Rate Their Chances - Smash Ultimate Edition! Day 672: Five Most Likely First and Third Parties for Smash 6, and Final Goodbyes

[Dukemon102]

I think it's because we hear more about Bandana Dee and there's more Kirby characters as well, so more people are going to see the requests, not have it click with them, and try their best to find an alternative. From what I hear, most of the DK requests were devoured by K. Rool, and once he was revealed for Smash, most people probably decided he was all we were getting for DK reps. This was especially true when A: Spirits deconfirmed pretty much every major first-party request, and B: The first pass shifted speculation towards third-party characters.
Unlike K. Rool, Bandana Dee hasn't joined yet, and unlike Dixie, there hasn't been another Kirby rep to put a damper his support. As a result, he's requested more often, and so he runs a greater risk of being deemed "overrated."

With most of the discussions were focused on "relevance" more than moveset or importance. Thank god we don't have to go through that again now that he and made it in.
But I would argue was 's equivalent and DK was left lagging behind until Ultimate. Also many people were not bringing up Bandana Dee to compare him to other Kirby reps before, in Smash 4's days it was debated over and over again how he wasn't really a main character and 3 Kirby characters were enough. When Battle Royale and Star Allies were released, that argument doesn't hold up anymore and then it became how Marx was better (But then the boss happened and the support evaporated), and then the other Dream Friends (I've seen no support for any other one except Adeleine) which let us in the situation we are now, but the Dream Friend thing is really stretching it at this point. It's like the last one thing people opposing Dee have.

With Dixie those points A and B were completely debunked by now so I expected more discussion around her, but since she seems to have no problems or arguments against her, she's the most quiet and highly requested character I've ever seen. Which is weird.
The people that want her as 's echo have diminished substantially at least.

First of all, I’m purely arguing to drum up discussion, since as said above, moveset potential is secondary to her other merits.

But, I don’t think Dixie has no moveset potential (we’ve all seen BirthNote’s doodles) and she doesn’t need like a meter or something, but like I have a hard time filling in the specials beyond Bubblegum Neutral B and Helicopter Hair Up B. What are some options for her side and down special? Again, I’m not looking for meters, just a little glue to tie her acrobatics together.

Difference with Bandana Dee is that I imagine Dixie’s basic moves to be her uniqueness and the specials would be cherries on top, whereas I’m still looking for such a hook for Bandana Dee. Purely personal.

For Dixie's side special you could use a command grab ponytail, which could lead to a cargo throw or something else. Or she could be blasted forward with a barrel, or charge forward with Rambi (Since he was never made an Assist Trophy for who knows why reason).
Down Special could be Dixie bringing up Kiddy Kong to throw him as a heavy projectile (Or switch if they are a Tag Team but that idea is very divisive between all the supporters) or use the Guitar to make a poweful shockwave.
Those are ideas on top of my head.

 

[SharkLord]

With most of the discussions were focused on "relevance" more than moveset or importance. Thank god we don't have to go through that again now that he and made it in.
But I would argue was 's equivalent and DK was left lagging behind until Ultimate. Also many people were not bringing up Bandana Dee to compare him to other Kirby reps before, in Smash 4's days it was debated over and over again how we wasn't really a main character and 3 Kirby characters was enough. When Battle Royale and Star Allies were released, that argument doesn't hold up anymore and then it became how Marx was better (But then the boss happened and the support evaporated), and then the other Dream Friends (I've seen no support for any other one except Adeleine) which let us in the situation we are now, but the Dream Friend thing is really stretching it at this point. It's like the last one thing people opposing Dee have.

With Dixie those points A and B were completely debunked by now so I expected more discussion around her, but since she seems to have no problems or arguments against her, she's the most quiet and highly requested character I've ever seen. Which is weird.
The people that want her as 's echo have diminished substantially at least.


You can make Dixie's side special you could use a command grab ponytail, which could lead to a cargo throw or something else. Or she could be blasted forward with a barrel, or charge forward with Rambi (Since he was never made an Assist Trophy for who knows why reason).
Down Special could be Dixie bringing up Kiddy Kong to throw him as a heavy projectile (Or switch if they are a Tag Team but that idea is very divisive between all the supporters) or use the Guitar to make a poweful shockwave.
Those are ideas on top of my head.

So basically, he's closer to K. Rool than Dixie because of relevancy arguments. I know he's got the modern part down pat, but relevancy also extends to how important they are in the series.
It really does feel like people are trying to latch on to another Kirby rep to discredit BWD, and that's really annoying because they're all good characters in their own right and should be supported based on their own merits, not because they're an alternative to the "generic hat goomba." This isn't just with Bandana Dee, either; In general, you should support a character because you like them, not because you dislike another character. If you're just doing it out of spite, then it doesn't really feel honest, you know?

 

[Speed Weed]

alright, i hope i'm not late on this one

The Dee

Chance: 50%
so, popularity. he's got it. lots of it. and worldwide, at that. if they happen to want a new kirby character, he's the one. spirits are no longer an issue. however, despite all these positives i must admit i also have my doubts. for one, the way challenger packs have been so far. everyone has been some form of a new world, whether be it by being an unrepresented third-party, taking place in a different setting from the rest of the games in your series or simply not having a playable rep in base game. bandana dee has none of these things, now, could a bandana dee challenger pack with nothing but brand new kirby content happen? absolutely, kirby still has more than enough potential for completely new set of spirits, music, a stage, etc.....i'm just not sure if that's the approach they want to take with the challenger packs. there's also characters that they could definitely pick over him in terms of spirits. overall, i feel dee is a coinflip.

Want: 90%
with all that said, while i don't support him as much as i used to, i still love the dude

Funny Monkey(TM)

Chance: 40%
the points i made on dee, positive and negative, also apply to dixie. her appearance in mkt shows nintendo didn't just drop her after tropical freeze and has, in fact, successfully reinserted her into the dk series, which means she als has a presence in current nintendo. not much else to say that hasn't already been said about dee tbh, if only that i feel somewhat less confident in her than dee.

