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Bandana Dee:
Chance: 40: I don't really see him getting in. Feel like he could be a strong DLC candidate though. Too much limited space for him to get in right now though. If I'm taking a stab at how many unique characters are left, I'd guess 4, with 2 more to be shown at the last 2 directs before launch, and I have Geno, Incineroar, Issac, Dixie and Skull Kid ahead of him off the top of my head, and that's assuming we don't get a surprise thrown in there instead, which I expect at least one unique fighter to be.
Want: 0: There's not much here telling me he'd be a good addition to smash. A spear user would be a different weapon at least, but I'm not sure what you could really do with that kind of moveset other than jabs and stabs. I also understand that he's a more unique Waddle Dee, but that point doesn't really do much for me. It being a specific version of a generic enemy doesn't do much for me, because then we can argue that something like Youngster Joey's Rattata or a Koopa in a sombrero could be worthy of spots too. I won't be mad if he gets in and I'd probably try to play him a bit like I will with all the newcomers no matter if I want them in or not, but I'd rather see the spot go to someone else.
Magolor
Chance: 0: Unless Magolor is randomly super popular outside of the hardcore smash community I don't see it happening. He's behind Bandana Dee for sure, and we're not getting multiple new Kirby reps in this game. With spots feeling so limited I don't see any series outside of Mario and maybe Pokemon having a shot a 2 unique newcomers.
Want: 0: I'm fine on Kirby reps personally. We have some good ones already. Besides that, I also had no idea who this was until I did a Google search, which tells you all you need to know about my investment in him.
Ok before I do my satisfaction rating. Let me first address the elephant in the room that I feel if I do not, will loom over this thread for a while.
The box theory is pretty wrong. I can say for certainty we are getting more than just one more echo and newcomer.
First of all, the amount of content revealed so far is telling that we are not done yet. Look at it like this. Why when showing off the newcomers, would you sink so much into an 8/8 smash direct, especially given that we have so much more we need to know in another smash direct? I can say for certainty that we willbe having at least one more smash direct. They still need to explain spirits. They still need to go in depth on online. Hell, even assuming we are just getting all star, break the targets, and multi man modes, I still feel that they could easily do two smash directs of around the same run time. That or one bigger one, but I feel spreading out the info would be a better marketing strategy. So with that in mind, do people really think they would end things off with one newcomer (most likely a pokemon) and one more echo? Honestly if you do think that, you need to be less pessimistic.
Second of all, the box is an obvious prototype. Trying to read into patterns is something the smash community is never going to do well with. While the pattern with the box is interesting, it has so much limited info. On one hand, it is an obvious prototype. It was clearly designed when all we knew was stuff from the 8/8 direct. So we are already assuming that it would be lining up to just be two more newcomers and one more echo. But here is the biggest problem with people's logic. Since it is a prototype, we still do not know what is on the other side. Who knows, maybe the original 8 that we start with are not on the box. Maybe it just shows off unlockables. We also have not seen the back of the box. So going off of one prototype, that clearly is outdated, that clearly is easy to change, by just seeing one side, and using that for all our info does not make sense.
To go back on reading into patterns, it never goes well for people. We never really find the method in the madness. Evidence is one thing, but patterns are much weaker. If I were to argue Isabelle was in since she is popular and her AT is missing, that is evidence. If I were to argue that we would get a pikmin newcomer or echo since we got pikmin music on the site, thats something else. Reading deep into a pattern that we still are not sure if it is the final copy or anything else is just... dumb.
Finally, this is going to possibly be huge egg on my face, but I feel it is wrong because I ave heared we are getting more than one echo and one newcomer left. Honestly I could say which characters I have heard (I only know of 3 for sure), but I will say I did not hear of Ken or which pokemon it is for sure. That is not saying they are not in. I honestly believe they will be in.
Here is what I have heard
-We are getting more than 103 stages
-Black Knight, Shadow, and Geno are playable for sure from what I have heard.
-Shantae is an assist trophy
Yeah not much. If I hear anything more, I will post it. But yeah. I am going to say that Box theory is not happening, I am very confident in that.
Now onto the meat of things.
Isabelle
60% Satisfaction
Honestly, I always passively supported Isabelle. I never was someone who was dogmatic (pun intended) about her. I saw she deserved her spot, and I thought she was super likely especially post E3. That being said, part of the reason I wanted her as an echo is because... I am not an Animal Crossing Fan. I have played GC and New Leaf, but I never got into the franchise. I know it is huge and popular, but I just never got into it. I honestly feel alongside Star Fox (Sin and Punishment was always a better rail shooter in all ways except being less charming and goofy) it is one of the more overrated Nintendo properties. So, Isabelle had an uphill battle for me to like her.
And I do like her. Well, I don't hate her. But I guess me seeing her as a shoo in dulled any hype I would have had for the character. In Smash 4, I had zero excitement for Palutena, and I feel most of my reasons parallel. The trailer was obvious who it was for, their moveset did not pop as much as I would like, and I saw them as a near lock so I was never hyped for them. Palutena over Isabelle since I enjoyed Uprising so much. But yeah, Isabelle looks... fine. Am I mad she is in? No. Am I excited? Kinda, I did like Villager in Smash 4. But compared to everything else we have seen so far, she is easily my least hyped character.
Also it does not help the earthquake made me anticipate something more. I dunno, I thought we would get someone destructive for them to delay it. But whatever, I ain't mad. Isabelle and new Animal Crossing were among the highlights of a weak direct.
EDIT: I am still not 100% certain on this stuff, but it is what I heard. If I am wrong, I will look like a total dingus but whatever.
Can you tell us a bit more about your source? How do you know they're not misleading you?
Anyways, since I'm here, I might as well play:
Bandana Dee:
Chance: 10%/Want: 35%
I was never really big on Bandana Dee, and as the speculation cycle has continued on I've only lost more interest. He is prominent in the Kirby series though, and there's a case that he's one of the few "Nintendo All-Star" characters left at this point. His spear and parasol could also make for an interesting moveset.
Magolor:
Chance: 1%/Want: 1%
I don't understand Magolor's popularity. Like, what was so good about him? I give him good chances as DLC though.
I don't care about the character himself, and I don't find his design very interesting. His inclusion could also lower the chances of the kind of spear user I want getting in.
