Rate their Chances: the DLC Edition. Day: 192: The final day


Smash Journeyman
Apr 4, 2015
Currently surviving the Working World
Alright, as much as I want to defend the Star Doll, I don't want the fight to continue. We're here to rate people, not "My opinion is better than yours"-

Just to settle it. Everyone have a different definition of "Cool". Extremmfan don't think Greninja and Geno are "Cool" worthy but Meta Knight or (sorry I don't recall the one you said) are. Great ! I respect it !
If for him, someone cool have to be mysterious, than we can't change it.
For some of us (me included), someone cool is by their personality.
For others, it's the physical appearance or abilities.
Maybe both of them ! Or all of them ! Or something completly different !
There's no definitive definition of "Cool". To each their own.
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Smash Champion
Feb 13, 2014

Chance: 25%

Want: 95%


Chance: 25%

Want: 95%

Well, 2/3 of my Brawl main was cut. Of course I want them back.

Concept Full Ken Alt x5

Deleted member

The Directory has been updated.

I will rate both of these characters at the same time.
Squirtle and Ivysaur
BOTH Chance: 1%

They are veterans and thus have some demand to return and they already have a moveset, which makes them easier to create as a fighter than working from scratch with a newcomer.
Unfortunately, these two veterans aren't highly demanded to return. It seems as though the demand for the Pokemon characters has died down with the return of Mewtwo, who was bar none the most requested Pokemon. Even then, Pokemon might be seen as having enough representation from Sakurai and thus he might not see any reason to include them.
They do have their merits, but I think they are hindered.

BOTH Want: 0%
I am perfectly fine without them. I think that it would be overkill if they returned.

Professor Layton Prediction: 12.38%
This prediction reminds me of a puzzle!

Nominations: DLC Music 5x

Diddy Kong

Smash Obsessed
Dec 8, 2004
Switch FC
:squirtle: :007:

Chances: 38%

Easily the most "iconic" Pokémon and veteran left to be included in terms of "Nintendo All Stars". Squirtle and Charizard where mostly chosen because of their popularity, Ivysaur was just tagged along to make the character Pokémon Trainer work. I still think this is a rather generous rating. I think it's a bigger possibility that we get Blastoise, who'd be a strongly revamped Squirtle, heavy and slower. :009:

Want: 90%

Yes, I liked Squirtle. Moreso than any Smash 4 newcomer. Would absolutely be thrilled to play Squirtle on his own, as much as I loved Charizard.

:ivysaur: :002:

Chances: 30%

Sadly lower, because Ivysaur is a lot less popular. Being a second stage evolution. Hence, I think it's far more likely than Squirtle that Ivysaur would return, fully evolved. :003:

Want: 85%

I liked Ivysaur to, but not so much as Squirtle and Charizard.


Smash Lord
Jan 19, 2013
Squirtle and Ivysaur

Both Chance - 2.5% - I don't see getting one without the other, so I'm grouping them together. Now that Mewtwo has been released, he has effectively made it that much harder to make it in. Considering that Pichu wouldn't require the work of two charaters, I'm giving them a score worse than her.

Want - 50.01% - I'm conflicted. I consider having the stater trio important, yet after we add them Pokemon would take up most of the roster. I'm fine with leaving them behind, but adding them just feels like adding something minutely important.

Prof. Layton - 11.35% - An enigma that must be solved, I suppose.


New Palutena's Guidance Conversations X3
Anna (FE) X2
Mar 20, 2014
All your base
Squirtle (Alone): 10%
Ivysaur (Alone): 5%
Both of them: 30%
Total Squirtle Score: 40%
Total Ivysaur: 35%

From what we have seen, I'm beginning to believe that Smash 4 DLC will be focused on veterans, perhaps dedicated to them. After all, the character moveset and data is already there, and it's an easy way to please the fans. And with the possibility of Roy coming back, I'm beginning to think there is no such thing as a "rep limit."

Want: 90%

Two of my favorites from Brawl. But sadly they were cut while Chair zard took the spotlight. Why u do dis, Mash potato Samurai?:sadeyes::sadeyes::sadeyes::sadeyes:

Nominating 6+ DLC characters x5

Predicting Layton at 9.5%

a smart guy

Smash Journeyman
Apr 5, 2014
St. Louis
Chance: 30% Pokemon burnout is his greatest adversary, and we already have a water starter.
Want: 40% I'd be happy for his fans, but I could never get the hang of him.

Chance: 30% Less popular than Squirtle, but he is a grass starter.
Want: 45% He was my favorite part of Pokemon Trainer, but I don't think he needs to come back.