Want: 70%
she'd be pretty cool, though i'm not an ardent supporter of her or anything

So basically, he's closer to K. Rool than Dixie because of relevancy arguments. I know he's got the modern part down pat, but relevancy also extends to how important they are in the series.
It really does feel like people are trying to latch on to another Kirby rep to discredit BWD, and that's really annoying because they're all good characters in their own right and should be supported based on their own merits, not because they're an alternative to the "generic hat goomba." This isn't just with Bandana Dee, either; In general, you should support a character because you like them, not because you dislike another character. If you're just doing it out of spite, then it doesn't really feel honest, you know?

THIS.

 

[Megadoomer]

Bandana Waddle Dee

Chance: 70% - previously, the only things standing in his way were the ideas that having a spirit disqualified a character and that Sakurai was biased in favour of the Kirby games that he made. The first one was proven objectively false with Min Min's inclusion, and the second one could just be a coincidence - the final smashes for Kirby and Meta Knight are based on games that Sakurai had no involvement with. Otherwise, he's a consistently popular choice (at least based on the polls that I've seen), and as far as first party characters go, he seems quite likely due to being treated as being about as important as Dedede or Meta Knight since 2011.

Want: 90% - it's weird that we haven't had a new Kirby character in Smash since Brawl back in 2008. While I'm not sure which Kirby character I'd want the most (Dark Matter could be neat, though they'd likely have to go with a mix between its swordfighter and true forms), Bandana Dee seems like he'd make for a fun character, especially if they incorporated something like the ability to add elements to your attacks like in Star Allies. (though for a limited period of time, to try and keep it balanced)

Dixie Kong

Chance: 70% - like with Bandana Dee, what seemed to be her biggest obstacle (the belief that spirits disqualify a character from being DLC) is completely gone. Dixie is unquestionably the most prominent Donkey Kong character who isn't playable in Smash yet, seeing as she was the headliner of one of the Donkey Kong Country games, and a big deal was made about her return in Tropical Freeze. (I suppose an argument could be made for Cranky, but it doesn't seem like there's a huge demand for him yet) Even during the Smash 4 days, there was a big debate over whether K. Rool or Dixie should be the next Donkey Kong character, though I don't know how that was reflected in the entries for the Smash Ballot.

Want: 90% - while she's not in my top ten most wanted, she's probably about 11 or 12. It just seems weird that she hasn't been included in Smash's playable roster - her and some form of Toad (regular Toad or Captain Toad) seem like the last big long-running Nintendo all-stars who haven't made it into Smash yet.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

With most of the discussions were focused on "relevance" more than moveset or importance. Thank god we don't have to go through that again now that he and made it in.
But I would argue was 's equivalent and DK was left lagging behind until Ultimate. Also many people were not bringing up Bandana Dee to compare him to other Kirby reps before, in Smash 4's days it was debated over and over again how he wasn't really a main character and 3 Kirby characters were enough. When Battle Royale and Star Allies were released, that argument doesn't hold up anymore and then it became how Marx was better (But then the boss happened and the support evaporated), and then the other Dream Friends (I've seen no support for any other one except Adeleine) which let us in the situation we are now, but the Dream Friend thing is really stretching it at this point. It's like the last one thing people opposing Dee have.

With Dixie those points A and B were completely debunked by now so I expected more discussion around her, but since she seems to have no problems or arguments against her, she's the most quiet and highly requested character I've ever seen. Which is weird.
The people that want her as 's echo have diminished substantially at least.


For Dixie's side special you could use a command grab ponytail, which could lead to a cargo throw or something else. Or she could be blasted forward with a barrel, or charge forward with Rambi (Since he was never made an Assist Trophy for who knows why reason).
Down Special could be Dixie bringing up Kiddy Kong to throw him as a heavy projectile (Or switch if they are a Tag Team but that idea is very divisive between all the supporters) or use the Guitar to make a poweful shockwave.
Those are ideas on top of my head.

See, I‘m extremely content with that and would cement Dixie‘s position as acrobat. I could make a whole fuss about how Down B is a stretch but when the rest just fits there’s no need to.

But, in the spirit of Dixie discussion I have the smartest idea: What if Helicopter Spin was her double jump + her Peach-like float and her Up B.......was a tether command grab with her hair. And her Down B was a barrel summon and the barrel would be tetherable?

 

[Dukemon102]

See, I‘m extremely content with that and would cement Dixie‘s position as acrobat. I could make a whole fuss about how Down B is a stretch but when the rest just fits there’s no need to.

But, in the spirit of Dixie discussion I have the smartest idea: What if Helicopter Spin was her double jump + her Peach-like float and her Up B.......was a tether command grab with her hair. And her Down B was a barrel summon and the barrel would be tetherable?

You see, there is actually two different helicopter spins, the one from DKC2 and 3 in which she spins her whole body to glide and fall very slowly.

Spoiler: Classic Helicopter Spin

Which I agree should function similar to 's float move. That's actually part of the moveset I suggested to the Support Thread.

And then there is the new Helicopter Spin from Tropical Freeze. Which you can see here in 0:15

Spoiler: Video

That causes her to ascent briefly before she falls. I think that one is the better suited for Up B.
Since Dixie is not Rapunzel, that tether recovery would be terrible. The recovery of the DK character known for ruling in the air shouldn't be that.

I didn't understand that down B idea at all.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

You see, there is actually two different helicopter spins, the one from DKC2 and 3 in which she spins her whole body to glide and fall very slowly.

Spoiler: Classic Helicopter Spin

View attachment 277287

Which I agree should function similar to 's float move. That's actually part of the moveset I suggested to the Support Thread.

