Rate Their Chances - Smash Ultimate Edition! Day 672: Five Most Likely First and Third Parties for Smash 6, and Final Goodbyes

[TheTuninator]

This has to be the most interesting character we've rated for a while, I mean how long has it been since we've had a lengthy debate like this? We're seeing a lot of high scores and low scores, so it's clear that there are different opinions on Reimu's chances besides an overwhelming majority agreeing on the same thing as what happens usually in this thread. It's hard to deny the legacy that Touhou spawned but it's possible to argue on how niche the series is outside of Japan.

In my opinion I believe that if Undertale managed to get some representation in Smash then at the very least Touhou is a topic that has crossed Nintendo and Sakurai's mind. Will it happen? We don't know. But is it possible? I certainly thinks so.

This is true! And who knows, maybe Toby Fox mentioned it to Sakurai, lol.

 

[Nquoid]

Just opened my laptop and found this Google Trends I had thought of using for evidence and thought it was pretty amusing.

So I would now like to unironically throw my support behind Annoying Goose

(if it's not too late) Nominate: Annoying Goose x5

 

[RealPokeFan11]

Just opened my laptop and found this Google Trends I had thought of using for evidence and thought it was pretty amusing.

View attachment 241301

So I would now like to unironically throw my support behind Annoying Goose

(if it's not too late) Nominate: Annoying Goose x5

All support is welcome, and it's definitely not too late

 

[Yoshi Kirishima]

Just opened my laptop and found this Google Trends I had thought of using for evidence and thought it was pretty amusing.

View attachment 241301

So I would now like to unironically throw my support behind Annoying Goose

(if it's not too late) Nominate: Annoying Goose x5

Besides Dragon Quest, which is a very large game series, you picked 3 games that are recent releases compared to Touhou which is a long running video game series.

Here's something that might be a more meaningful comparison, using multiple characters who have been highly requested in the Smash community.
As you can see, Touhou Project isn't that different from some big name series. (Btw, if you change Terry to Fatal Fury or King of Fighters, it still keeps it within the same area as the others.)

Not that Google Trends is the best or perfect way to indicate popularity, of course. It only indicates how many times it was searched recently.

By the way -- just leaving brief thoughts.

One reason why Touhou doesn't seem as big to many in the Smash community is because, just like with other PC game series, there has always been a rift between the PC gaming base and console gaming base. Just think of it -- you don't hear support for Jim Raynor or Arthas for Smash, despite being huge game icons from VERY huge and successful games with a big legacy. We only heard discussion about Tracer recently because of the Overwatch Switch port rumor. I wonder how many people here don't even know who Raynor is, or even Arthas? It doesn't mean they're not popular. Heavy is the only PC based character with a good amount of support in the Smash community that I can think of, but he still is requested way less than he is for how popular TF2 is, compared to other characters like Shantae. The reason again is because of different fanbases, and how PC gamers naturally don't overlap as well as console gamers do with each other, for obvious reasons.

Different communities is a thing. Things like # of subscribers on Reddit, etc., are not 1:1 representations of how popular someone is. Sites like Reddit for example, are heavily male dominated. Touhou as a game series has much more female fans than the average game series, and in my personal experience with many of my female gamer friends, they simply don't use the same platforms that male gamers do, or they spend much less time on them. They don't like arguing online with random people but instead just talking in their own friend circles. There are many factors that can affect perception of how popular something is, and there will never be 1 perfect metric to measure it accurately.

The big thing holding Reimu back is not her being "unpopular" in the West. She's definitely popular and is known among many communities, not just gaming, and she has many female and male fans, casual and hardcore. The thing holding her back the most is that she's from a PC gaming series with low accessibility. You can't officially buy and play the game on PC until recently, with Steam releases for a couple of the newer games, but they are not even translated to English. And we're only starting to get some games on the Switch now.

Smash DLC is about having big game icons join, but I think an implicit understanding with that is that the character must be associated with Nintendo to a degree, or at least "fit" the aesthetic easily in some way. They aren't going to add Arthas or some Dota or League character, for example.