Magolor want: 0% (10-10*)
His design is cool. His portal powers would be pretty interesting, too.
Nominations:
FE Spear User x5
* Indicates percentage penalty for potentially taking a slot from most wanted characters
Waddle Dee
Chance: 50% - I feel like a lot of people downplay his popularity because they see him as just a goomba with a hat, and the fact that he's a more recent contestant to Smash newcomer speculation. Like Isabelle, Waddle Dee is a character with increasing popularity and relevance, so I wouldn't be surprised to see him revealed in a Nintendo Direct. My doubts come from Sakurai bias, since although Waddle Dee was created by Sakurai, he didn't really gain the status of a major character until after Sakurai passed down the Kirby franchise down, but I say he still has a good shot since he has relevance, popularity, and uniqueness all on his side.
Want: 90% - He's been my number 2 most wanted for quite a while, but he has fallen because "irrelevant" additions to the roster has become a thing. Waddle Dee has had a trend of becoming more and more relevant, compared to characters like Geno and Isaac, so while I would love to see him, I understand that he has more chances in the future to get in, similar to Waluigi.
Magalor
Chance: 20% - He's popular in Japan, yes, but no matter where you go, he is in Waddle Dee's shadow. If the Kirby franchise gets another rep, it will be Waddle Dee, and Magolor has only appeared as a major character in one game, which was some time ago, so adding him would be kind of a WTF pick in my opinion.
Want: 0% - Looks too much like Meta Knight in my opinion, and even though I played the game and enjoyed it, to me he doesn't really seem to fit into Smash, since he's not exactly what you would call iconic. I'd be pretty frustrated if he got in before Waddle Dee.
Bandana Dee:
Chance: 65%
Bandana Dee has ascended from minor enemy to key ally status in Kirby games and has become very popular recently, especially in Japan.
Want: 85%
I'd have to say that Bandana Dee sits around 2nd or 3rd on my want list. Him bringing a spear into the fight would be interesting and hilarious given that there are no FE spear users in yet. I need this boy in my life.
Magalor:
Chance: 30%
I've heard that he is fairly popular in Japan and some could argue that since Dedede isn't that much of an antagonist in later games, he could be the Kirby villan. That said, he's only been in a couple games and is not that well known outside the Kirby fanbase.
Want: 10%
While I do think he could have a potentially interesting moveset, there are more popular characters in the franchise. Plus, I have to support the Bandana Boy first.
Bwd: 70. Personly i think he has a good chance. Japan has not really gotton a bone other then isabele i guess, but bwd is way more popular. He is number one on like every japanese poll and on the latest pool ive seen he ranked 4th in amarica. Want 100. I love the kirby franchise and he has always been one of my favorate charactors. If hes not in the base game he is dlc 100%.
Magalor 15. Magalor is extremely popular in japan, but only in japan. He ranks high there, but i dont think that will be emough for his inclusion. Want 50. Rtdl was my first kirby game and i loved him in the game.
Jin Kazama x390
Ninten x373
Terry Bogard x357
Reinhardt Gets a Trophy x325
Gardevoir x320
[Rerate] Phoenix Wright x305
Django (Boktai) x300
Over 200
Rowlet x275
Concept: Hanafuda Character x272
Nathan Drake x265
Concept: Disconfirmed Characters as DLC x246
Concept: Fire Emblem Spear User x232
Thwomp x226
Linkle x225
Ray (Custom Robo) x217
No More Stages x206
200 - 151
Amaterasu x196
Balloon Fighter x190
DeMille x188
Concept: More than five unique newcomers (excl. Ridley/Daisy/Inkling) x185
Papyrus x180
Rick/Coo/Kine x174
Louie x165
Concept: Metroidvania-like Adventure Mode x161
Tsubasa Oribe x160
Fjorm (Fire Emblem) x160
Concept: All-Star Versus x158
Snip & Clip (Snipperclips) x155
Fire Emblem Three Houses Protagonist x155
Concept: Ken Masters alt Costume for Ryu x96
Viewtiful Joe x95
Concept: Only 4-6 newcomers for base roster x90
Frank West x75
Veronica x73
Chorus Kids x72
Yu Narakumi x71
9-Volt x67
Silvally x66
Item: Breidablik x65
Black Knight as a boss character x65
Toon Zelda x64
Endou Mamoru x62
Concept: Historical Character x60
Slime x58
Concept: Shin Megami Tensei Character x56
Concept: Wars Characters x53
50 - 25
Takumi (Fire Emblem) x50
Rhythm Girl x50
[Rerate] Spyro x45
Hilda (The Legend of Zelda) x40
Concept: Unique newcomer with low support (less than 20 supporters on Smashboards) x40
Concept: Xenoblade newcomer x40
Earthworm Jim x39
Stage: Ultra Space x35
Assist Trophy: Chun-Li x35
Adeleine x34
Xurkitree (Pokémon) x30
Donbe and Hikari (Shin Onigashima) x29
Dixie Kong & Kiddy Kong x25
Blacephalon (Pokemon) x25
Sans as a boss character x25
Master Chief x25
Under 25
Concept: Break the Targets & Board the Platforms stage builder x20
[Rerate] Concept: Zelda newcomer x20
Leo (Fire Emblem) x20
Sub-Zero x17
Concept: Modern Kirby Stage (Post Kirby Air Ride) x15
Concept: Custom Moves return x15
Concept: Custom Alternate Colors x15
Alexandra Roivas x15
Kat & Ana x15
[Rerate] Cranky Kong x15
Concept: DLC character pass x15
Ryuhi (Flying Dragon) x10
Metal Sonic x10
Dr. Lobe (Big Brain Academy) x10
Cross (Xenoblade Chronicles X) x10
Break the Targets x10
Protector (Etrian Odyssey) x10
Concept: Dragon Quest content x10
Big Boss x10
Concept: Cross series Echoes x10
Kyo Kusanagi x10
Volleyball Girl (NES Volleyball) x8
Stage Builder x8
[Rerate] Excitebiker x6
Stage: Gyromite Stage x5
Nia (Hyrule Warriors) x5
Concept: Valve Newcomer x5
Concept: SR388 Stage x5
Concept: Playable Indie Character x5
Blaze the Cat x5
Alm x5
[Rerate] Octolings x5
[Rerate] Gengar x5
Yandere Chan (Yandere Simulator) x5
Concept: Team Rocket as a Pokémon Trainer Echo x5
Cooking Mama x5
Playable Master Hand x5
Joker (Persona) x5
Zeke (Xenoblade 2) x5
Pam (Stardew Valley) x5
Captain Syrup x5
Concept: Return of Palutena’s Guidance/Codec Calls x5
Concept: Free DLC characters x5
Jin (Xenoblade) x5
[Rerate] Shantae x5
Concept: Assist Trophy DLC x5
[Rerate] Black Shadow x5
Doshin the Giant x5
The Prince (Katamari) x5
King Hippo x4
[Rerate] Ayumi Tachibana x4
Concept: New Yoshi item x4
Black Mage x4
Concept: WarioWare newcomer x2
Concept: F-Zero newcomer x2
Diskun x1
Item: Wumpa Fruit x1
Birdo x1
Quote x1
Gooey crosses 100 noms. Our sole newcomer for the day is the Prince from Katamari, with 5 noms.