Predictions: 8.3%
Nominations: Chibi-Robo x5


Smash Champion
Dec 10, 2013
:007:and :002:
50% Chance (I'm convinced we would get both of them, and neither alone)
-Unique Movesets: These guys both had very unique movesets in the grand scheme of Smash. Even with :4greninja: making a splash, :007: still has a unique moveset of his own, allowing them to co exist.
-Veterans: Being cut veterans means two things for these guys. One, they have at least some work put into them (Transformation characters were separated due to 3DS, work probably was done on these guys). The second is that there is demand for them to come back. Is it as great as :snake:,:wolf:,or:popo:? No, but the demand still beats out newcomers in Japan, and they do have a following.
-Decently popular Pokemon: :007: is a fan favorite due to its time in the anime, as well as being many people's first Pokemon.
:002:, while nowhere near as popular as :007:, or even the other members of its evolution line, does have a decent amount of popularity
-Possible replacement: While the have unique movesets, that does not mean they are automatically salvaged in this form. :003: and :009: both could replace :007: and :002:. The two could easily take the moveset elements, tinker with their stats, and have new characters. The evolved forms are even arguably more recognizable due to Mega Evolution. I see both of these two having a 30% chance to replace our vets, detracting from overall chance
-Lack of relative demand: Out of Brawl's cuts, people are the least vocal about these two. Their demand is there, and in some places, like Japan, rather high, is beaten out by the other Brawl Cuts and :roypm:.
-Possible Overrepping- While overrepping might be a myth to Sakurai, it does ring true to consumers, many people do not want to buy three Pokemon dlc characters, which could hinder Nintendo's decision to allow the DLC to follow through.
100% Want
I love veterans. All veterans, even :172:, will get a 100% from me. But to further explain, I love Pokemon. I love the varied characters, I love the games, its all fun. I personally don't like how easy the recent games have been, so I often play through Platinum, Emerald, HGSS, and FRLG. As such, I have plenty of fond memories of these two from source material alone. I have done nuzlockes, speedruns, you name it. I remember beating the Elite 4 with just a Dugtrio, Zapdos, and Blastoise. I remember surviving a nuzlocke, even after my Venusaur took so many crits.
I loved playing as them, especially in Project M. They were really unique, and are so different from any other character. While :006: feels a tad more generic due to the whole dragon like stature, there really is nothing like these two. I play both of these two as PM secondaries. The only thing keeping me from playing Pokemon trainer in Brawl was the stupid stamina feature. With that gone, I would pick these two up in a heartbeat.
While some veterans I support on possible new movesets like:younglinkmelee: (Imagine a mask based moveset, where he does a few attacks from each character as specials, Goron Side B, Zora B, Deku Up B) and :pichumelee: (see my post on Pichu day), or some I support for seeing no reason to their cuts:snake::wolf:, or due to thinking there might be hope to restore them into Smash 4 without hurting their gimmick:popo:, :ivysaur::squirtle: have my nod as two characters who, while I see the logic behind their cut, I wholeheartedly hope return.
Nominating Concept: Rhythm Heaven Character x 5
That Emblem man.
Professor Layton 6.66%
I respect him, but I don't think the gentleman is as likely as other DLC choices, especially from a third party.
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Smash Lord
Sep 29, 2014
None of your beeswax!
Switch FC
Chances: I'd say 30-40%. They'd be some of the easier characters to implement, both have unique movesets and since some aspects of them would have to be removed (Down-B and Final Smash (as well as Ivysaurs Up-B)), they could be tweaked to bring something entirely new to the table, without having to build a character from the ground up.
On the other hand, they don't seem that popular and people keep crying "too many Pokermanz!!". More characters is never a bad thing, especially if they're optional.
So, give 'em 35%. That's between 30 and 40.

Want: 100%.
I love Ivysaur, it's so beautiful and cute! It was my secondary in Brawl and the only playable Poison-type (my favorite!!) in the entire series. I find its design more appealing than Bulbasaur and Venusaur, since its a nice blend between them; it's body is smaller like Bulbasaur, but it still has a nice flower like Venusaur.
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needs hugs~<3
Oct 27, 2008
Ashley's Haunted Mansion!
There have been no official results announced for the smash ballot
Sorry for the late reply ^^'
You're right. No "Official" results list has been put out yet but the sub-reddit one has. I was confused over that for a while... now I know it's not the end all list, but it is still somewhat reflective of which characters have been voted for the most in the real list.

Geno is still the highest rated Square-Enix character BY FAR and I think that counts for something even in a unofficial list.

Today's thang: Squirtle & Ivysaur! :007::002:
I'm a bit confused here.. both of them together as the same character? or either of them possibly making it?
Squirtle's chance: 14%
Ivysaur's chance: 9%
Both of them together: 4%
My main reason for the low scores is we just had Mewtwo added for the last DLC character. And with the Ryu & Roy sound files leak, it shows there are only an additional 5 SLOTS open! Now... do any of you really believe with Pokemon having 6 REPS, with so many other franchises lacking, we'll be getting yet another Pokemon character to take one of those slots? (there could be more added in the future thou maybe) I love pokemon, I love it in-game, and competive, but I believe with Mewtwo added they are going to be focusing on other franchises instead. And if they do add another poke, it will prolly be a II, III, or Gen V poke. FOUR of the SIX pokes we have now are all Gen I. Or who knows... sometimes Nintendo makes strange decisions~

Ivysaur: 43%
Squirtle: 32%
both of them together: 2%
I liked using Ivysaur the best out of all 3 of the pokemon trainers buddies. I like Grass types alot, even with their obvious weaknesses both defensively & offensively in pokemon. Then water comes next. Fire types are so overrated like Fighting & Dark so Charizard was my least fav out of the three. But there's no denying that Charizard is an iconic Pokemon much like Pikachu so he's still cool, it's my own personal preferences at play here.
And Ivysaur had a very unique moveset compared to the other three. I would play as only Ivysaur if I could so seeing him return alone would cool I guess~

Professor Layton Prediction: 16%

Ashley x2
Viridi x3
Yo. We get it. You dont like greninja.