 

[Deleted member]

Well goddamn the ratings for Reimu are skewed all over the place. I'm certainly intrigued to see who ends up winning predictions on Reimu for the net day.

 

[Nquoid]

Besides Dragon Quest, which is a very large game series, you picked 3 games that are recent releases compared to Touhou which is a long running video game series.

Here's something that might be a more meaningful comparison, using multiple characters who have been highly requested in the Smash community.
As you can see, Touhou Project isn't that different from some big name series. (Btw, if you change Terry to Fatal Fury or King of Fighters, it still keeps it within the same area as the others.)

Not that Google Trends is the best or perfect way to indicate popularity, of course. It only indicates how many times it was searched recently.

I kind of figured my use of Untitled Goose Game would go some ways to show that it definitely wasn't a serious use of Google Trends to back up my point...

 

[TCT~Phantom]

Kotor i don’t think highly of Byleth for Smash. I feel the design is mediocre and not distinct like the lords, and the Sword of the Creator does not visually pop out as unique as an axe bow or lance moveset. Petty but what I see.

 

[GoodGrief741]

Besides Dragon Quest, which is a very large game series, you picked 3 games that are recent releases compared to Touhou which is a long running video game series.

Here's something that might be a more meaningful comparison, using multiple characters who have been highly requested in the Smash community.
As you can see, Touhou Project isn't that different from some big name series. (Btw, if you change Terry to Fatal Fury or King of Fighters, it still keeps it within the same area as the others.)

Not that Google Trends is the best or perfect way to indicate popularity, of course. It only indicates how many times it was searched recently.

View attachment 241305



By the way -- just leaving brief thoughts.

One reason why Touhou doesn't seem as big to many in the Smash community is because, just like with other PC game series, there has always been a rift between the PC gaming base and console gaming base. Just think of it -- you don't hear support for Jim Raynor or Arthas for Smash, despite being huge game icons from VERY huge and successful games with a big legacy. We only heard discussion about Tracer recently because of the Overwatch Switch port rumor. I wonder how many people here don't even know who Raynor is, or even Arthas? It doesn't mean they're not popular. Heavy is the only PC based character with a good amount of support in the Smash community that I can think of, but he still is requested way less than he is for how popular TF2 is, compared to other characters like Shantae. The reason again is because of different fanbases, and how PC gamers naturally don't overlap as well as console gamers do with each other, for obvious reasons.

Different communities is a thing. Things like # of subscribers on Reddit, etc., are not 1:1 representations of how popular someone is. Sites like Reddit for example, are heavily male dominated. Touhou as a game series has much more female fans than the average game series, and in my personal experience with many of my female gamer friends, they simply don't use the same platforms that male gamers do, or they spend much less time on them. They don't like arguing online with random people but instead just talking in their own friend circles. There are many factors that can affect perception of how popular something is, and there will never be 1 perfect metric to measure it accurately.

The big thing holding Reimu back is not her being "unpopular" in the West. She's definitely popular and is known among many communities, not just gaming, and she has many female and male fans, casual and hardcore. The thing holding her back the most is that she's from a PC gaming series with low accessibility. You can't officially buy and play the game on PC until recently, with Steam releases for a couple of the newer games, but they are not even translated to English. And we're only starting to get some games on the Switch now.

Smash DLC is about having big game icons join, but I think an implicit understanding with that is that the character must be associated with Nintendo to a degree, or at least "fit" the aesthetic easily in some way. They aren't going to add Arthas or some Dota or League character, for example.

Google Trends is a really poor indicator for popularity, since it might imply either that a lot of people care about something or that a lot of people don't know about something. Also, you might wanna remove Banjo since that spike really removes perspective - the others might be very far apart from a closer perspective.

The point about PC gaming, though, is on point. Though I'd struggle to say the characters you mentioned (save Heavy) are iconic, there has historically been a huge disconnect between PC and console audiences, with many seminal PC franchises being exclusive. You'd think Touhou would buck the trend, though, given its stylized characters are more in line with console sensibilities, and it being just a few degrees removed from console shmups.

Makes you think how different the reception would be if Touhou had a history with consoles, maybe it and not Cave Story would have been the one to spur the indie scene.

