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Rate Their Chances - Smash Ultimate Edition! Day 672: Five Most Likely First and Third Parties for Smash 6, and Final Goodbyes

Ze Diglett

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URGH. GENO. URGH. OKAY. Prepare yourselves (:ultike:) for a long *** rant. This ain't gonna be pretty and probably the most volatile rant I've ever done on a character. Try not to get upset. I'll spoiler it in case you want to avoid.

****. Geno. Genuinely **** this little insignificant puppet.

Okay, let's dial it back, that's clearly a very strong way to feel about any character so I'll try and breakdown why Geno irritates me so as a Smash character suggestion.

I have no doubt Geno is popular for legit reasons(to an extent), but so is Medli from the Legend of Zelda Wind Waker yet no one is vying for her despite her ability to offer unique gameplay and fulfill a fan favourite niche. Vivian is an incredibly popular Paper Mario partner, yet there's absolutely no outcry for him/her.
My favourite Pokemon is Alakazam, a Pokemon who is actually pretty damn popular amongst the Pokemon fanbase and yet I see absolutely no support for Alakazam and nor will I ever support him for Smash. I barely ever see any support for Gengar who is even more popular than my spoon bending psychic fave.

Why is that?

Because overall they're not important to their franchises.
Yes, SMRPG has it's fans, but Geno is so ridiculously low on the scale of signifance to the Mario universe it's frankly insulting to entertain the idea of him getting in before the far more important Toad/Captain Toad(and if you're going to argue Geno is more important to the Mario series than Toad you're ****ing delusional pal), the superior RPG series of Paper Mario, or even a character who makes frequent appearences in spinoffs like Waluigi.

So what sets Geno apart from say Goombella, Vivian or even fellow SMRPG partner Mallow in terms of Smash support?

Sakurai mentioning he liked him.

That's it.
That's all it took to take Geno from a literal "who?" on the level of Goombella to suddenly being seen as the next viable Mario related candidate after WARIO in Brawl. Notice Mallow, a character with an actual character arc in SMRPG with genuine development gets precisely zero backing. Because he wasn't mentioned.

So what has said Sakurai said he likes about Geno in particular? His arm has a gun and he thinks that'd be fun for Smash.

Well...we've got that already with far more popular and iconic characters with actual significance in their series; :ultsamus::ultmegaman: and even :ultmiifighters::4miigun: kind of renders that entire character archetype moot.

Geno meanwhile has not once been brought back into a Mario game outside a single cameo in Superstar saga(which at the time, NGL I was excited by) which was removed in the remake of said game. We have Pom Pom playable in Super Mario Party, and literally no one cares about her, yet Geno, an apparently popular character constantly gets overlooked and removed.

We could have had him in the Mario Sports Mix, which let's be real would have been PERFECT as it was made with a collaboration of Square and Nintendo. We even got Square characters! Oh man, to see Geno and Mallow slamming hoops next to the main Mario cast would have been incredible...but wait! We didn't get that. We got five Final Fantasy characters and a Dragon Quest character. That's six possible slots Square could have used for Geno and yet not a single SMRPG character was probably even discussed.

Square don't care about Geno. And Nintendo don't either. Sakurai is the only person who seems to, and he's the Geno's fans lifeline to maybe somehow getting Geno to reappear in a future Mario title.
I can understand their frustration, but given that absolutely perfect game to include both Geno and Mallow and it didn't happen, why should Geno be chosen to represent Mario in Smash over literally any other Mario character who's done something in the past twenty years?
Captain Toad? Has his own game, it sold well, Toads are the literal face of the Mushroom Kingdom and yet no playable Toads.
Paper Mario? RPG character who has had several super successful games over the past decade and is chock filled with unique gameplay and creativity.
Waluigi? Certainly has a fanbase, and is at least THE Mario Sports spinoff character at this point.

His Mii outfit was great. Hell I was excited by him being a Mii outfit for Gunner. But that's all he should be until the fans convince Nintendo to buy his rights and put him in some actual Mario titles again, even if it's spinoff sports games or cameos in more RPGs(rather than removing him) before I can see Geno as anything but a slap in the face to fans of Toad, fans of Paper Mario and fans of Waluigi(of which he does have some, I refuse to believe Waluigi's entire fanbase is based off of memes).

Want: 0% but I'd be in negative numbers if possible.
As a fan of Captain Toad, Waluigi and Paper Mario I think this is the one inclusion that would genuinely **** me off enough to not buy the game if he's chosen over all of them.
Especially at this stage. If he made more appearances in the future in spinoffs, the RPGs or the main Mario series games I'd be signifcantly less disgusted by the idea of his inclusion but as it is, he's nothing more than an overblown meme from a game which is honestly overrated. Better Mario RPGs have come since, better RPGs existed before, and considerably better third party and Mario series character options are available.