Might do ratings tomorrow if I find the time, but for now I find Bandanna Dee the second or third likeliest character, while Magolor will probably not make base. And 5 nominations to Phoenix Wright.
Finally, this is going to possibly be huge egg on my face, but I feel it is wrong because I ave heared we are getting more than one echo and one newcomer left. Honestly I could say which characters I have heard (I only know of 3 for sure), but I will say I did not hear of Ken or which pokemon it is for sure. That is not saying they are not in. I honestly believe they will be in.
Here is what I have heard
-We are getting more than 103 stages
-Black Knight, Shadow, and Geno are playable for sure from what I have heard.
-Shantae is an assist trophy
Yeah not much. If I hear anything more, I will post it. But yeah. I am going to say that Box theory is not happening, I am very confident in that.
Big if true, just hope you don't get pestered like Vergeben if you end up being right about any of this.
Also, apparently, Corocoro claims that there's actually 108 stages. Don't know if it's okay to post scans, or in this case, a link to a 4chan topic with a pic of it.
And now, to the ratings:
Bandana Dee:
Chance: 40%-He's popular enough now that he solidified his status as the "fourth" main character of the Kirby franchise, that's for sure. However, I hesitate the idea of Sakurai adding more Kirby characters when King Dedede got shafted twice from joining.
Want: 20%-Not really interested in him. Moveset seems kinda boring when I think of it.
Magolor:
Chance: 5%-He was popular in that Japanese poll that Source Gaming made in 2015, but that seems to be really about it.
Want: Abstain-Don't really know the character at all.
I'm not completely convinced, it feels odd the issue covering the Smash direct would have a different number and have that literally be the only difference.
Chance: 70%
A special version of a normal species. I've been going back and forth on this one. The biggest obstacle is if Sakurai sees him as an interesting fighter or if he thinks players will find him interesting. Because even with a spear and parasol, he might get passed up as the fourth Kirby fighter. Oddly, Kirby 64 probably helps Bandana Dee as that's when Dee became a prominent ally. Still, lots of fan support helps him. And I can't ignore his absence in the background of Masked Dedede Final Smash.
Want: 55%
Sometimes I see him and Kirby act nice and think, how nice. If I'm being honest, I'd prefer parasol as the main weapon, but whatever.
Magalor
Chance: 40%
He was popular around the time of Smash 4 and the Ballot, and a good amount of people in Japan still think he might get in, so he hasn't been forgotten. Perhaps he can offer some unique magical moveset that's appealing. He might get roped into that boss thing, though.
Chance: 55%
I like magic-based fighters. Maybe Magolor would be good?
Nominations:
Terry Bogard x 5 (I have other ideas, but... it can wait)
Egh, that's the ONLY detail they leaked and without even a ounce of something to show for it? I don't know about that. I'm not ruling it out for sure, but I think their slip up of # without having any details said about it as rather faulty. Five stages meaning 5 more newcomers also seems a bit hefty
The box theory is pretty wrong. I can say for certainty we are getting more than just one more echo and newcomer.
First of all, the amount of content revealed so far is telling that we are not done yet. Look at it like this. Why when showing off the newcomers, would you sink so much into an 8/8 smash direct, especially given that we have so much more we need to know in another smash direct? I can say for certainty that we willbe having at least one more smash direct. They still need to explain spirits. They still need to go in depth on online. Hell, even assuming we are just getting all star, break the targets, and multi man modes, I still feel that they could easily do two smash directs of around the same run time. That or one bigger one, but I feel spreading out the info would be a better marketing strategy. So with that in mind, do people really think they would end things off with one newcomer (most likely a pokemon) and one more echo? Honestly if you do think that, you need to be less pessimistic.
Finally, this is going to possibly be huge egg on my face, but I feel it is wrong because I ave heared we are getting more than one echo and one newcomer left. Honestly I could say which characters I have heard (I only know of 3 for sure), but I will say I did not hear of Ken or which pokemon it is for sure. That is not saying they are not in. I honestly believe they will be in.
Here is what I have heard
-We are getting more than 103 stages
-Black Knight, Shadow, and Geno are playable for sure from what I have heard.
-Shantae is an assist trophy
Yeah not much. If I hear anything more, I will post it. But yeah. I am going to say that Box theory is not happening, I am very confident in that.
.
Three of your most wanted were confirmed by some source as totally getting in around the time people start thinking we are at the end of the road for newcomers? I don't know... feels a bit convenient. Not sure I'd just trust that source of your's, don't get your hopes up.
Also wasn't the Brawl reveal trailer packed with newcomers and then we got the rest slowly bled out? We're basically going through a much faster tease to release and Sakurai may be banking the final direct to be more focused on the modes (like Spirit) instead of newcomers. He's probably wary of leaks and may want them out faster rather than not.
Bandana Dee:
Chance: 85%
Let’s not deny it. Bandana Dee is probably as big of a deal in Japan as Ridley was in the west. And remember that Little Mac, Ridley, and Dark Samus all got in due to western demand. So far, only Chrom got in due to Japanese demand. Sure, you could bring up Isabelle, but remember that New Leaf sold insanely well worldwide. Isabelle quickly became a fan favourite character, and from what I’ve been hearing, was especially popular with women and children. I believe that the high demand Japanese newcomer spot is still left open, in regards to that.