 

[Ornl]

Google Trends is a really poor indicator for popularity, since it might imply either that a lot of people care about something or that a lot of people don't know about something.

Care about something and discover something contribute to making popular this thing. Researches makes something unknown becomes known. This helps the subject to be in the popular culture. If someone wants to know the trends of a character or a series, then Google Trends is the best possible tool (or the least worst) to measure trends.

 

[GoodGrief741]

Care about something and discover something contribute to making popular this thing. Researches makes something unknown becomes known. This helps the subject to be in the popular culture. If someone wants to know the trends of a character or a series, then Google Trends is the best possible tool (or the least worst) to measure trends.

As if having to research something made it popular. It's been shown time after time that when people have to Google a character, their reaction to them isn't positive.

 

[Ornl]

It's been shown time after time that when people have to Google a character, their reaction to them isn't positive.

I think that asserting is only an opinion, not a generality.
The top 10 Google trends third-party series in the world is: Minecraft > Overwatch > Final Fantasy > Halo > Sonic / Resident Evil > Assassin's Creed > Pac-Man > Dragon Quest > Monster Hunter.
The top 10 Google trends third-party series in Japan is: Dragon Quest > Monster Hunter > Yo-kai Watch > Minecraft > Final Fantasy > Touhou Project > Tales of > Resident Evil > Metal Gear / Persona.
This seems to me consistent, although the Google Trends method is less effective about series that are dead (like Space Invaders for example).

 

[Troykv]

I think that asserting is only an opinion, not a generality.
The top 10 Google trends third-party series in the world is: Minecraft > Overwatch > Final Fantasy > Halo > Sonic / Resident Evil > Assassin's Creed > Pac-Man > Dragon Quest > Monster Hunter.
The top 10 Google trends third-party series in Japan is: Dragon Quest > Monster Hunter > Yo-kai Watch > Minecraft > Final Fantasy > Touhou Project > Tales of > Resident Evil > Metal Gear / Persona.
This seems to me consistent, although the Google Trends method is less effective about series that are dead (like Space Invaders for example).

Dragon Quest keeps showinig how big they're in Japan; damn, that franchise is a very big deal.

 

[GoodGrief741]

I think that asserting is only an opinion, not a generality.
The top 10 Google trends third-party series in the world is: Minecraft > Overwatch > Final Fantasy > Halo > Sonic / Resident Evil > Assassin's Creed > Pac-Man > Dragon Quest > Monster Hunter.
The top 10 Google trends third-party series in Japan is: Dragon Quest > Monster Hunter > Yo-kai Watch > Minecraft > Final Fantasy > Touhou Project > Tales of > Resident Evil > Metal Gear / Persona.
This seems to me consistent, although the Google Trends method is less effective about series that are dead (like Space Invaders for example).

I forgot who I was attempting to talk to. My bad.

 

[Artix]

Wow. This has to be the longest debate I have ever seen in this thread. Even the debates on Saber during her day wasn't this long.

I guess it shows that many people are supportive for Reimu.

 

[Yoshi Kirishima]

I kind of figured my use of Untitled Goose Game would go some ways to show that it definitely wasn't a serious use of Google Trends to back up my point...

My bad for not catching that, and thanks for clarifying lol. I'm sure you understand though as there are many people out there who might genuinely hold an opinion like that

Sorry if I'm doing something wrong, but just to do this quick...
(And apologies for the formatting I really just want to put a rating out for fun).

Chances that Reimu will be in Smash: 25%
(I'm assuming there will be at least a third DLC pack and that each pack will have 5 characters, so we have 11 left, but if we have only 6 left then I would say her chances are 5%):