Chance: 50%
That said, irritatingly, I can see Sakurai saying **** it and adding who he wants if this is truly his last Smash game regardless of whether or not they're the Mario series equivalent of adding in Ricky the Kangaroo for a Zelda rep over Impa, Tingle, Midna, Ganon etc.
Ummm... holy ****.
I'm not gonna tell you you're wrong for not wanting Geno in the game, but when you start seeing a character's hypothetical addition as an insult and reason to boycott a product, that's when I think you need to step back and reevaluate your perspective on this whole speculation business. There are lots of characters I don't like, or even hate the idea of ever being in Smash (coincidentally, Captain Toad and Waluigi are among them, and not just for being in direct competition with my boy), but you don't have me out here vowing to not buy this amazing game if any of them get in.
 

Honest Slug

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Ugh... SO MUCH LOWBALLING. It makes a man sad, seeing his favorite character's chances underrated so much by the haters...
This thread also almost uninomusly rated Ridley and Snake's chances in the 5-10% range. Don't get your hopes down.

Man the salt towards Geno is pretty real, what did we do to you guys lmao.

Also anyone who rates Geno at 0% chance is not thinking objectively at all. Sure he's not shoe-in at all but thinking he has NO chance at making it in clearly shows bias. Most of the people voting him at 0% chance also have him at 0% want... some food for thought.
 
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Souldin

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So I don't want to detract from the topic too much, though this is related to the ratings I've seen from today, but I do have question for the general people rating today.

Now focusing away from Geno and talking about Dillon (whom I see quite a few have even skipped trying to rate his chances), I've seen that generally, Dillon has been getting fairly low Chance ratings. This surprises me, as whilst I suppose I am a little biased towards one of my top 5 most wanted newcomers, I honestly see Dillon as one of the most likely newcomers... representing a Nintendo series without a playable rep so far. With Splatoon now represented with the Inklings, and with Dillon's consistent presence on the 3ds, move-set possibilities, representing a theme (western) and genre (tower defence) unrepresented in smash, and more; I do find Dillon's Rolling Western as the next most likely Nintendo series to gain representation.

So my question for anyone who happens to read this, what Nintendo series do you thing is the most likely to get a playable rep at this point? I certainly don't believe that Splatoon will be the only additional Nintendo series to gain playable representation, though that is always an option for an answer if you truly believe that.
 
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Honest Slug

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So I don't want to detract from the topic too much, though this is related to the ratings I've seen from today, but I do have question for the general people rating today.

Now focusing away from Geno and talking about Dillon (whom I see quite a few have even skipped trying to rate his chances), I've seen that generally, Dillon has been getting fairly low Chance ratings. This surprises me, as whilst I suppose I am a little biased towards one of my top 5 most wanted newcomers, I honestly see Dillon as one of the most likely newcomers... representing a Nintendo series without a playable rep so far. With Splatoon now represented with the Inklings, and with Dillon's consistent presence on the 3ds, move-set possibilities, representing a theme (western) and genre (tower defence) unrepresented in smash, and more; I do find Dillon's Rolling Western as the next most likely Nintendo series to gain representation.

So my question for anyone who happens to read this, what Nintendo series do you thing is the most likely to get a playable rep at this point? I certainly don't believe that Splatoon will be the only additional Nintendo series to gain playable representation, though that is always an option for an answer if you truly believe that.
Splatoon sold nearly 5 million copies on a measly 13 million install base, Splatoon was a massive hit. Dillon's games barely made much of a splash on a much bigger install base. I don't really think he's comparable to the Inklings.

If another series is getting in I have a good feeling it's Rhythm Heaven.
 

Cosmic77

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Sometimes people forget that this is all just a game. Anyone can show their love/distain for Geno and give the most ridiculously unrealistic chance scores if they want to. Doesn't really matter at the end of the day.
 

Ze Diglett

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So my question for anyone who happens to read this, what Nintendo series do you thing is the most likely to get a playable rep at this point? I certainly don't believe that Splatoon will be the only additional Nintendo series to gain playable representation, though that is always an option for an answer if you truly believe that.
Rhythm Heaven, I think is likely, considering it was planned to get a playable rep in Smash 4, whoever that was originally supposed to be. Beyond that and Splatoon, though, I doubt we'll see any more first-party series get a character for the first time, at least not until DLC starts up, at which point the ARMS content will inevitably come flooding in.
 

Organization XIII

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So I don't want to detract from the topic too much, though this is related to the ratings I've seen from today, but I do have question for the general people rating today.