People tend to bring up Sakurai bias when it comes to Dee, but really? I don’t think it’s a problem. Dedede and Kirby both got Final Smashes from games Sakurai didn’t work on, and Meta Knight has a costume heavily resembling Galacta Knight, a post-Sakurai character. If that’s not enough, a stage based off epic yarn of all things was planned for 4 but was scrapped in favour of the upcoming Woolly world, and Dreamland GBA was originally going to be a Super Mario Land stage!
And remember, Bandana Dee has a TON of moveset potential thanks to being a special case of a mook species! He already got his spear, but also had had a unique parasol associated with him ever since Planet Robobot due to amiibos, and that game only came out half a year at most after the project plan’s completion. If Sakurai discussed Dee with HAL, he would have known about it. Not to mention he could take abilities liie Waddle Doo’s beam, transformations from Rainbow Curse, Items from Return to Dreamland and much more for his moveset. And moveset potential IS something Sakurai also factors in when deciding characters.
Speaking of Rainbow Curse, it came out at the perfect time. Only months before the ballot. And who’s playable? You guessed it, Bandana Dee. Not Dedede, not Meta Knight. Bandana Dee. HE got chosen over Kirby’s two main rivals/friends as a playable character. Starting with that game, he truly cemented himself as an important, recurring, main character.
Going into conspiracy theory here: We all know about Dedede’s Final Smash at this point. I usually wouldn’t put much stock in it, but when other Final Smashes like K. Rool’s have so much detail and faith put into it, I think the argument has some merit. You could bring up the lighting and that Dee would obviously be hard to see, but consider the following: It could’ve been lighted like that BECAUSE they knew that it was weird to add in an audience thanks to Dee’s playable status. I believe if would’ve had different lighting if Dee wasn’t playable.
Going into more... debatable conspiracy here: Recently, Kirby’s VA responded to a fan saying they’d like Bandana Dee in Ultimate with something among the lines of “we’ll see what happens” or something like that. Again, wouldn’t normally put much faith in it, but I’ve heard she tends to retweet tweets about upcoming nintendo directs if it has Kirby content in it. Never bothered to check for myself, but it could mean something.
Oh right. The woolly world amiibo thing. That’s bogus. Don’t believe it.
Point is: He’s popular. He’s relevant. He’s got moveset potential. Even around the time of the ballot he had cemented himself as Kirby’s best friend. People might bring up that he’s a “blue toad” as player slot filler but remember that you could also choose to play as a differently colored Kirby instead of Dedede/MetaKnight/BDee. And with his more prominent roles in recent years, I think it’s safe to say he’s being treated as something much, much more.
There’s one thing going against him; The box theory. But with Corocoro showing up, I feel like there’s a good chance there’s a ton of info we don’t know yet. It could go either way at this point.
Want: 100%
YOU BET YOUR ASS I WANT HIM IN. Spears alone are my favourite martial weapons and I love the Kirby series. And Waddle Dees are freaking cute and I’m all for cute. Parasol is also one of my favourite abilities in the Kirby games, so if he could get that it would only be better.
Also, I just don’t want Kirby to be left in the dust in terms of playable characters when every other major nintendo franchise (Mario, DK, Zelda, Metroid, Star Fox, Pokémon, Fire Emblem, Animal Crossing) got something. Whether it be returning characters, heavily tweaked characters, or newcomers. Kirby so far is the only one not to get something and with it being my favourite nintendo franchise, I want to see it getting some love.
Magolor:
Chance: 5%
Let’s be honest. If Kirby’s getting a non-echo newcomer, it’s going to be Bandana Dee. Magolor still has the biggest shot after him, though. As he was probably in the top 10 favourites in Japan around the time of the ballot.
Want: 90%
His boss fights were really fun, and I’d like to see mini-sized super abilities being used in his moveset. Also, this is just me, but he’s better than Marx in every single way. Except for the beach ball Marx got that going for him I suppose.
Chance: 50%
Part of me can't help but suspect that a Bandana Dee reveal this late in the game would cause a little more negative stir than Isabelle would. But he's shown up in a lot more Kirby games as a playable character since his debut, making him a little more like a Captain Toad with more credentials on his resume. Add a sizable popularity to that, and you have someone you think would have shown up almost as early as Inklings.
Want: 50%
It's hard to classify Bandana Dee as "exciting", to be honest, which also muddles up when the ideal time to have revealed him would be. While I have no problems putting him in now, I've never chosen him over another high-profile candidate given a limited roster space.
Magolor
Chance: 20%
Little has changed for Magolor. This late in the game, everything's so unlike Smash 4 that it's hard to see how he could get in. Recency and decent popularity help, but that's both something Bandana Dee has a lot more of.
Bandana Waddle Dee Chance 95%
Yep, it's that high. That's how confident I am in his inclusion. I legit think he's the likeliest First Party character at this point. To explain myself this post will consist of 3 parts.
1/3 What does Dee already have going for him
Let's recap...
-Uses a weapon not seen before on the roster
-Due to Smash's controlls being inspired by the Kirby series, could make his moveset easier to make
-Relevant to the Kirby franchise at this moment, has official merch and shows up in many official artworks, even has his own song. (would likely get in as DLC if he somehow isn't in the base game)
-Is the only one out of the main four to not yet be playable.
-During Smash 4 DLC was one of the most requested newcomers in Japan, according to PushDustIn. Since the ballot will likely have a big impact on who the newcomers for Smash Ultimate will be this is very important to Bandana Dee
''So what? He has many things going against him too.''
Well not really when you actually look into it.
2/3 Debunking the arguments
''He's a generic member of his species, you can compare him to a Goomba with a hat''
This is Bandana Dee's ''Too big.'' Difference is that this argument is putting words in Sakurai mouth. Try to find one instance where a character didn't make it because of this. Personally I really doubt he cares with us having Pokemon, and on the roster. Unlike Bandana Dee, those characters don't even differentiate themselves from all the other individuals in their species. Everything they do can also be done by all the others. The same can't be saide for Bandana. You don't see your everyday Waddle Dee having wicked spear moves and competing in Megaton Punch.
