Rate their Chances: the DLC Edition. Day: 192: The final day

[aldelaro5]

Not quite as polarizing as I expected. The Ice Climbers have a pretty warm reception so far, but how long will it stay?

...Hey, does anyone else feel a draft?

-♪-

Ice Climbers

Chance: 20%
Popo and Nana got shafted this time around. They were originally planned to be in, as evidenced by the Ice Climber-themed content that still remains and the fact that their victory theme and crowd cheer are still in the games. But (someone correct me if I get any terms wrong) Nana's complicated AI proved too much for the 3DS' RAM to handle, and any time multiple sets of Ice Climbers were in play the game lagged to the point of unplayability. Sakurai wanted the roster to be the same in both versions, and so the duo was left off. To use a metaphor, it's as if they got injured and had to sit out this time.

But can the dev team solve the problems that held the Climbers down and rehab them in time for DLC? While it sounds easy on paper...the truth is more complicated than it seems, regardless of which option you look at. They could try to simply get Nana working in a way that doesn't overtax the 3DS...but doing so would be a time investment with an uncertain outcome. If they pulled it off, it'd be a success...but if they couldn't, they'd have a lot of wasted time on their hands with nothing to show for it. With development schedules as tight as they are, it could be too big of a blow for them to risk.

There's also another idea making the rounds: reducing them to a single Ice Climber, with Popo as half the costumes and Nana as the other half. It'd solve the very issue that prevented them from working in the 3DS version and still be a nod to their home game's single player mode. However, their nature as a duo character was their whole identity in Melee and Brawl. Not only would entire parts of their moveset have to be rewritten to work with one Climber, they'd be a hollow shell of what they once were. Not only would they not be as interesting, they wouldn't feel true to character any more...and we've seen Sakurai's worry of not being true to character be a big problem before.

Furthermore, what about Smash 5? It's almost certain the 3DS' successor will have the processing power to handle the Ice Climbers. Why would they change them now to make them DLC, knowing they'd have to change them back for the next game?

Finally, there's the third option: having them be exclusive to the Wii U version, or only available in the 3DS version to New 3DS owners. To be honest? This idea is ridiculous. Sakurai has said repeatedly that he does not want any characters exclusive to one version so that those who only own one version aren't left out. To act like he should throw that out just so one character can get special treatment!? It's...

...Okay, easy. This isn't the time or place to rant.

Can they still get in? Technically, yes. But the Ice Climbers have a real mountain to climb in order to make it, and there's no certainty there's even a path to the top to begin with.

Want: 20%
The Ice Climbers are an interesting concept that, so far, hasn't been implemented well in either of their appearances. Their duo mechanic didn't always work correctly, they had glaring issues in their moveset, and the only reason they've been high tier in two games is due to exploits that are infuriating when you're on the receiving end and have to watch helplessly as you die from getting grabbed once.

I'm not saying they can't be redeemed...I mean, of course they can. They just leave a bad taste in my mouth as it stands. Give some of these other characters a chance, and let Popo and Nana rest until the next game.


Sceptile Prediction: 18.75%
Dear Arceus above, I hope I'm low on this one. I can't shake the feeling I'm about to see another character with huge potential get marked down because someone else from the same series is already in.

Please remember, guys: the dev team doesn't think in terms of reps.


Nominations: Paper Mario x5
A character that could actually bring a lot of new ideas to the game...that unfortunately gets a lot of grief by people that assume he'd be a clone...

interestingly, that's not the biggest issues of Paper Mario.....i thought it was, but it apparently isn't.

It;s him being another mario. However, even then, I learned that it's not as big as people make it out to be...also, I know it's based on repping logic so....

Just feeling to throw this out there because it's weird honestly

 

[4theRECORD]

Oh, Ice Climbers...it pains me to put such a low score for these two.

Ice Climbers (Ice Climbers)

Chance:10%
I'm giving pretty low scores for a long-time veteran with very unique moves, but I have to. The only reason they were cut is because of technical issues, but unfortunately, this is a pretty big blow. I can't see Sakurai bothering with WiiU-exclusive DLC with his personality, and I can't see the fanbase reacting positively to it either. Some people are already losing their heads with Mewtwo and Lucas, what do you think will happen when there's version exclusive ones announced? Not going to be pretty.

Want:80%
Though personally, I think they should do it. Outside of Isaac, Ice Climbers are probably the most deserving characters for a slot in the roster right now. Their cut has resulted in a dissapearance of an entire IP(yeah it's one obscure game, but it's an IP) along with a very original moveset. While I never mained them in the past, I feel that their cut has resulted in a pretty open gap in the roster. Heck, I'm currently trying to main every single character in the game right now, I could go use the two for a spin.

Sceptile:7%
Well, it's a pokemon.

Nominations:
Lip (Panel de Pon) x5

 

[Kenith]

Ice Climbers:
Chance: 0.0001%.
Basically...

Chance: 20%
Popo and Nana got shafted this time around. They were originally planned to be in, as evidenced by the Ice Climber-themed content that still remains and the fact that their victory theme and crowd cheer are still in the games. But (someone correct me if I get any terms wrong) Nana's complicated AI proved too much for the 3DS' RAM to handle, and any time multiple sets of Ice Climbers were in play the game lagged to the point of unplayability. Sakurai wanted the roster to be the same in both versions, and so the duo was left off. To use a metaphor, it's as if they got injured and had to sit out this time.

But can the dev team solve the problems that held the Climbers down and rehab them in time for DLC? While it sounds easy on paper...the truth is more complicated than it seems, regardless of which option you look at. They could try to simply get Nana working in a way that doesn't overtax the 3DS...but doing so would be a time investment with an uncertain outcome. If they pulled it off, it'd be a success...but if they couldn't, they'd have a lot of wasted time on their hands with nothing to show for it. With development schedules as tight as they are, it could be too big of a blow for them to risk.

There's also another idea making the rounds: reducing them to a single Ice Climber, with Popo as half the costumes and Nana as the other half. It'd solve the very issue that prevented them from working in the 3DS version and still be a nod to their home game's single player mode. However, their nature as a duo character was their whole identity in Melee and Brawl. Not only would entire parts of their moveset have to be rewritten to work with one Climber, they'd be a hollow shell of what they once were. Not only would they not be as interesting, they wouldn't feel true to character any more...and we've seen Sakurai's worry of not being true to character be a big problem before.

Furthermore, what about Smash 5? It's almost certain the 3DS' successor will have the processing power to handle the Ice Climbers. Why would they change them now to make them DLC, knowing they'd have to change them back for the next game?

Finally, there's the third option: having them be exclusive to the Wii U version, or only available in the 3DS version to New 3DS owners. To be honest? This idea is ridiculous. Sakurai has said repeatedly that he does not want any characters exclusive to one version so that those who only own one version aren't left out. To act like he should throw that out just so one character can get special treatment!? It's...

...Okay, easy. This isn't the time or place to rant.

Can they still get in? Technically, yes. But the Ice Climbers have a real mountain to climb in order to make it, and there's no certainty there's even a path to the top to begin with.

My thoughts verbatim and with a helping of puns to boot! Thank you Delzethin, you work so I don't have to.
However I believe these things to completely damn the Ice Climbers from coming back as DLC.