Now focusing away from Geno and talking about Dillon (whom I see quite a few have even skipped trying to rate his chances), I've seen that generally, Dillon has been getting fairly low Chance ratings. This surprises me, as whilst I suppose I am a little biased towards one of my top 5 most wanted newcomers, I honestly see Dillon as one of the most likely newcomers... representing a Nintendo series without a playable rep so far. With Splatoon now represented with the Inklings, and with Dillon's consistent presence on the 3ds, move-set possibilities, representing a theme (western) and genre (tower defence) unrepresented in smash, and more; I do find Dillon's Rolling Western as the next most likely Nintendo series to gain representation.

So my question for anyone who happens to read this, what Nintendo series do you thing is the most likely to get a playable rep at this point? I certainly don't believe that Splatoon will be the only additional Nintendo series to gain playable representation, though that is always an option for an answer if you truly believe that.
Golden Sun is the next new series getting a character in Smash. As for Dillon basically, I do believe he would have a great shot if this Smash was selecting characters in a similar manner as the last game since he usually checks the common criteria we use but with a greater emphasis on popularity and Dillon still being relatively minor, I don't think he'll make it. I'd love to be wrong about him though.
 

Pokechu

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So they don't count just because... they're special. Alrighty then.
The difference is that Geno wouldn't introduce a new universe into Smash (Ice Climbers, Pit, and all the other retros) or reflect on Nintendo's history (G&W, Duck Hunt, R.O.B.)

Geno would just be there.

And even without his irrelevance, he still has competition within his series.
what are Pit,
i dont know, you got me.
Little Mac,
not that irrelevant, he had a 2009 wii game
Mega Man, Pac-Man,
incredibly historic and iconic third parties. ESPECIALLY pac-man.
Captain Falcon, either of the Earthbound boys,
relevant when the roster was made. SSB64 released in 1999. Falcon had games in 1990, 1996, 1997, and 1998. Earthbound was in 1994. I'm a bit rusty on what happened w/ Lucas but I think he was added during development (and replaced Ness) because Mother 3 was still on track for an NA release, but then Ness was added back when Sakurai found out Mother 3 wasn't getting released outside of Japan. I might be wrong on that but regardless Mother 3 released in 2006, just two years before Brawl.
had his own movie, unique, incredibly popular and relevant when the roster was decided
most of the Gen 1 reps other than Pikachu,
incredibly iconic and popular? more known than geno? some of the most known characters in history?
squirtle/ivysaur/charizard - first starters of Pokemon
Mewtwo - main legendary of Pokemon
Jigglypuff - incredibly popular at the time of SSB64, relevant in the anime

also technically they're all still relevant because they're all still in the Pokemon games/some are in Pokken
Zelda's alter-ego in the critically acclaimed Ocarina of Time, who gave Zelda's moveset a unique twist as she could transform during battle
Dr. Mario,
literally mario lol and an easy clone (geno couldn't be a clone... unless it was of mii gunner???)
Star Fox as a franchise,
relevant at the time of their respective games. Star Fox released in 1993 and its second game was in 1997. SSB64 was in 1999. Falco was a clone and Melee released just two years later in 2001.
most of the Fire Emblem cast at this point,
marth - mascot
roy - clone
ike - newest lord at the time of brawl
robin/lucina - faces of the very successful FE: Awakening, very popular and both are in Warriors
corrin - face of the newest FE game, most unique swordsman moveset in the roster, in Warriors
or Wii Fit Trainer still doing here?
the wii console was a HUGE success and wii fit sold like 20 million. yeah we're past the wii now but imo she's like a retro/historical rep but for the wii.

Even if you look strictly at when they were added, most of these characters shouldn't have been added in the first place if relevancy is truly a requisite for admission.
Relevancy is not the end-all-be-all we think it is, folks. I suggest we all get that idea out of our heads.
IDK... from the looks of it when these characters were added most of them were relevant.

so how'll geno get in?
 

Icedragonadam

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Geno

Chance: 5%
Want: 10%

I don't see it happening. A translator at Square Enix who other people vouched for basically disconfirmed the Imgur leak by saying that certain characters aren't in. Which is widely accepted as Geno & Sora. Besides I'm one of the few that preferred Mallow over him.

Dillon

Chance: 15%
Want: 80%

He was on my prediction list before E3 but now he's probably going to be an Assist Trophy again. Spots are tight and it's clear the the newcomer theme is fanservice/Ballot/ With the only non ballot newcomer I'm seeing is a Retro.

Nominate

Concept: More Than 5 Unique Newcomers x5
 
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VexTheHex

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OH MY LORD :ultike:, today is explosive.

Dillon
Chance - 30%
This game seems more about fan service than promoting new series and the future, so Dillon does take a hit. However, his AT is missing and he could represent the 3DS better than Qbby... but Qbby does have that lackluster design that G&W and ROB share. So maybe the box with eyes is more likely than the western armadillo cowboy. But truth be told, I could see Dillon sparking some move set ideas from Sakurai and getting the upgrade.
Want - 75%
I have never played his game, but I do like the idea of a cowboy armadillo. I just think visually, he'd be a awesome addition to the roster. He's kind of got a cute but badass design pulled off well.