About the ''Hat Goomba'' thing. Bandana Dee is already an official character with a name, so that argument goes into the trash. You can't even really compare him to a official hat Goomba, Goombario. But the Dee is way out of his league considering Goombario is a one-off character from a spin-off series, with no relevance or unironic support. He also can't really do anything a regular Goomba wouldn't be able to. Most importantly is that Bandana Dee actually has arms.
''Kirby doesn't need a 4th rep''
These aren't the Brawl days anymore. The Kirby series has grown significantly to the point where a 4th character feels more than justified. BTW Fire Emblem didn't really ''need'' a 6th rep yet Sakurai put Corrin in anyway. And that franchise hasn't sold near the amount of games the Kirby series has sold. Regardless it doesn't matter since Sakurai doesn't really look at the roster in terms of reps anyway.
''He's not as important as Dedede and Meta Knight. He's just multiplayer filler''
I'd argue importance to the series isn't really a big factor for a inclusion. Geno is unimportant to the Mario series, yet Sakurai himself wants him. is pretty unimportant to the Zelda franchise. Neither are clones like and. I'd also argue when the roster for Smash 4 was decided wasn't all that important to the whole Mario franchise.
Also if Bandana Dee really was just multiplayer filler, then why do we see him consistantly show up in most Kirby games? Granted, the fact that the roster was decided at the time when Bandana Dee's importance was still busy growing is the reason I'm not giving him a 99.99% but I feel the ballot could make that inrelevant.
''He'd be boring. There are better choices for a 4th Kirby rep.''
Assumpsions. If you're talking about in terms of moveset then you aren't thinking creatively. I doubt Bandana Dee's moveset would consist 100% of generic spear attacks. Sakurai would probably put an unique spin on his spear. Like having it be mechanical like Dedede's hammer. One second it's an spear, the other it turns into a parasol or a beam staff. I think Bandana Dee's playstyle would rely on spacing using the tip of his spear to knock opponents back, like Marth but with more range. Or who knows, maybe Sakurai won't do all that. shows that newcomers for this game won't need some sort of gimick to get people excited. And while I won't argue for the ''better choices'' thing since that's subjective, I think it's been universally agreed that Dee would be the likeliest option for a Kirby newcomer.
''Sakurai bias''
Bandana Dee debuted in Kirby Super Star. Despite his role being pretty minor in that game, it still means he was created by Sakurai. And with Dedede now having a new Final Smash in the form of Masked Dedede could be a sign at Sakurai being more open towards modern Kirby content, Some people point at him not having a trophy in Smash 4 but that doesn't really matter that much. Diddy Kong didn't have a trophy in Melee, neither did characters like Rosalina or Duck Hunt have one in Brawl. The only way I can see bias mattering is if Sakurai doesn't like Bandana Dee being a master spear wielder. I doubt that since Sakurai made him debut in a contest about cracking the planet using just muscles.
Now here comes the part to why I'm so confident in Bandana Dee being playable.
3/3 Hints and signs
There are two main things that make me think he's basically confirmed. One from Smash Ultimate. The other from a recent Kirby game.
So far we haven't spotted Bandana Dee in any form in this game. Not even as an Assist Trophy, which detractors think is a good role for him to have. Now there will be over 50 Assists in the game and we have 20+ more to see, so Bandana Dee could still possibly be among them. However I think if he was one he would already be revealed as one. Characters like Waluigi and Bomberman, who during the ballot days were just as if not more popular than him were casually deconfimed as characters in favour of being Assist Trophies. Along with less popular characters like Knuckles, Lyn, Midna, Starfy, Takamaru and Sukapon. I think that if Bandana Dee's ballot popularity was noticed it would've been a smarter move to straight up show him as an Assist in the Direct rather than having the fans wait only to dissapoint them later. More importantly. He also isn't anywhere in Dedede's new Final Smash, which is weird since he was literally the only guy who showed up to watch the fight between Kirby and the masked king.
Considering Ness and Lucas's partners show up during their Final Smashes along with Fiora in Shulk's Final Smash, it would make sense for him to atleast have a cameo, right? (shoutouts to @HypraSeaPea on Twitter for bringing this up)
Finally I'll show the thing that made give him such a high score.
It's his description when playing as him in Star Allies and pausing the game.
Doesn't this seem suspicious? You cannot tell me with a straight face this isn't HAL basically hinting at him being playable. The words ''He's got stellar attendance in the Kirby series'' and ''he sets himself apart from carefree parasol holders'' basically seems like HAL subtly showing disagreement towards the ''unimportant'' and ''generic species'' arguments. Also the ''deserves a prize'' thing deserves a mention. Why so vague? What kind of ''prize'' are we talking about here. Some applejuice? A medal? Or perhaps something bigger? I imagine Star Allies was in pretty early development during December 2015 so by the time this description was written HAL likely knew about all the Kirby related content in Smash Ultimate. I could all see this being foreshadowing.
You can say I'm looking to deep into this, but did anyone here recall that easter egg in Bayonetta 2 on Switch?
This ultimately hinted at Rodin showing up in Smash Ultimate. Sure, as an Assist Trophy but he didn't really have near as many things going for him as Bandana Dee. I think this description holds ground.
So yeah... this is why I think Bandana Dee will be playable.
TLDR:
-Likely popular during the Ballot, which likely will play a big role in Smash Ultimate.
-Has the potential to be a unique character.
-Faces no major competition from his franchise
-Doesn't really have anything major going against him, with arguments detracting him being weak and don't carry much weight.
-Lack of any appearance in Smash Ultimate and description in Star Allies point at him being playable.
Nothing changes here. I'd knock off 5-10% percent if it wasn't for Chef Kawasaki being an Assist Trophy, making the potential of Dee being one a whole lot unlikelier. Also the box theory can suck it!
Magolor Chance: 10%
Very popular in Japan but Bandana Dee will undoubtedly take priority and I don't really see us getting two original Kirby newcomers
Want: 50%
Normally I'd give any Kirby newcomer competing with Bandana Dee a zero but I don't feel like he'd get in if Bandana Dee also doesn't so I wouldn't mind him. He's one of the most memorable Kirby villains and his playstyle with dark magic and portals would likely appeal to those Kirby fans who aren't too pleased with Bandana Dee.
Before I do my ratings for Bandana Dee and Magolor, I'm gonna be very blunt about an exploding topic in the Smash community.