And then there is the new Helicopter Spin from Tropical Freeze. Which you can see here in 0:15

Spoiler: Video

That causes her to ascent briefly before she falling. I think that one is the better suited for Up B.
Since Dixie is not Rapunzel, that tether recovery would be terrible. The recovery of the DK character known for ruling in the air shouldn't be that.

I didn't understand that down B idea at all.

Right, that’s why I said one Helicopter Spin can be a float-input and the other Tropical Freeze jump can be a double jump. The down B barrel would summon a barrel, the Up B would then be the command grab that could also catch these barrels.

 

[Dukemon102]

Right, that’s why I said one Helicopter Spin can be a float-input and the other Tropical Freeze jump can be a double jump. The down B barrel would summon a barrel, the Up B would then be the command grab that could also catch these barrels.

I'm being honest, I selfishly don't want a big double jump. I can't play , and well because of that thing, it always throws me off.
That down B and up B combination sounds like a novel idea, it's a more out of the box and Smash original (Since you never do that with barrels in DK games, you just jump into them), but I like it.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

I'm being honest, I selfishly don't want a big double jump. I can't play , and well because of that thing, it always throws me off.
That down B and up B combination sounds like a novel idea, it's a more out of the box and Smash original (Since you never do that with barrels in DK games, you just jump into them), but I like it.

Maybe the barrels (or something else, like one of the Animal Buddies) could be a grapple point that Dixie can hold onto and swing from like the stereotypical vine-swing but with her hair.

 

[fogbadge]

you can always rely on bandana and dixie to generate plenty of discussion

 

[Iko MattOrr]

Holy wow I didn't know about these. Can we have these pinned everytime we talk about Bandana Dee because this alone kills the "too little moveset" and "Not unique enough" arguments. The elemental abilities alone sound so cool and very unique.

That's news to me. In my post I was talking about cool gameplay gimmicks being a reason I might play a character, and this is one isn't bad. Does he have to get hit with the attack of just be near the element to use it? Can he do this in every game?

Elemental abilities are a core mechanics of Kirby Star Allies: King Dedede and Metaknight can do it as well in that game along with countless other characters and Kirby himself, it's not exclusive to Bandana Waddle Dee and the skill is not iconic to him either. If they want to represent the elemental abilities in Smash it makes more sense to use someone like the Three Mage Sisters who are representative of elements in that game.

The parasol waterball thing ok, but I think that it would be a big stretch (and a bad idea) to base BWD's moveset on the elemental attacks from Star Allies... it would be like giving the Mario power-ups to Toad because he can use them in the NSMB games/3D World, even though those moves are not iconic to him and he has its own spin-offs and roles in main games to take inspiration from instead.

Well in case of Toad, the only Mario power up that I see as iconic to him is the helicopter hat from NSMBWii, all the others would feel out of place IMO.

(If Toad is a bad example, think of Peach and Rosalina, it's like putting fire flower in their moveset).

 

[fogbadge]

Elemental abilities are a core mechanics of Kirby Star Allies: King Dedede and Metaknight can do it as well in that game along with countless other characters and Kirby himself, it's not exclusive to Bandana Waddle Dee and the skill is not iconic to him either. If they want to represent the elemental abilities in Smash it makes more sense to use someone like the Three Mage Sisters who are representative of elements in that game.

The parasol waterball thing ok, but I think that it would be a big stretch (and a bad idea) to base BWD's moveset on the elemental attacks from Star Allies... it would be like giving the Mario power-ups to Toad because he can use them in the NSMB games/3D World, even though those moves are not iconic to him and he has its own spin-offs and roles in main games to take inspiration from instead.

Well in case of Toad, the only Mario power up that I see as iconic to him is the helicopter hat from NSMBWii, all the others would feel out of place IMO.

hey dont you drag toad into this

 

[Iko MattOrr]

hey dont you drag toad into this

I edited it too late, anyway

(If Toad is a bad example, think of Peach and Rosalina, it's like putting fire flower in their moveset).

 

[fogbadge]

I edited it too late, anyway

so i take you object to ness and lucas' movesets where they use someone else's moves and byleth's where they use weapons that arent iconically theirs?

 

[Royalty1702]

Elemental abilities are a core mechanics of Kirby Star Allies: King Dedede and Metaknight can do it as well in that game along with countless other characters and Kirby himself, it's not exclusive to Bandana Waddle Dee and the skill is not iconic to him either. If they want to represent the elemental abilities in Smash it makes more sense to use someone like the Three Mage Sisters who are representative of elements in that game.

The parasol waterball thing ok, but I think that it would be a big stretch (and a bad idea) to base BWD's moveset on the elemental attacks from Star Allies... it would be like giving the Mario power-ups to Toad because he can use them in the NSMB games/3D World, even though those moves are not iconic to him and he has its own spin-offs and roles in main games to take inspiration from instead.

Well in case of Toad, the only Mario power up that I see as iconic to him is the helicopter hat from NSMBWii, all the others would feel out of place IMO.

(If Toad is a bad example, think of Peach and Rosalina, it's like putting fire flower in their moveset).

Not entirely comparable, but Rosalina's Down-Special isn't even used by her in SMG 1/2. It's a core mechanic by the player (Mario). I personally don't care for Elemental Weapons though.

 

[Iko MattOrr]

so i take you object to ness and lucas' movesets where they use someone else's moves and byleth's where they use weapons that arent iconically theirs?

They don't feel out of place though.
It's a matter of fitting the theme of the character. Bandana Waddle Dee is not about elements, just like Metaknight and Dedede aren't too.

Ness and Lucas are about ESP powers, their attacks are ESP, those are not their own attacks canon-wise but they still fit the overall theme of the character.
Rosalina has used fire flowers in Mario 3D world but fire flower in Rosalina's moveset would feel extremely out of place regardless, because her character is about galaxies and lumas.

 

[Troykv]

so i take you object to ness and lucas' movesets where they use someone else's moves and byleth's where they use weapons that arent iconically theirs?