Geno
Chance - 35%
This puppet boy got a huge boost in chance from the game not only being all about the fan service, but it appears :ultcloud: showcased that his company is still in play. And let's not forget, most were expecting Cloud to be exiting. So this changes things. His biggest issue is being a one off character from a old game, but Sakurai felt there was enough pull for him to get a Mii costume. I'm thinking Geno has a shot to show up.
Want - 65%
I never really understood or followed the Geno hype. I felt he was a dead character that really needed left alone. But, now that there is solid reason to believe the puppet can get his foot in the door... why not? If Ridley can get his goofy self into the game as a shrunken little abomination that looks kind of like Bayonetta, than some old school puppet can as well! I think with there being indication of fan pleasing, maybe it'd be cool for the Geno fanboys/girls to get their dream boy? I don't know, I guess I'm feeling a bit cheery atm and feel like being nice to a character others have supported against all odds for quite some time.

He's potentially more realistic than Isaac or Lip. Sorry... not sorry.

Nominations - 10x Monster Hunter
 
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YoshiandToad

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Ummm... holy ****.
I'm not gonna tell you you're wrong for not wanting Geno in the game, but when you start seeing a character's hypothetical addition as an insult and reason to boycott a product, that's when I think you need to step back and reevaluate your perspective on this whole speculation business. There are lots of characters I don't like, or even hate the idea of ever being in Smash (coincidentally, Captain Toad and Waluigi are among them, and not just for being in direct competition with my boy), but you don't have me out here vowing to not buy this amazing game if any of them get in.
At the end of the day Smash is a product. If you're not satisfied with it why buy it? Veterans are great but I've played as them in previous games and I still own the games.

As someone who is having to be more select with my free cash and unable to see my Smash playing friends more and more, if Smash isn't offering me anything new I can get excited by then why bother purchasing it?
 

TCT~Phantom

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I mean I like debate but please be civil people. Don’t attack people and fanbases this much.

Also I am just gonna warn people right now that when this day ends discussion ends. No exceptions.
 

VexTheHex

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...Wait, what?
I saw them compared to each other based on their official artwork. I didn't really take it serious till I saw that one poster's avatar. Now it can't be unseen. Also Titan Dweevil for Smash Ult, size relations don't matter!!! :p

At the end of the day Smash is a product. If you're not satisfied with it why buy it? Veterans are great but I've played as them in previous games and I still own the games.

As someone who is having to be more select with my free cash and unable to see my Smash playing friends more and more, if Smash isn't offering me anything new I can get excited by then why bother purchasing it?
Egh, I feel Lip draws a certain umm... Lucas the Wizard crowd. Isaac and his popularity/chances have always been grossly over stated. Ridley looks wonky and silly barely bigger than Samus. Deciueye was over rated in Smash speculation to the point people become highly toxic to Mimikyu, Lycanroc, or any other suggestion. Pyra and Rex have ugly designs. And characters like Bayonetta and Travis don't really look good in Smash with their more sexual fetish personality and fighting style.

But, I think it's silly to ignore :ultrobin, :ultpeach:, :ultike:, :ultwolf:, :ultgreninja:, and others that I love simply at the idea of a few people I hate getting in. I don't think any character getting in should outrage someone enough to ignore all their beloved characters getting in. And for someone else, Travis, Lip, or Geno could be their :ultrobin, :ultpeach:, :ultike:, :ultwolf:, or :ultgreninja:!
 
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YoshiandToad

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I mean I like debate but please be civil people. Don’t attack people and fanbases this much.

Also I am just gonna warn people right now that when this day ends discussion ends. No exceptions.
In my defence I spoilered mine and gave fair warning it was going to be volatile.

If you then click on it and get upset at the contents...well, what do you want from me?
 

Runic_SSB

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Dang those terrible Geno fans requesting a character I don't like. What awful people.
First off, really not helping yourselves with the snide remarks. Second, that not the point. A lot of people don't want Geno because his fanbase annoys him. Those people won't be able to give want scores if it's against the rules to give their explanation.
 
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VexTheHex

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Yeah it's so weird a genuinely popular character actually being popular.
Not to get into Isaac too much, but your reply for Geno was "Sakurai has wanted the character in the game and he still hasn't happened yet. Why would now be different?"

Why would this mentality also not apply to Isaac? He could of been in since Brawl but was passed up very time. Why would now be different? His series is dead, ending on a downhill slide. His popularity in the east was never as large as North America or Europe. Geno got a Mii Costume in Smash 4, Isaac got removed. He's one of those characters that I often see supporters that don't even know anything about his game. "Isaac deserves to be in Smash, I know nothing about him though."

