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[Skyfox2000]

About that Stage Hazard in Pyrospear could that be Meta Ridley. btw whats the difference between Ridley and Meta Ridley?

 

[PK_Wonder]

I forgot nominations were open again!

Standalone Pokemon Trainer x5

As the self-proclaimed list tider, we can clear these nominations:
x44 Chibi Robo Rerate
x22 Metal Sonic (Sonic the Hedgehog) (trophy)
X22 Three Fire Emblem Characters (obvious)
X18 Chrom [Stance-Based Moveset] (No Chrom)
x8 Takamaru Rerate (just did)
x5 Four Fire Emblem Characters (confirmed)

 

[JaidynReiman]

About that Stage Hazard in Pyrospear could that be Meta Ridley. btw whats the difference between Ridley and Meta Ridley?

No its not. Meta Ridley is just Ridley with mechanical parts added to him to aid in regeneration. He literally is the same Ridley.


Love how people comment on Ridley's tail being the same size as Pikachu, except we know for a fact that its right up close to the camera... EVERYTHING looks huge close up to the camera. The better example is Ridley's tail shadow on the back pillar, which is tiny (and yes, on the Pyrosphere shadows are 1:1, if not slightly larger than the character while in the air).

Either way, looking forward to seeing how everything plays out.

 

[Pacack]

x8 Takamaru Rerate (just did)

Actually, new news has come up for Takamaru. I'm actually nominating him and would really appreciate it if we didn't clear the existing noms, since there's only eight.

 

[shrooby]

So, Groose, I know you and a lot of others are big fans of the Phoenix Wright franchise, yeah?

Well, in honor of the last time I plan on rating a character (Unless by some weird-ass reason we rate Ridley or K. Rool again) I’m gonna be going all out.

But just doing plain ol’ Phoenix Wright has been done. Ohoho, no, that wouldn’t leave enough of an impact!

Instead, I'm going to...

…

break you.

If by the end I have destroyed the Phoenix Wright fandom, then I have done my job!
Oh, and I'll be honest , I've never actually played an Ace Attorney game, so I have no idea what I'm doing!

Spoiler

The court is now in session for the probability of Ridley from Metroid being a playable character in Super Smash Bros for Wii U and 3DS.
Mr. Wright, how do y-

​

Y-you’re not Phoenix Wright!
​

​

No, I’m not. I’m Haruhi Suzumiya, your honor, and I’ll be taking the aforementioned attorney’s place today. See, ordinary “Rate Their Chances” posts involving Phoenix Wright are unoriginal and uninteresting. Though I assure you, your honor, I will provide a much stronger case than he ever has.

​

Umm-uh… Well… Okay…then…
​

​

I declare that Ridley is, beyond a shadow of a doubt, a playable character.
​

And… What say the…
​

​

Oh, of course, no Mr. Edgeworth either.​

I apologize for the sudden change and confusion, your honor. My name is Itsuki Koizumi, and I’ll be taking Mr. Miles Edgeworth’s place today. I proclaim that Ridley is, as was hinted at, a stage hazard on Pyrosphere.
​

​

…*sigh* I don’t feel like dealing with this today. You two can handle this without me, yes? Of course you can. Good day.

He… left… Are judges even allowed to do that?

​

Let’s not delve on that for now and just continue as usual. I’m sure we can still have a civil enough discussion. Why don’t you present your case first, Ms. Suzumiya?
​

​

Okay then... Ridley is, without a doubt, a playable character. Mr. Sakurai has merely been “hyping up” Ridley. It’s a logical conclusion, and is based off of three facts:
​

​

First, Mr. Sakurai always fully shows nonplayable characters and illuminates on their role. He has done this much more bluntly with some of the more popular characters such as Ashley, Waluigi, and Skull Kid.
​

Second, Nintendo, and Mr. Sakurai, do listen to fans. Even though it was used as the butt of a joke, Nintendo acknowledged the outcry for a localized Mother 3 and a new Star Fox game in their Digital Event at this year’s E3. Regardless of whether they go through with either, though they’ve gone through with one those things, it still shows that they are aware of what their fans want. Mr. Sakurai even said in the Smash Direct that he has “player expectations to fulfill” when introducing Lucario’s mega evolution.
​

And lastly, Ridley, whether positively, negatively, or neutrally, is one of the most talked about character with regards to Smash Bros.
Ridley Smash4 videos, whether they be Shokio's or whoever's, get many views for a reason. GameFAQs gets those tons a Ridley troll threads for a reason. The Ridley support thread is, by far, the largest character support thread on Smashboards for a reason.

​

Now, Koizumi, surely we can both agree on these three things, yes?
​

​

I suppose I can, at the very least, accept them with some degree of truth.
​

​

Good, then we arrive at what happened during the fateful moment in the Smash Direct.
​

Ridley’s shadow on Pyrosphere.
​

“Boss characters make appearances on other stages, not just this one.”
​

Or, perhaps better to present, the original un-translated version of what Mr. Sakurai said: “他にもボスキャラ系の仕掛けが登場.” Which roughly translates to “other boss character system gimmicks come up.”
​

“Oh, Ridley, stage hazard on Pyrosphere. Okay, see ya. I'm not sure why they didn't just show him and say his name, but oh well.” A conclusion came to by many. And it’s understandable to come to such a conclusion based on this alone.
​

​

But I’m not basing my case on just this! I have meaningful context which comes from the three facts I said before. When considering those three facts, it makes Mr. Sakurai’s course of action with Ridley seem a lot more suspicious! Why ambiguously “show” one of the most talked about characters in a non-playable role when he’s very aware so many people desire said character to be playable? Why prepare people for a kick in the groin when he could instead just do it immediately like he’s done with every other character?
​

Because it’s in order to “hype up” Ridley’s reveal as, in reality, a playable character and make it incredibly unexpected for most people. What better way to surprise people than with a character that most though was flat-out disconfirmed? He knows that people clamor on and on about Ridley, whether for or against. If Ridley isn’t playable, then he would have no reason to act out of his own disconfirming norm. The answer is that he wouldn’t. In one of his own columns Famitsu, Mr. Sakurai himself wrote that he does not like to create “needless speculation.” But if Ridley is actually playable, then that would mean the speculation his shadow nonsense ensued not “needless,” but actually serve as a form of “hype building.”

​

With all these things considered, there’s only one logical conclusion!
​

​

​

While I can see how such a conclusion is logical, it’s based on a very important assumption being made.
​

​

You are assuming Mr. Sakurai views these “boss character system gimmicks” as just as important as any other way in which a character is not playable. Mr. Sakurai first showed us the Yellow Devil in a rather vague way. Granted, it was clear he was not playable, but it was not clear exactly what purpose he served. Many speculated it would be a mere stage hazard, while others considered it a glimpse at the return of boss battles from Super Smash Bros. Brawl. We were only provided actual insight into how this “gimmick” will work through giving the Yellow Devil its very own section in the Super Smash Bros. Direct, and he spent a noticeable amount of time discussing exactly how the gimmick in question works. Such actions seem to convey the belief that what seem like merely glorified stage hazards to us are actually very important pieces of the game that are worth treating in a “hype building” way. In short, who is to say that Mr. Sakurai does or does not think that these “gimmicks” are worth “hyping up?” Who is to say that the speculation induced by “boss characters” is “needless” in Mr. Sakurai’s eyes?