And viridi definitely isnt voting competition.

Ivysaur has all of his brawl fans. Viridi has me and like. . . 2 other people.
@oni333 You didnt for get me did you? :nervous: make that 3 other people~ :chuckle:


Smash Cadet
Oct 26, 2014
Both Squirtle and Ivysaur:
Chance: 40%
As of right now, the only DLC that has been confirmed have been veterans. Squirtle and Ivysaur are veterans, so that'd be a point in their favor. They're also a Brawl veteran, so porting them from brawl would be (I would imagine) significantly easier than porting them from Melee or making them from scratch. The sheer mass of the Pokemon fanbase in conjunction with the ballot would also be a point in their favor.
On the other hand, in casual discussion I've never really found many people who liked Squirtle or Ivysaur. Their fully evolved forms? Yeah, but not them. And while I can easily see a fair number of people voting for them because they're veterans, I still think that they aren't all that high on the popularity list.
+10% for ballot, +25% for Brawl veteran (10% for already being in smash, 15% for being relatively easy to make) +5% for being a not-unpopular Pokemon, +5% for Pokemon's massive fanbase being able to easily sway the ballot, -5% for perceived lack of interest

Want: 20%
I don't want the roster to be oversaturated by Pokemon (or any franchise, really), and I have no attachment to neither Squirtle nor Ivysaur. There are worse choices (+10%), and the amount of effort that would have to go into them would be significantly less than most other DLC, potentially leaving enough resources for there to be little to no impact on the amount of newcomers (+10%).

Layton Prediction: 34%

*Concept: (Shin) Megami Tensei Character (includes Persona & Devil Survivor) x5


Smash Hero
Oct 29, 2014
1. K. Rool: 75%/100%
2. Banjo-Kazooie: 10%/70%
3. Isaac: 60%/40%
4. Bandana Dee: 50%/25%
5. Captain Toad: 25%/15%
6. Krystal: 25%/15%
7. Dixie Kong: 50%/50%
8. Impa: 50%/50%
9. Shantae: 15%/40%
10. Inklings: 55%/40%
11. Rayman: 30%/40%
12. Snake: 40%/70%
13. Wolf: 85%/65%
14. Shovel Knight: 20%/40%
15. Quote: 15%/45%
16. Ice Climbers: 10%/35%
17. Sceptile: 20%/50%
18. Wonder Red: 20%/35%
19. Promoted NPCs: 5%/Abstain
20. Henry Fleming: 15%/15%
21: Paper Mario: 30%/20%
22. Roy: 95%/0%
23. Ridley: 5%/80%
24. Chorus Kids: 25%/35%
25. DLC Alternate Costumes: 75%/75%
26. Magalor: 15%/30%
27. Midna/Link: 1%/5%
28. Ray: 20%/35%
29. Tetra: 20%/20%
30. Pichu: 15%/0%
31. Ryu: 90%/30%
32. Phoenix Wright: 15%/55%
33. Lip: 15%/35%
34. Simon Belmont: 5%/30%
35. Daisy: 15%/0%
36. Ninten: 5%/10%
37. Geno: 5%/30%

Chance: 20%. Sakurai didn't seem to deem them worthy to come back, and more Pokemon DLC strikes me as unlikely.

Want: 30%. They're cool Pokemon, but we have enough of those as it is and their movesets didn't rock my world.

Beast Ganon 5x

Layton prediction: 10%


Smash Journeyman
Jun 20, 2014
Gangplank Galleon
Chance: 10%
While the demand exists, it just isn't enough to justify bringing them back. Unlike Charizard, I don't think either of them could stand alone from a popularity standpoint. Furthermore, Mewtwo's inclusion as DLC makes any more Pokemon unlikely. While rep theory doesn't exist to Sakurai, fans believe it, and it shows by the number of votes these two are getting (not alot). They are veterans, and would be easy to implement, but I just don't see it.

Want: 5%
While i did enjoy them, I don't really see the need for either of them to come back. We have enough Pokemon already, and we DEFINITELY have enough Gen 1 Pokemon. They were fun, but they were part of a larger gimmick, and bringing back all three of them separately is unnecessary. We are already getting back Mewtwo, Lucas, Roy, and very likely Wolf. With the addition of Ryu that's 4/5 DLC characters as veterans. that's definitely enough, just give us some unique characters already. The biggest part of speculation for Smash is "Who will make it in", not "Who will return". Enough with the veterans, some characters just need to be buried. Squirtle and Ivysaur are pretty irrelevant Pokemon in the grand scheme. They only made sense because of the larger gimmick. Take that away and you aren't left with much.