THIS BOX THEORY IS A BIG FAT LOAD OF CRAP!!!
This theory being true is about as possible as Goku and Shrek making it in to Smash Bros. This box releases in early November. The game releases in early December. We still have a ton of time before the game releases, and only 2 more character slots (including echoes) makes zero sense. Also Isabelle was already just revealed, filling in one of those slots. The side of the box is also missing a ton of characters between each row. From now until December, we have time for at least 2-3 more Nintendo/Smash directs. Don't take this theory as gospel, because it's fake. I'm done ranting. MOVING ON!
BANDANA DEE
Chance: 95%
Want: 80%
He's pretty much a lock at this point. Bandana Dee has proven himself to be different from the rest of his kind. And he's our first spear wielder. He has the moveset, the bravery, the dignity, and he's one of Sakurai's own creations. He's been treating Bandana Dee as a player 4 to the Kirby series for a while now, so it makes a ton of sense to make it in. Also, he was requested quite a lot during the Smash Ballot.
There have also been hints in Kirby Star Allies about his potential inclusion in Smash.
"DEHHH HES A GOOMBA WITH A HAT!" That argument means nothing because of what I just said above.
He would be a cool inclusion to the base roster, and if not, there's always DLC.
MAGOLOR
Chance: 5%
Want: Abstain
This is gonna be a short one. Magolor gets beaten by Bandana Dee in every way possible. Also he's not very popular compared to him. He is a cool villain, but we already have 2 villains/anti heroes in Kirby already. Also I don't care about him much. Also Marx is more popular than Magolor and has a potential moveset thanks to Star Allies.
Nominations: Xurkitree x3
Box theory being fake x2
Bandana Dee, King K. Rool, Dixie Kong, Ashley, Isabelle, Inkling; these 6 characters were the characters I felt had the highest chance of all in getting into this latest Smash game. I never put any of them as 100%, even Inkling, as Sakurai can be incredibly unpredictable at times. I have never expected every single one of them to enter the roster, at least excluding DLC, but I have always expected some of them to be included. So far I've had three of these confirmed, one deconfirmed, and my expectations for the remaining two have barely diminished. I've decreased their likelihood of getting into the base roster by a mere 3-4%, and if either Bandana Dee or Dixie Kong get in; I'd be entirely unsurprised.
So why do I think Bandana Dee is so likely, even with fewer slots available (I'm of the mind-set of 3-4 more original newcomers... currently leaning more to the 3 at the moment though)? He's been pushed by HAL a lot lately as the 4th member of the main Kirby crew; having central roles in Kirby and the Rainbow Paintbrush and Kirby Battle Role, as well as smaller playable appearances in Kirby's Adventure Wii and Kirby Star Allies. He comes with a pretty much predesigned move-set thanks to how similar Kirby games are to Smash, and along with that Spear styled basis, can pull from plenty of other related techniques to vary it up (his parasol from Battle Royale and in turn the Parasol ability in the Kirby series, his Megaton Punch from Kirby's Fun Pak, his picking up ability from the Kirby 64 beta and in both Battle Royale and Kirby and the Rainbow Paintbrush, as well as potential elemental abilities to his spear if Kirby Star Allies is able to have an influence as late as it was). He is also very popular; particular with the Japanese demographic, both as the character of Bandana Dee himself as well as for being a waddle dee. He brings a unique weapon to smash and unique weapon potential; things that Sakurai does seem to like with his character inclusions since SSB4.
The only things I see standing in Bandana Dee's way is competition for other character inclusions in a smaller roster pool (which still offers him a chance as DLC) and the apparent Sakurai bias towards newer Kirby games... which is somewhat diminished when you consider how Bandana Dee was initially created back in Kirby's Fun Pak. Otherwise, his chances are huge and they've been getting even bigger with each passing Kirby game.
Want: 92%
You can probably see from my signature that Bandana Dee is my fourth most wanted character. It's rather funny that, given if I made the SSB roster from the ground-up, I probably wouldn't consider him (series would be capped to 4 reps at most, an honour only going to Mario and Pokémon); but we're going by Sakurai's roster here so my support for him is massive! I love the Kirby series and Bandana Dee has been such a charming addition and promotion of a character. From his cool Megaton Punch debut to his emotional role in Revenge of the King and to his many playable appearances since Kirby's Adventure Wii; I love this little fellow... even if I'm terrible at using the spear ability in the Kirby series.
Bandana Dee is adorable and with plenty of move-set potential, far more than simply bringing over his spear move-set 1-to-1 from the Kirby games as some suggest, although his spear usage as a unique weapon for SSB already allows him to stand apart. A short light weight fighter with the potential to carry and throw foes, megaton punches cracking the very ground (though I see this as more likely as a final smash), parasol for either drifting or protection for attacks from above, a projectile airial and running a in the form of his spear toss; there is so much fun and creativity to be had with his move-set from purely canonical sources. I'd love to see him in SSB and I'm sure he'd be a ton of fun to play as, so here's hoping to his inclusion.
Magalor (Kirby series) Chances: 53%
If Sakurai bias towards newer Kirby games is a genuine factor, then Magalor suffers from this. He is popular in Japan and has been used quite a bit in the Kirby series since his debut, albeit not in a playable role. Whilst he benefits from the popularity of the Kirby series and his boss final presenting potential for a move-set, he has stiff competition in the bracket of Kirby characters. Bandana Dee seems the more viable choice, and when you consider the possibility of Sakurai bias, not only does Bandana Dee have the leg-up but so does the recently returning Marx. Marx fills in all the criteria that Magalor does, bar representing newer Kirby entries, which that latter is possibly a detriment to Marx.
Still, I feel a new Kirby rep is likely, and there are factors that go well in his favour, so I wouldn't dismiss him outright.
Want: 51%
There are many Kirby reps I'd prefer over Magolor, be it Bandana Dee, Marx, Dark Matter, Adeline... but he does have many repeat appearances so I wouldn't mind his playable inclusion. Okay, I wouldn't mind his playable inclusion once Bandana Dee gets in; Bandana Dee first, then I'm cool with Magolor. He had a fun personality and could be fun to play as. He would also most definitely represent newer Kirby games, having had no small appearances in past games unlike Bandana Dee.