Touhou has legacy (going back to 1996) on a unique system (not really a console, but still) called the PC-98. Touhou's influential for bullet hells or any games with curtain fire elements. The series is popular worldwide among many different communities and demographics. Because of the crazy amount of passion and the size of its dedicated fanbase, Touhou has seeped into pop culture, at least in Japan, and there have been viral videos or memes throughout the years. It's a long running series with new games still coming out and has releases coming on Steam and Switch. It would be easy for Nintendo to get the rights to her, saving time and money. Reimu is already popular for being in many cross-overs and making guest appearances in many places. Touhou is pretty marketable because it's cute, and it's pretty popular for merchandise. Its modestly designed, cute characters and non-offensive content has helped its widespread appeal. She has unique game mechanics that would be interesting to translate into Smash. Sakurai loves shooter games and he must know about Touhou and have some kind of respect for it, and he might really enjoy designing a shmup/bullet hell character. Touhou is a 3rd party franchise that is only starting to release on Nintendo consoles, but by adding Reimu into Smash, it would gain a lot of media buzz and attract a new and very dedicated fanbase to possibly buying the Switch and Ultimate and her as DLC, which they have stated is their goal and direction for selecting DLC newcomers (other than the occasional highly requested fan favorite like Banjo). We have not gotten a single female DLC fighter yet and I believe we should get at least 1, and the only other real choices I can think of are characters like Arle, 2B, Jill Valentine, Tracer, or Shantae, making her chances 1 out of 6 by this line of thinking. Touhou's aesthetic would fit easily into Smash. Touhou is popular for its music, and I'm sure the Smash music team would love to make remixes of its music, and I'm sure that since it's Touhou, ZUN would have no issues with allowing as much music into the game as the composers want to make and as much as Sakurai decides to allow.

Touhou satisfies all the priorities and conditions of being a great DLC pick. Its biggest hurdle, as I mentioned briefly earlier and elaborated more on in the Reimu specific thread, is the rift between the PC gaming and console gaming base. We have yet to have a PC character added to Smash, so if she's added she would be the first. Because of her aesthetic though, and that fans of Touhou overlap with Nintendo more than probably say, fans of Blizzard games, if a PC character is to make it in then she's one of the best contenders (along with her being in cross-overs all over). The second biggest drawback, which is still significant but much much less important than the first hurdle, is that it's much more popular in Japan than in other regions. When you think of characters like Banjo who were added because of their high popularity in one or more regions rather than worldwide, this is really not a big drawback for Reimu. It is simply her 2nd biggest drawback because she excels on average on every other aspect.

Want Reimu: 100%

 

[Plank08]

I HIGHLY doubt reimu will happen, I mean, if you look in the grand scheme of things, Shovel Knight and Shantae seem like more worldwide options then Reimu, who’s only really popular in Japan.

 

[Jomosensual]

I HIGHLY doubt reimu will happen, I mean, if you look in the grand scheme of things, Shovel Knight and Shantae seem like more worldwide options then Reimu, who’s only really popular in Japan.

Yeah, thats one thing I really can't get past. Shovel Knight and Shantae were way more requested and they were made an AT and spirit. Sans was a little late for the ballot(or at least I think, believe Undertale came out right around the same time the ballot was a thing) but even though he became super popular pre release, was requested a lot in the base roster, AND Sakurai is friendly with the creator and that still only got Sans a Mii Costume and a song. Point being, it's pretty obvious that the bar for indie characters is set really,really, high and I'm not convinced that Reimu is the character setting that bar, especially if Shovel Knight and Shantae couldn't get in after the support they've had for a while.

 

[Sid-cada]

Reimu

Chance - 7.5% - She's in a very interesting spot when it comes to characters. As of right now, there are three games on the switch for Touhou, with at least two of them having physical releases.

(image taken from reddit)

Yet none of them are actual, official games in the series, instead being fan games from overseas that got permission to be ported and translated without official oversight.

We also have word that the most recent fighting game is being potentially ported over, but that has not happened as of yet.

So is it enough for Sakurai and the rest of the Team to go ahead? I'm not certain, but I do think that's the biggest obstacle.

If it were not for that, I'd think she'd probably be one of the biggest contenders for playable status. He status as queen of both dojin and bullet hells means that her mark on history is strong, and she'd definitely seem like the "break the internet" type of reveals they are trying to set out for.

Want - 60% - I like the series, don't get me wrong, but I haven't actually put much thought into her inclusion. I have been stewing on this for a while, but I still can feel anything but bewilderment about it. The only way I feel I can truly know how to feel about it is the pipedream of her actually getting in.