I think they get the benefit of the doubt because their PK that are offensive in nature are very limited; Only really PK Rockin and Flash (Ness) and PK Love (Lucas) which are still part of their moveset (specially with Lucas, where pretty much any of his attacks that aren't a Special, a grab or S-Smash has PK Love-like effects).

And well and applying to Byleth too, the attacks and weapons overall fit the design which was going on with their movesets.

We don't know how Bandana Dee would be oriented.

 

[fogbadge]

They don't feel out of place though.
It's a matter of fitting the theme of the character. Bandana Waddle Dee is not about elements, just like Metaknight and Dedede aren't too.

Ness and Lucas are about ESP powers, their attacks are ESP, those are not their own attacks canon-wise but they still fit the overall theme of the character.
Rosalina has used fire flowers in Mario 3D world but fire flower in Rosalina's moveset would feel extremely out of place regardless, because her character is about galaxies and lumas.

This is starting to sound like a double standard. Many characters use moves not exclusive to them and moves that they don’t use but that’s ok cause it fits with their theme, but elemental power ups don’t work for bandanas hypothetical move set cause it’s not in keeping with a non existent theme

 

[Iko MattOrr]

This is starting to sound like a double standard. Many characters use moves not exclusive to them and moves that they don’t use but that’s ok cause it fits with their theme, but elemental power ups don’t work for bandanas hypothetical move set cause it’s not in keeping with a non existent theme

Well I tried to explain it, if you still can't see it, I'm sorry.

So are you saying that Bandana Dee does not have any theme? I'm not sure about that... honestly I think that he has a theme and at least in my opinion there's no place for magical skills (like imbuing an element to his weapon) in that theme, he's not a wizard, he's a simple warrior and simplicity is his focus design-wise.

Nothing against him shooting waterballs from the parasol, but that's the most I can see as fitting for him element-wise.

 

[Megadoomer]

They don't feel out of place though.
It's a matter of fitting the theme of the character. Bandana Waddle Dee is not about elements, just like Metaknight and Dedede aren't too.

Ness and Lucas are about ESP powers, their attacks are ESP, those are not their own attacks canon-wise but they still fit the overall theme of the character.
Rosalina has used fire flowers in Mario 3D world but fire flower in Rosalina's moveset would feel extremely out of place regardless, because her character is about galaxies and lumas.

The main problem with this "not fitting the theme of the character" is that it's incredibly subjective. Some people felt that Ridley being playable "didn't fit the theme of the character" because he was supposed to be big, monstrous, and borderline impossible to kill. Or that Animal Crossing having a playable character in Smash wouldn't fit its theme because it's a completely non-violent game.

The Kirby games (at least after Super Star and Dream Land 2) put a lot of emphasis on friendship and working together. Considering that Bandana Dee (among other characters in Star Allies) gets these power-ups from his friends, it seems fine to me, but I can see why people might potentially have issues with the idea.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

This is starting to sound like a double standard. Many characters use moves not exclusive to them and moves that they don’t use but that’s ok cause it fits with their theme, but elemental power ups don’t work for bandanas hypothetical move set cause it’s not in keeping with a non existent theme

Bandana Dee can very well use Elemental Powers, it would just be weird to have the central mechanic of the character be something not exclusive to him nor from his most important role. Nothing hypocritical about that. It’s as if Shulk would use Riki’s Nopin magic as his core mechanic. Sure, others take and adapt moves from others, but as a central mechanic I;d prefer something central to the character instead of something he shares with others in one game

EDIT: Like, didn’t we just establish that Bandana Dee exists beyond Star Allies? It’s not his central game. Elemental magic is a gimmick exclusive to that game. Saying Bandana Dee doesn’t depend on his Star Allies role and exedes the game, while taking the mechanic from the game as his own is more hypocritical than saying “Ness uses PSI moves from others to augment his PSI-based moveset so that’s the same as Bandana Dee taking a game’s common, shared mechanic as a core mechanic for his own moveset.“

You can have it as inspiration in conjunction with other moves (like the Splash Parasol or the Beam Scepter having zappy qualities) but as a central gimmick, Bandana Dee simply isn’t known for his element bending powers.

 

[fogbadge]

Well I tried to explain it, if you still can't see it, I'm sorry.

So are you saying that Bandana Dee does not have any theme? I'm not sure about that... honestly I think that he has a theme and at least in my opinion there's no place for magical skills (like imbuing an element to his weapon) in that theme, he's not a wizard, he's a simple warrior and simplicity is his focus design-wise.

Nothing against him shooting waterballs from the parasol, but that's the most I can see as fitting for him element-wise.

no I just fail to see how any character using any ability of theirs would feel out of place just because they share it with another character or that it’s somehow not in keeping with most of their appearances.

you must hate fox and falcon cause their moves don’t really fit their themes

 

[JCKirbs]

Elemental abilities are a core mechanics of Kirby Star Allies: King Dedede and Metaknight can do it as well in that game along with countless other characters and Kirby himself, it's not exclusive to Bandana Waddle Dee and the skill is not iconic to him either. If they want to represent the elemental abilities in Smash it makes more sense to use someone like the Three Mage Sisters who are representative of elements in that game.

The parasol waterball thing ok, but I think that it would be a big stretch (and a bad idea) to base BWD's moveset on the elemental attacks from Star Allies... it would be like giving the Mario power-ups to Toad because he can use them in the NSMB games/3D World, even though those moves are not iconic to him and he has its own spin-offs and roles in main games to take inspiration from instead.

Well in case of Toad, the only Mario power up that I see as iconic to him is the helicopter hat from NSMBWii, all the others would feel out of place IMO.

(If Toad is a bad example, think of Peach and Rosalina, it's like putting fire flower in their moveset).

Well, perhaps Elementals are more of a toss-up in this case. Just like Beam-based attacks.

Regardless though, I'd say that he still has enough personal moves and abilities for a moveset without them.