Want: 98%.
We lost two whole universes during the transition from Brawl to Smash 4; I want them back. I like Ice Climber as a game and I like the characters from it. Plus, they were unique and endearing characters that have been around for two games, so I feel the roster isn't complete until they come back.
That being said, I'm knocking of two points for chain grabs.
------------------------------------------------------------
Sceptile prediction: 10%. This isn't a popular suggestion and I feel like people will overlook him.
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Nominations:
Jill Valentine x3
Wolf Link & Midna x2

 

[A Distant Demon]

Chance
.01%
Like ridley and chrom sakurai has explicitly said why they are out. They only have a chance in some turbo smash dx like umvc3 but well. . . . Not likely.

Want 50% veterans so they are ok.

As sopo negative 100
no. Ice climbers going solo defeats the purpose of ice climbers. Being 2 people is their thing and if you "just make them stronger" they would be extremely bland and terrible. I hate the idea with a passion.


Predictions sceptile
35% i thought i wqas being uber generous with climbers but it looks like im wrong.

Noms
2 wonder red
2 ridley
1 viridi

 

[Diddy Kong]

Sup guys?



Chances: 55%

I believe that Sakurai will do his best to try and bring the Ice Climbers back, as they according to him have a 'full functioning moveset'. So far, it seems that Sakurai is keen on adding back veterans as DLC. Mewtwo, Lucas, Roy, 99% sure we are getting Wolf as well... So Ice Climbers seem like an obvious choice to add back as DLC. And despite technical difficulties, I still believe Sakurai could make them work. Also on the 3DS. Am just believing Sakurai is stubborn enough to keep on trying untill he succeeds in implementing them, which could result in a SoPo appearance easily to.

Want: 25%

I accept that the Ice Climbers where cut far better than any other cut in the roster previously. They had ridiculous grab shenanigans, and that alone was a reason why I wanted both eskimos out pre-release. Yes, I actually wanted them gone. But am not opposed at all for their return, provided they can balance the grabbing stuff. Still, easily the veterans am least excited about for their potential return as DLC. Their game also wasn't that amazing... I'm still somewhat baffled by their inclusion in Melee, especially since made it in.

 

[MacDaddyNook]

Ice Climbers' Chanes: 30%

Unfortunately, this is one of the casualties of having the same roster between both versions. While I rather see them as a Wii U exclusive if they could work in 8-player mode, and I do have the 3DS version more available than the Wii U one, it'd just have too much backlash from those only with the 3DS version to try. The only way I could see them getting in is if they dumbed them down to the way Rosalina's Luma works, but that may take away too much from them. I wish it weren't so, but it doesn't look good for these two.


Ice Climbers' Want (Duo): 99%
After Snake, the Ice Climbers are the only other veteran I want to see back that hasn't already done so. Their duo mechanic made them fun and memorable, it's a shame to not have it after weaker systems pulled it off. I'm in the minority, but I also enjoyed their stages and hope we could get those even if the characters can't make it back.

Ice Climbers' Want (Solo): 0%
I'm sorry to say, but being a pair is what made these characters and they just wouldn't be fun as a solo act.


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Sceptile's Chances: 10%

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Nominate
Wonder Red x5
(guess I'll jump on the bandwagon, the game was fun and he'd be kinda cool)

 

[Sid-cada]

Ice Climbers

Chance - 50% - I don't know. It's entirely dependent on if they can fix the technical issues and if they are going to fix the issues of having two charaters at once. While I'm certain that if they work hard enough, I'm not certain if they have the motivation to fully go through with it. A vets a vet, though.

Want - 100% - Brawl's roster was near perfict in my eyes, and I think they were good enough to keep. They had a cleaver idea behind them, and I think it's worth keeping. I'm assuming this is for them together, because if they're solo it's a flat 0.

And by the way, THERE ARE NO MORE CHAIN GRABS! That should put them closer to beatable.


Sceptile Predictions - 13.48% - Finishing the starter trio seems important, but many say we have enough Pokemon already.

Nominations
New Guidance Conversations X3
Anna (FE) X2

 

[SL the Pyro]

Ice Climbers
The poor duo that got shafted not because of popularity or Nintendo or Sakurai, but hardware limitations, of all things.

Chance: 70%
Compared to most of the entrants and even the veterans, I'd say Popo and Nana have a pretty high chance of returning if the dev team can get the 3DS issues sorted out.

+Popularity: Great bergs of ice are they ever wanted. They've been a series mainstay since Melee and were still incredibly popular in Brawl, so people thought they'd be a shoe-in for 3DS/Wii U. People were so disheartened by their non-reveal that Sakurai had to make a personal statement about why, which says something pretty powerful about the fandom's love for the characters.
+Lifetime: Circa 1985, and one of the first NES games released. They could pass for a Retro representative if Mr. Game and Watch hadn't taken the spotlight.
+Exposure: Being an early NES/Famicom game, the Ice Climbers are known worldwide, though they didn't achieve their huge fandom until their appearance in Melee.
+Playability: A no-brainer, the Ice Climbers already have a unique moveset to bring over from the previous two Smash games.
+Relevance: As veterans, this is also a given.

Cons:
-Legacy: For all their love, the Ice Climbers still only have one game (two if you count the arcade port) that's simply been ported to new systems as necessary. They're honestly more known for their Smash characterization than they are for their own game.
-Hardware: As Sakurai said a while ago, the Ice Climbers were intended to be in the final release of the game, and were even fully playable in the Wii U version with no issues whatsoever - it was the old 3DS that held them back. He said that given enough time it might have been fixable, but...
-Priority: ...with the production deadline steadily approaching and well over half of the game still left to work on, Popo & Nana eventually just fell off the schedule. Though granted, with the advent of DLC there is no longer a deadline, so Nintendo can give a more thorough try at fixing the 3DS' problems.

Want: 100%
I admit to being a bit biased since the Ice Climbers were my mains back in Melee, but really, they should have been (and were planned to be) in 3DS/Wii U to begin with before the 3DS started throwing a fit. If Nintendo were given a chance to right things, I'd be more than happy if they took it.

----------

Sceptile
Prediction: 15%
Perhaps I'm just out of the loop, but I don't see what the big deal about Sceptile is. He honestly comes across as an oddball choice.

----------

Nominations: Bayonetta x5

 

[Rockaphin]

Ice Climbers:
Chance: 20%

It's possible that they can find a way to get them to work, but I think it's a little more unlikely at the moment.

Want: 1%

I never liked them, and being chained was more annoying than anything. That wouldn't happen in this iteration due to the new grabbing mechanics, but I never really liked them or their game in the first place.

Nominations:
Ken Alt x5

 

[Knux27]

Ice Climbers

Chance: 50% It is only a 50% chance because Sakurai said they couldn't over come the technical limitations on the 3DS in time and that since the ICs weren't in any new games, that they sadly weren't given a high priority in trying to get them working on 3DS. Sakurai is the man that got a fighting game at 60FPS in 3D, almost all of the time, something no other fighting game can do.(Tekken 3D does not have 3D while online). If Sakurai can over come the tech difficulties, then they will be added back definitely, maybe even for free.

Want: 90% for IC, 0% for SOPO, unless Nana is defeated in battle and SOPO pulls of an amazing comeback in battle.

Wonder Red X5

 

[lightdasher]

Ice Climbers
Chance : 55%

It all comes down to fixing the problem with the 3DS, the way I see it that it was more of a time problem than anything, I mean Sakurai at one point did say that characters from melee were impossible, then we got Mewtwo anyway

Want : 100%
They're my babies.