Nominations

Farmer X5

 

[Sc_Ev0lution]

Last I checked there were 6 Touhou fan games on the eshop iirc, with a few more on the way, though I believe your correct on only 2 having physical releases. Not that the quantity changes their status as fan games...

 

[Kotor]

Reimu

Chance - 7.5% - She's in a very interesting spot when it comes to characters. As of right now, there are three games on the switch for Touhou, with at least two of them having physical releases.
View attachment 241325
(image taken from reddit)

Yet none of them are actual, official games in the series, instead being fan games from overseas that got permission to be ported and translated without official oversight.

We also have word that the most recent fighting game is being potentially ported over, but that has not happened as of yet.

So is it enough for Sakurai and the rest of the Team to go ahead? I'm not certain, but I do think that's the biggest obstacle.

If it were not for that, I'd think she'd probably be one of the biggest contenders for playable status. He status as queen of both dojin and bullet hells means that her mark on history is strong, and she'd definitely seem like the "break the internet" type of reveals they are trying to set out for.

Want - 60% - I like the series, don't get me wrong, but I haven't actually put much thought into her inclusion. I have been stewing on this for a while, but I still can feel anything but bewilderment about it. The only way I feel I can truly know how to feel about it is the pipedream of her actually getting in.


Nominations

Farmer X5

There's technically four that I am aware of. The fourth being Azure Reflections. We have to at least consider how many Touhou games actually include the Touhou name.

 

[GoodGrief741]

Last I checked there were 6 Touhou fan games on the eshop iirc, with a few more on the way, though I believe your correct on only 2 having physical releases. Not that the quantity changes their status as fan games...

To be fair a Touhou fangame has a lot more weight than one for another franchise. Hell, for one, they're selling those on the eShop and physically with no repercussions.

 

[Troykv]

Reimu Hakurei:

Chance: 30%

Reimu is a very interesting position, while I can't give her a higher score because indies aren't exactly confirmed to be possible as playable characters, Touhou has some quite ideal elements to be at least a franchise to consider. Like having lasting impact and seniority. The fact we have indie contact at all it's benefitial for Reimu regardless of the circunstances, and Touhou appearing in some way or another is far from impossible.

Want: 70%

I like this wacky franchise, it has a lot of weird stuff to see in between canonic and semi-canonic stuff xD

____

Predictions:

Jin Kazama: 10.1%

Nominations:

Micaiah (Fire Emblem) x5

 

[Neosonic97]

I'll admit, a lot of my reasons for placing Reimu at 100% hinge quite heavily on a few uncertain factors, but I'm firmly of this belief.

...Well, I say that, but it's ONE factor in particular.

I don't see Spirits or Assist Trophies getting promoted. That means no Shadow (sadly), no Isaac, no Waluigi, no Rayman, and most notably, no Shovel Knight and no Shantae. Mii Costumes are a bit trickier, but I've believed that Sans never really had a chance anyway.

With Shovel Knight and Shantae out of the way, that leaves me with three indies I think could feasibly take the spot.

Those being Gunvolt (from Azure Striker Gunvolt), Quote (from Cave Story) and of course, Reimu (from Touhou Project).

Of those, I think Reimu is far and away the best choice. Cave Story is in a similar boat to the Touhou Project, but doesn't have the sheer lasting power and cultural impact that Touhou does (Then again, when you can claim to be the only known indie to have gone full-on Multimedia, and have a dedicated convention, that's kind of a high bar to reach), and Gunvolt doesn't really have the legacy that Touhou and Cave Story do, despite being somewhat of a hit.

...Of course, this all hinges on the fact that we get an Indie rep as a fighter to begin with, but given Nintendo's recent acknowledgement of Indies, I'd say there's a good chance that, if not in the Fighters Pass, we'll get at least one as a full-blown fighter.

This is also on top of the surge in popularity that Reimu is experiencing right now.