​

If I assume Mr. Sakurai does see these “boss characters” as something worth causing a stir about, then I can also make the argument that it makes sense to only show the shadow. By not clearly showing anything regarding Ridley’s design, besides his tail briefly making it into the shot, or his exact method of attack, Mr. Sakurai could induce speculation regarding how Ridley as a “boss character” on Pyrosphere will function. How could we know if he views such speculation as “needless?” It would certainly make sense if he does not, and this goes into my own answer to the question regarding why Mr. Sakurai has not shown Ridley in any shape or form since the Smash Direct. In the case that Ridley is indeed a “boss character” on Pyrosphere, it would presumably be a Wii U exclusive. Leaving speculation regarding Smash Bros. for Wii U is important because it comes out after Smash Bros. for 3DS. As has been made clear, we’ll know the entire roster of playable characters before the Wii U version comes out due to it sharing its roster with the 3DS version. This is also why we probably have not seen anything regarding single player modes in the Wii U version; it is because Mr. Sakurai wants to keep as much speculation towards that version open so as to not let the “hype die down,” as one might say.

​

And all of this was based on my assumption which is the exact opposite of yours.
​

​

So, with my argument proposed, Ms. Suzumiya, I ask you this: Why is your assumption a safer one than my own?
​

​

Because it's based off more substantial analysis!
​

If what you assume is true, then it would mean that Mr. Sakurai doesn’t know what fans actually care about the most! It would mean that he is out of touch with his own fans. And if the changes to physics, online, and the inclusion of Mega Man, Little Mac, and Palutena are anything to go by, he certainly isn’t out of touch when developing these games.

​

He said it himself when he began discussing the playable characters in the Smash Direct:
​

“And now what you’ve all been waiting for: the fighters.”
​

It’s the characters that cause most of the mountains of speculatory discussion. It’s the characters that get the trailers. It's the characters that get sections on the official website. It’s the characters that seemingly get vague hints. Yellow Devil may have been showed in a somewhat vague way that didn’t quite make its role clear, but it was clear that it wasn’t a playable character. With Ridley it’s different. It’s possible to argue that Ridley is playable based on what we’ve seen and the context surrounding it. But that isn’t even what I’m talking about when I said “more substantial analysis.”
​

This is where we get into the analysis of what we’ve actually been given: the shadow.

​

The Ridley Support Thread has gone through tons of analysis regarding the shadow and has come up with very interesting findings of which I will show the most pertinent.
I’ll trust that the second post of the Ridley Support Thread, specifically the “SHADOW EVIDENCE” section, will provide the crux of the necessary analysis I am speaking of.

​

All Mr. Sakurai did by just showing the shadow was imply that there is something worth hiding in regards to Ridley. You’re right, he could just want to hide details of Ridley’s boss appearance and mannerisms, but if the shadow analysis tells me anything, it’s that Mr. Sakurai went out of his way to make a Ridley model that not only moves in a rather odd way when compared to all other bosses we’ve seen in Super Smash Bros., but is also of a seemingly playable size.

So, now, the question: why would Mr. Sakurai go out of his way to make a relatively small Ridley be a stage hazard on a rather large stage, and why would he make this boss’ mannerisms such that it seems this boss would not lend itself to being very well designed in terms of dealing with players?

It’s because Ridley isn’t actually a “boss character!”
​

​

A rather solid case, Ms. Suzumiya, but an immediate problem to both of us just occurred to me.
​

And that would be…?

With the judge gone… We aren’t able to get a ruling

…
​

I suppose we’ll just wait until the game comes out then.​

Okay, no more. You get the point! I’m also sure that that’s enough fandom-ruining for now.
Gods, I had to rip and resize all of those GIFs on my own. It was worth it though!

Groose, I give Ridley a 99% chance of being playable. I acknowledge the fact that the other side is not exactly unfounded. Far from it, but I think that my own stance is well-grounded as well! I have much confidence and, after being rather confident in Stage Hazardley for some months after the Smash Direct, am fully prepared in what I think to be the 1% chance that I’m completely wrong in analyzing Sakurai’s ways.

For my want score, I’ll quote a post I made from when we rated Ridley on another day.

Now, onto the...big one.

I'll be honest, I've never completed a Metroid game. Heck, up until I played (But didn't complete) Super Metroid a year or two ago I had never even played a Metroid game. The series never interested me, bar my recent urge to try out the previously mentioned Super and, more recently, Prime. (Though I've only played about an hour of each.) However, even before I've ever touched a Metroid game, Ridley was my most wanted character for these games.
Up until 2011 I wasn't into speculation. I didn't really care what characters we got, I just kinda rolled with it. Ridley was the first character I legitimately supported and was the character that basically introduced me to this whole community. (Granted, back then it was just one single thread, but once character threads started popping up it really got moving.) So despite not having any attachment to the Metroid franchise as a whole, I do have much attachment to Ridley. And that goes into my first reason for wanting him: the satisfaction of seeing the first character I ever actually supported finally get his time to shine.
Another reason I want Ridley is to see his increasingly large hatebase finally get what-for. I like to see those that have personally insulted my views get what's coming to them when it's as something as arbitrary and, in the grand scheme of things, as insignificant as characters in a video game. This is the lesser of the reasons I will present, but I can't say it's not a reason either, so I still present it.
But now onto the actual reason I began supporting Ridley to begin with.
When I look for character that I want to see playable, the biggest thing I look for is if that character is important enough in their franchise and Nintendo as whole. If they're an "All-Star" if you want to call it that. Smash, the way I see it, is supposed to take these "All-Stars" and pit them against each other. The Smash roster is a list of Nintendo's finest. The greats, representative of big aspects of the world of this company that we all love. The way I see it, there is no character that should be included but hasn't yet more than Ridley.
Ridley, the main antagonist of the critically acclaimed Metroid franchise. A character that's existed since the NES days. A character as important to Metroid as Ganon(dorf) is to Zelda, if not even more-so. A character so ingrained in lore that the main character herself would not even be the character we know without his integral part in the backstory.
This huge franchise sets Ridley up as this incredibly important piece of this picture. Samus' mortal enemy that robbed her of everyone she knew, and set her up for the path that we were introduced to in the original game way back when.
The fact that such an important and long lasting character from such an important and long lasting franchise, an "All-Star" if you will, hasn't been included, at the time of learning all of this, astounded this 'ere new speculator. I read through the other character threads as well, granted. King K. Rool had my support. As did Mega Man, Little Mac, Mewtwo, what have you. But Ridley, was, is, and will always be at the top of my list. That is, until he's finally included.
I will reiterate my thoughts, and I care not if you disagree: of the characters that have not yet been playable in Super Smash Bros, there is no character more worthy of inclusion than Ridley. That alone is what gives my all the confidence I need to type the following...
Groose, mark my Want for Ridley as 100 percent. A rating I never did and never will give to any other possible newcomer for these iterations of Super Smash Bros.