So I don't understand the idea that Geno is far fetched beyond reason while sporting better indications towards him more so than a Isaac who literally loss his place as AT.
 
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Honest Slug

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First off, really not helping yourselves with the snide remarks. Second, that not the point. A lot of people don't want Geno because his fanbase annoys him. Those people won't be able to give want scores if it's against the rules to give their explanation.
The problem is that I don't see how Geno fans have done anything wrong, we just want a character and you people are acting like we want Shrek. My "snide remark" is simply an observation of how over-the-top many of the detractors are acting.
 

Ze Diglett

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not that irrelevant, he had a 2009 wii game
Eh, he kind of is, especially considering his moveset is based on his appearances in the older Punch-Out games and only his design is taken from Punch-Out Wii.
incredibly historic and iconic third parties. ESPECIALLY pac-man.
But not relevant, especially Mega Man since Capcom just sorta stopped making games for him until Legacy Collection was a hit. Hence my point.
relevant when the roster was made. SSB64 released in 1999. Falcon had games in 1990, 1996, 1997, and 1998. Earthbound was in 1994. I'm a bit rusty on what happened w/ Lucas but I think he was added during development (and replaced Ness) because Mother 3 was still on track for an NA release, but then Ness was added back when Sakurai found out Mother 3 wasn't getting released outside of Japan. I might be wrong on that but regardless Mother 3 released in 2006, just two years before Brawl.
Fair enough, but if relevance was really as important as people like you are saying it is, none of these guys should be in the later games period. In reality, only one of them got cut once, and even then, he came back due to popular demand. Let's not forget that same character legit never appeared outside of Japan beyond Smash, so he was practically unrecognizable to the rest of the world as anything more than "Blonde Ness".
had his own movie, unique, incredibly popular and relevant when the roster was decided

incredibly iconic and popular? more known than geno? some of the most known characters in history?
squirtle/ivysaur/charizard - first starters of Pokemon
Mewtwo - main legendary of Pokemon
Jigglypuff - incredibly popular at the time of SSB64, relevant in the anime
See above for all except maybe Mewtwo and Charizard (even the former ended up getting cut once before being added back due to, again, popular demand). Also, forgive me, but how is Mewtwo the "main legendary of Pokemon"?
Zelda's alter-ego in the critically acclaimed Ocarina of Time, who gave Zelda's moveset a unique twist as she could transform during battle
Still irrelevant, even moreso than Mega Man and Pac-Man above since she's a one-off and not the main character of her series. It's almost like popularity matters or something...
literally mario lol and an easy clone (geno couldn't be a clone... unless it was of mii gunner???)
But the Dr. Mario series isn't relevant, nor even particularly popular. Unless clones are just exempt from this fan-fabricated relevancy rule, that alone should have kept him out of the roster completely.
relevant at the time of their respective games. Star Fox released in 1993 and its second game was in 1997. SSB64 was in 1999. Falco was a clone and Melee released just two years later in 2001.
You can say that for Fox, and I can even believe it for Falco somewhat, but they should both be long dead and Wolf should've never been added in the first place if the relevancy clause holds up. And the latter did get cut, but came back, once again, due to popular demand.
marth - mascot
roy - clone
ike - newest lord at the time of brawl
robin/lucina - faces of the very successful FE: Awakening, very popular and both are in Warriors
corrin - face of the newest FE game, most unique swordsman moveset in the roster, in Warriors
I'll give you Robin, Lucina, and Corrin since their games are relatively recent. The rest, however, basically only have Fire Emblem Heroes and, whaddyaknow, popularity from Smash to subsist on since Fire Emblem has a rotating cast of characters.
the wii console was a HUGE success and wii fit sold like 20 million. yeah we're past the wii now but imo she's like a retro/historical rep but for the wii.
But she's not a retro. She's just irrelevant, and largely was upon being revealed. That doesn't mean she shouldn't be in the game, though, as you said. The fact that you're even justifying these characters' inclusions despite being irrelevant goes against your entire point. If a character has merit as a fighter, they can get in despite being irrelevant or unrecognizable to today's youth.
IDK... from the looks of it when these characters were added most of them were relevant.
Let's see... ya got Falcon, Ness, Lucas (kind of, since he's a JP exclusive character outside of Smash) Jigglypuff, Lucario, Fox, maybe Falco, and the FE boys, who are chosen on a flavor-of-the-month basis anyway. That still leaves Mega Man, Pac-Man, Little Mac, Pit, Wii Fit Trainer, Dr. Mario, Sheik, Wolf, Mewtwo, and the Pokemon starters unaccounted for. If relevancy really matters as much as you think it does, what were these poor saps' excuses? And further, why does relevancy suddenly cease to matter once the character is already in? It's not like casual gamers today are gonna recognize most of these guys, even if they were relevant when they were added anywhere from 4 to 19 years ago.
so how'll geno get in?
Well, if legacy/popularity was good enough for Mega Man, Pac-Man, and Sheik, I'm willing to bet it's good enough for the longest-standing common character request yet to be fulfilled. I dunno, though. He's not relevant or anything.
 