Also, I don't see the lack of Nintendo releases as a problem. If we consider Joker's development schedule, it was stated that Joker was being worked on even before the announcement, but they didn't have enough to warrant a full trailer. Given that Persona Q2 (Joker's first appearance on a Nintendo Console) was released literally right before the announcement of Joker in Smash (Specifically, 9 days before: Persona Q2 released in Japan on November 29th, and the 2018 Game Awards were on December 7th.), this can be inferred that, around the time Joker was chosen, he had no Nintendo presence, and yet he was chosen over Minato and Yu, who did. In fact, the only Persona game to ever appear on a Nintendo Console prior to Joker being chosen was Persona Q: Shadows of the Labyrinth for the 3DS, which was released before Joker's debut in Persona 5.

 

[Plank08]

]I'll admit, a lot of my reasons for placing Reimu at 100% hinge quite heavily on a few uncertain factors, but I'm firmly of this belief.

...Well, I say that, but it's ONE factor in particular.

I don't see Spirits or Assist Trophies getting promoted. That means no Shadow (sadly), no Isaac, no Waluigi, no Rayman, and most notably, no Shovel Knight and no Shantae. Mii Costumes are a bit trickier, but I've believed that Sans never really had a chance anyway.

With Shovel Knight and Shantae out of the way, that leaves me with three indies I think could feasibly take the spot.

Those being Gunvolt (from Azure Striker Gunvolt), Quote (from Cave Story) and of course, Reimu (from Touhou Project).

Of those, I think Reimu is far and away the best choice. Cave Story is in a similar boat to the Touhou Project, but doesn't have the sheer lasting power and cultural impact that Touhou does (Then again, when you can claim to be the only known indie to have gone full-on Multimedia, and have a dedicated convention, that's kind of a high bar to reach), and Gunvolt doesn't really have the legacy that Touhou and Cave Story do, despite being somewhat of a hit.

...Of course, this all hinges on the fact that we get an Indie rep as a fighter to begin with, but given Nintendo's recent acknowledgement of Indies, I'd say there's a good chance that, if not in the Fighters Pass, we'll get at least one as a full-blown fighter.

This is also on top of the surge in popularity that Reimu is experiencing right now.

Also, I don't see the lack of Nintendo releases as a problem. If we consider Joker's development schedule, it was stated that Joker was being worked on even before the announcement, but they didn't have enough to warrant a full trailer. Given that Persona Q2 (Joker's first appearance on a Nintendo Console) was released literally right before the announcement of Joker in Smash (Specifically, 9 days before: Persona Q2 released in Japan on November 29th, and the 2018 Game Awards were on December 7th.), this can be inferred that, around the time Joker was chosen, he had no Nintendo presence, and yet he was chosen over Minato and Yu, who did. In fact, the only Persona game to ever appear on a Nintendo Console prior to Joker being chosen was Persona Q: Shadows of the Labyrinth for the 3DS, which was released before Joker's debut in Persona 5.[/QUOTE]
I get what your saying.. but it just doesn’t seem like they would choose in indie that’s not Shovel Knight or Shantae( I feel Shantae is completely possible) so if they can’t get in, who will? And I feel quote is more popular worldwide so he would get in.
Edit: Sorry Grumbo that was an accident

 

[TheCJBrine]

(Then again, when you can claim to be the only known indie to have gone full-on Multimedia, and have a dedicated convention, that's kind of a high bar to reach)

Sounds like a certain sandbox.

 

[TheTuninator]

Wow. This has to be the longest debate I have ever seen in this thread. Even the debates on Saber during her day wasn't this long.

I guess it shows that many people are supportive for Reimu.

There's a lot of us Touhou fans crawling out of the woodwork after that Sans reveal.

 

[Neosonic97]

Sounds like a certain sandbox.

I don't recall Mr. Totally Inferior to the Terrarian ever going Multimedia. Minecraft has yet to spawn any kind of spin-off that's NOT a game.

Like... if I were to get a character from a construction-centred game like that, I'd much rather have it be The Terrarian than Steve.

 

[Calamitas]

I don't recall Mr. Totally Inferior to the Terrarian ever going Multimedia. Minecraft has yet to spawn any kind of spin-off that's NOT a game.

Like... if I were to get a character from a construction-centred game like that, I'd much rather have it be The Terrarian than Steve.

Minecraft has books written about it. And I don't mean any kind of books written about the game, but stories set in the world and everything.