Ridley was and is my most wanted character. Nothing has changed.

The only newcomer I will give my 100% Want is to the big, purple, commander of the space pirates, he who will not ever truly stay dead, the one and only Cunning God of Death, Ridley. Praise be unto him

…

I abstain from Chibi Robo.

…

And, just some last more general words.

While I haven’t necessarily posted a lot in this game in the past year, I’ve been with this game since before many of the more frequent participants even had accounts. It’ll be sad to see it go once character speculation dies down. (Though, I suppose it could move on to other kinds of Wii U speculation as well.)

Groose and Co., you’ve done an excellent job carrying (the artist formally known as) Super Smash Bros. Fan’s torch. I hope when Smash 5, err, 6, roles around we’ll be able to see this game's return. It’s been a fun ride, and I hope the next time is even better!

And I also hope that next time we’ll be rating the chance of Ridley, the veteran, returning for another installment.

Spoiler

Oh, right, how could a forget:

X5 Brash the Freakin’ Bear

 

[Groose]

I don't think any of these characters have much of a chance of being playable, but not having much of a chance =/= having no chance at all.

I agree with this. Personally, I would not have the majority those characters marked as deconfirmed, but one of the mods updated the post for me to help and marked them that way in the process. I just haven't requested them labeled back because it'll almost definitely be pointless in a month, anyway.

Well, what the hell?

Nominations:
x5 Brash the Friggin’ Bear


Just to get this stupid thing out of the way for BKupa's sake.

If you don't nominate it, I will. We are definitely doing this before we get a GAME OVER.

I'm tired of hearing him. I don't hate him, but I really couldn't care less about him.

Honestly, this may be one of the few major characters we don't share a common opinion on. Just noting that down.

I assume this is why most of our predictions and theories on how the roster is decided end up being completely and utterly wrong?

Ex: Villager, Wii Fit Trainer, Toon Link, Rosalina, Lucario, Greninja, Ike, Robin, Lucina, and No-Chrom.

I take issue with the bolded statement. We never said Greninja was unlikely. We just never talked about him.

Standalone Pokemon Trainer x5

As the self-proclaimed list tider, we can clear these nominations:
x44 Chibi Robo Rerate
x22 Metal Sonic (Sonic the Hedgehog) (trophy)
X22 Three Fire Emblem Characters (obvious)
X18 Chrom [Stance-Based Moveset] (No Chrom)
x8 Takamaru Rerate (just did)
x5 Four Fire Emblem Characters (confirmed)

I had just taken care of most of these while you were typing that up, but I had no idea about Metal Sonic. I'm marking him off now.

So, Groose, I know you and a lot of others are big fans of the Phoenix Wright franchise, yeah?

Well, in honor of the last time I plan on rating a character (Unless by some weird-*** reason we rate Ridley or K. Rool again) I’m gonna be going all out.

But just doing plain ol’ Phoenix Wright has been done. Ohoho, no, that wouldn’t leave enough of an impact!

Instead, I'm going to...

…

break you.

If by the end I have destroyed the Phoenix Wright fandom, then I have done my job!
Oh, and I'll be honest , I've never actually played an Ace Attorney game, so I have no idea what I'm doing!

Spoiler

The court is now in session for the probability of Ridley from Metroid being a playable character in Super Smash Bros for Wii U and 3DS.
Mr. Wright, how do y-

​

Y-you’re not Phoenix Wright!
​

​

No, I’m not. I’m Haruhi Suzumiya, your honor, and I’ll be taking the aforementioned attorney’s place today. See, ordinary “Rate Their Chances” posts involving Phoenix Wright are unoriginal and uninteresting. Though I assure you, your honor, I will provide a much stronger case than he ever has.

​

Umm-uh… Well… Okay…then…
​

​

I declare that Ridley is, beyond a shadow of a doubt, a playable character.
​

And… What say the…
​

​

Oh, of course, no Mr. Edgeworth either.​

I apologize for the sudden change and confusion, your honor. My name is Itsuki Koizumi, and I’ll be taking Mr. Miles Edgeworth’s place today. I proclaim that Ridley is, as was hinted at, a stage hazard on Pyrosphere.
​

​

…*sigh* I don’t feel like dealing with this today. You two can handle this without me, yes? Of course you can. Good day.

He… left… Are judges even allowed to do that?

​

Let’s not delve on that for now and just continue as usual. I’m sure we can still have a civil enough discussion. Why don’t you present your case first, Ms. Suzumiya?
​

​

Okay then... Ridley is, without a doubt, a playable character. Mr. Sakurai has merely been “hyping up” Ridley. It’s a logical conclusion, and is based off of three facts:
​

​

First, Mr. Sakurai always fully shows nonplayable characters and illuminates on their role. He has done this much more bluntly with some of the more popular characters such as Ashley, Waluigi, and Skull Kid.
​

Second, Nintendo, and Mr. Sakurai, do listen to fans. Even though it was used as the butt of a joke, Nintendo acknowledged the outcry for a localized Mother 3 and a new Star Fox game in their Digital Event at this year’s E3. Regardless of whether they go through with either, though they’ve gone through with one those things, it still shows that they are aware of what their fans want. Mr. Sakurai even said in the Smash Direct that he has “player expectations to fulfill” when introducing Lucario’s mega evolution.
​

And lastly, Ridley, whether positively, negatively, or neutrally, is one of the most talked about character with regards to Smash Bros.
Ridley Smash4 videos, whether they be Shokio's or whoever's, get many views for a reason. GameFAQs gets those tons a Ridley troll threads for a reason. The Ridley support thread is, by far, the largest character support thread on Smashboards for a reason.

​

Now, Koizumi, surely we can both agree on these three things, yes?
​

​

I suppose I can, at the very least, accept them with some degree of truth.
​

​

Good, then we arrive at what happened during the fateful moment in the Smash Direct.
​

Ridley’s shadow on Pyrosphere.
​

“Boss characters make appearances on other stages, not just this one.”
​

Or, perhaps better to present, the original un-translated version of what Mr. Sakurai said: “他にもボスキャラ系の仕掛けが登場.” Which roughly translates to “other boss character system gimmicks come up.”
​

“Oh, Ridley, stage hazard on Pyrosphere. Okay, see ya. I'm not sure why they didn't just show him and say his name, but oh well.” A conclusion came to by many. And it’s understandable to come to such a conclusion based on this alone.
​

​

But I’m not basing my case on just this! I have meaningful context which comes from the three facts I said before. When considering those three facts, it makes Mr. Sakurai’s course of action with Ridley seem a lot more suspicious! Why ambiguously “show” one of the most talked about characters in a non-playable role when he’s very aware so many people desire said character to be playable? Why prepare people for a kick in the groin when he could instead just do it immediately like he’s done with every other character?
​

Because it’s in order to “hype up” Ridley’s reveal as, in reality, a playable character and make it incredibly unexpected for most people. What better way to surprise people than with a character that most though was flat-out disconfirmed? He knows that people clamor on and on about Ridley, whether for or against. If Ridley isn’t playable, then he would have no reason to act out of his own disconfirming norm. The answer is that he wouldn’t. In one of his own columns Famitsu, Mr. Sakurai himself wrote that he does not like to create “needless speculation.” But if Ridley is actually playable, then that would mean the speculation his shadow nonsense ensued not “needless,” but actually serve as a form of “hype building.”