Sceptile preciction : 15%-ish?

Nominations:
Lip (Panel de Pon) x5

 

[BluePikmin11]

Another quick rating for me.
Ice Climbers Chance: 50%
I'm pretty neutral for the most part, as long as the New 3DS exists, I can't really dismiss the Ice Climbers completely, this is probably the first time Sakurai has heard the New 3DS, so he may take advantage of adding IC (and the Chorus Kids), the only sacrifice would be that they will probably won't be used online, but I don't think it's much of a problem really.
Ice Climbers Want: 50%
I like the idea of a duo character and love the retro vibe that comes from them and I have mained them before, but I wouldn't really care if they didn't come back, at least I understand the situation.

Sceptile Prediction:
2.45% He's probably going to be way lower than the last rating from the last RTC game.

Nominations:
x5 Young Link

Want - 49% - An all projecitle moveset would be difficult to pull off, as even Mega Man has a few melee moves in his butster. He doesn't have any sort of melee capablilites, and thus would be compleatly destroyed by any reflector. I don't have any sort of attachment of my charater, and my percived ballence is not looking healthy. I say nay, though he might earn that spot.

http://cavestory.wikia.com/wiki/Blade

It's one of the only melee weapons in the game, he can use this if other weapons don't fit for certain attacks.

 

[Nintendotard]

Finally, the famous pair of the Ice Climbers!

Before we start I'd like to address this genius post:

"I had the team innovate a lot to try and get them working, but we had to give up eventually."

This can in fact mean two things, either they gave up because there wasn't enough time, or they tried their hardest and it just did not work. And i think the latter would've taken up quite a lot of the development schedule of the game. Which is why i'm leaning towards the fact that they just did not have enough time.

I think Sakurai and the team should find a way to get Ice Climbers working on the 3DS version first, before they make any drastic decisions like making them exlusive DLC for Wii U and New 3DS. While that's not the worst idea, it's not the best one either. It would cause a weird split in the userbase of the game, like, how will the Ice Climbers work Online if they can only be played with the New 3DS? So if exclusive DLC were to become a decision, i put my money on Wii U exclusive DLC.

If Exclusive DLC were to become a thing for them, only a vocal minority would complain about it. But let's be real here, this happens with almost everything. Need i remind you, there were a group of people that protested against For Glory mode when it was first announced. So no doubt Exclusive DLC would cause the same uproar, but it'll die down eventually as people just get over it. Besides, i've actually seen more people want Ice Climbers as Wii U/New 3DS exclusive than naysayers.

What i really want to happen though, is that Smash for 3DS, the game as a whole, gets an upgraded re-release version made specifically for the New 3DS. With features and content that wasn't possible on the original 3DS, you can clearly see Smash for 3DS pushes the handheld to it's limit. (Extremely long boot up loading time, Home menu during game takes much longer than other games, Web Browser not available during game and etc.) Yet, it is still extremely far away from the Wii U version in what it offers. A new re-release version for New 3DS would be a great value, as it would make the handheld counterpart of the game much closer to the Wii U version. Upgraded re-releases is in Bandai Namco's blood, too. This would be the best way to get the Ice Climbers back. because the roster parity still consists within this decision.

But, i have been thinking a lot about this. What way is there to implement a working Ice Climbers to the 3DS without drastically changing them from their previous incarnations, such as splitting them into a solo Climber? Like i elaborated on earlier, the problem is more than likely the AI's they have. So i've come up with a concept that they could possibly use to fuse Popo and Nana's AI into one. Duck Hunt Duo is proof you can have two fully interactive character models in one AI.

I made these illustrations for my concept:

Tie Popo and Nana together. This way, they can share the same AI and are always in sync. Sure, this would eliminate the gimmick of Nana desyncing from Popo at times. But their core moveset would still be the very same.

^ How this execution would make them look during gameplay, Nana stands behind Popo instead of next to him like in previous games. To make sure you can see her visually, because they are completely in sync and Nana no longer desyncs during quick movements.

Anyway, that's just what i think, and what i came up with. I may be wrong in the end, but it's a risk i'm willing to take.

This is the most genius idea that I have ever seen for these two to destroy the truth of them being a problem on the 3DS. They would probably act more like how Rosalina and Luma, but if Nana dies she is taking Popo with her because they are attached by belay.

Chances: 55%
- Moving on, if Ice Climbers are now a priority for DLC, they probably started working out some of their kinks as people have mentioned on the 3DS to get them working. Everyone suggests a Solo Popo, but I feel like that change is way too big. While in the original game they never really worked together, that is their gimmick in this game and it is a wonderful one at that. I wanna remain optimistic. They could be one of the last veteran DLC we get (the only ones remaining if the Roy and Ryu leak is true would be the Pokemon, Wolf [who is basically a shoe in a this point] and Snake)

Want: 100%
- While I never mained the characters, it was sad to see them scrapped due to the annoying restrictions in the 3DS. But alas, I promised myself if they were to make it in I would main them. Its sad to see a member of the Smash family get left out. People were outraged with Mewtwo gone for a game in between and people were mad/sad about Lucas, Wolf, and Snake (who was the one most expected be out at least) when they were gone and now Lucas is back and people are overjoyed for his return. Let's get this OG duo back in the game, plz Sakurai.

Predictions
Sceptile - 17%

Nominations
Paper Mario x5

Daisy is so far behind, might as well vote for the Mario character that only ignorant people would call a Mario clone. srynotsry

 

[Kalimdori]

Don't want my 3DS to Freeze: Ice Climber Chances
Chance: 0%
"Hmm, should I add the Ice Climbers who would pretty much require a rewrite of some of the fundamental programming of the game just so they can work in some respect, which in itself could cause trouble in other fields of the game? And what about WiiU? 8-player smash can't handle coin battles as it is, and since we didn't have Nana and Popo to worry about while developing this, we don't know what extra problems could be caused through this. And they're a franchise we probably won't be profiting from in the near future, so I'm not sure if they really need that much representation. "
"...Let's see who else is on the list..."

Please, guys. A bit of realism here. Ice Climbers will require a pretty substantial game change to work on regular 3DS consoles. And if you ask me, N3DS and WiiU exclusives are worse than just WiiU exclusives when it comes to characters. They don't have any chance as DLC. The Smash team won't want to rewrite fundamental game code just to give a small portion of folk Ice Climbers back. And enough of you are saying you'd be unhappy with one Ice Climber on their own, so that isn't an option either. Hell, Sakurai himself would refuse to take away half a character if he has to include it. It's all or nothing. We'll see what happens when Smash V rolls around. Here and now, they have a snowball's chance in hell. 0%.

"Asks for realism"

"Gives an absolute zero in regards to chance"

 

[Sarki Soliloquy]

"Hey guys.
It's the Ice Climbers.
Now all you have to do
Is get rid of your friends
by the ice bridge."