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Organization XIII

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Not to get into Isaac too much, but your reply for Geno was "Sakurai has wanted the character in the game and he still hasn't happened yet. Why would now be different?"

Why would this mentality also not apply to Isaac? He could of been in since Brawl but was passed up very time. Why would now be different? His series is dead, ending on a downhill slide. His popularity in the east was never as large as North America or Europe. Geno got a Mii Costume in Smash 4, Isaac got removed. He's one of those characters that I often see supporters that don't even know anything about his game. "Isaac deserves to be in Smash, I know nothing about him though."
Actually the mentality doesn't apply to Isaac very well because most newcomers in Brawl had games in the 2005+ range Golden Sun TLA was in 2002 so we most likely an AT. In Smash 4 sure he had a better standing but the competition was incredibly fierce between characters and for all we know he could have been planned but just didn't quite make since even Bowser Jr barely made it and there was no reason to remove such a loved AT. Not to mention his series has outsold some series currently on the roster. Not to mention the Source Gaming collection of Japanese votes shows him in the top 20 so while the entirety of Japanese voters may not have placed him that highly it shows he still does have a good showing in the East. And finally the biggest reason thing won't with what you said is that Geno has licensing problems. So if it were up to Sakurai he would already be in but he's not because it's up to Square which is a totally different case from Isaac.
 
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Runic_SSB

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I mean those people could try and come up with reasons outside of some radical minority every character has
Okay but if it's genuinely the reason they don't want the character, then how can they explain their want score while still following the rules?

The problem is that I don't see how Geno fans have done anything wrong, we just want a character and you people are acting like we want Shrek. My "snide remark" is simply an observation of how over-the-top many of the detractors are acting.
It's the way you're acting about it. You guys have jumped on everyone who gave him a low score or said anything bad about him today, and you could've been nicer with a lot of the replies. For example, plainly stating your "simple observation" instead of turning it into snide, aggressive sarcasm.
 

NintenRob

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Well, if legacy/popularity was good enough for Mega Man, Pac-Man, and Sheik, I'm willing to bet it's good enough for the longest-standing common character request yet to be fulfilled. I dunno, though. He's not relevant or anything.
Did you really just compare Geno to Pac-Man and Mega Man??? Really? That's just absurd.

And Sheik didn't get in for legacy, she got in because of Zelda. Sheik was probably the most active Zelda had ever been in a Zelda game at the time time and stuck around because Sakurai doesn't like to cut characters. Hence why he brought everyone back when he got the chance
 

YoshiandToad

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The problem is that I don't see how Geno fans have done anything wrong, we just want a character and you people are acting like we want Shrek. My "snide remark" is simply an observation of how over-the-top many of the detractors are acting.
To be honest? You haven't done anything wrong. You can want whoever you want, but that doesn't mean everyone has to like it either, and I stand by my statement that Geno's smash support came mostly bandwagonly from Sakurai's comment on an old poll.

My favourites have been insulted by people plenty of times too. Certain users have been particularly vicious towards not only my choices for newcomers, but also my own work and I just shrug it off.

I forget some people take a hatred of their chosen character seriously. I got accused of taking joy in someone's pain simply because I once posted I heavily disliked the idea of Takamaru months before he was revealed as an assist trophy. Note I didn't mention Takamaru once between his assist trophy reveal and the accusation...
 
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VexTheHex

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Actually the mentality doesn't apply to Isaac very well because most newcomers in Brawl had games in the 2005+ range Golden Sun TLA was in 2002 so we most likely an AT. In Smash 4 sure he had a better standing but the competition was incredibly fierce between characters and for all we know he could have been planned but just didn't quite make since even Bowser Jr barely made it and there was no reason to remove such a loved AT. Not to mention his series has outsold some series currently on the roster. Not to mention the Source Gaming collection of Japanese votes shows him in the top 20 so while the entirety of Japanese voters may not have placed him that highly it shows he still does have a good showing in the East. And finally the biggest reason thing won't with what you said is that Geno has licensing problems. So if it were up to Sakurai he would already be in but he's not because it's up to Square which is a totally different case from Isaac.
Isaac was also shown lower on that scale than Waluigi, Krystal, and Takamaru. All 3 of these didn't make it into this game already. Geno also beat Isaac on that chart being passed around, Square is working with Nintendo clearly as :ultcloud: is here. License issues shouldn't be too bad with that indication. Geno did get a outfit alongside the missing AT Ashley (who also beat Isaac) for Smash 4. There's more pointing towards these other picks than Isaac.