At this rate she'll be confirmed or deconfirmed before we get the chance to rate her chances... c'mon Yuri:
Nominations: x5 Fatal Frame Protagonist
Bandana Dee
Chance: 85%
I've said it many times but he has a lot going for him. He maybe disliked here in the West by many but let's not ignore Japan he has ranked very high in Japanese polls showing that he is wanted. Let's not forget all of the New Kirby content in this game even if it's very little at the moment. DeDeDe's Final smash came from KSSU and not to mention the minigame were Bandana Dee Started to become important. The whole generic enemy argument does not hold water what about Rob, Inkling, Yoshi, Pikachu etc? You can't undermine Bandana Dee saying the others are more important. That's just hypocritical.
Want:100%
Not going going to change my stance on him I grew up with the Kirby series.
Magolor
Chance:25%
He did appear in 3 games but is not as popular as bandana dee
Want: 10%
Not bandana dee but welcome addition anyway.
Here is what I have heard
-We are getting more than 103 stages
-Black Knight, Shadow, and Geno are playable for sure from what I have heard.
-Shantae is an assist trophy
I'm going to have to ask for context on this claim I've not seen your name before nor have I heard any of this information from any source yet.
Ahh, to stay relevant to thread:
BWD want: 35%, Spears are cool, but I'm not too much of a fan, certainly wouldn't mind him tho.
Chances: 50%, honestly, you never know with Sakurai, the hint of DDD's final smash might allude to an assist trophy, we won't know until there's an announcement.
Magolor want: 40%, I'd prefer Marx, but I really like the design. Still, I've only played one kirby game so I'mm not likely to play as any newcomer from the series.
Chances: 25%? Is his Japanese following enough? It's hard to really know.
Personally, I want Adeline because of Brawl in the Family... But that's a longshot and a half.
If your right about these deconfimations
man no Crash that sucks wasn't expecting him but there was always hope.
shantea was no suprise didn't even expect her as a trophy but I am glad she is not in.
Rex and Pyra no suprise but possible DLC
Rayman yeah brawhalla confimation seemed like deconfimation to me
BDee
chance
He still has a chance and is iconic in the Kirby series. What makes me worried is that its getting later into the reveals so that not only means less newcomers but that everyone is a big hurdle to go though. I think he is still in but not as certain as I was earlier this year
70%
want
100%
he is a nintendo charcter I am shocked still is not in he is the player 4 to the kirby series so I don't think its a matter of if its when.
Considering that SMRPG was one of Square's biggest successes in history (with SMRPG selling as massively as the huge Tomb Raider/Final Fantasy games), I feel the company would be fine with the idea of SMRPG being represented in Smash. The belief that Square Enix would strike against the idea of Geno being playable is a huge overstatement.
I just came here to say that your information about the super Mario rpg is totally wrong. I don't care anymore about which characters Sakurai puts in because he ruined the roster with smash 4 anyways.
Super mario rpg sold something about 2mio copies (i know vgchartz is not that trustworthy either, but it makes sense in that case) there is no concrete sales data besides the 1.47mio it sold in Japan. I live in Germany and I didn't play the game back then because it wasn't even released in Europe. There is no way the game sold more than 7mio copies and if you believe that you're very naive. The game came out in 1996, the year the n64 launched and games tend to sell less on a "dying" console. The only game that sold well enough at that time to get into the top 10 list of best selling games of the snes is DKC3 (And Dixie still isn't in Smash).
I don't care for geno, but I think he could have a good chance, wouldn't be surprised if he's the square character vergeben was talking about.
Just don't post wrong information here, if Geno gets in then just because Sakurai wanted him, not because of his alleged "popularity".
Bye
To be honest, I was going to At first. I have known this stuff since around mid August. The main reason I am coming forward now is because there is so much pessimism. If what I know gives people the slightest bit of hope, I’m happy. I’m willing to look like an idiot if I am wrong. If you want my faith in my source, 60%.
Chance- 75%: He's a big deal in America, and an even bigger deal in Japan. I feel like him and Ashley are kind of the "Japanese most wanted" like how in America we have Ridley. Sakurai will most likely put one of the two in because the game is made in Japan, and since Ashley's an assist, I think Bandana Dee has a really good chance. Kirby hasn't gotten a new rep since Brawl, and it seems the series who were skipped in Smash 4, like Metroid and DK, are finally getting new characters.
Want: 85%: He's probably my most wanted newcomer behind Dixie Kong, Captain Toad, and Banjo & Kazooie. He's on the same level for me as Isaac and Rayman as far as how much I want them in Smash. He has everything going for him: cool design, spear user (which isn't represented in Smash), Kirby character, and an extremely popular edition. Some people say he won't get in because this game is aiming towards "irrelevant characters" but to me that makes no sense. If a character is popular they have a chance of getting in, so to me, Ultimate may be Bandana Dee's time to shine.
Magolor
Chance: 10%: I really don't see this happening. I was gonna put him at 1% but he's extremely popular in Japan so I moved him up to 10. The problem is, he has to compete with Bandana Dee who's basically more qualified for Smash in every way. Bandana Dee is a recurring character compared to Magolor who only appeared once, Dee is more popular, offers more to the game, and is more recognizable.
Want: 15%: Something about his design doesn't scream Smash to me. Personally, I would rather see Marx or Daroach over him, as both of there designs fit well in Smash Bros.
Dee is in a position similar to Toad - a generic character made unique by the addition of an accessory, and despite appearing frequently as a sidekick in the main series games, has not even shown as anything noteworthy (not even an assist) in Smash.
We can speculate all we like about ballot results, but nobody knows the actual results, besides that ballot was easy enough to vote-by-bot so we don’t know how skewed it is. We all live in our forum threads so it sounds like there’s loads of support, but we don’t really know. Personally, I haven’t heard Dee banded about by anyone outside of these boards...granted I don’t look for material either.
As for “we need a spear user,” I don’t really think of him as a spearman simply because he holds a spear. If I wanted to see a spear fighting style, I’d look for someone from Zelda, now that Link got a bunch of spears as possibilities, or they likely have some in Fire Emblem. A puffball waving around a pointy stick that is as long as he is wide would not be able to do more than poke with it and also wouldn’t have extended range - kinda like how Meta Knight’s swordsmanship is not really at the level of the rest of the swordsmen in Smash. Honestly, I see Dee more as a pokey Meta Knight than anything else.