Although, alongside Aqua Shot, maybe his Parasol could be fitted with some "Splash" elemental effects at the very least for some additional flair, perhaps for when you hit the sweet spot/tipper of the Parasol when you attack.

 

[Royalty1702]

Well, perhaps Elementals are more of a toss-up in this case. Just like Beam-based attacks.

I still don't get why Beam is apart of the moveset conversation when BWD has NEVER used Beam in the games.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

Honestly speaking of core mechanics from games not exclusive to Bandana Dee he could always have a Parasol Waddle Dee and Waddle Doo as his helpers that supply him with their respective weapons, taking however that works directly from Super Star and Star Allies. Seems like a common enough mechanic in Kirby to do this kind of semi-pair up/minion idea.

Beam is part of the convo cause Bandana Dee needs to do something beyond stab up, stab down, stab forwards. Parasol helps but I think a stunning, whiplike beam could really help giving attacks like the Spear Copter some more pizazz. I think lasers are neat

 

[NintenRob]

I still don't get why Beam is apart of the moveset conversation when BWD has NEVER used Beam in his games.

Waddle Doos are waddle Dee cousins

 

[Megadoomer]

I still don't get why Beam is apart of the moveset conversation when BWD has NEVER used Beam in the games.

Waddle Dee transformed into a Waddle Doo in Kirby 64, and Kirby uses the Beam ability from a staff/wand? I'm not sure; I'm just guessing here.

 

[Iko MattOrr]

no I just fail to see how any character using any ability of theirs would feel out of place just because they share it with another character or that it’s somehow not in keeping with most of their appearances.

you must hate fox and falcon cause their moves don’t really fit their themes

That was not my point anyway.

 

[JCKirbs]

Waddle Dee transformed into a Waddle Doo in Kirby 64, and Kirby uses the Beam ability from a staff/wand? I'm not sure; I'm just guessing here.

Yeah, it's sort of a stretch because Waddle Dees and Doos are kinda similar, therefore since Bandana Dee represents the Waddle Dee species (therefore drawing from what Waddle Dees have utilized in the past) people have merged Waddle Doos into that representation as well (therefore believing that Bandana Dee could draw from them and the Beam ability as well).

Ironically, this might make elemental abilities more viable since Bandana Dee actually used them, but they still don't exactly define him.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

Okay Side B idea for Dixie Kong, and let me tell you, it’s a stupid one.

Parry.

But. Instead of just flying above Dixie, they can be grappled to with Dixie‘s hair with like a follow up input in which case she uses it like a vine swing with the whole cliche building momentum to swing around idea. Parry would fly in the direction Dixie is swinging in and if you build up enough momentum, Dixie can do a full 360 spin around Parry for like a big damage move. It’s acrobatic, queen of the air stuff and involves animal buddies.

no I just fail to see how any character using any ability of theirs would feel out of place just because they share it with another character or that it’s somehow not in keeping with most of their appearances.

you must hate fox and falcon cause their moves don’t really fit their themes

Fox and Falcon are old movesets, yet they embody the speed and feel of their original game. Also, just because you can name two sets from the OG Smash that were designed with limited resources doesn’t mean that every idea can be baselessly used in a moveset. Arguing based on the exceptions and lowest common denominators of Smash doesn’t a compelling argument make, especially when you try to argue that Bandana Dee can stand his own in building a compelling moveset core instead of having to borrow like the characters not seen outside of their vehicles before Smash Bros 64.

EDIT: Again, I’m fully on board with Bandana Dee using the elements in conjunction with other abilities he has. The Parasol that gives the Splash-element can and should use it. Rule of cool dictates that and there’s precedence from the Aqua Shot. If he uses the Beam, then add zap to the list! That’s like Ness using PK Fire and fun! But I’m against using elemental swapping as his central mechanic cause it isn’t central to his abilities or appearances in the kirby games.

 

[JCKirbs]

Okay Side B idea for Dixie Kong, and let me tell you, it’s a stupid one.

Parry.

But. Instead of just flying above Dixie, they can be grappled to with Dixie‘s hair with like a follow up input in which case she uses it like a vine swing with the whole cliche building momentum to swing around idea. Parry would fly in the direction Dixie is swinging in and if you build up enough momentum, Dixie can do a full 360 spin around Parry for like a big damage move. It’s acrobatic, queen of the air stuff and involves animal buddies.



Fox and Falcon are old movesets, yet they embody the speed and feel of their original game. Also, just because you can name two sets from the OG Smash that were designed with limited resources doesn’t mean that every idea can be baselessly used in a moveset. Arguing based on the exceptions and lowest common denominators of Smash doesn’t a compelling argument make, especially when you try to argue that Bandana Dee can stand his own in building a compelling moveset core instead of having to borrow like the characters not seen outside of their vehicles before Smash Bros 64.

EDIT: Again, I’m fully on board with Bandana Dee using the elements in conjunction with other abilities he has. The Parasol that gives the Splash-element can and should use it. Rule of cool dictates that and there’s precedence from the Aqua Shot. If he uses the Beam, then add zap to the list! That’s like Ness using PK Fire and fun! But I’m against using elemental swapping as his central mechanic cause it isn’t central to his abilities or appearances in the kirby games.

That's basically why I suggested subtle implementations of Elementals activated under certain circumstances at this point if they aren't reasonably viable to be a central part of his moveset.

Between using his Spear, Parasol, and Megaton Punch moves (along with Beam if we can technically go there), he already has enough potential for a moveset that brings something new to Smash.

 

[SharkLord]

Well I tried to explain it, if you still can't see it, I'm sorry.

So are you saying that Bandana Dee does not have any theme? I'm not sure about that... honestly I think that he has a theme and at least in my opinion there's no place for magical skills (like imbuing an element to his weapon) in that theme, he's not a wizard, he's a simple warrior and simplicity is his focus design-wise.