​

With all these things considered, there’s only one logical conclusion!
​

View attachment 19625

​

​

While I can see how such a conclusion is logical, it’s based on a very important assumption being made.
​

​

You are assuming Mr. Sakurai views these “boss character system gimmicks” as just as important as any other way in which a character is not playable. Mr. Sakurai first showed us the Yellow Devil in a rather vague way. Granted, it was clear he was not playable, but it was not clear exactly what purpose he served. Many speculated it would be a mere stage hazard, while others considered it a glimpse at the return of boss battles from Super Smash Bros. Brawl. We were only provided actual insight into how this “gimmick” will work through giving the Yellow Devil its very own section in the Super Smash Bros. Direct, and he spent a noticeable amount of time discussing exactly how the gimmick in question works. Such actions seem to convey the belief that what seem like merely glorified stage hazards to us are actually very important pieces of the game that are worth treating in a “hype building” way. In short, who is to say that Mr. Sakurai does or does not think that these “gimmicks” are worth “hyping up?” Who is to say that the speculation induced by “boss characters” is “needless” in Mr. Sakurai’s eyes?

​

If I assume Mr. Sakurai does see these “boss characters” as something worth causing a stir about, then I can also make the argument that it makes sense to only show the shadow. By not clearly showing anything regarding Ridley’s design, besides his tail briefly making it into the shot, or his exact method of attack, Mr. Sakurai could induce speculation regarding how Ridley as a “boss character” on Pyrosphere will function. How could we know if he views such speculation as “needless?” It would certainly make sense if he does not, and this goes into my own answer to the question regarding why Mr. Sakurai has not shown Ridley in any shape or form since the Smash Direct. In the case that Ridley is indeed a “boss character” on Pyrosphere, it would presumably be a Wii U exclusive. Leaving speculation regarding Smash Bros. for Wii U is important because it comes out after Smash Bros. for 3DS. As has been made clear, we’ll know the entire roster of playable characters before the Wii U version comes out due to it sharing its roster with the 3DS version. This is also why we probably have not seen anything regarding single player modes in the Wii U version; it is because Mr. Sakurai wants to keep as much speculation towards that version open so as to not let the “hype die down,” as one might say.

​

And all of this was based on my assumption which is the exact opposite of yours.
​

​

So, with my argument proposed, Ms. Suzumiya, I ask you this: Why is your assumption a safer one than my own?
​

​

Because it's based off more substantial analysis!
​

If what you assume is true, then it would mean that Mr. Sakurai doesn’t know what fans actually care about the most! It would mean that he is out of touch with his own fans. And if the changes to physics, online, and the inclusion of Mega Man, Little Mac, and Palutena are anything to go by, he certainly isn’t out of touch when developing these games.

​

He said it himself when he began discussing the playable characters in the Smash Direct:
​

“And now what you’ve all been waiting for: the fighters.”
​

It’s the characters that cause most of the mountains of speculatory discussion. It’s the characters that get the trailers. It's the characters that get sections on the official website. It’s the characters that seemingly get vague hints. Yellow Devil may have been showed in a somewhat vague way that didn’t quite make its role clear, but it was clear that it wasn’t a playable character. With Ridley it’s different. It’s possible to argue that Ridley is playable based on what we’ve seen and the context surrounding it. But that isn’t even what I’m talking about when I said “more substantial analysis.”
​

This is where we get into the analysis of what we’ve actually been given: the shadow.

​

The Ridley Support Thread has gone through tons of analysis regarding the shadow and has come up with very interesting findings of which I will show the most pertinent.
I’ll trust that the second post of the Ridley Support Thread, specifically the “SHADOW EVIDENCE” section, will provide the crux of the necessary analysis I am speaking of.

​

All Mr. Sakurai did by just showing the shadow was imply that there is something worth hiding in regards to Ridley. You’re right, he could just want to hide details of Ridley’s boss appearance and mannerisms, but if the shadow analysis tells me anything, it’s that Mr. Sakurai went out of his way to make a Ridley model that not only moves in a rather odd way when compared to all other bosses we’ve seen in Super Smash Bros., but is also of a seemingly playable size.

So, now, the question: why would Mr. Sakurai go out of his way to make a relatively small Ridley be a stage hazard on a rather large stage, and why would he make this boss’ mannerisms such that it seems this boss would not lend itself to being very well designed in terms of dealing with players?

It’s because Ridley isn’t actually a “boss character!”
​

​

A rather solid case, Ms. Suzumiya, but an immediate problem to both of us just occurred to me.
​

And that would be…?

With the judge gone… We aren’t able to get a ruling

…
​

I suppose we’ll just wait until the game comes out then.​

Okay, no more. You get the point! I’m also sure that that’s enough fandom-ruining for now.
Gods, I had to rip and resize all of those GIFs on my own. It was worth it though!

Groose, I give Ridley a 99% chance of being playable. I acknowledge the fact that the other side is not exactly unfounded. Far from it, but I think that my own stance is well-grounded as well! I have much confidence and, after being rather confident in Stage Hazardley for some months after the Smash Direct, am fully prepared in what I think to be the 1% chance that I’m completely wrong in analyzing Sakurai’s ways.

For my want score, I’ll quote a post I made from when we rated Ridley on another day.



Ridley was and is my most wanted character. Nothing has changed.

The only newcomer I will give my 100% Want is to the big, purple, commander of the space pirates, he who will not ever truly stay dead, the one and only Cunning God of Death, Ridley. Praise be unto him

…

I abstain from Chibi Robo.

…

And, just some last more general words.

While I haven’t necessarily posted a lot in this game in the past year, I’ve been with this game since before many of the more frequent participants even had accounts. It’ll be sad to see it go once character speculation dies down. (Though, I suppose it could move on to other kinds of Wii U speculation as well.)

Groose and Co., you’ve done an excellent job carrying (the artist formally known as) Super Smash Bros. Fan’s torch. I hope when Smash 5, err, 6, roles around we’ll be able to see this game's return. It’s been a fun ride, and I hope the next time is even better!

