.

 

[ChronoBound]

You don't happen to have the source, do you?

1. https://twitter.com/yellow_mini4wd
   
   
   133 votes Roy (FE)
   87 votes Wolf
   82 votes Bandana Waddle Dee (47 Bandana Dee + 35 Waddle Dee)
   53 votes Snake
   46 votes Inkling
   45 votes Geno
   37 votes Ice Climbers
   34 votes Sukapon
   33 votes Chrom (FE)
   32 votes Banjo Kazooie
   30 votes King K. Rool
   26 votes Viridi
   23 votes Dixie
   21 votes Magolor
   20 votes Paper Mario
   19 votes Child Link
   18 votes Krystal
   17 votes Goemon, Chibi-Robo, Ray MKII
   16 votes Isaac
   15 votes Bayonetta
   14 votes Daisy, Black Shadow
   13 votes Ashley
   12 votes Toon Ganondorf
   11 votes Pichu
   10 votes DeMille (from Tomato Adventure)
   
   
   This is a poll/census done by a Japanese Smash fan on twitter counting Japanese twitter posts saying which character they voted for. It gives an idea what are the overall characters they most want to see.

 

[FancySmash]

1. https://twitter.com/yellow_mini4wd
   
   
   133 votes Roy (FE)
   87 votes Wolf
   82 votes Bandana Waddle Dee (47 Bandana Dee + 35 Waddle Dee)
   53 votes Snake
   46 votes Inkling
   45 votes Geno
   37 votes Ice Climbers
   34 votes Sukapon
   33 votes Chrom (FE)
   32 votes Banjo Kazooie
   30 votes King K. Rool
   26 votes Viridi
   23 votes Dixie
   21 votes Magolor
   20 votes Paper Mario
   19 votes Child Link
   18 votes Krystal
   17 votes Goemon, Chibi-Robo, Ray MKII
   16 votes Isaac
   15 votes Bayonetta
   14 votes Daisy, Black Shadow
   13 votes Ashley
   12 votes Toon Ganondorf
   11 votes Pichu
   10 votes DeMille (from Tomato Adventure)
   
   
   This is a poll/census done by a Japanese Smash fan on twitter counting Japanese twitter posts saying which character they voted for. It gives an idea what are the overall characters they most want to see.

Hmm, so votes are essentially region specific. Darn, it would be really helpful if we had an average between the multiple regions.

 

[A Distant Demon]

Well yeah, it wouldn't make much sense to change those characters other than balancing reasons.

Then you cant use it as evidence. If mewtwo/lucas were changed sure. But there has been no clone character as dlc that has been decloned to set the precedent. Currently there is no evidence that clones will be decloned as dlc because there are no previous examples of such.

saying it hasnt happened so it wont happen is silly when there are no previous examples to set a trend. This is a new frontier.



Viridi had more mentions than dixie and barely less than k rool yes i know its cherry picking shh.

 

[IceBreakerXY]

1. https://twitter.com/yellow_mini4wd
   
   
   133 votes Roy (FE)
   87 votes Wolf
   82 votes Bandana Waddle Dee (47 Bandana Dee + 35 Waddle Dee)
   53 votes Snake
   46 votes Inkling
   45 votes Geno
   37 votes Ice Climbers
   34 votes Sukapon
   33 votes Chrom (FE)
   32 votes Banjo Kazooie
   30 votes King K. Rool
   26 votes Viridi
   23 votes Dixie
   21 votes Magolor
   20 votes Paper Mario
   19 votes Child Link
   18 votes Krystal
   17 votes Goemon, Chibi-Robo, Ray MKII
   16 votes Isaac
   15 votes Bayonetta
   14 votes Daisy, Black Shadow
   13 votes Ashley
   12 votes Toon Ganondorf
   11 votes Pichu
   10 votes DeMille (from Tomato Adventure)
   
   
   This is a poll/census done by a Japanese Smash fan on twitter counting Japanese twitter posts saying which character they voted for. It gives an idea what are the overall characters they most want to see.

taking out vets,deconfirmed characters(aka already in the game), and thrid parties. the top 5 newcomers over there are

1. bandanna dee
2. inkling
3. sukapon
4. k rool
5. viridi

can't say i would be mad if any of these characters got in

 

[Seanp12]

That's because there's never been a direct DLC clone at all. Maybe you forgot that piece of info.