RH Character x3
Themed Stage Packs x2

Layton Prediction: 18.4%


Smash Champion
Aug 5, 2014
These wants and chances are for both:

Chance :10%
Since Pokemon Trainer's mechanic was removed, only Charizard was chosen to be standalone. It is obvious they were considered but dropped. They do have demand but hardly as any. Considering they were in consideration they can still come back, but I doubt it. They won't be ballot entries, that's for sure. Also if most of the DLC is vets, people are not going to be happy.

Want: 33%
Cause they were vets, I would give them a want of 33%. Although I could never really like any of their movesets, except Squirtle going "Squirtle" XD I won't mind them, but I am not exactly all for them coming back.

Layton: 9.42477% (added more puzzling precision :p - can you figure out which number [p]I changed into this rating)

Abel (SMT: Devil Survivor) or other SMT character x 5
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Character Concept Creator
Mar 23, 2012
St. Louis, MO
My main reason for the low scores is we just had Mewtwo added for the last DLC character. And with the Ryu & Roy sound files leak, it shows there are only an additional 5 SLOTS open! Now... do any of you really believe with Pokemon having 6 REPS, with so many other franchises lacking, we'll be getting yet another Pokemon character to take one of those slots? (there could be more added in the future thou maybe) I love pokemon, I love it in-game, and competive, but I believe with Mewtwo added they are going to be focusing on other franchises instead.
Wait a minute now. Consider the fact that those character placeholders were literally just added in the Mewtwo patch. If they were added in just like *snaps fingers* that, who's to say they couldn't add more in future patches as they deem necessary?


Smash Cadet
May 17, 2015
So, I'm still really new here, and I didn't realize that Impa has already been voted on, so since I don't see too big of a reason to call a revote, I'm going to retract that nomination. Sorry for the inconvenience.

I change that particular nomination to Isaac (From the Binding of Isaac)
It was announced that the game would be coming to Nintendo systems last year sometime,(supposedly arriving just before E3 this year) and here's a vine showing it running on the 3DS


Smash Lord
Nov 24, 2001
Squirtle and Ivysaur

These two are in an odd place. Clearly once they decided not to have transformation characters anymore, there was a discussion about what to do with Pokemon Trainer. And in that discussion, which I'm guessing was brief, they decided to keep Charizard and drop Squirtle and Ivysaur.

The reasoning is not hard to fathom. For one, Charizard is and has been one of the most popular Pokemon generally, whereas Squirtle and Ivysaur are not nearly as much so (although they're reasonably popular I imagine). It's also unclear to me how popular Squirtle and Ivysaur are vs. their evolutionary counterparts (Wartortle, Blastoise, Bulbasaur and Venusaur). My guess is that Blastoise is more popular than the other two in its line though, but I can't be sure.

Personally, I don't like Wartortle's design, and Venusaur and to a lesser extent Blastoise are bit clunky for Smash fighters. Blastoise could be a Bowser-like character though. Bulbasaur is possible, but Ivysaur's design is a good middle-ground between cute/tiny/mobile Bulbasaur and giant/sluggish-looking/busy-design Venusaur. At any rate, when it came to the Pokemon Trainer trio Squirtle/Ivysaur/Charizard clearly was the way to go. And having a middle evolution is not necessarily a problem in itself.

But without the trio, do the other two make sense? And aren't there other Pokemon they could pick? Well, let's just do the pros and cons.

+ Veteran. It'd be less effort to make than a new character, although a little more than most veterans since it needs a new B move and final smash.
+ Gets decent support on the ballot, but not super high. Without veteran status, I'd place its chances quite low. Seems lower than Ivysaur, probably because Greninja is also water-type. However, it's probably top 3 when you just look at Pokemon.

- Pokemon has a high chance of being skipped over entirely. Mewtwo is already DLC, Pokemon is not underrepresented (although it could justify getting another character), there seems to be less demand overall for Pokemon on the Ballot.
- Not only has there already been Pokemon DLC, there's been Pokemon veteran DLC, so there may be some feeling that if they add another Pokemon it should be a newcomer.
- Greninja is a water-type, to the extent that that matters. Squirtle's move set is pretty much completely different. Conceptually water-based attacks are similar, but as far as in-game properties they as as different as any other two characters.
- Ivysaur and Sceptile are potentially more popular, so if there's only going to be one more Pokemon DLC, Squirtle doesn't seem the most likely to me.
- At the same time, if the team looks at Squirtle and Ivysaur, they might decide, well, we don't want to pick just one of them and create bitterness between their respective fans... but we can't justify putting both of them in when there are more popular choices.
- GameFreak may have a say on any more Pokemon DLC, and I'm guessing they prefer more promotional choices. By the time they're ready to make a Pokemon DLC character, it's possible we will have another new Pokemon they'd like to promote. This depends partly on how long this DLC goes on for (if there are characters released in 2016, marketing new Pokemon becomes much more of an issue)

+ Veteran like Squirtle. Same notes.
+ Ivysaur seems possibly more popular than Squirtle.
+ Grass-type is unrepresented in Smash at the moment. Ivysaur is also pretty much fully quadrupedal - probably the most quadrupedal in Smash (even Duck Hunt Dog gets up on its hind legs/uses its front paws to throw things sometimes, etc.)