Nothing against him shooting waterballs from the parasol, but that's the most I can see as fitting for him element-wise.

Gonna have to side with Iko here. Bandana Dee's whole shtick is that he's an average Waddle Dee who climbed to the top with sheer determination and dedication. His spear isn't magical in nature like Meta Knight's Galaxia, and he hasn't used a souped-up mechanical alternative like Dedede either. Heck, he even throws those spears without any hesitation, then pulls another out of nowhere. He's not really the type to use any unique, wacky weaponry.

no I just fail to see how any character using any ability of theirs would feel out of place just because they share it with another character or that it’s somehow not in keeping with most of their appearances.

you must hate fox and falcon cause their moves don’t really fit their themes

I'd argue that it does suit them. Star Fox is in a futuristic space setting, so the lasers and reflectors fit right in. Same with Byleth; They can use any weapon type the player desires, and the four main weapons of Three Houses are all Relics with similar aesthetics, so none of them stick out too much. Rosalina uses the unique mechanics of her debut game, Super Mario Galaxy, because it wouldn't fit Mario as a whole, and Palutena uses the powers of Kid Icarus: Uprising because she supplies that, and Pit uses the weapons because that's on him to use. It doesn't need to be something a character can do, as long as it fits in with their general theme.

I still don't get why Beam is apart of the moveset conversation when BWD has NEVER used Beam in the games.

It's mostly because of the relation between Dees and Doos, though I feel that's kind of a stretch. Doos shoot their beam whips out of their one giant eye, something Bandana Dee lacks. He could also use the beam scepter, but that's not something really associated with the character, nor Dees as a species, and it would stick out like a sore thumb.

 

[FancySmash]

Shantae Kong

Chance: 20%
IMO, there are three characters that are long overdo for Smash, and two of them are being rated today. Dixie Kong was almost in Brawl, but got the boot at the last minute because a tag team between her and Diddy couldn't be made to work. Ever since then, Dixie just can't seem to catch a break. I would say that K. Rool's inclusion is a slight hit to her, but we also got Chrom and Byleth in this game, even if Chrom was just an echo character. Still, there's demand for her and that should honestly go a long way.

Want: 75%
I'll be honest, I don't have much exposure with Dixie. I did play DKC2, but I skipped out on her game, DKC3. I also didn't get to play with her much in Tropical Freeze, since players were mainly restricted to DK in that game (or Funky if your playing an "all new mode"), and, for some baffling reason that I never understood, Dixie was arbitrarily replaced with Tiny in DK64. Even with my limited exposure to Dixie Kong, I still think she's one of the most deserving 1st party choices left out there.

Kinda has the role of Escargoon from the anime

Chance: 25%
I think Bandana Dee's chances are just a bit higher than Dixie because of two reasons. One, Kirby didn't get a playable character that competes with him in the base game. Two, Bandana Dee is arguably the most popular 1st Party character choice for DLC at the moment. I mean, that kinda surprises me, I never would've thought the same character so many people gave trouble for being "hat goomba" would ever get into a position where it could be argued that they are the most popular 1st Party choice. Also, if Kirby is getting a game soon, perhaps a tie in promotion could happen. Kirby hasn't gone 3D yet...

Want: 100%
I love that this little guy has come so far. He is without a doubt, the character I want the most in Smash. After him, I'd be perfectly OK with the roster, and Sakurai could add anyone his heart desires. Sure, I don't think this character would come with a gimmick, but Smash was never about whether or not a character would have a gimmick to me. My favorite character from the last DLC was Banjo, and he felt the most like a traditional Smash fighter out of the entire pass. Sometimes it's OK to just like simplicity.

 

[Hollywoodrok12]

Dixie:

Chance: 1%.
Want 20%.

I don't see Dixie happening for two reasons. First, I don't think Nintendo would see much need for another DK rep, let alone one who would potentially be an echo fighter.

Edit: I got so caught up in Bandana Dee's stuff I forgot to finish Dixie. I also don't see Nintendo picking another DK rep when they could go for more beneficial picks like Pokemon or 3rd Parties.

Second edit: Also she has a mii hat so she's kinda sorta maybe deconfirmed? I don't know if that counts because it's just a hat.

I don't care for Dixie. She's a good pick, but I don't really care for the DK series. On top of that, her getting in would probably lower Shantae's chances on account of using a likely hair whip attack, which lowers my want score for her.

Bandana Dee:

Chance 0.5%
Want: 100%

Oh boy, Bandana Dee. Let me just say to any Bandana Dee fans, get ready for disappointment. If the ARMS rep means anything, Bandana Dee is dead in the water. "But spirits don't deconfirm anymore" Oh I'm not talking about that. Min Min was chosen because the creator/director wanted Min Min over Spring Man. So if the director/creator wants a character that isn't (arguably) the next logical choice for a rep, whoever is gets the royal boot. And guess who (I believe) the creator/director of both Smash and Kirby likes better than Bandana Dee? Marx, for a few reasons. He could have picked a lot of characters to be an AT and a Boss, but he picked Kawasaki and Marx, both from his games. Same with remixes. Only for his, with other games barely getting any (ported songs). Major characters like Bandana Dee, Magolor and Susie get a 3-star spirit at best. I really believe there's some kind of Sakurai-Era bias, be it intentional or not. Combine that with the huge fan beleif that Bandana Dee is only a goomba with a hat, and he's got a recipe for a Marx-flavored disaster, if we even get another Kirby rep, which is unlikely in and of itself, since Kirby hasn't gotten a fighter for a whopping twelve years. Remember the last time Pokemon's business strategy wasn't 99% shoving Kanto down fans' throats whether they like it or not. That was more recent than Kirby's last rep, and it shows no signs of changing, especially for a Modern Rep. And it sucks. Bandana Dee, for many, would have been the logical next step for Kirby, since he represents the modern games, and uses a spear, which is mostly unused in Smash (yes I know there's Byleth), and most importantly, he's the next main character. Now that Min Min, a non-main character who got in before the main character, and Byleth, a Spear user, are in, with Marx looming over the horizon, Bandana Dee has basically nothing left to stand on. There are characters I really like who are absolutely impossible for Smash that I call "Less likely than Goku", and Bandana Dee's one of them. I want him in, he's probably one of if not the most "deserving" character for Smash, but he's completely impossible, and no spirit deconfirmation rule dying (assuming we even get a 2nd spirit promotion) is gonna change that.

nom: FP2 is 3 Nintendo and 3 3rd Party x5

 

[NintenRob]

Dixie:

Chance: 1%.
Want 20%.