Now to be fair, I never thought Daisy would be picked before Paper Mario, Waluigi, or some form of Toad. But she made it in. (as a fast and easy echo which the other 3 cannot do, to be fair) I just really don't think Isaac is as big as people make him out to be in the inner circle of Smash speculations.

I'd also want to say, I'm actually much more accepting of him over characters like Lip or Travis. I just think he gets overblown and made out to have a bigger shot than he truly does which has caused me some annoyance in regards to the character. If he gets in, I'm happy for you. I just think his battle is very uphill, and other like Ashley or Geno likely have a larger head start on him getting up that hill.
 

Honest Slug

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Okay but if it's genuinely the reason they don't want the character, then how can they explain their want score while still following the rules?


It's the way you're acting about it. You guys have jumped on everyone who gave him a low score or said anything bad about him today, and you could've been nicer with a lot of the replies. For example, plainly stating your "simple observation" instead of turning it into snide, aggressive sarcasm.
Lol I haven't jumped on everyone, I made 1 post, and it was directed at the 0% people, not just low scores. Giving Geno a low score is reasonable if you feel that way, 0% is ridiculous and should be reserved for Blue Bowser-type characters.

I'm not being mean either, I'm using people's own logic against them, I wasn't the one who made them call Geno fans bad, they did that to themselves. If people's own logic is mean then maybe they should stop doing it.

To be honest? You haven't done anything wrong. You can want whoever you want, but that doesn't mean everyone has to like it either, and I stand by my statement that Geno's smash support came mostly bandwagonly from Sakurai's comment on an old poll.

My favourites have been insulted by people plenty of times too. Certain users have been particularly vicious towards not only my choices for newcomers, but also my own work and I just shrug it off.

I forget some people take a hatred of their chosen character seriously. I got accused of taking joy in someone's pain simply because I once posted I heavily disliked the idea of Takamaru months before he was revealed as an assist trophy. Note I didn't mention Takamaru once between his assist trophy reveal and the accusation...
Didn't Geno get a lot of support for Brawl, I thought his comment was kinda a response towards his popularity. That's what I remember when I read it, I could be wrong though.
 
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Bit of a hot button, but may as well throw my hat into the ring;
Geno
Chance: 20-25% - I honestly don't see Geno as incredibly likely, but given his popularity among a group of fans and Sakurai's noted interest in trying to get him in before, I can see him getting in this time; but he has stiff competition from other potential choices, especially from the FF roster. I could definitely see him getting in, but we also know Sakurai's considered other FF characters, too, which might complicate things for Geno; especially if he's still a Mii costume. It wouldn't kill his chances, but it might complicate them.

Want: 10% - I won't sugarcoat it; I really am at best ambivalent to Geno's inclusion in Smash. I wouldn't throw a tantrum over it (lord, if I ever do that, just kill me on the spot), but it wouldn't be a massive hype-bringing announcement to me, either. It's the kind of announcement that would just be an "eh" moment for me. He's a big request, but I imagine other third-parties may have gotten even bigger amounts of requests, and if this game is about adding extremely popular Ballot picks that didn't get in beforehand, I'm not sure about Geno. It's a solid chance, but not one I'd be incredibly excited for.

Dillon
Chance: 5% (Fighter), 90% (Assist Trophy) - Given how mediocre the DRW games have sold, I'm not convinced that Dillon is likely at all to become a fighter. I definitely see him as very likely to return as an AT, though, especially since far more obscure characters (Sukapon) are in as AT's.

Want - 3% - I really could care less for Dillon as a fighter, though. He's still possible, but I would absolutely consider him highly unlikely.
 
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Organization XIII

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Isaac was also shown lower on that scale than Waluigi, Krystal, and Takamaru. All 3 of these didn't make it into this game already. Geno also beat Isaac on that chart being passed around, Square is working with Nintendo clearly as :ultcloud: is here. License issues shouldn't be too bad with that indication. Geno did get a outfit alongside the missing AT Ashley (who also beat Isaac) for Smash 4. There's more pointing towards these other picks than Isaac.

Now to be fair, I never thought Daisy would be picked before Paper Mario, Waluigi, or some form of Toad. But she made it in. (as a fast and easy echo which the other 3 cannot do, to be fair) I just really don't think Isaac is as big as people make him out to be in the inner circle of Smash speculations.