 

[Neosonic97]

Minecraft has books written about it. And I don't mean any kind of books written about the game, but stories set in the world and everything.

Did Notch (or somebody at Microsoft, given how they own Minecraft) have any input on them? Or was it just fan-made books? Because otherwise it loses out to Touhou's official manga spinoffs, with ZUN doing at least some of the writing for them.

 

[Calamitas]

Did Notch (or somebody at Microsoft, given how they own Minecraft) have any input on them? Or was it just fan-made books? Because otherwise it loses out to Touhou's official manga spinoffs, with ZUN doing at least some of the writing for them.

Who's this "Notch"? Minecraft was created by Hatsune Miku.





. . .Nah, but seriously, I don't know that much about it. I suppose someone who actually supports Steve would know.

 

[TheTuninator]

Minecraft has a ton of print works & such; if you walk into a bookstore you're bound to see at least a few. I don't consider it truly an "indie" game anymore, but it's still the absolute reigning heavyweight champion of anything video gaming. There's nothing bigger than Minecraft, and that means a Minecraft rep should always be a strong (and deserved) contender.

 

[TheCJBrine]

I don't recall Mr. Totally Inferior to the Terrarian ever going Multimedia. Minecraft has yet to spawn any kind of spin-off that's NOT a game.

Like... if I were to get a character from a construction-centred game like that, I'd much rather have it be The Terrarian than Steve.

I respect your opinion.

Didn’t have to be rude about it. I like both games and I don’t see any comparison to be made from them aside from construction. They’re very different from each other, and take the sandbox genre in different ways. We could get both characters and they’d still have their own unique styles and moves. Steve is just my personal preference.

Anyway, even before Microsoft bought Mojang and the franchise, it had a big convention, books, and even crossovers with other games. It also had official merchandise including clothing and toys. Nowadays, it has Story Mode, the upcoming Dungeons game, and even a boardgame, alongside even more books and merch. It’s also very popular worldwide and is on every system. I wasn’t trying to be rude if that’s why you reacted that way, I was just pointing out Minecraft sounding like that in a silly manner.

 

[Nquoid]

It's actually pretty crazy how similar the Minecraft and Touhou stories are. Both games are made by singular people that inspire a lot of creativity in people. But Minecraft inspired people to funnel that back into the game, whilst Touhou inspired people to make other games, remixes etc.

But then one is still controlled by that single person and the other belongs to one of the biggest corporations on the planet.

I think I asked this before, is Zun's only source of income Touhou?

 

[TheTuninator]

It's actually pretty crazy how similar the Minecraft and Touhou stories are. Both games are made by singular people that inspire a lot of creativity in people. But Minecraft inspired people to funnel that back into the game, whilst Touhou inspired people to make other games, remixes etc.

But then one is still controlled by that single person and the other belongs to one of the biggest corporations on the planet.

I think I asked this before, is Zun's only source of income Touhou?

I think so, yeah. He used to do it as a side project, but as far as I know it's his full-time job these days.

 

[TheCJBrine]

But Minecraft inspired people to funnel that back into the game, whilst Touhou inspired people to make other games, remixes etc.

Minecraft kinda did that, too; the Minecraft clones you’d hear about and even see on the XBox Live Arcade or whatever, remixes like the Sweden one by Caution&Crisis, fan videos/animations, parodies, etc.

edit: meh, ignore the Terraria thing, people claimed it used Minecraft textures for tools for a while but I never saw proof of this...

 

[Nquoid]

Minecraft kinda did that, too; the Minecraft clones you’d hear about and even see on the XBox Live Arcade or whatever, remixes like the Sweden one by Caution&Crisis, fan videos/animations, parodies, etc.

And going back to Terraria, it even used Minecraft’s tool textures for its tools for a while.

Oh sure, I didn't want to get too deep though, I remember all my early Minecraft exposure in 2010 being "HEY LOOK WHAT WE BUILT IN THIS GAME" as opposed to the literal empire of remixes, fan art and fan games that Touhou has built.

 

[Neosonic97]

Minecraft kinda did that, too; the Minecraft clones you’d hear about and even see on the XBox Live Arcade or whatever, remixes like the Sweden one by Caution&Crisis, fan videos/animations, parodies, etc.