Dr. Mario was supposed to be an alt though like Dark Pit and Lucina, he got a separate slot so that's expected why he wouldn't be changed.

I suppose you missed the part where I said, "In fact, there's never been a direct clone as DLC period." I'm saying that while you are correct that no direct clone has ever been added when there's already a direct clone, there's never even been a chance for that to happen before. A lack of evidence for one side is not proof of the other--particularly when the other is lacking for the same reason.

And that Sakurai said that Dr. Mario was the reason why he decided against leaving characters with even minute differences as costumes. Doc was always intended to have pills instead of fireballs, so Sakurai decided that he and the other two costumes with minor differences would be split from their characters.

And given that there is zero precedent for anything concerning DLC direct clones, I still don't see why Roy should get privileges that Ganondorf does not.

 

[Ura]

Then you cant use it as evidence. If mewtwo/lucas were changed sure. But there has been no clone character as dlc that has been decloned to set the precedent. Currently there is no evidence that clones will be decloned as dlc because there are no previous examples of such.

saying it hasnt happened so it wont happen is silly when there are no previous examples to set a trend. This is a new frontier.



Viridi had more mentions than dixie and barely less than k rool yes i know its cherry picking shh.

Why can't I use it as evidence? All I said the mentioned characters were not changed and were only given balanced tweaks. Everyone else in the roster got the same treatment. Being balanced isn't the same thing as being changed.

I could keep on saying that Roy's case is a lot different than Mewtwo's and Lucas's but I think it will fall on deaf ears again.

I suppose you missed the part where I said, "In fact, there's never been a direct clone as DLC period." I'm saying that while you are correct that no direct clone has ever been added when there's already a direct clone, there's never even been a chance for that to happen before. A lack of evidence for one side is not proof of the other--particularly when the other is lacking for the same reason.

And that Sakurai said that Dr. Mario was the reason why he decided against leaving characters with even minute differences as costumes. Doc was always intended to have pills instead of fireballs, so Sakurai decided that he and the other two costumes with minor differences would be split from their characters.


And given that there is zero precedent for anything concerning DLC direct clones, I still don't see why Roy should get privileges that Ganondorf does not.

I'm only bringing this up because people use Mewtwo and Lucas not having moveset changes as a reason to prove why Roy won't get any moveset changes when i've been trying to tell them that Roy's case isn't the same.

And hence why Dr. Mario got in the game as did Lucina and Dark Pit. They were characters that didn't require a lot of changes and hence were easy to make. As Sakurai said himself, it's like getting dessert after a course meal.

You can bring up Ganondorf again and again but the bottom line is his case is nothing like Roy's. For Ganondorf, it's a case of him needing to be changed to stay faithful to his canon self were as for Roy, it's a matter of making him unique so their won't be 2 direct clones in the game. Ganondorf, while not being faithful to his game appearances still plays much more uniquely than his originator does. Roy does not have this perk and hence is in need of a moveset change. That's what i'm trying to say here.

 

[Oasis Dealer]

Roy
Chance: 95%
He has sound files patched into the game. Makes his chances pretty; Though there is a small chance of it not happening.

Want: 60%
3 Marth characters? Bugs me a bit, but whatever. There's a chance they change him up. However, I do like Roy. His playstyle is a mixture of Marth and Lucina which I like, he has cool fire abilitys, and he's probably one of the few FE characters that I honestly think looks pretty cool. 5 FE characters? Don't care, a character shouldn't get in just because of repping. If a character is popular, brings something unique, or is an easy to make clone, then I think it's perfectly fine.

 

[wildvine47]

This is another thing that baffles me about Roy's inclusion. Yes, I know Ice Climbers had technical limitations and Snake had licensing issues (both of which could possibly be fixed), but Wolf was still more popular. Not saying Roy wasn't popular, but this defies what the statistics shows. Can anyone explain this one? I've never really gotten an answer for it.

Roy's inclusion in the files doesn't mean Wolf isn't on the way. Heck just the other day we gave Wolf a 90%+ chance score. He's on his way, imo, for sure. Roy's files being added first doesn't mean anything really. He could be released first after Lucas, or Wolf could be. The fact that there's two blank instance slots in the data as well, alongside the known Mewtwo, Lucas, Roy and Ryu, more than anything else likely means the data accidentally added to Mewtwo's update was incomplete. Those blank slots could be anyone, but most likely? One of them is Wolf and its just that his files weren't accidentally included.