Spoiler: Captain Hotcakes's Ratings History (as of 4/28/15)

Character Chance Ratings

1: Wolf - 97.5%
2: Rayman - 60%
3: Snake - 55%
4: Inkling - 50%
5: Krystal - 45%
6: Dixie Kong - 43%
7: Impa - 40.5%
8: Ice Climbers - 30%
8: Captain Toad - 30%
9: Quote - 21.5%
10: Shantae - 20.5%
11: Shovel Knight - 20%

Character Want Ratings

1: Shovel Knight - 100%
1: Wolf - 100%
2: Shantae - 87%
3: Snake - 85%
3: Impa - 85%
4: Ice Climbers - 80%
5: Inkling - 30%
6: Rayman - 25%
7: Quote - 23%
8: Krystal - 20%
8: Dixie Kong - 20%
9: Captain Toad: 5.5%

Abstains (Inactivity)

King K. Rool
Banjo-Kazooie
Isaac

Abtsains (Indifference)

n/A

RATINGS

THIS DAY WILL COUNT AS A DUO CHARACTER, NOT A SOLO. SAVE THAT FOR ANOTHER DAY.

Ice Climbers

Chance - 30%: The Ice Climbers have been the only Melee vets to get cut in SSB4 and have been put in a very astute place in development hell due to Sakurai's concerns about fairness between versions & the functionality of both.

It's evident the Ice Climbers were planned to return because their victory theme and fanfare remain in both versions. Along with that, their trophy file is classified under their own series, IIRC. Looks like Sakurai and his team had invested a fair amount of work into them. But in order to not violate the terms of this cross-system installment, Sakurai unfortunately had to kill his darlings. I'm sure he was hesitant too and tested out solutions with their CPU function on the 3DS. But what we can really conclude is that none of them had the best pay-off. Looks like it was for the better of us not to deal with a partially broken game on launch.

Some commentators have interpreted Sakurai's Famitsu interview concerning the ice-bonking Inuits as having an element of reduced return priority combined with 3DS technical limitations. We really don't know the extent of the work that was done compared to other fighters, but if this was in the way, then Sakurai wouldn't want one character to lag back an already strenuous and physically-tasking development process, especially one that's taken more of a retro fan favorite vibe than one who has a larger fanbase with an upcoming or notable game.

In the face of all this adversity, perhaps there's still some hope that they can return through the Fighter Ballot. Many fans have proposed solutions to work around their duo gimmick:

• Perhaps the easiest solution would be to have Popo/Nana as a solo character and divide their alt costumes between both Climbers. It makes sense too if they rework their specials for solo play and this already happens when Nana is KO'd in Melee & Brawl. But they would just be a hallow shell of their former selves, which goes against Sakurai's preferences on a character's faithfulness. Surely this would be an option that would alienate many fans.
• You could have them run 30fps on the 3DS. Yet their animations would have an awkward, choppy quality and it still doesn't address multiplying them x4, though it may reduce the lag.
• You could make them exclusive for New 3DS owners with that system's increased processor. Frankly, I can see Nintendo doing this to push the New 3DS further. Yet Sakurai knows better that this would play on an element of DLC where even a miniscule fraction of players are sticks in the mud and will miss out on new content. That is not a ethical thing to do to consumers. And even then, we don't know if the processing boost is enough to make them work. You could probably do some conjectural math to figure out the minimum requirements in the current game and maybe estimate character file sizes. Yet we have little to no data on the Ice Climbers to help this. We can really only go by their Brawl data.
• You could tweak Nana's AI so she can't desync anymore and have her mimic Popo's actions by a reduced time, almost creating a dual-striker character. If you want a comparison, this would be identical to Taokaka's Almost Becoming Two! in BlazBlue or Zero's Sougenmu in (U)MvC3. This is similar to @J04KlM's post quoted by @ Nintendotard above. Considering Smash Bros. engine makes combos more risky and less practical than in the aforementioned two games, this might be difficult to translate into a viable moveset. Not to mention this could alienate or even frustrate veteran Ice Climbers players. Personally, if you want to stay as close to the original characters as possible, this route seems the best.

All in all, there's probably a precedent of work to restart the Ice Climbers off of, the veteran demand will make them wanted for perpetuity, and the increased duration of dev time without release deadlines along with possible possibilities to rework them, the Ice Climbers still have a sliver of a chance. Whether it's the most likely is almost unanimously unlikely.

Once a Smash Brother, always a Smash Brother. If it was just too much stress on the developers' part, then maybe the Ice Climbers will return in SSB5 or maybe even SSB6, with more sophisticated hardware on handhelds than in this generation at that point. They could be the Mewtwo of their next game, being highly requested only to be revealed late into development or as DLC to the rejoice of fans worldwide. Their moveset has a good shelf life for that as it stands.

Want - 80%: Don't get me wrong, I would totally be satisfied if they came back. Hell, I rated Snake an 85%, so I'd be pretty welcome to the Icies too. Yet there's already tons of veterans and newcomers that I could do better with than beckon for their return after all we get. If I really wanted to play as them that badly, there's still Melee, Brawl, & Project M.

In fact, I think the Smash roster is becoming oversaturated as it is, and Sakurai already giving us back Lucas and most likely Wolf, & Roy reinforces that the (semi)-clones deserve not to be left behind. For the time being, this will remain my stance (except you Roy. Drop off the face of the roster along with your periphery Capcom lovechild.)

Honestly, I think Smash might need to let go of many of the semi-clones and expendables that have stuck around for a while to pave more room for new characters. It's not helping that we can't let go, myself included. Besides, it leaves more reasons to go back to the older games casually & competitively.

Pay attention to my last paragraph for today's Chance rating. I feel like it might be best for Smash to cycle out characters like these for the sake of longevity. Ice Climbers and Snake seem to be the best choices for this thus far.

Compared to other requested cut veterans, Ice Climbers are still harder to implement with their workload, where it would be easier to get Wolf, Roy, or even Snake through.

And. For. The. Sake. OF. THE GODS, would you please remove Wobbling from their repertoire!? Tweak that **** out and maybe I'd feel better taking them on in a For Glory 1v1 or tourney set!

PREDICTION

Sceptile

Chance - 45.67%
Want - 60.58%

NOMINATIONS

*Concept: No DLC Characters After Fighter Ballot x3
Galacta Knight x2

Also, congrats if we get our first concept voice the day after tomorrow!

 

[Pureownege75]

Ice Climbers Chance: 25%
So obviously they were cut due to them not being able to work on the 3DS. That said we aren't entirely sure on the details. Either A, Sakurai REALLY tried and simply couldn't make it work, or B, it was possible, but there wasn't enough time to work it out, and their status as characters from a dead franchise left them with little priority. I personally tend to lean towards B, but anything is possible. DLC arguably has an infinite amount of time, so if this was the case, I'm sure they could really iron them out. However there are other issues, such as 8-Player Smash. I know people say you can have them disabled in that mode, but that is something Sakurai would never allow. If they get enough votes, a single-climber could become a possibility, and that's what I think might be their best hope. Another talked about situation is having version exclusive characters, which I feel Nintendo doesn't want to do, as it'd probably piss off more people than it'd please. There are a lot of options for them, but all of them involve some sort of handicap, which is why I think they might just hold off, unless they do incredibly well in the ballot

Want: 50%
I do miss them, but not quiet as much as I originally expected. I'd love to see them back, but when I'm playing I rarely think "man I miss the Ice Climbers". I'm not outright opposed to getting a single Ice Climber, but I'm pretty content with just waiting until Smash 5 for their very likely return. If they can get it to work, awesome, glad to have them back. If not, well it stinks but I'm not losing sleep over it.