And I also hope that next time we’ll be rating the chance of Ridley, the veteran, returning for another installment.

Spoiler

Oh, right, how could a forget:

X5 Brash the Freakin’ Bear

I was going to say your post was amazing. And then I saw your nominations for Brash the Freakin' Bear.

...it got even better with that line.

Chibi Robo: 15% chance and 75% want
I used to think that we had a pretty good shot at getting one of those characters from the Gamecube era series. I gave pretty solid scores to Chibi, Ray, and a small group of others, but nowadays I only really see Chibi as having much of a chance. I do doubt he'll make it in, but it's not impossible.

Ridley: Abstain Chance and 100% Want
I don't want to discuss Ridley's chances. I will say this--my brain tells me that they're large, but my heart tells me not to listen. Anyway, I'm absolutely sick of the discussion about whether or not he's in; I hate how people have turned it from a rational debate into a meme.

One thing that I'm not sick, though, is the thought of Ridley in Smash. I don't really like to visit the Ridley thread or stuff like that anymore in fear of raising false hopes or getting dragged into petty debate, but I still really want the character in. He's my second-most wanted, and I'd be thrilled if he does show up. If he doesn't? I'm prepared for that scenario.

DAY OVER

RIDLEY'S BIG EXIT!​

 

[Arcanir]

Ridley
Chances: No clue.
I honestly don't know how to feel about this. After the July trailer, I got more confidant in his chances, and not because of the leak taking a hit, but rather because of what Nintendo did with one of its characters. Chrom was a character that was rather popular and had the leak backing him, but when he was shown in the trailer as not playable, they didn't bother to leave us hanging, they immediately made sure that his disconfirmation was stated in full. After that, I did get more positive, because we haven't gotten anything that was nearly as definitive as that. So if that's the case, maybe there is more to the situation that we're not seeing.

However, despite that notion, I can't say that it made every single doubt I had about him disappeared either. While the boss segment bit could've been misleading, and I've heard all of the arguments that have been made for that, he still was shown in a segment directly talking about boss characters related to the Yellow Devil, and when taken at face value, it does put him in a rough spot. Plus, this is the type of feature I could see Sakurai thinking this would hype up his fanbase, even if we don't agree, that doesn't mean he doesn't see it that way.

So in short, he's a character that I'd like to think has more to his situation, but I can't ignore all of my doubts about him. This past week has given me some positive for the character, but it's not quite enough just yet.

Want: 100%
He's still one of the characters I want to be playable, and for all of my doubts, I hope that they are proven unwarranted and he joins the cast.

Chibi Robo: Abstain

Sorry about the late reply again Groose, I wanted to get this in before the end.

 

[erico9001]

Ridley chance: 2%
Analysis of Ridley's appearance that supposedly supports him is sketchy at best. They say he is about bowser's size by looking at his shadow while he is an upright position. Since he is in an upright position, it makes the length of his body/neck/head appear smaller than it really would be. It's the same effect as shining a light over your head and measuring the length of your shadow to determine your height.

They also photoshop out his wings and took the photo when he's in a position that his tail is not shown by the shadow, since it's mostly upright. This gives him an even smaller appearance than he really has.

In smash bros there has been no signs of shadow distortion based on position near light source being implemented. It only appears that the shadow moves away based on the angle the light hits the character, but does not change in size if the person goes closer to it. So, as far as we can tell, Ridley's wings really do stretch pretty much the entire length of the stage.

Ridley want: 0%
I have no attachment to this character. I also think that his character would not fit in among the other smash bros characters. I mean, imagine Ridley with the squirrel suit item, lmao.

Chibi Robo chance: 10%
Chibi Robo want: 20%

 

[False Sense]

So, Groose, I know you and a lot of others are big fans of the Phoenix Wright franchise, yeah?

Well, in honor of the last time I plan on rating a character (Unless by some weird-*** reason we rate Ridley or K. Rool again) I’m gonna be going all out.

But just doing plain ol’ Phoenix Wright has been done. Ohoho, no, that wouldn’t leave enough of an impact!

Instead, I'm going to...

…

break you.

If by the end I have destroyed the Phoenix Wright fandom, then I have done my job!
Oh, and I'll be honest , I've never actually played an Ace Attorney game, so I have no idea what I'm doing!

Spoiler

The court is now in session for the probability of Ridley from Metroid being a playable character in Super Smash Bros for Wii U and 3DS.
Mr. Wright, how do y-

​

Y-you’re not Phoenix Wright!
​

​

No, I’m not. I’m Haruhi Suzumiya, your honor, and I’ll be taking the aforementioned attorney’s place today. See, ordinary “Rate Their Chances” posts involving Phoenix Wright are unoriginal and uninteresting. Though I assure you, your honor, I will provide a much stronger case than he ever has.

​

Umm-uh… Well… Okay…then…
​

​

I declare that Ridley is, beyond a shadow of a doubt, a playable character.
​

And… What say the…
​

​

Oh, of course, no Mr. Edgeworth either.​

I apologize for the sudden change and confusion, your honor. My name is Itsuki Koizumi, and I’ll be taking Mr. Miles Edgeworth’s place today. I proclaim that Ridley is, as was hinted at, a stage hazard on Pyrosphere.
​

​

…*sigh* I don’t feel like dealing with this today. You two can handle this without me, yes? Of course you can. Good day.

He… left… Are judges even allowed to do that?

​

Let’s not delve on that for now and just continue as usual. I’m sure we can still have a civil enough discussion. Why don’t you present your case first, Ms. Suzumiya?
​

​

Okay then... Ridley is, without a doubt, a playable character. Mr. Sakurai has merely been “hyping up” Ridley. It’s a logical conclusion, and is based off of three facts:
​

​

First, Mr. Sakurai always fully shows nonplayable characters and illuminates on their role. He has done this much more bluntly with some of the more popular characters such as Ashley, Waluigi, and Skull Kid.
​

Second, Nintendo, and Mr. Sakurai, do listen to fans. Even though it was used as the butt of a joke, Nintendo acknowledged the outcry for a localized Mother 3 and a new Star Fox game in their Digital Event at this year’s E3. Regardless of whether they go through with either, though they’ve gone through with one those things, it still shows that they are aware of what their fans want. Mr. Sakurai even said in the Smash Direct that he has “player expectations to fulfill” when introducing Lucario’s mega evolution.
​

And lastly, Ridley, whether positively, negatively, or neutrally, is one of the most talked about character with regards to Smash Bros.
Ridley Smash4 videos, whether they be Shokio's or whoever's, get many views for a reason. GameFAQs gets those tons a Ridley troll threads for a reason. The Ridley support thread is, by far, the largest character support thread on Smashboards for a reason.