I'd also want to say, I'm actually much more accepting of him over characters like Lip or Travis. I just think he gets overblown and made out to have a bigger shot than he truly does which has caused me some annoyance in regards to the character. If he gets in, I'm happy for you. I just think his battle is very uphill, and other like Ashley or Geno likely have a larger head start on him getting up that hill.
Um Takamaru is nowhere near as popular as Isaac. I don't know what scale you're talking about but there's literally no way he beats Isaac in popularity and that's as a Takamaru fan as well. And I get you might not think he's as popular as he is but I know he is. Especially during the ballot. And again yes Square let him have Cloud but Geno couldn't make it as playable. If he didn't make it then he likely doesn't have a better chance now. Sakurai discussed Geno with them and the best he got was a Mii outfit. I like Geno but if he was going to happen it would have been before Ultimate.
 

Organization XIII

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Okay but if it's genuinely the reason they don't want the character, then how can they explain their want score while still following the rules?
They can either reevaluate the character based solely on his merits and determine want based on that or they can abstain
 

Ze Diglett

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Did you really just compare Geno to Pac-Man and Mega Man??? Really? That's just absurd.
My point is that what Geno lacks in recognizability, which people for some reason seem to think is a requisite to being in Smash despite the fact that folks like Ness and Captain Falcon are still in the game and we have an entire genre of characters that are specifically unrecognizable (Retros), he makes up for in sheer fan pull, which is especially relevant with this upcoming Smash game. If you don't agree with that, then I don't know what to tell you. All I suggest is that you respect Geno's chances, because they've never been better and are certainly better than 0.1%.
Honestly, I'm just waiting for this day to be over already. All the negativity and hate in this thread today is just giving me a headache and making me sick of speculation.
 
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Klimax

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Geno
Chances: 5%
I wouldn't say that he has no chance because we can never say that, but i can't imagine Geno being in Smash Brothers. I like Geno and for years, he was one of my top 3 most wanted newcomers. But i think that his popularity is not as big as people think. In Europe, this guy is just a no name. People are like "who the hell is that Geno ?" because SMRPG never got released in Europe. The good things for Geno is that Sakurai likes him and that his fanbase is very vocal. But i think that's just a vocal minority. I don't see it happening.

Want: 65%
I really like him, but there's many characters that i prefer/think are more deserving. I would like to see him but I don't really care if he's not.


Dillon
Chances: 50%
I think his case is a coin toss, i can imagine him being in Smash, his franchise has now three games, he has a cool design and could be unique. But i'm not so sure that he's that popular, i don't even know if his franchise is popular. So, i don't have any idea.

Want: 85%
He looks cool, could be unique, could represent another franchise, i would be definitely happy to see him. But if he's still an AT, that's okay.
 

Runic_SSB

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Lol I haven't jumped on everyone, I made 1 post
You haven't, but other Geno fans ITT have.

They can either reevaluate the character based solely on his merits and determine want based on that or they can abstain
Um, no. People can dislike something for whatever reason they want. You don't get to decide what opinions should and shouldn't count.
 

YoshiandToad

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Lol I haven't jumped on everyone, I made 1 post, and it was directed at the 0% people, not just low scores. Giving Geno a low score is reasonable if you feel that way, 0% is ridiculous and should be reserved for Blue Bowser-type characters.

I'm not being mean either, I'm using people's own logic against them, I wasn't the one who made them call Geno fans bad, they did that to themselves. If people's own logic is mean then maybe they should stop doing it.


Didn't Geno get a lot of support for Brawl, I thought his comment was kinda a response towards his popularity. That's what I remember when I read it, I could be wrong though.
From what I recall(and feel free to correct me if I'm wrong) the Geno comment came from a small group of people in Japan that were polled on who they'd like in. Many others did far better I the poll but Geno stood out because he was a weird choice.

The interview, I believe was released during the Dojo days which is when those low numbers suddenly snowballed.
 
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Houndstooth

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Alabama
From what I recall(and feel free to correct me if I'm wrong) the Geno comment came from a small group of people in Japan that were polled on who they'd like in. Many others did far better I the poll but Geno stood out because he was a weird choice.

The interview, I believe was released during the Dojo days which is when those low numbers suddenly snowballed.
It's been so long since I've paid attention to the speculation (Brawl days) that I would like to know the history of Geno's rise in speculation. Cause I remember being surprised to see his popularity back then. It's just been so long since Brawl speculation! Can't remember it all now. Haha.
 

DreamcastBoy99

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Simon Belmont

Chance: 72%
He’s a classic NES icon with a unique moveset. However, Konami is very difficult to work with I presume.

Want: 100%
Being a big Castlevania fan, if Simon gets in, I’ll be just as excited as when Mega Man got in 5 years ago.
 

TCT~Phantom

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Simon Belmont

Chance: 72%
He’s a classic NES icon with a unique moveset. However, Konami is very difficult to work with I presume.

Want: 100%
Being a big Castlevania fan, if Simon gets in, I’ll be just as excited as when Mega Man got in 5 years ago.
Not simons day. Rate Geno and Dillon.
 
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