So, quick question. Would anyone have cared if the Wii U version had one or two extra characters that the 3DS did not?

The reason why they didn't makes sense, but at the same time, most people are more upset at the fact that the 3DS version held back the Wii U version. Would you have cared if the Ice Climbers were in Wii U but not 3DS?

Would not have cared in the slightest, so long as the 3DS version didn't get any exclusives of it's own. Everyone knows the Wii U version is the definitive version, and most people who own both versions play the Wii U version far more. It'd definitely piss off the people who don't own Wii Us, but me personally, I'm all for it

Sceptile Prediction: 30%

Nominations
RH Character x3
Themed Stage Packs x2

 

[ZecaOMestre]

Ice Climbers

Chance: 50%
We all know about ICe Climbers technical problems and stuff. But most people who are rating tham as having absolute no chance are not considering that Sakurai said he didn't trying way too hard to make them work because they hadn't had a game in a while and he prioritized other characters. Maybe now that there's no deadline he can come back to the climbers with all the time in the world and make them work properly in the 3DS.

Want: 80%
I'll never not want a unique veteran, even though I didn't play as them that much

Sceptile Prediction: 12%

Nominations:
Chorus Men x5

 

[Nimbostratus]

Ice Climbers
Chance- 11%
* 5% that they'll get to work and fix the 3DS issues knowing the Ice Climbers' popularity.
* 5% that Nana and Popo will be palette swaps for a single Ice Climber
* 1% that Sakurai will go back and make them a Wii U exclusive.
Want- 100%
Screw the 3DS I loved playing as them in both Melee and Brawl. Despite having legitimate reasons as to why they were removed, this was by far the most heartbreaking cut I've experienced.

Sceptile Predictions- 13%
Nominations:
Wonder Red x5

 

[TheBeardedPunisher]

Ice Climbers

Chance: 70%

While the 3DS was a major issue for them, we still don't know the full story. They outright stated they eventually gave up and they still had other parts of the game to work on. The Ice Climbers are more than possible with enough time and the right modifications. Also, there is no solid evidence that they can't be implemented in the Wii U version. All talk about that is pure speculation. Without a strict deadline to meet, and Sakurai's ambitions to please his fans, DLC is certainly more in their favor than adding them to the vanilla product was. If you're planning on voting for Ice Climbers or really want them back in, but you're still skeptical on the possibility, please don't hesitate to vote for them if you want to. No vote is a wasted vote. Every vote matters.

Want: 100%

During the time of Smash 4 speculation, I wanted Mewtwo to be back more than any other character. I went with the mindset that all my current mains were safe. It was the most devastating thing when I found out that the Ice Climbers were cut and why. Because of the inferior version having difficulty getting them to work and in return punished the perfectly viable console version. Now that Mewtwo is finally back, the Ice Climbers are now the character I want to be back more than any other. If I can't get their traditional playstyle, I will be perfectly willing to get them back where they either lose the ability to desynch, have a spawn/despawn mechanic, or solo Ice Climber with a revamped moveset (I'm not 100% against SoPo, nor am I 100% for it. But I can still accept it IF it were a last LAST resort). Who knows? Maybe Sakurai will surprise us with a Sopo that we never could've imagined. But I still firmly believe that they can come back as a duo still. If Sakurai EVER changes his mind on identical rosters, I think an exception can be made with Wii U exclusive Ice Climbers. That said, I have faith that Sakurai and his team are capable and willing to give us what we desire, and we need our voices to be heard now more than ever. While many people have given up already, I haven't. Smash is my passion and I will strive for what I believe in.

 

[Starcutter]

Ice Climbers: 75% as in the next likely brawl vet after Wolf. once Wolf is added, this will raise about 10%.

There are a few reasons why I'm voting them this high.
1- Supposedly not a lot of time was spent making them work on the 3DS, If they are highly requested they will likely find some sort of solution.
2- New 3DS. Ice Climbers could be exclusive to Wii U and New 3DS. Locally, the new 3DS could have Ice Climbers disabled for playing against regular 3DS users, Online could be like how Mario Kart 8 handles DLC.
3-Pretty high on the list in terms of wanted DLC characters. I saw a poll where Ice Climbers were the second most wanted Vet to return, counting mewtwo.

Want: 100% Them in this game would be VERY interesting. There won't be any chaingrabs, and likely no sort of Wobbling, so they'd have to rely on desyncs. I would love seeing an iteration of Ice Climbers like that, from a gameplay perspective.

Sceptile prediction -> 12%

Nominations: Layton x5

 

[LasermasterA]

Ice Climbing time! I missed Quote but I would have given him a 10%, more than Shantae and Shovel Knight.

Chance: 15%
+Veterans
+Different
+Were initially planned
+Heavily demanded

- Didn't work on 3DS
- Will probably not work on 8-Man Smash
- Sakurai deemed as insignificant enough to not work on more

Although the minuses might seem less in number, they hold much more weight as I doubt Sakurai would work on characters on that had a hard time working initially for DLC, and that might not even work now.

Want: 20%
They are veterans so I don't have a problem with them returning. Not really keen for them as I never played as them but I can understand where their fans are coming from so I won't mind them. I doubt their reappearance though in this generation of Smash.

Chance for Sceptile: 15%
Likely to be the third of the trio, if a grass Pokemon is released, but I still doubt it.


Nominations:
I will help today -
Wonder Red x5

 

[BandanaWaddleDee]

(From now on, every one of my ratings will have at least one pun in them)
Ice Climbers Chance: 35%
If it weren't for the 3DS limitations, their chances would be at least a 99%. Unfortuntately, the hardware limitations and lack of priority seemed to have ICED their chances. If they find a workaround, they're in. If not... they won't.

Want: 80%
In Brawl and Melee I kinda sucked with the Icies, but I had a lot of fun playing as them and I hope they return.

Sceptile Predictions:
Chance: 29%
Want: 40%

Nominations:
9-Volt x4
New Earthbound and F-Zero Stages on Wii U x1

 

[Scamper52596]

Ice Climbers
Chance: 42%
This is basically a matter of whether or not Sakurai and his team can get them working on the 3DS, and also if they're willing to take that time to do so. I imagine they're on Sakurai's mind if anything since we seem to be getting a lot of vets back as DLC, but he also might wait to possibly bring them back in Smash 5. It's difficult to rate accordingly because we don't know the whole picture, but I think it's safe to say that they have a shot. I'll give the ice climbing duo a modest 42% chance likelihood.
Only time will tell when it comes to these little guys...

Want: 60%
I wouldn't mind having the Ice Climbers back as it was pretty weird to see them go. They were never my go to character(s), but if they make it back I'll give them a try to see if I like them in this iteration of Smash. And as always I'd love to see them come back just to make the fans happy.

Prediction - Sceptile: 13.7%

Nominations:
x3 Toon Zelda
x2 Tetra

 

[jahkzheng]

Well here's an interesting character to discuss. Let's see if these climbers can clamber out of this crevasse of confused coding on a constricting console~

Here's my picture of the categories I'll use for assessing characters again again...

These points are for making a best estimate of their chances, although the weight of each category is still unknown at this time. Other unforeseen factors could keep the character from being added. I'll likely post this at the start of all my assessments.