I don't see Dixie happening for two reasons. First, I don't think Nintendo would see much need for another DK rep, let alone one who would potentially be an echo fighter.

I don't care for Dixie. She's a good pick, but I don't really care for the DK series. On top of that, her getting in would probably lower Shantae's chances on account of using a likely hair whip attack, which lowers my want score for her.

Bandana Dee:

Chance 0.5%
Want: 100%

Oh boy, Bandana Dee. Let me just say to any Bandana Dee fans, get ready for disappointment. If the ARMS rep means anything, Bandana Dee is dead in the water. "But spirits don't deconfirm anymore" Oh I'm not talking about that. Min Min was chosen because the creator/director wanted Min Min over Spring Man. So if the director/creator wants a character that isn't (arguably) the next logical choice for a rep, whoever is gets the royal boot. And guess who (I believe) the creator/director of both Smash and Kirby likes better than Bandana Dee? Marx, for a few reasons. He could have picked a lot of characters to be an AT and a Boss, but he picked Kawasaki and Marx, both from his games. Same with remixes. Only for his, with other games barely getting any. Major characters like Bandana Dee, Magolor and Susie get a 3-star spirit at best. I really believe there's some kind of Sakurai-Era bias, be it intentional or not. Combine that with the huge fan beleif that Bandana Dee is only a goomba with a hat, and he's got a recipe for a Marx-flavored disaster, if we even get another Kirby rep, which is unlikely in and of itself, since Kirby hasn't gotten a fighter for a whopping twelve years. Remember the last time Pokemon's business strategy wasn't 99% shoving Kanto down fans' throats whether they like it or not. That was more recent than Kirby's last rep, and it shows no signs of changing, especially for a Modern Rep. And it sucks. Bandana Dee, for many, would have been the logical next step for Kirby, since he represents the modern games, and uses a spear, which is mostly unused in Smash (yes I know there's Byleth), and most importantly, he's the next main character. Now that Min Min, a non-main character who got in before the main character, and Byleth, a Spear user, are in, with Marx looming over the horizon, Bandana Dee has basically nothing left to stand on. There are characters I really like who are absolutely impossible for Smash that I call "Less likely than Goku", and Bandana Dee's one of them. I want him in, he's probably one of if not the most "deserving" character for Smash, but he's completely impossible, and no spirit deconfirmation rule dying (assuming we even get a 2nd spirit promotion) is gonna change that.

nom: FP2 is 3 Nintendo and 3 3rd Party x5

Sakurai isn't picking me characters for the pass, Nintendo is

 

[Hollywoodrok12]

Sakurai isn't picking me characters for the pass, Nintendo is

As shown by the ARMS rep, Sakurai and the creators still have a say in who, given the criteria. If they say "Kirby rep", Sakurai can say "Marx". And Kirby's not in a good spot either for Nintendo to want to promote it.

 

[SharkLord]

As shown by the ARMS rep, Sakurai and the creators still have a say in who, given the criteria. If they say "Kirby rep", Sakurai can say "Marx". And Kirby's not in a good spot either for Nintendo to want to promote it.

Sakurai doesn't direct Kirby anymore, Kumazaki does. If anything, he'll turn to Kumazaki to choose, and considering the series' current trends, it would probably be Bandana Dee.
It should also be noted that Bandana Dee is a regular high-ranker in polls, unlike any of the ARMS or Three Houses characters. Just because one of your most-wanteds didn't make the cut doesn't necessarily mean the timeline will distort itself just to make you suffer.

 

[JCKirbs]

Dixie:

Chance: 1%.
Want 20%.

I don't see Dixie happening for two reasons. First, I don't think Nintendo would see much need for another DK rep, let alone one who would potentially be an echo fighter.

Edit: I got so caught up in Bandana Dee's stuff I forgot to finish Dixie. I also don't see Nintendo picking another DK rep when they could go for more beneficial picks like Pokemon or 3rd Parties.

I don't care for Dixie. She's a good pick, but I don't really care for the DK series. On top of that, her getting in would probably lower Shantae's chances on account of using a likely hair whip attack, which lowers my want score for her.

Bandana Dee:

Chance 0.5%
Want: 100%

Oh boy, Bandana Dee. Let me just say to any Bandana Dee fans, get ready for disappointment. If the ARMS rep means anything, Bandana Dee is dead in the water. "But spirits don't deconfirm anymore" Oh I'm not talking about that. Min Min was chosen because the creator/director wanted Min Min over Spring Man. So if the director/creator wants a character that isn't (arguably) the next logical choice for a rep, whoever is gets the royal boot. And guess who (I believe) the creator/director of both Smash and Kirby likes better than Bandana Dee? Marx, for a few reasons. He could have picked a lot of characters to be an AT and a Boss, but he picked Kawasaki and Marx, both from his games. Same with remixes. Only for his, with other games barely getting any. Major characters like Bandana Dee, Magolor and Susie get a 3-star spirit at best. I really believe there's some kind of Sakurai-Era bias, be it intentional or not. Combine that with the huge fan beleif that Bandana Dee is only a goomba with a hat, and he's got a recipe for a Marx-flavored disaster, if we even get another Kirby rep, which is unlikely in and of itself, since Kirby hasn't gotten a fighter for a whopping twelve years. Remember the last time Pokemon's business strategy wasn't 99% shoving Kanto down fans' throats whether they like it or not. That was more recent than Kirby's last rep, and it shows no signs of changing, especially for a Modern Rep. And it sucks. Bandana Dee, for many, would have been the logical next step for Kirby, since he represents the modern games, and uses a spear, which is mostly unused in Smash (yes I know there's Byleth), and most importantly, he's the next main character. Now that Min Min, a non-main character who got in before the main character, and Byleth, a Spear user, are in, with Marx looming over the horizon, Bandana Dee has basically nothing left to stand on. There are characters I really like who are absolutely impossible for Smash that I call "Less likely than Goku", and Bandana Dee's one of them. I want him in, he's probably one of if not the most "deserving" character for Smash, but he's completely impossible, and no spirit deconfirmation rule dying (assuming we even get a 2nd spirit promotion) is gonna change that.