- Same negatives as Squirtle for the most part. Ivysaur might have the best chance for a Pokemon DLC, but there is still the issue of there being some motivation for making a Pokemon newcomer instead, or simply having other series get DLC.

Squirtle chances: 5%
Ivysaur chances: 7%
I have a hard time seeing them as that likely. They got left out for a reason, and those reasons still apply. Meanwhile, the ballot doesn't seem to reveal a real hunger for more Pokemon reps. Pokemon is going to have the most rotation of reps I think because that's how the series is. They certainly have a chance, and they also have a chance for Smash 5 (certainly if Smash 5 gets DLC, they'd be very good candidates for that since their absence from Smash 4 would make their return all the more sweet). Ivysaur seems a little more popular, so I have to give it a higher chance since I think the ballot matters.

Squirtle want: 51%
I'm mostly indifferent to Squirtle. It was alright in Brawl. It'd probably be better in Sm4sh - better balanced due to removal of PT mechanics and the addition of a new special would be cool. But there are many many other characters I'd rather see.
Ivysaur want: 62%
I thought Ivysaur's design was more interesting. Also Bulbasaur was the Pokemon I chose the first time I played, so that's probably worth something too. New special could be something like in PM, or even an exploration of Ivysaur's Poison-type moves. Still, I'd prefer to see other series get some love, and a number of characters would be better choices IMO. If we get a large cast of DLC characters, Ivysaur would have a chance of making my list though. I would be happy to see it return though, even if it's not my top choice.

Young Link x5
It has to happen, even though we all know how it's going to turn out.
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Dec 18, 2014
The Hoenn region
Squirtle and Ivysaur: Both 35%

+Still pretty unique movesets compared to the rest of the cast
+/- Their final smashes would be changed. Would that extra difficulty make the developers shy away from bringing them back?
-Stigma of "2 many pokemanz"
-Pokemon fans' votes are diluted among many potential candidates

Want: 99%

Professor Layton
Chance: 9.7%

Spyro the Dragon [x5]


Smash Lord
Nov 11, 2014
Aboda Village

Chance: 50%. Given the elimination of Pokemon Trainer, yet Squirtle's popularity, I would learn more towards a toss-up, since I can see why Sakurai wouldn't want to bring him back without the rotation mechanic yet Squirtle would still be unique as a fighter without the mechanic. And no, Greninja did not replace Squirtle. If he did, then Lucario replaced Mewtwo in Brawl.

Want: 20%. I have little personal attraction to Squirtle nor do I enjoy his playstyle, but for the sake of Squirtle mains I still want him back a little.


Chance: 35%. Same as Squirtle except with less popularity.

Want: 20%. Same as Squirtle.


Smash Lord
Apr 4, 2014
Squirtle and Ivysaur
Chances: (Squirtle) 19%, (Ivysaur) 17%
While they're veterans, I doubt they're high priority for DLC. I think the idea is to bring in a good combination of both veterans and newcomers. With Mewtwo already being a veteran Pokemon released as DLC I can't help but feel that Sakurai and the team are probably set with the Pokemon franchise, and are ready to move onto the next DLC characters for other franchises. If anything they might decide to bring one back, but bringing back both will probably take up too much development time to justify three characters being added to a franchise as DLC when we probably aren't going to get all that many DLC characters to begin with. I'll give the Pokemon duo a chance of 19% and 17% respectively.
I'm not all that confident in their chances, but I'm willing to be wrong...

Want: (Both) 45%
If they want to bring them back, that's fine with me. I'd rather see other franchises get some attention since Pokemon already got its highly requested DLC character, but I know how much cut veterans mean to some people.

Prediction - Professor Layton: 8.7%

x10 Toon Zelda
Dec 24, 2001
Still up Peach's dress.

K. Rool
Day missed. Absent.

Chance: 9%, Want: 85%

Chance: 55%, Want: 75%

Bandana Dee
Chance: 40%, Want: 100%

Captain Toad
Chance: 45%, Want: 100%

Chance: 25%, Want: 50%

Dixie Kong
Chance: 66%, Want: 100%

Chance: 28%, Want: 100%

Chance: 1%, Want: 5%

Chance: 62%, Want: 70%

Chance: 33%, Want: 90%

Day missed. Whoops.

Chance: 100%, Want: 80%

Shovel Knight
Chance: 0.3%, Want: 0%

Chance: 0.5%, Want: 3%

Chance: 5%, Want: 10%

Chance: 20%, Want: 55%

Wonder Red
Chance: 15%, Want: 68%

Promoted NPCs
Chance: 25%, Want: 100%

Henry Fleming:
Day missed.