​

Now, Koizumi, surely we can both agree on these three things, yes?
​

​

I suppose I can, at the very least, accept them with some degree of truth.
​

​

Good, then we arrive at what happened during the fateful moment in the Smash Direct.
​

Ridley’s shadow on Pyrosphere.
​

“Boss characters make appearances on other stages, not just this one.”
​

Or, perhaps better to present, the original un-translated version of what Mr. Sakurai said: “他にもボスキャラ系の仕掛けが登場.” Which roughly translates to “other boss character system gimmicks come up.”
​

“Oh, Ridley, stage hazard on Pyrosphere. Okay, see ya. I'm not sure why they didn't just show him and say his name, but oh well.” A conclusion came to by many. And it’s understandable to come to such a conclusion based on this alone.
​

​

But I’m not basing my case on just this! I have meaningful context which comes from the three facts I said before. When considering those three facts, it makes Mr. Sakurai’s course of action with Ridley seem a lot more suspicious! Why ambiguously “show” one of the most talked about characters in a non-playable role when he’s very aware so many people desire said character to be playable? Why prepare people for a kick in the groin when he could instead just do it immediately like he’s done with every other character?
​

Because it’s in order to “hype up” Ridley’s reveal as, in reality, a playable character and make it incredibly unexpected for most people. What better way to surprise people than with a character that most though was flat-out disconfirmed? He knows that people clamor on and on about Ridley, whether for or against. If Ridley isn’t playable, then he would have no reason to act out of his own disconfirming norm. The answer is that he wouldn’t. In one of his own columns Famitsu, Mr. Sakurai himself wrote that he does not like to create “needless speculation.” But if Ridley is actually playable, then that would mean the speculation his shadow nonsense ensued not “needless,” but actually serve as a form of “hype building.”

​

With all these things considered, there’s only one logical conclusion!
​

View attachment 19625

​

​

While I can see how such a conclusion is logical, it’s based on a very important assumption being made.
​

​

You are assuming Mr. Sakurai views these “boss character system gimmicks” as just as important as any other way in which a character is not playable. Mr. Sakurai first showed us the Yellow Devil in a rather vague way. Granted, it was clear he was not playable, but it was not clear exactly what purpose he served. Many speculated it would be a mere stage hazard, while others considered it a glimpse at the return of boss battles from Super Smash Bros. Brawl. We were only provided actual insight into how this “gimmick” will work through giving the Yellow Devil its very own section in the Super Smash Bros. Direct, and he spent a noticeable amount of time discussing exactly how the gimmick in question works. Such actions seem to convey the belief that what seem like merely glorified stage hazards to us are actually very important pieces of the game that are worth treating in a “hype building” way. In short, who is to say that Mr. Sakurai does or does not think that these “gimmicks” are worth “hyping up?” Who is to say that the speculation induced by “boss characters” is “needless” in Mr. Sakurai’s eyes?

​

If I assume Mr. Sakurai does see these “boss characters” as something worth causing a stir about, then I can also make the argument that it makes sense to only show the shadow. By not clearly showing anything regarding Ridley’s design, besides his tail briefly making it into the shot, or his exact method of attack, Mr. Sakurai could induce speculation regarding how Ridley as a “boss character” on Pyrosphere will function. How could we know if he views such speculation as “needless?” It would certainly make sense if he does not, and this goes into my own answer to the question regarding why Mr. Sakurai has not shown Ridley in any shape or form since the Smash Direct. In the case that Ridley is indeed a “boss character” on Pyrosphere, it would presumably be a Wii U exclusive. Leaving speculation regarding Smash Bros. for Wii U is important because it comes out after Smash Bros. for 3DS. As has been made clear, we’ll know the entire roster of playable characters before the Wii U version comes out due to it sharing its roster with the 3DS version. This is also why we probably have not seen anything regarding single player modes in the Wii U version; it is because Mr. Sakurai wants to keep as much speculation towards that version open so as to not let the “hype die down,” as one might say.

​

And all of this was based on my assumption which is the exact opposite of yours.
​

​

So, with my argument proposed, Ms. Suzumiya, I ask you this: Why is your assumption a safer one than my own?
​

​

Because it's based off more substantial analysis!
​

If what you assume is true, then it would mean that Mr. Sakurai doesn’t know what fans actually care about the most! It would mean that he is out of touch with his own fans. And if the changes to physics, online, and the inclusion of Mega Man, Little Mac, and Palutena are anything to go by, he certainly isn’t out of touch when developing these games.

​

He said it himself when he began discussing the playable characters in the Smash Direct:
​

“And now what you’ve all been waiting for: the fighters.”
​

It’s the characters that cause most of the mountains of speculatory discussion. It’s the characters that get the trailers. It's the characters that get sections on the official website. It’s the characters that seemingly get vague hints. Yellow Devil may have been showed in a somewhat vague way that didn’t quite make its role clear, but it was clear that it wasn’t a playable character. With Ridley it’s different. It’s possible to argue that Ridley is playable based on what we’ve seen and the context surrounding it. But that isn’t even what I’m talking about when I said “more substantial analysis.”
​

This is where we get into the analysis of what we’ve actually been given: the shadow.

​

The Ridley Support Thread has gone through tons of analysis regarding the shadow and has come up with very interesting findings of which I will show the most pertinent.
I’ll trust that the second post of the Ridley Support Thread, specifically the “SHADOW EVIDENCE” section, will provide the crux of the necessary analysis I am speaking of.

​

All Mr. Sakurai did by just showing the shadow was imply that there is something worth hiding in regards to Ridley. You’re right, he could just want to hide details of Ridley’s boss appearance and mannerisms, but if the shadow analysis tells me anything, it’s that Mr. Sakurai went out of his way to make a Ridley model that not only moves in a rather odd way when compared to all other bosses we’ve seen in Super Smash Bros., but is also of a seemingly playable size.

So, now, the question: why would Mr. Sakurai go out of his way to make a relatively small Ridley be a stage hazard on a rather large stage, and why would he make this boss’ mannerisms such that it seems this boss would not lend itself to being very well designed in terms of dealing with players?

It’s because Ridley isn’t actually a “boss character!”
​

​

A rather solid case, Ms. Suzumiya, but an immediate problem to both of us just occurred to me.
​

And that would be…?

With the judge gone… We aren’t able to get a ruling

…
​

I suppose we’ll just wait until the game comes out then.​

Okay, no more. You get the point! I’m also sure that that’s enough fandom-ruining for now.
Gods, I had to rip and resize all of those GIFs on my own. It was worth it though!

Groose, I give Ridley a 99% chance of being playable. I acknowledge the fact that the other side is not exactly unfounded. Far from it, but I think that my own stance is well-grounded as well! I have much confidence and, after being rather confident in Stage Hazardley for some months after the Smash Direct, am fully prepared in what I think to be the 1% chance that I’m completely wrong in analyzing Sakurai’s ways.

For my want score, I’ll quote a post I made from when we rated Ridley on another day.



Ridley was and is my most wanted character. Nothing has changed.

The only newcomer I will give my 100% Want is to the big, purple, commander of the space pirates, he who will not ever truly stay dead, the one and only Cunning God of Death, Ridley. Praise be unto him

…

I abstain from Chibi Robo.