nom: FP2 is 3 Nintendo and 3 3rd Paruty x5

I already want Bandana Dee in Smash for several reasons but man, I might as well add "To soothe Hollywoodrok12's poor, aching heart" to the list at this point.

I completely disagree about even the thought of Marx potentially being in Smash at this point (as DLC), because haven't you noticed a pattern with the DLC characters so far?

That's right, no villains.

Why? Because they're not the star of the show. They play an important role, but the protagonists are always in the spotlight since the protagonists are who you typically control first-hand for platformers like Mario, DK, Yoshi, and Kirby.

Even Yabuki called all of the ARMS characters protagonists, possibly because they were all viable choices for Smash. (Dr. Coyle and Max Brass probably gave him funny faces for saying that, though).

Anyway, not to mention that Marx wouldn't cover a "new world" for Smash because he mainly pertains to the one game that is ceaselessly represented in Smash at this point.

It would be almost too redundant to separate Marx from his boss status, just to make him into a playable character which does nothing for the Kirby series in terms of representation.

It would only add a villain who isn't even the best one that they could've added. (Dark Matter is literally right there).

Not even Sakurai would be that dense to double-back and pander to Super Star all over again, especially when there is a new "pinnacle of the franchise" Kirby game on the horizon (which probably won't even feature Marx outside of cameos, but who knows).

If the stars are aligning for any Kirby character, it has got to be Bandana Dee at the the moment.

In other words, call me crazy but it really seems like Bandana Dee or Bust right now.

 

[SharkLord]

I already want Bandana Dee in Smash for several reasons but man, I might as well add "To soothe Hollywoodrok12's poor, aching heart" to the list at this point.

I completely disagree about even the thought of Marx potentially being in Smash at this point (as DLC), because haven't you noticed a pattern with the DLC characters so far?

That's right, no villains.

Why? Because they're not the star of the show. They play an important role, but the protagonists are always in the spotlight since the protagonists are who you typically control first-hand for platformers like Mario, DK, Yoshi, and Kirby.

Even Yabuki called all of the ARMS characters protagonists, possibly because they were all viable choices for Smash. (Dr. Coyle and Max Brass probably gave him funny faces for saying that, though).

Anyway, not to mention that Marx wouldn't cover a "new world" for Smash because he mainly pertains to the one game that is ceaselessly represented in Smash at this point.

It would be almost too redundant to separate Marx from his boss status, just to make him into a playable character which does nothing for the Kirby series in terms of representation.

It would only add a villain who isn't even the best one that they could've added. (Dark Matter is literally right there).

Not even Sakurai would be that dense to double-back and pander to Super Star all over again, especially when there is a new "pinnacle of the franchise" Kirby game on the horizon (which probably won't even feature Marx outside of cameos, but who knows).

If the stars are aligning for any Kirby character, it has got to be Bandana Dee at the the moment.

In other words, call me crazy but it really seems like Bandana Dee or Bust right now.

The whole "main protagonist only" thing doesn't matter anyways, since Bandana Dee is either the second player or a supporting NPC. So is Marx, for that matter; He was a boss, disappeared for a while, and became a playable character alongside practically every other character in the series. The main character is Kirby, followed by Meta Knight and Dedede. If we're not getting a main main character, that means no new Kirby rep.

 

[Sid-cada]

Bandanna Dee

Chance - 30% - Dee stands out as being the most popular first party request at this point in time. Even before Ultimate, there was significant demand for him, and now that more major requests have been either knocked out or included his demand has only intensified. At this point, they'd have to be fairly blind to not at least acknowledge his popularity. Kirby has somewhat lagged on characters, missing out on both the For series and Ultimate thus far, and the outcry for more modern Kirby representation has gotten to a point where Sakurai felt compelled to defend himself from his stage selection. Bandanna Dee thus far has been seen as a way to alleviate the problems of this. There are some major sticking points to him, though: First, Kirby's not in any particular spot to be promoted right now, with no major games that we know of on the horizon, so Nintedo has no reason to push for any Kirby character. Second, Sakurai Bias, while claimed to not be a thing here, has problems with evidence showing otherwise. Lastly, he could be passed in favor of a new franchise in order to expand the crossover. Combined with an uncertain DLC direction, Dee looks like he's in good shape, but no where near likley.

Want - 100% - My most wanted character gets reserved the 100% slot. With Kirby as my favorite franchise, why wouldn't I want the guy?


Dixie Kong

Chance - 20% - Dixie Kong is much like Bandanna Dee, except that they actually got a newcomer in the base game. Dixie has always been in K. Rool's shadow, and at this point many are still basking in the glory of his return. While Dixie is demanded, it's no where near the constant topping of the list Dee seems to have, and thus her demand seems to be less apparent. Other than that penalty, she seems to be an echo of Dee.

Want - 75% - Now that K. Rool is in, I'm fine with her. I have no strong attachment, but I can understand her importance, and it's fine for her fans to want her for so long.


Nominations

Monster Hunter X5