Ice Climbers

Popularity
As vets, the Ice Climbers are a popular choice for Smash 4. They just aren't as popular as some. This could be a combination of them not being as popular as some characters to begin with and the fact that many people may have accepted the fact that they wont happen due to the 3DS's limitations and Sakurai's vow to keep the rosters the same. This sentiment isn't so overwhelming that the ICs aren't often top 10 wanted DLC fighter material, but they are mostly around 3rd or 4th most wanted returning vet with even a character like Roy often beating them in requests despite their uniqueness. The demand is still there all the same, but it's clearly been hampered by one major limitation and they are not the first choice for an additional returning vet by any standards.

Importance
Ice Climbers are characters in an eponymously named game released for NES. The game wasn't all together notable and didn't have the following of what would become major franchises in that era, or even other one shot games like Duck Hunt. ICs may have fallen into Nintendo history trivia obscurity if not for Sakurai. Now one could argue that their "iconicness" grew out of the success of Melee rather than their own game. Basically, the Ice Climbers are important as vets and as a "retro" representative in Smash. Duck Hunt has fulfilled the latter, but ICs are still fixed in our memories as Melee and Brawl characters that many wish had returned.

Uniqueness
Ice Climbers were very unique... perhaps too unique for Smash 4. One of their greatest assets became their downfall in a odd twist. No other character had quite the duality of ICs. This aspect of their character was apparently too much for the 3DS to handle however so the idea of adding them to the roster was scrapped. A character like Rosalina apparently used much less complex algorithms and a much simpler model for her "partner", and was doable as a result. Other than their most unique feature, they also had the very unique attribute of being able to use ice attacks and sometimes freeze opponents. Assuming the climbing team we're used to can't be implemented in Smash 4, there's also always the chance that Sakurai could try representing them in a "solo" fashion. The single Ice Climber could still be very unique, though just not quite the singular novelty of the "team Ice Climbers". Not to mention, Sakurai has expressed a hesitance in separating the duo. When you think about it, it would feel damaging to the character to remove their most unique attribute... but is it worth not having the character at all? One would hope the limitations weren't so insurmountable and the Ice Climbers could come back as we remember them, but it's hard to say just what is possible.

Relevance
Ice Climbers are as relevant as their Brawl appearance. They're a retro rep and as such never got in the roster on relevancy to begin with. Amusingly, their bid for inclusion in Smash 4 is due to their previous Smash appearances. Sakurai made them relatively relevant again and now has to deal with people being nostalgic about their Melee and Brawl appearances and wanting them back. It's quite easy to say that if ICs were never vets, we'd probably almost never hear anything about them in regards to Smash. They'd be the character that one weird guy wanted for some reason, heh.

Representation
Ice Climbers were the sole representatives of their game and represented a different era of gaming, an early era. Duck Hunt has sort of taken their place in representing that era of gaming via an arguably more popular game of the time. Duck Hunt also has quite the unique moveset as well, though not nearly as unique as the ICs were. Still, ICs rep not just retro gaming but their own game. Their vet status has marked a precedent for Ice Climber being represented by the Ice Climbers. Now it feels like there's an empty space in the roster even if we might not care otherwise if not for their vet status. I'll just say "sure", it would be nice for Ice Climber to be represented again... and I'm not entirely set on them being a pair still or functioning like they did. They were kind of broken tbh.

Limitations
One big one. They apparently wouldn't work on the 3DS. To what extent they wouldn't work is unknown but it was enough to get them cut. They also have the less real limitations of being arguably replaced by Dunk Hunt as a retro rep, and having that as one of their only reasons to be on the roster to begin with. Of course, vet status and established uniqueness has mostly erased those "less real limitations". It's still odd that the IC's most unique feature, their duality, is really all that's keeping them out. Apparently this unique attribute is so attached to them that there's no way to add them without it? I can definitely see why Sakurai and fans wouldn't want to remove it, but in doing so they've apparently sacrificed the character. Maybe it can still happen in a more limited capacity or we'll just have the accept ICs in a totally different way to see them included. Either way, I see ICs inclusion as being difficult and the end result is likely to be something at least a little different than we're used to, and at most a representation very much different from what we're used to. I've nearly eliminated the concept that ICs could be Wii U exclusives from consideration because that's simply something I don't see Sakurai changing his mind on. It's a matter of principle for him.

Final Assessment

Chance: 28%

I think ICs have similar chances as Snake. That is to say, it's really hard to get a clear grasp on it due to all the unanswered questions about both characters status. Both are unique cut vets however, and get a boost from that distinction. Snake has the third party limitation that's a big deal due to the unknown status of Konami. He edges ICs in popularity in most cases however, and he's arguably just as relevant, though that's not saying much. ICs have hardware limitations with the 3DS, but we don't know just how bad it is. They'd likely want to be more balanced anyways and depending on how much Sakurai is willing to change them and how bad the limiations were, we could see them back. Snake is fairly "portable" on the other hand due to not needing much changed at all for his possible Smash 4 transition. Think I'll give ICs nearly the same odds as Snake though when I consider all the variables.

Want: 38%

I was never a huge ICs fan to begin with, but they were very unique and for the sake of their fans I'll give them a bit more than I might otherwise. There's a few of newcomers I'd rather have first however.

~~~~

Seems I've helped the Sceptile fans get to their character next. Time to see how the thread will predict their chances etc...

Predictions for Sceptile

Chance: 17.7%
Want: 29.9%

~~~~

Continuing to make sure that "Any NPC becomes playable" request happens before Ridley.

4 Points to *Concept: Any NPC becomes playable*
1 Point to Bayonetta?

 

[Erimir]

Ice Climbers

Basically, that's the biggest factor for them. How easy is it to solve those technical difficulties? Sakurai's comments imply that they may be surmountable. But the ICs weren't a priority, so they didn't spend a lot of time on it.

But just because they can probably be overcome doesn't mean that it's worth it to them to do it. Their technical difficulties may require more development work than most DLC - it's possible, for example, that it would require contributions from developers who wouldn't be required for a normal character since there may be highly technical issues (game engine, memory management, or whatever) that aren't relevant to typical character design. They will cost more to develop. Wolf, for example, pretty much doesn't require anything that's not already in the game (obviously he has his own animations and hitboxes and such though) - he has no highly unusual attributes.

That is balanced against how many people want them back, and how many will pay for the DLC. They are among the most requested characters, it seems, but not nearly as high as you might expect given their Melee veteran status. Part of the issue there, I think, is that while there were some top tournament players who used them for the wobbles and such, for other people they were difficult to use, and chain grabs are very much an unfun mechanic. So their appeal outside of that group was not as high. Honestly I don't know many people who were into them outside of the hardcore community, and even some people I know there don't like them. Obviously with the changes made to grabs, wobbling probably wouldn't be possible, so they could be rebalanced to be played in a more straightforward fashion. There's also the fact that, as Sakurai said, they have no upcoming games. And they don't really have much of a fanbase outside of the Smash community. So how many copies will they sell? I don't know. I think it may be more limited sales than characters that have more Smash-independent appeal (Mewtwo, Ryu, K Rool and such) or are more fun for the average player (Mewtwo, Lucas, Wolf, etc.).