…

And, just some last more general words.

While I haven’t necessarily posted a lot in this game in the past year, I’ve been with this game since before many of the more frequent participants even had accounts. It’ll be sad to see it go once character speculation dies down. (Though, I suppose it could move on to other kinds of Wii U speculation as well.)

Groose and Co., you’ve done an excellent job carrying (the artist formally known as) Super Smash Bros. Fan’s torch. I hope when Smash 5, err, 6, roles around we’ll be able to see this game's return. It’s been a fun ride, and I hope the next time is even better!

And I also hope that next time we’ll be rating the chance of Ridley, the veteran, returning for another installment.

Spoiler

Oh, right, how could a forget:

X5 Brash the Freakin’ Bear

That was an excellent analysis of Ridley's situation, I believe. You even presented both sides of the argument, and the whole Phoenix Wright reference made it quite entertaining to read. Good job.

Though isn't Phoenix usually on the left?

I take issue with the bolded statement. We never said Greninja was unlikely. We just never talked about him.

True. But perhaps we should have?

 

[Groose]

Chibi Robo
15.18% chance
44.61% want
Poor Chibi Robo got almost completely overshadowed by Ridley. It looks like he just couldn't match up to Ridley's enormous popularity, eh? Anyway, he's going to get shafted here, too, because I have some bigger scores to announce...

Ridley
58.56% chance
80.69% want
King K. Rool? Your crown, please. Ridley has returned to the role of Rate Their Chance's Most Wanted Newcomer after an absence of several months. Fortunately enough, he's considered to be likely again. What a big turnaround after his rather large fall back in April.

...Oh, dearie me. Ridley? I need that crown back, buddy. When Erico9001 gave Ridley a 0% want score, he knocked you down to just a tenth of a percent below the good King. Looks like you aren't our most wanted after all. Too bad. You were so close though... just like Shulk, you lost your chance because of a last second vote. Speaking of Shulk, you're two-hundreths of a percent behind him, too, O Third Most Wanted.

Today we're doing not are usual two things... but rather three! First of all, will there be DLC Newcomers that we have to pay for? Second, will Crash Bandicoot make it in to join the likes of Mega Man, Sonic, Pac-Man, and Mario? Third, what are the odds that content from Tropical Freeze makes it into the game? Please rate Purchasable DLC Newcomers, Crash Bandicoot, and Tropical Freeze Representation in chance and want.

Tomorrow should be interesting, to say the least. It's a Super Mario day, but with no Doctor Mario or Bowser Jr. or Toad anywhere in sight. Please predict how Paper Mario and Birdo will do.​

 

[Leafeon523]

Purchasable DLC Newcomers:

Chance: 30%
I see cross-compatibility being an issue, but it isn't outright impossible.
Want: 100%
I don't care if I have to start hacking of my limbs for them; I'll take as many smash characters as I can get.

Topical Cream representation:

Chance: 22%
I feel like we will get DKC returns representation instead. So 22% for freeze, 77% for returns, and 1% for neither.
Want: Abstain
I've yet to play Tropical Freeze, so I can't be sure.

Crash Bandicoot:

Chance/want: 0%
He's a playstation character, and one I don't like at all at that.

Predictions:
Paper Mario: 15%


Birdo: 2.5%
That also applies to the want score...

Nominating Frederick ATx5
EDIT: @ Groose I remember you said that you had something fun to nominate a couple of days back. Why didn't you nominate it?

 

[Camc10]

DLC
Want: 100%
Yes, Yes, Yes!
Chance: 50%
It's a toss up at this point, Sakurai may have said he has no plans for Dlc, but he said not at the moment.

Crash Bandicoot
Want:18%
Chance: 0.0000001
I didn't grow up with Crash but watching gameplay of Crash 1 and 2, he could work, but I'd rather have someone else.

Tropical Frezze: Abstain

Paper Mario:13%
Birdo: 8%

Daisy x5

 

[BluePikmin11]

Purchasable DLC Newcomers Chance: 15% I can see this happening, but I only see Smash 4's "Forbidden 7" happening as DLC, and they will most likely be semi-clones and veterans. I doubt we will get any unique ones unless Sakurai really wants exceed our expectations for the game post release.

Tropical Freeze Franchise Representation Chance: 65% The same rating I gave to Dixie Kong, only 10% less. We have been getting stage representation from the most recent games, which is a good sign that Tropical Freeze is getting the representation and promotion Nintendo is doing. We'll most likely get a DKCR stage for the 3DS (since the 3D version came out recently in 2013), there is still the open door that the Wii U version will get a TF stage, although we could also get a stage from the original DKC trilogy, but I'm not holding my breath for it.

Nominations:
x5 Playable Bosses.

 

[TitanTeaTime]

I hate how people have turned it from a rational debate into a meme.

THIS, 100 times over. Discussion used to be calm and agreeable...
...But everything changed when the Shokio attacked
Anyway, onto my ratings...

Purchasable DLC Newcomers:
Chance - Abstain
I don't think I'm in any position to vote for this. I have been continuously abhorrent about DLC and I'd just be giving a biased vote.
Want - 0%
Hmph.
I don't like it.
Rubs me the wrong way.
Especially the "purchasable" part.
Maybe it's because I'll be buying both versions of the game anyway, maybe it's because we'd have had a character withheld from us.
What I do know is that with the game being pretty much complete at this point (I would give a source but I can't find it), a month is still a good amount of time to sort out any bugs or problems. I dunno, it all just would feel wrong.

Crash Bandicoot:
Chance - Negative 100% (Use 0%)
If Sony couldn't get the license to use him in a Playstation mascot brawler, I do not see him getting into a Nintendo game.
Want - 100%
Grew up with the Crash games. This would be a dream come true. Shame it won't happen of course

Tropical Freeze Representation:
Chance - 100%
That is, if we're talking about content outside of characters. There's a trophy for almost everything. Except Roy. But still, something is getting in at the very least as a trophy
Want - 50%
meh

Birdo: 2.45%
Paper Mario: 21.22%

Dry Bowser Alt Costume x5

 

[The Light Music Club]

DLC:
Chance: 65% - I think with the success Fire Emblem had with it, it has a chance to happen with Smash.
Want: 85% - IF it's not as sucky as Fire Emblems. I was upset Micaiah didn't really look like Micaiah. (I hate Awakening anyway)

Crash:
Chance: 0%
Want: 0%

I don't like Crash, and Nintendo doesn't either. Why? Because he's Sony.

T. Freeze:
Chance: 82%
Want: 5% - The only Donkey Kong thing I want is King K.

Predictions
Paper Mario - 7%
Birdo - 2%

Nominations:
I think I'll start nominating a Micaiah AT soon.
Edit: I won extra noms

Idolm@ster (Namco) rep x 10
Micaiah AT x 5

 

[ShrekItRalph]

Purchasable DLC Newcomers:
Chance: 40%
Want: 90%
I want Dlc characters to be a thing as long as they don't cut out characters that were.finished for the retail release to sell as Dlc, but are extra characters that are added on afterwards. I still think chances are we don't though.