I also... don't really count Minecraft as an Indie. Not since it got bought by Microsoft. That's why I say Reimu's the only Indie to do it (on top of being an Indie that's so-long running it's almost as old as Pokemon is). I repeat: I do not count Minecraft as an Indie.

The main reason I don't really see Steve as a viable pick is because of Minecraft's pretty minimalist combat methods. He has a sword and a bow, plus some TNT... and that's kinda it really. He doesn't really bring anything NEW to the table aside from a possible construction mechanic, which is why I'd much rather have the Terrarian instead- the Terrarian actually has a large and varied arsenal and can do the construction gimmick just as well. Even if we gave him access to creative mode-esque mob spawning, that'd just be copying Zelda's Phantom to an extent. And do I even need to say that the Sword and the Bow step on the toes of a certain green-clad hero... all three incarnations of him?

 

[Extremmefan]

I think so, yeah. He used to do it as a side project, but as far as I know it's his full-time job these days.

For the record, I heard otherwise: that he had a side job that pays him well enough and Touhou really is just his passion project. He even said he'd still do these games even if no one bought them anymore, which implies he COULD still do them even if they don't give him profit anymore (then again, do they even? It's probably the Steam releases and such go to just letting him publish/localize the next games or so. He could even be saving that money for other things).

 

[TheCJBrine]

Oh sure, I didn't want to get too deep though, I remember all my early Minecraft exposure in 2010 being "HEY LOOK WHAT WE BUILT IN THIS GAME" as opposed to the literal empire of remixes, fan art and fan games that Touhou has built.

That’s fair.

Over the years, Minecraft grew a similar empire, just not so much in the fan games department save for some flash games. I guess most people just like to make their games in the game itself...or, in some cases, other people’s games, like the entirety of Pokémon Red.

I also... don't really count Minecraft as an Indie. Not since it got bought by Microsoft. That's why I say Reimu's the only Indie to do it (on top of being an Indie that's so-long running it's almost as old as Pokemon is).

The main reason I don't really see Steve as a viable pick is because of Minecraft's pretty minimalist combat methods. He has a sword and a bow, plus some TNT... and that's kinda it really. He doesn't really bring anything NEW to the table aside from a possible construction mechanic, which is why I'd much rather have the Terrarian instead- the Terrarian actually has a large and varied arsenal and can do the construction gimmick just as well. Even if we gave him access to creative mode-esque mob spawning, that'd just be copying Zelda's Phantom to an extent. And do I even need to say that the Sword and the Bow step on the toes of a certain green-clad hero... all three incarnations of him?

I brought it up because it sounded like what you described even while it was still an indie.

Steve wouldn’t use the sword and the bow the same way as Link, or wouldn’t need to. The bow, for example, could be an F-Air or be a side-smash, shot distance depending on charge.

And there’s actually plenty of stuff he could use otherwise; there is an enormous amount of items and blocks he could use, for example:

-A trident
-A crossbow
-The TNT you mentioned (could be a down-air or something)
-An anvil (maybe the down-air instead)
-Pistons (could be some throws)
-A minecart
-Potions, splash potions, lingering potions
-A chest (maybe F-Tilt)
-Sand, gravel
-Ender pearls
-Elytra (the wings)
-An axe, a pickaxe, a hoe, and a shovel (I like the idea that the pickaxe could be his side-smash; he could swing it down and spike opponents off the ledge)
-Fireworks
-Nether Portal or the End portal
-etc.

He could even take out a mob spawner, even if I reserved the mob-summoning idea for my Creeper moveset. Wouldn’t be like Zelda’s Phantom Slash at all.

 

[TheTuninator]

For the record, I heard otherwise: that he had a side job that pays him well enough and Touhou really is just his passion project. He even said he'd still do these games even if no one bought them anymore, which implies he COULD still do them even if they don't give him profit anymore (then again, do they even? It's probably the Steam releases and such go to just letting him publish/localize the next games or so. He could even be saving that money for other things).

Nah, he quit his full-time job a while back.
https://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/ZUN