At this point I see Wolf as a forgone conclusion. He's coming back and Roy's return is not going to have any affect on that.

This isn't Wolf day though, it's Roy time.

Roy

Chance : 99% - He had files added post-launch to the released copy of the game. He's coming to Smash 4 barring some catastrophic event that prevents it.

Want: 100% - Roy, aside from Mewtwo, was always the character I missed most out of Melee's cuts. I always thought of the two as a package deal, where if we got one back we were definitely getting the other everntually. I was scared for a while leading up to Mewtwo's release, but now that we have the next best thing to direct confirmation of him as DLC, I'm ecstatic. I always preferred Roy's playstyle and aesthetics to Marth's, and Lucina's didn't really fill the same gap for me. Seeing him back finally after so long and after so many had given up on him will probably be my favorite DLC announcement so far when he's revealed. It'll be nice to finally see him take his place again as a Nintendo all-star.

Nominations: Andy (Wars series) x 3, Adam Malkovich x 2

 

[A Distant Demon]

Why can't I use it as evidence? All I said the mentioned characters were not changed and were only given balanced tweaks. Everyone else in the roster got the same treatment. Being balanced isn't the same thing as being changed.

I could keep on saying that Roy's case is a lot different than Mewtwo's and Lucas's but I think it will fall on deaf ears again.



I'm only bringing this up because people use Mewtwo and Lucas not having moveset changes as a reason to prove why Roy won't get any moveset changes when i've been trying to tell them that Roy's case isn't the same.

And hence why Dr. Mario got in the game as did Lucina and Dark Pit. They were characters that didn't require a lot of changes and hence were easy to make. As Sakurai said himself, it's like getting dessert after a course meal.

You can bring up Ganondorf again an again but the bottom line is his case is nothing like Roy's. For Ganondorf, it's a case of him needing to be changed to stay faithful to his canon self were as for Roy, it's a matter of making him unique so their won't be 2 direct clones in the game. Ganondorf, while not being faithful to his game appearances still plays much more uniquely than his originator does. Roy does not have this perk and hence is in need of a moveset change. That's what i'm trying to say here.

Because you are saying "no clone character has been added as dlc" when there is no evidence of decloning. There is a heavy burden of proof on you that a character will be decloned because it hasnt happened yet.

There "hasnt been a case" of a clone being added because there have been 0 opportunities until now. This will be the very first piece of evidence. There is no past evidence of decloning as dlc.

 

[Seanp12]

I'm only bringing this up because people use Mewtwo and Lucas not having moveset changes as a reason to prove why Roy won't get any moveset changes when i've been trying to tell them that Roy's case isn't the same.

And hence why Dr. Mario got in the game as did Lucina and Dark Pit. They were characters that didn't require a lot of changes and hence were easy to make. As Sakurai said himself, it's like getting dessert after a course meal.

You can bring up Ganondorf again and again but the bottom line is his case is nothing like Roy's. For Ganondorf, it's a case of him needing to be changed to stay faithful to his canon self were as for Roy, it's a matter of making him unique so their won't be 2 direct clones in the game. Ganondorf, while not being faithful to his game appearances still plays much more uniquely than his originator does. Roy does not have this perk and hence is in need of a moveset change. That's what i'm trying to say here.

But you haven't explained why it's not the same. You say it's because they wouldn't dare add another direct clone, but we don't know that. No developer has stated that they would not, and we don't have another DLC direct clone to compare him to.

It's true that the fanbase thinks that Roy should be changed if he's included, but the idea that the developers agree is unfounded. That's why we resort to the trends we do see, such as DLC veterans being unchanged and returning Melee characters being unchanged. Unless you can demonstrate that the developers will not add Roy without changing him, that's all the solid evidence we have to work from.

 

[Ura]

Because you are saying "no clone character has been added as dlc" when there is no evidence of decloning. There is a heavy burden of proof on you that a character will be decloned because it hasnt happened yet.

There "hasnt been a case" of a clone being added because there have been 0 opportunities until now. This will be the very first piece of evidence. There is no past evidence of decloning as dlc.

I'm saying theirs a great need for the decloning to take place. Whether Sakurai does it or not is in question though with Lucina in the game, Roy is very much in need of being revamped.