Paper Mario
Chance: 30%, Want: 75%

Chance: 99%, Want: 80%

Chance: 5%, Want: 48%

Chorus Men
Chance: 9%, Want: 0%

DLC Costumes
Chance: 45%, Want: 50%

Chance: 2%, Want: 2%

Midna (and Wolf Link)
Chance: 4%, Want: 30%

Ray MK#
Chance: 8%, Want: 23%

Chance: 20%, Want: 25%

Chance: 45%, Want: 85%

Chance: 99%, Want: 60%

Phoenix Wright
Day missed

Chance: 5%, Want: 35%

Simon Belmont
Chance: 2%, Want: 30%

Chance: 15%, Want: 50%

Chance: 1%, Want: 0%

Gee, no
Chance: 0.1%, Want: -100% (or 0%)

:007: + :002:
Chance: 45%
Whilst nowhere as beloved as :006: in terms of popularity, being veterans seems to put them in decent stead. So far all the confirmed DLC characters are vets and Roy is also rumoured to return. With Wolf seemingly likely as well, and Japan mostly requesting all the vets back, I think they have a better chance than others suggest.

Want: 85%
I love these guys. Squirtle in particular as he was my very first Pokemon, and my favourite of Ash's squad in the early days of the anime.

Whenever I played Pokemon Trainer, Squirtle was my character of choice, closely followed by Ivysaur with Zard only used for Rock Smash Boss Battle abuse(it was super effective!).
Whilst I understand why Charizard was the only one to return; most popular Pokemon on the planet and all that, I can't help but be a little gutted that the two Pokemon I actually liked playing as in Brawl got the boot. I also feel Pokemon, like Mario, could be allowed as many 'reps' as it wants since it's the second biggest video game franchise on the planet after Nintendo's most famous plumber and pals.

Professor Prediction: 8%


:052: X 5.
Since it's a Pokemon day, let's nominate the only Pokemon I genuinely have always wanted to play as. Ignore the NPC status.


Smash Champion
Jul 23, 2014
"What did you say about my hair?!"
Switch FC
Previous Evaluations:
K.Rool Chance: 87% Want: 100
Banjo & Kazooie Chance: 3% Want: 14%
Isaac Chance: 70% Want: 90%
Bandanna Dee Chance: 42% Want: 50%
Captain Toad: Abstained chance and want
Krystal Chance: 36% Want: 71%
Dixie Kong Chance: 40% Want: 43%
Impa Chance: 35% Want 79%
Shantae Chance: 10% Want 54%
Inklings Chance: 31% Want: 51%
Rayman Chance: 61% Want 89%
Snake Chance: 35% Want: 50%
Wolf Chance: 98% Want: 100%
Shovel Knight Chance: 13% Want 65%
Quote Chance 8% Want: 4%
Ice Climbers Chance: 25% Want: 40%
Sceptile: Chance: 12.60 Want: 52%
Wonder Red Chance: 18% Want: 78%
Promoted NPCs Chance: 13% Want: 30%
Henry Fleming Chance: 13.20 Want: 57%
Paper Mario Chances: 14% Want: 8%
Roy Chance: 98% Want 100%
Ridley Chance: 5% Want 75%
Chorus Men Chance: 9% Want: 45%
DLC Costumes: Chance 80% Want: 100%
Magolor Chance: 7% Want: 46%
Wolf Link and Midna Chance: 3% Want: 25%
Ray Chance: 37% Want 55%
Tetra Chance: 19% Want: 46%
Pichu Chance: 30% Want: 68%
Ryu Chance 98% Want: 75%
Phoenix Wright Chance: 7% Want: 100%
Lip: Abstained Chance and Want
Simon Belmont Chance: 4% Want 57%
Daisy Chance: 21% Want: 10%
Ninten Chance and Want 1%
Geno Chance: 1% Want: 13%
Squirtle and Ivysaur Chance and Want: 13%, 1%
Chance for both: 13%
Want: 1%
I can live without Squirtle and Ivysaur in Smash 4. There's already quite an abundance of Generation I Pokémon, but there's always Pokkén Tournament.
Nominations: Waluigi X3, Sylux X2
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Jul 16, 2014
Switch FC
Squirtle and Ivysaur:

Squirtle: 29%

Ivysaur: 31%

They're veterans thus easier to implement than newcomers, original movesets, they also have people wanting them back. But, not as much as Wolf, Snake, Lucas, Roy, Mewtwo, or Ice Climbers.


Both: 75%. They're veterans and I hate cuts in general.


Professor Layton: 28%

Nominate Mother 3 stage x5.
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Jun 25, 2014
The elegant battlefield.

Chance: 25% - They aren't quite as likely as other veterans, but veteran status does help them. The main problem, they don't get ballot votes like Wolf, Ice Climbers, and Snake do. It's really a shame, I liked them more than I liked Charizard. Also, while Ivysaur does have grass down for representing, I know some people would argue for Sceptile instead (personally, I'd prefer Ivysaur, but, opinions.) :)

Squirtle: 80%
Ivysaur: 90%
Both: 85%
While they felt a bit weird for me to use in Brawl, I love the two of them in Project M, but Ivysaur more so. There's something satisfying about finally getting that solarbeam and watching your opponents try to keep themselves grounded and away from floating platforms. Again, I find them much more fun than Charizard, so it's a shame that he was the chosen one of the three. (Ah popularity, it really helps. I remember when Charizard was my favorite Kanto Starter Final Evolution, but overtime things change.) I'm getting a bit off track here aren't I. Bottom line, do I see them as likely? No. Would I like to see them return? Let me ask you this, does Ivysaur learn Leech Seed at level 7? (the answer is yes).