Ice Climber chances: 10%
If they weren't worth getting to work in the two years or so that Smash 3DS was being developed, they may not be worth it for DLC. Then again, the ROI on developing a single character is higher for DLC than the initial roster. 51 characters for $40 or $60, so $0.78-$1.17 per character... and characters aren't even all of the content, so it's actually even less! Compared to $5 per character for DLC. Other factors move those numbers around of course, but it's profitable at a lower level of sales is the point. That said, they probably can make more money from other characters. And Ice Climbers can always come back in Smash 5 (in fact I expect it) and by then they might make more of a splash when they do so.

Even so, there's a decent chance they make it work.

Ice Climbers want: 15%
Tradition is all they have going for them for me. I never really liked playing with them, I don't like them much as characters. They are kinda boring despite their unique gimmick. Of all the Brawl cuts, they are the ones I want back the least.

Sceptile Prediction: 8%

Nominations:
5x Simon Belmont

 

[AreJay25]

Ice Climbers
Chance: 10%
Unless Sakurai manages to magically make 3DS limitations go away, or unless he just decides to make them exclusively on the New 3DS (which isn't very likely), they aren't coming back.

Want: 10%
Never really cared for them to be honest. I feel sorry for those who liked/mained them, but I can live without them.

Prediction
Sceptile: 10%
I don't see any real reason to add him into the game. I think I'll address that when the time comes.

 

[IvanQuote]

For the Ice Climbers, one way to remix the set is to have it only as one Ice Climber except during certain attacks. For example, when charging a smash attack all the way, the second climber materializes like an assist trophy and greatly boosts damage and knock back more than most characters' charges. The specials can remain the same, with the other ice climber coming in for all of them. The grabs could be reworked to look cooler (ex. Up throw is that the solo Ice Climber throws the foe forward a set distance, at which point the other appears where the foe is thrown and smashes them upwards). For the final smash, along with the glacier, they revert to their previous duo moveset, a la Giga Bowser, and gain a buff in strength.

 

[Arcanir]

Ice Climbers
Chances: 20%
To start off, I don't think them being Wii U exclusive or doing a SoPo thing is in the cards. In both cases, Sakurai could've done that to begin with, particularly since he knows that they're popular, and did neither. Additionally, the former case is problematic as Sakurai does not want to make exclusive characters, especially since it probably would alienate a large chunk of the SSB4 fanbase that only own the 3DS version. For the latter case, it goes against their core mechanic, which Sakurai has and will try to preserve with every character. So I don't think he'd change them to a SoPo just to get them back, he wants to bring them back as the way they were and the way fans remember them. Now, that already hurts their score, but what makes it lower is that, like N30N said, I honestly get the impression that Sakurai tried his hardest to get them in. From the sound of it, he didn't stop trying until he had them fully working on the Wii U version, which gives me the impression that they were at least decently far into development before they finally threw in the towel and gave into the limitations. So if that's the case, then it seems that their problem is far more troublesome then we actually know, and that means that unfortunately they are in a bad spot as potentially even with more time that DLC allows, they may still not be able to get them to work, especially with the other DLC characters that they have to work on as well.

So to summarize, they're an all-or-nothing type deal, either Sakurai gets them to work exactly as they were on both systems, or they don't return at all, and unfortunately the problems they have make me feel like it's leaning more towards the latter. Hopefully I'm wrong, but I wouldn't be surprised otherwise.

Want: 90%
Classic veterans that many love, it would be great to see them back.

 

[A Distant Demon]

These chance ratings seem ridiculously positive. Im seeing such high percents and its a bit baffling to me but ehh. opinions.

 

[IceBreakerXY]

ice climbers change:10%
This hurts me the roster really isn't the same with out them but we all know why there not here.So i'm not going into to detail why.I give them this much becuase i feel sakurai will try if given enough reason to.And there's no why sakurai would make them an ice climber and have them switch between genders.Sakurai loves keeping characters as close to there oringal source and that is nothing to the source.ice climbers IMO aren't happening

Ice climbers want:50%
Like i said the roster isn't the same without them but i don't really miss them.I never used them but i do miss seeing there face

Sceptile prediction:Our first pokemon. I say a out 15%

Slippy x 5

 

[MatvaradoxD]

Ice Climbers
Chance: 50%
I forgot if Sakurai was working on them or not but if he was and they weren't able to fix the 3DS issue then it wouldn't be fair placing them on the Wii U version only. I keep thinking since the New 3DS supports more features then they can easily have a chance there but then that would mean everyone would need a new 3DS and it'll be the same problem forcing people to buy another console. I just feel like they still have somewhat of a chance like the other returning characters only that they'll have the least priority and could probably be added towards the end as the last DLC offer. Nintendo can hear us out and I'm sure some people still have hopes they will be coming back right?

Want: 100%
They were great characters in Melee and honestly they opened doors for the rest of the newcomers we have today like Olimar and Rosalina how they were made as two-in-one characters. I thought Sakurai was awesome for reviving retro characters and I fell in love with the characters themselves. If they don't end up coming back then I guess til next time. They put up a good fight and they'll forever be remembered in Smash Bros History. However if they do come back...I'll be the happiest person ever lol.

Prediction
Sceptile: 15%

Nominations:
Mach Rider x5

 

[Delzethin]

These ratings seem ridiculously positive. Im seeing such high percents and its a bit baffling to me but ehh. opinions.

People prefer what they're familiar with, more or less.

 

[A Distant Demon]

People prefer what they're familiar with, more or less.

i meant the chance rating TBH
edited to reflect it

 

[Delzethin]

i meant the chance rating TBH
edited to reflect it

That itself could be veteran bias, to an extent. Whenever a character who's already been in gets rated, their scores are always higher than expected due to the assumption that being a veteran automatically makes them more important.

As we've seen, though, the truth is more complicated.

 

[Seanp12]

i meant the chance rating TBH
edited to reflect it

The chance ratings inevitably include a tinge of the want rating. Just like how a baseball players hitting stats inevitably effect the Golden Glove awards, even though they're supposed to be defensive awards.

 

[BKupa666]

Ice Climbers:

Chance - 25%
If a solution can be found, I expect them to return. However, I can't imagine the team didn't do everything in their power to find such a solution before cutting them in the first place. I don't see all that much changing now, and if they didn't want Wii U-exclusive characters, I doubt they'll have NX-exclusive ones either. What's more, much like with Ridley, I don't see people voting for them in high enough numbers to where they'd reverse themselves, having not choice but to find a solution. Wolf, Snake and Roy seem to all outstrip them as veterans, likely due to them having both interesting personalities and movesets instead of just the latter.

Want - 50%
They, along with Pit, are my least played character in Brawl, so I don't miss them terribly. That being said, their removal and the rationale behind it was ridiculously stupid. I wouldn't mind seeing them back for the sake of filling in the hole they left.

Sceptile Prediction - 10.5%

Nominate Chorus Kids/Men x5

 

[cephalopod17]

Ice Climbers

Chance: 40%
The technical limitations hurt them alot. We just don't have enough info on how far they got. I could see Sakurai revisiting them, but only if they are missed enough.

Want: 75%
Didn't use them much, but they didn't deserve to be cut. I'd much rather have the DLC used for a newcomer than them though.

Sceptile: 26%

Henry Fleming x3
Paper Mario x2

 

[sogeki]

"Hey guys.
It's the Ice Climbers.
Now all you have to do
Is get rid of your friends
by the ice bridge."