Maybe their doesn't need a precedent to happen? If I recall correctly, their was a established fan rule of their not being 2 characters from the same 3rd party in the game. That's looking to become non-existent in the near future...

But you haven't explained why it's not the same. You say it's because they wouldn't dare add another direct clone, but we don't know that. No developer has stated that they would not, and we don't have another DLC direct clone to compare him to.

It's true that the fanbase thinks that Roy should be changed if he's included, but the idea that the developers agree is unfounded. That's why we resort to the trends we do see, such as DLC veterans being unchanged and returning Melee characters being unchanged. Unless you can demonstrate that the developers will not add Roy without changing him, that's all the solid evidence we have to work from.

I'm not speaking on Sakurai's behalf or anyone that works on the DLC characters in the game. I'm saying he's the one who needs the revamp out of all the characters in the game. Whether Sakurai does it or not IDK. It wouldn't be a logical thing to do if were changed for free while remained the same as he was before as paid DLC.

 

[Seanp12]

Maybe their doesn't need a precedent to happen? If I recall correctly, their was a established fan rule of their not being 2 characters from the same 3rd party in the game. That's looking to become non-existent in the near future...

Anything can happen. But until it does, evidence is against it right now. If you're arguing likelihood, then you're going to need to show a precedent.

 

[A Distant Demon]

I'm saying theirs a great need for the decloning to take place. Whether Sakurai does it or not is in question though with Lucina in the game, Roy is very much in need of being revamped.

Maybe their doesn't need a precedent to happen? If I recall correctly, their was a established fan rule of their not being 2 characters from the same 3rd party in the game. That's looking to become non-existent in the near future...

Just because there is a need doesnt mean it will happen. You were using the lack of any applicable examples as evidence which is illogical. If young link were dlc and decloned that would be evidence but he hasnt been. THERE ARE 0 EXAMPLES OF DLC DECLONING.

And then you jump to a completely different topic as evidence that has nothimg to do with what we are talking about even though your argument was that there was a precedent.

there hasn't been a case where a previous direct clone is incorporated as DLC while another direct clone already exists in the game. .

oh look a precedent you used.
You just fought against your own argument. Thanks.

 

[Ura]

Anything can happen. But until it does, evidence is against it right now. If you're arguing likelihood, then you're going to need to show a precedent.

Well, if your going to continue saying things like "Dr. Mario, Mewtwo, and Lucas weren't changed in the game" as a means to prove that Roy will stay a direct clone, IDK what to say because I tried my best to show why his case wasn't similar to anyone one of them. I'm not saying that Sakurai will defiantly go about with the moveset change, i'm saying it's a logical approach to take and it's not as unlikely as some make it out to be. Why are allowed to have moveset changes and can't I just don't know.

 

[Seanp12]

Well, if your going to continue saying things like "Dr. Mario, Mewtwo, and Lucas weren't changed in the game" as a means to prove that Roy will stay a direct clone, IDK what to say because I tried my best to show why his case wasn't similar to anyone one of them. I'm not saying that Sakurai will defiantly go about with the moveset change, i'm saying it's a logical approach to take and it's not as unlikely as some make it out to be. Why are allowed to have moveset changes and can't I just don't know.

Give me evidence that the developers believe that Roy needs to be changed, and I'll change my mind.

Roy's "need" is all opinion. The fans say he needs to be changed, but we also said that we needed K. Rool, Ridley (well, some fans), and myriad other things. Unless the developers believe it too, it makes no difference.

 

[Croph]

I mean, clone characters like Luigi, Falco, Ganon, etc. have gotten fleshed out over the installments. Roy was also planned for Brawl, so the team probably had some rough ideas for changes to his moveset, especially considering how the other clones like Falco and Ganon got changes.

Fast forward to Smash 4, Mewtwo doesn't need drastic changes since his moveset is already unique. Lucas is unique enough. At the very least I could see Roy being similar to Ganon/Falco.

Roy's situation is different because with DLC you're selling a single character as oppose to the whole roster. They might go the extra mile and de-clone Roy (or make him similar to Lucas) if they feel like Roy being a clone may not be as profitable and would like Roy to have a better selling point (still think he'd be profitable if he's still clone-ish). I don't know how likely that situation is, however.

In the end, I think there's too many factors to take into account here. We'll have to wait and see how things turn out.