Predictions: Professor Layton
Uh... I've seen this guy around, but I hardly know him. Um... 10%?

Meowth X3
Chibi-Robo X2
Mar 18, 2015
Houston, Texas
Squirtle and Ivysaur
Want: 30%
Well they are veterans who have movesets set for them, they also have fans requested for them. Sadly it's not much as Mewtwo, Wolf, Lucas, Snake, Ice Climbers, or Roy. Besides how many Pokemon is on the roster now. 6 with Mewtwo now added in. To be honest the Pokemon roster has the perfect team. We don't the need first generation taking over this part of the roster, it'll feel like the other generations are getting ignored even if these were the original Pokemon.

Want (Both): 100%
I would like to see all vets at least from Brawl to come back. While Snake maybe a bit of a mess to get back at least get all of the first party charcters from Brawl make it in to hold us before we get more newcomers.

Professor Layton Prediction 10%
Just like the Pokemon roster the third path roster is perfect. We don't need anyone else after Ryu and if we get Snake back (the latter seem so unlikely because of the impossible mess with Konami). While third parties do bring up hype I don't think we're going to get too many of them. The only third party newcomers for DLC I can really see happening are Ryu and maybe possibly Rayman. Professor Layton would seem so random and out there. He's not that iconic which is something the other third parties in the game have under their name. Again I just think it'd be random if he showed up. I'd say he should be at least a trophy because he does have good connections with Nintendo. Then again Level 5 doesn't have that long of a history with Nintnendo like Sega, Capcom, and Namco have but hey who knows.

x3 DLC Stages (Wait have we rated DLC Stages yet or no)
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Sarki Soliloquy

Smash Champion
Jun 8, 2013
Andover, MA, USA
Flapjacker Hotcakes would like to double rating battle!

"Now, wouldja like em' with powder sugar or maple syrup?"

Flapjacker Hotcakes sends out Squirtle and Ivysaur!

Character Chance Ratings

1: Ryu - 97.7%
1: Roy - 97.7%
2: Wolf - 97.5%
3: Rayman - 60%
4: Snake - 55%
5: Inkling - 50%
6: Sceptile - 45%
6: Krystal - 45%
7: Paper Mario: 44.5%

8: Dixie Kong - 43%
9: Wonder Red - 40%
10: Impa - 40.5%
11: Simon Belmont - 35%
12: Ice Climbers - 30%

12: Captain Toad - 30%
13: Chorus Kids - 27.5%

14: Magolor - 25%
15: Henry Fleming - 25.7%
16: Ivysaur - 23.7%
17: Squirtle - 22.5%
18: Quote - 21.5%
19: Phoenix Wright - 20%
19: Shovel Knight - 20%
20: Shantae - 20.5%
21: Tetra - 20.3%

22: Midna & Wolf Link - 10%
23: Lip - 10.5%
24: Geno - 7%
25: Ray - 5%
25: Pichu - 5%
26: Daisy - 5.7%
27: Ridley - 5.5%
-: Professor Layton - ?.?%

Character Want Ratings

1: Shovel Knight - 100%
1: Wolf - 100%
2: Simon Belmont - 90.5%
2: Sceptile - 90.5%
3: Shantae - 87%
4: Wonder Red - 86.5%

5: Snake - 85%
5: Impa - 85%
6: Magolor - 85.5%

7: Ice Climbers - 80%
8: Chorus Kids - 80.5%
9: Ryu - 60%
9: Paper Mario: 60%
10: Midna & Wolf Link - 60.5%
11: Phoenix Wright - 55%
12: Ridley - 50%
13: Inkling - 30%
14: Henry Fleming - 30.5%

15: Rayman - 25%
16: Quote - 23%

17: Krystal - 20%
17: Dixie Kong - 20%
18: Tetra - 20.5%

19: Squirtle - 10.7%
19: Ivysaur - 10.7%
20: Geno - 10.5%
20: Roy - 10.5%
21: Lip - 5.7%

22: Captain Toad - 5.5%
23: Ray - 4.5%
24: Pichu - 1%
24: Daisy - 1%

-: Professor Layton - ?.?%

Concept Chance Ratings

1: DLC Alternate Costumes - 85%
2: Any NPC Becomes Playable - 65.7%

Concept Want Ratings
1: DLC Alternate Costumes - 100%
2: Any NPC Becomes Playable - 50.5%

Abstains (Inactivity)

King K. Rool
Bandana Dee

Abtsains (Indifference)



Chance - 22.5%:
Pokémon Trainer's other two Pokémon are better off left behind now that Charizard was promoted into his sole character, carrying the spirit of this nixed trio along with it. Greninja already covers the Water type on top of Dark abilities, which makes Squirtle's few water attacks wither in comparison, especially when you compare the kit of the two with what they would be both capablke of with the element. And now that Mewtwo has struck back, the overall demand for more Pokémon is extraordinarily low. Yet alone those from Gen I. But given that the developers may want to throw in one more as a special case of sorts, the newcomer Pokémon all offer more appealing options even within the same typeset.
Want - 10.7%: Once a Smash Brother, always a Smash Brother. Get in the game, and you will be immortalized in Nintendo fame. It's this line of thinking that people seem to justify their favorite cut vets for getting in another game.