On his side, the Kirby series is getting a new game, and I’m sure the series as a whole is much more popular in Japan than in the west. But Sakurai did seriously cut down on Kirby content after people claimed Brawl favored the series too much (it wasn’t bad), and now the complaints about Sakurai favoring his own stuff skyrocketed for SSB4 (that was excessive). He may be hesitant to feed that debate more.
Personally, I don’t really see anything in Dee. While most people think we have enough sword fighters, I say bring on the sword fighters to balance out all of the small round puffball type characters with stubby arms and legs (not that that’s all bad, since I support Squirtle and he fits that description too). I’ve never been that into the Kirby series, so there’s not much about him that says ‘unique’ to me.
I’m not going to riot if he gets in, and I’ll be happy for his supporters since they’ve been around a while, I just think there are some more deserving characters who are more important to their respective series and whose series deserve more representation.
Mag, i feel would have a lot of the same topics going for him, but add to that the fact that I feel people would riot at a Kirby newcomer not named Dee. This is the difference between Kirby and a series like Zelda - Kirby's got a clear front runner, but there is support for other characters as well. Zelda has no clear front runner (at least not before loz18 got everyone behind Skull Kid, but maybe a bit too late)
I'll give scores of Chance: 20%, Want: 10%.
Oh, and I'm on team doubt in re the box theory. The 'nine-then-switch pattern is bizarre, but there are a lot of other leaps of faith it's asking as well.
This final roster is great. Everyone gets their own main? K. Rool? Ridley? Squirtle? Yeah, nothing wrong here.
But this box theory is something that comes up every game, and has always ended up being wrong. Remember last round? Here's the website pics... View attachment 164409
"Okay, so there are 9 characters a page! So on the last page... View attachment 164410
8 slots after Bayo?!?!?!
That means there are 8 characters left to reveal!!!!!. Get hype guys, maybe K.Rool still has a chance for Smash 4!!!!!"
Sakurai has never let the final number get out before the game through official channels. And if he had (which let's face it, people would do this exact analysis), that render would be removed from the internet so fast because its existence is a spoiler.
And don't forget this...
Notice how back-loaded reveals are. Why did we get an August Smash direct with 5 characters? If this is it, we should have gotten Simon and Richter with maybe Chrom in August, so that KKR and DS could be saved for September, then Belle for October, and finally the last two for November. Instead, we got everyone at once?
I will admit, 9 characters then swap per side is a bizarre choice and the fact that they followed the pattern throughout is questionable. But nothing else about it matches with what we've seen of Smash before. If it's final, that's fine. I'm not sitting here crying in denial that my (unlikely in the first place) favorites aren't in. But the theory does ask me to accept a lot of marketing decisions that haven't been made before...
I also don't like the box theory for the same reason I don't like credible leakers - speculation dies. Now, we can say "Oh, I'd like character X in the game because of reasons XYZ," and instead of getting a critical response that analyzes our reasoning, we get "lol, no room on the box. But don't hate Incineroar for getting in!" How do you respond to an argument getting shot down like that? We may as well not even have speculation at that point.
I'll be giving both a 0% chance score. I'm on Team VergeBox so I think Ken and Incineroar are all that's left. Maybe for DLC though.
Want:
Dee - 10%
Mainly for my brother. For me, there are other Kirby characters I'd want more, and even then I'm not itching for a Kirby newcomer in general.
Magolor - 70%
Magolor, alongside Adeleine, are the two Kirby newcomers that would excite me. Return to Dream Land was my first and only Kirby game, and Magolor was neat.
To be honest, I was going to At first. I have known this stuff since around mid August. The main reason I am coming forward now is because there is so much pessimism. If what I know gives people the slightest bit of hope, I’m happy. I’m willing to look like an idiot if I am wrong. If you want my faith in my source, 60%.
Chance: 30% I don't think Kirby will get a newcomer, but Dee makes the most sense by far to put in. He's basically Kirby's player 4 character, and he rounds out the current roster of Kirby characters that way. The only doubts I have are if Kirby will get a newcomer at all. Want: 70% I think he's a cool character, and I think he would be fun to play. I haven't played a Kirby game in years, and even then I didn't play this character, but from what I've heard from his supporters I think he would fit in well. He's a good pick in my eyes.
Magolor
Chance: 0% He's a one-off villain who wasn't even that memorable. I don't see why Sakurai would put him in over all the other classics and fan favorites. Want: 0% Again, he's a one-off villain who wasn't even that memorable. I don't want him over all the other characters who deserve a spot on the roster.
Bandanna Dee
Chance-0%
I don't see it happening. Sorry. We're strapped for slots at this point in time, and it'll likely go to Incineroar, Geno, Isaac, or Banjo at this point. Maybe next time.
Want-0%
Never been a big Kirby guy and Bandanna Dee really doesn't appeal to me. I'm sure there's more to him than a goomba with a hat, but that's honestly all I see.
Magalor
Chance-0%
If Dee ain't gettin' in, Magalor sure as hell ain't.
I'll be giving both a 0% chance score. I'm on Team VergeBox so I think Ken and Incineroar are all that's left. Maybe for DLC though.
Want:
Dee - 10%
Mainly for my brother. For me, there are other Kirby characters I'd want more, and even then I'm not itching for a Kirby newcomer in general.
Magolor - 70%
Magolor, alongside Adeleine, are the two Kirby newcomers that would excite me. Return to Dream Land was my first and only Kirby game, and Magolor was neat.
Arent people saying the box is just a mock up and easily can change?
And shulk and olimar are mich bigger ends then ken and inceniroar. Stop taking what he says as gospel and except more can be hidden what he doesnt know. He didnt know about richter chrome or dark samus
Arent people saying the box is just a mock up and easily can change?
And shulk and olimar are mich bigger ends then ken and inceniroar. Stop taking what he says as gospel and except more can be hidden what he doesnt know. He didnt know about richter chrome or dark samus
He did not say he was exclusively pulling from the ballot, however. And even if Incineroar is newer, he runs laps around someone like Shulk, who came from an incredibly niche then-one-game late-Wii JRPG franchise that almost didn't come out in the west. Pokémon, meanwhile, is the largest multimedia franchise on earth.
and 