Spoiler: Captain Hotcakes's Ratings History (as of 4/28/15)

Character Chance Ratings

1: Wolf - 97.5%
2: Rayman - 60%
3: Snake - 55%
4: Inkling - 50%
5: Krystal - 45%
6: Dixie Kong - 43%
7: Impa - 40.5%
8: Ice Climbers - 30%
8: Captain Toad - 30%
9: Quote - 21.5%
10: Shantae - 20.5%
11: Shovel Knight - 20%

Character Want Ratings

1: Shovel Knight - 100%
1: Wolf - 100%
2: Shantae - 87%
3: Snake - 85%
3: Impa - 85%
4: Ice Climbers - 80%
5: Inkling - 30%
6: Rayman - 25%
7: Quote - 23%
8: Krystal - 20%
8: Dixie Kong - 20%
9: Captain Toad: 5.5%

Abstains (Inactivity)

King K. Rool
Banjo-Kazooie
Isaac

Abtsains (Indifference)

n/A

RATINGS

THIS DAY WILL COUNT AS A DUO CHARACTER, NOT A SOLO. SAVE THAT FOR ANOTHER DAY.

Ice Climbers

Chance - 30%: The Ice Climbers have been the only Melee vets to get cut in SSB4 and have been put in a very astute place in development hell due to Sakurai's concerns about fairness between versions & the functionality of both.

It's evident the Ice Climbers were planned to return because their victory theme and fanfare remain in both versions. Along with that, their trophy file is classified under their own series, IIRC. Looks like Sakurai and his team had invested a fair amount of work into them. But in order to not violate the terms of this cross-system installment, Sakurai unfortunately had to kill his darlings. I'm sure he was hesitant too and tested out solutions with their CPU function on the 3DS. But what we can really conclude is that none of them had the best pay-off. Looks like it was for the better of us not to deal with a partially broken game on launch.

Some commentators have interpreted Sakurai's Famitsu interview concerning the ice-bonking Inuits as having an element of reduced return priority combined with 3DS technical limitations. We really don't know the extent of the work that was done compared to other fighters, but if this was in the way, then Sakurai wouldn't want one character to lag back an already strenuous and physically-tasking development process, especially one that's taken more of a retro fan favorite vibe than one who has a larger fanbase with an upcoming or notable game.

In the face of all this adversity, perhaps there's still some hope that they can return through the Fighter Ballot. Many fans have proposed solutions to work around their duo gimmick:

• Perhaps the easiest solution would be to have Popo/Nana as a solo character and divide their alt costumes between both Climbers. It makes sense too if they rework their specials for solo play and this already happens when Nana is KO'd in Melee & Brawl. But they would just be a hallow shell of their former selves, which goes against Sakurai's preferences on a character's faithfulness. Surely this would be an option that would alienate many fans.
• You could have them run 30fps on the 3DS. Yet their animations would have an awkward, choppy quality and it still doesn't address multiplying them x4, though it may reduce the lag.
• You could make them exclusive for New 3DS owners with that system's increased processor. Frankly, I can see Nintendo doing this to push the New 3DS further. Yet Sakurai knows better that this would play on an element of DLC where even a miniscule fraction of players are sticks in the mud and will miss out on new content. That is not a ethical thing to do to consumers. And even then, we don't know if the processing boost is enough to make them work. You could probably do some conjectural math to figure out the minimum requirements in the current game and maybe estimate character file sizes. Yet we have little to no data on the Ice Climbers to help this. We can really only go by their Brawl data.
• You could tweak Nana's AI so she can't desync anymore and have her mimic Popo's actions by a reduced time, almost creating a dual-striker character. If you want a comparison, this would be identical to Taokaka's Almost Becoming Two! in BlazBlue or Zero's Sougenmu in (U)MvC3. This is similar to @J04KlM's post quoted by @ Nintendotard above. Considering Smash Bros. engine makes combos more risky and less practical than in the aforementioned two games, this might be difficult to translate into a viable moveset. Not to mention this could alienate or even frustrate veteran Ice Climbers players. Personally, if you want to stay as close to the original characters as possible, this route seems the best.

All in all, there's probably a precedent of work to restart the Ice Climbers off of, the veteran demand will make them wanted for perpetuity, and the increased duration of dev time without release deadlines along with possible possibilities to rework them, the Ice Climbers still have a sliver of a chance. Whether it's the most likely is almost unanimously unlikely.

Once a Smash Brother, always a Smash Brother. If it was just too much stress on the developers' part, then maybe the Ice Climbers will return in SSB5 or maybe even SSB6, with more sophisticated hardware on handhelds than in this generation at that point. They could be the Mewtwo of their next game, being highly requested only to be revealed late into development or as DLC to the rejoice of fans worldwide. Their moveset has a good shelf life for that as it stands.

Want - 80%: Don't get me wrong, I would totally be satisfied if they came back. Hell, I rated Snake an 85%, so I'd be pretty welcome to the Icies too. Yet there's already tons of veterans and newcomers that I could do better with than beckon for their return after all we get. If I really wanted to play as them that badly, there's still Melee, Brawl, & Project M.

In fact, I think the Smash roster is becoming oversaturated as it is, and Sakurai already giving us back Lucas and most likely Wolf, & Roy reinforces that the (semi)-clones deserve not to be left behind. For the time being, this will remain my stance (except you Roy. Drop off the face of the roster along with your periphery Capcom lovechild.)

Honestly, I think Smash might need to let go of many of the semi-clones and expendables that have stuck around for a while to pave more room for new characters. It's not helping that we can't let go, myself included. Besides, it leaves more reasons to go back to the older games casually & competitively.

Pay attention to my last paragraph for today's Chance rating. I feel like it might be best for Smash to cycle out characters like these for the sake of longevity. Ice Climbers and Snake seem to be the best choices for this thus far.

Compared to other requested cut veterans, Ice Climbers are still harder to implement with their workload, where it would be easier to get Wolf, Roy, or even Snake through.

And. For. The. Sake. OF. THE GODS, would you please remove Wobbling from their repertoire!? Tweak that **** out and maybe I'd feel better taking them on in a For Glory 1v1 or tourney set!

PREDICTION

Sceptile

Chance - 45.67%
Want - 60.58%

NOMINATIONS

*Concept: No DLC Characters After Fighter Ballot x3
Galacta Knight x2

Also, congrats if we get our first concept voice the day after tomorrow!

Your in depth suggestions are the best on this thread, no offense to anyone else. You should start your own thread discussing the chances of certain characters or something.

 

[NintenRob]

Ice Climbers: 20%

Nominate: fixing R.O.B.s Eyes in Multiplayer x5

 

[Deleted member]

Chance: 10%
Just a random low number since I honestly have no idea how much issues the 3DS causes and how they can be overcome, or if the team just wants to not bother with it and invest time+money in more do-able characters.

Want: 100%
I love my Ice Grabbers. So fun to play and hype to watch. Although if they have an infinite again it'll likely be patched out by making Nana being unable to grab until x amount of frames after Popo throws/grab releases.

Sceptile Prediction: 5%
I think people lost the whole trio thing post-release, and ORAS is less relevant by the day with the probable announcement of a new Pokemon title around the corner, judging by the 5 (maybe 6? I've lost count despite having the timeline from Gamestop) straight years of a main Pokemon game release. And more and more people have their thoughts on Pokemon being "we have enough", "we only needed Mewtwo", or "only 1 DLC Pokemon".

Nominations: Concept- Music DLC Pack x5