Sure, I'd be totally fine playing the Tiny Turtle Pokémon again. But it and Ivysaur just feel super periphery at this point. The Starter Element Trio was no long a thing as of Smash 3DS. And with 2/3 of it being united, putting in Squirtle would put an awkward split between whether this would be realized through Greninja or Squirtle. Not only this, but I see another Pokémon character (with the exception of one) getting in as DLC to be super redundant and it will only feel like we're padding out the roster for the sake of getting the 2nd largest Nintendo franchise up to snuff with the sheer incredulity of the Mario character count.


Chance - 23.7%:
Please see Squirtle for more arguments against them for the sake of the Pokémon Trainer. Again like Squirtle, its another veteran who's place feels less than warranted this time around. Ivysaur does have an edge in being the Grass type however, which is already missing from Smash 4. It could even complete the arbitrary type trio alone as a neat roundoff. But when we already have Charizard and a more requested, fresh Grass starter as a possible DLC choice, this midstage starter can't even hold up a candle.
Want - 10.7%: To be honest, I feel like cuts have always been a necessity for every Smash game. The roster only increases as time goes on. As the roster gets bigger, the cast saturates and the divides between character usage become more apparent. So I'd prefer if the lower priority or redundant veterans should stay in their place as legacy characters until time bids them right for a comback a la Mewtwo or even Dr. Mario. This already feels violated with Lucas returning and most likely Roy. Except those characters weren't dependent on one moveset to see which one would be the best choice to make into a full character. Besides, if there's any Pokémon character I want, yet alome a Grass starter, Sceptile brings much more variety and meshes better with a hypothetical Starter Type Trio numerically and evolutionally with Charizard and Greninja.


Professor Layton

Chance - 73.68%
Want - 93.69%



*Concept: Smash 5 has 10 Year Wait Cycle x2
*Concept: No DLC Characters After Fighter Ballot x2
*Concept: (Shin) Megami Tensei Character (includes Persona & Devil Survivor) x1
Last edited:
Dec 24, 2001
Still up Peach's dress.
Alrighty, before I rate Squirtle and Ivysaur, I'll announce that I'll be adjusting my Geno Want score from 13% to a more positive 38%. Sorry detractors, Star Road needs me - And my reason for adding support for Geno is simple - 1st party all-star first, Smash Bros fighter second.
You are aware that once the day has passed any edited scores count for naught, right?

At least officially.
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Smash Journeyman
Jun 14, 2011
Mushroom Kingdom
Those little guys are cool and all, but i would rather see them in their final evolution forms.

Chances = 34%

Thanks to a loyal base of supporters for them, and the fact Veterans seem to be the main goal with DLC seemingly.

Want = 42%

For professor Layton

Never played this guys games, but thanks to the fact he is all over Smashboards i have indeed heard of him.
Judging by his looks... hmmmm.... doesn't look much likea fighter to me. Maybe a Assist Trophy.

Chances for Layton : Higher than the Pokemon Duo at 47%. Once again, supporters and fans. And a completely new newcomer.

Do i want him : Not really.
Sep 25, 2014
The void
Switch FC
-want 100%: I loved this critter's uniqe playstyle and properties in brawl and project M. Honestly, I enjoyed it more so than any smash 4 newcomer.

Squirtle: -want 80%: Sqirtle was interesting and fun and all but i really didn't find him to be nearly as disinct and intriguing as ivysaur due to being just another quick, pressure-heavy small character with a charge side b. we also have greninja as the water mon now. still, i think all vets with a unique moveset should return if possible and i'd love to see squirtle return.

Chance(both): 50% vets have staing power overall but unfortunately a lot of the smash fandom really don't like having a lot of pokemon characters. I do think they have a likely chance to possibly return as pre-planned DLC outside of the ballot
Apr 12, 2014
Lost Jerusalem
Squirtle and Ivysaur

Chance: 50%

It is entirely possible that they can come as dlc because they were in brawl and had some good movesets. The only problem with them is that if we do get them back there would be so many pokemon reps. We also just got Mewtwo so I am very 50/50 on this. They were really fun to use sometimes. If I were to pick one, it would be Ivysaur. I didn't like using squirtle at times.

Want: 30%

Great representatives in brawl but I want something new and we really don't need any other pokemon. If a pokemon were to get in, it would be Meloetta. her forme change can make a very interesting playstyle!

Nominations: My blue haired gynoid KOS-MOS X5. She is going to be rated soon. Can't wait!
Jul 16, 2013
Squirtle and ivysaur

Chance 40%

It would have ben lower but they are veterans so moves are ready (besides what ever they're down special is)

And they are more requested but the trainer/ash is gone (those 2 could go lone ranger like charizard)

(The big pickle is mewtwo unless more than one rep per franchise they're in the clear.)

Want 100%

That would make all smash bros pokemon return


Shante 10x

(Theres evidence for her do to those rumored amiibo treasure game thing, i forgot the name of that.)


Professor layton


Well Ryu is likely to get threw why not layton.
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