Topical Freeze representation:
Chance: 70%
Want: 70%
DKCR came out at the end of 2010. I doubt that Retro sat around for a year after that before deciding to make DCTF. The original launch date for TF was only a month after Pokemon X and Y, Sonic Lost World so I think it's got a good chance of being represented in some way.

Crash Bandicoot:
Chance 0%
Want: 0%
I love Crash Bandicoot, I grew up on his games, but I wouldn't feel right about him being in Smash Bros.

Nomination (Playable) Inkling x5

Birdo 4.01%
Paper Mario 24%

 

[Icedragonadam]

Purchasable DLC:

Chance:55% It was probably going to happen but I'm not so sure.
Want:50% Depends on the characters.

Tropical Freeze representation:

Chance:75% Most likely.
Want:50%

Crash Bandicoot

Chance:0%
Want:0% I could see him as a trophy but that's unlikely.

Prediction:

Birdo:8.76%

Paper Mario:19.87%

 

[CoolEric258]

DLC
Chance: 40%. The issue with this is that there are two games that will be updated, and for those who have both, it might anger some people, but for characters heavily requested that don't get in are able to get a chance, and some people should get a bone from time to time.
Want: 15%. I don't really get DLC, but I might buy something if it really, really, REALLY interests me.

Crash Bandicoot:
Chance: 0%. There's so many third-party characters already.
Want: 110%. As a Playstation kid, Crash was my jam. Crash Team Racing was the first game I've ever played, and I still believe it is the finest kart racer ever made! Crash Bash was fun, the trilogy was epic, and I was one of the few who enjoyed Crash of the Titans (Yeah, I said it!) If he was in the game, Day 1 purchase.

Tropical Freeze Representation
Chance: 75%. The game was planned for release around the time of X/Y (Prism Tower stage, Greninja), Sonic Lost World (Windy Hill stage), and almost every SSB DK stage was based off the previous game (64: Donkey Kong Country, Melee: Donkey Kong 64, Brawl: Donkey Kong Jungle Beat). Surely a trophy at the very least is likely
Want: 50%. Never played TF, but an ice stage could be fun.

 

[JaidynReiman]

Purchasable DLC
Want: 60%, I don't care much either way, but I slightly wouldn't mind it.
Chance: 75%, I'd say there's a very good chance for Paid DLC.

Crash Bandicoot
Want: 0%, nothing again the guy, but he's more of a Sony icon than anything else. I don't mind Crash by any means.
Chance: 0%, same reason. Having a few multi-plat games on Nintendo consoles doesn't justify him getting into Smash Bros. considering his long history with Sony.

Tropical Freeze Representation
Want: 50%, it doesn't bother me either way. We'll at least get Returns stuff for sure, anyway.
Chance: 70%, I'd say its quite likely. And no, I don't mean "just trophies." I mean an actual stage. I'd say its fairly likely we might get a Tropical Freeze stage, but anything more than that is iffy.


Nominations:
Brash the Friggin' Bear x5

Again, no real reason other than to just get this over with.

 

[Smasher 101]

The Extra Nominations post has been updated. Please tell me if I missed any characters.

I...will rate tomorrow.

 

[shrooby]

Though isn't Phoenix usually on the left?

Ordinary Phoenix Wright references don't interest Haruhi...?
I don't know, take it up with the animation studio!

It also further destroys the fandom by getting the reference incorrect!

 

[Strider_Bond00J]

DLC: Definitely Roy. Just give him the awesome costume he had in Awakening. If Roy's DLC...!
And I think Sakurai would do much better than what PMBR can do. (Honestly, I don't like PM at all. Thankfully, I won't get banned by the admins here like on Miiverse.)

No chance of Crash. Just Nope.avi

That's all from me for now.

 

[Opossum]

Crash:
Chance: 0%
Want: 100%
I like Crash, as long as it's old Crash.

Purchasable DLC Newcomers: 80%
Want: 90%

Nominating Brash the Bear x5

 

[pupNapoleon]

Thread name needs to be changed; I came in here ready to vote on what no longer is

Ridley at 88!

 

[Groose]

Thread name needs to be changed; I came in here ready to vote on what no longer is

Ridley at 88!

Fixed. Going back to sleep now.

 

[Deleted member]

This long title has been added to the Directory.

I will rate tomorrow. It's getting awfully late.

Honestly, this may be one of the few major characters we don't share a common opinion on. Just noting that down.

Heh. Well, it's impossible for us to agree on everything. I have nothing against Ridley, but I'm a bit tired of hearing him and his speculation. I guess you say that I have Ridley fatigue.

 

[Hippopotasauce]

DLC Newcomers Likelihood: 12%
Want: 50%

Crash Bandicoot Likelihood: 0%
Want: 20%

Tropical Freeze Representation Likelihood: 40%
Want: 80%

Paper Mario: 12%
Birdo: 1.85%

Karate Joe x5

 

[Deleted member]

Crash:
Chance - 0%: No way. I would be shocked if he got in, but you never know; Snake is primarily considered a PlayStation character too...
Want - Abstain: I have no opinion, because I have never played any of his games.

Purchasable DLC Newcomers:
Chance - 77%: I think this is pretty likely. If there are DLC characters, you will probably have to pay for them. I think that DLC characters in general are more likely to be veterans that either weren't finished in time, or weren't main roster for whatever reason, but newcomers are not impossible.
Want - 50%: I'm torn. More characters is always a good thing, however, there is one thing that will bother me to no end; I will be paying money just to learn a match up. Say a character is DLC, and I don't really care about them. I'd pay money just to learn how to fight against them. I don't like that. If a character I like is DLC, this concern doesn't exist. Now, if Nintendo followed the Skullgirls model for DLC, (free for a limited time after release, then you have to pay if you didn't download) then this score would be a lot higher. Unfortunately though, we're not rating the chances of the Skullgirls model for DLC.

Tropical Freeze Representation:
Chance - 100%: Basically guaranteed to have at least a trophy referencing the game.
Want - Why does this matter?: The more games are represented, the better. Having not played this game (though I probably should as a fan of platformers) I don't care either way.


Nominations:
Lucas (The Wizard) X5

 

[Deleted member]

Purchasable DLC newcomers

Chance: 50% - Can go either way.
Want: 40% - I like more characters to be added but I can see that it may be bothersome paying dosh just to learn a character & keep him/her in your roster.

Crash

Chance: 0% - Not even Sony cares about him, he wasn't even in Playstation All-Stars Battle Royale!!!
Want: 0% - Liked his games but would rather not have him in Smash.

Tropical Freeze representation

Abstain

Nomination: Lucas (The Wizard) x5

Gotta play with power

 

[Oracle_Summon]

Purchasable DLC Newcomers

Chance: 2%

I recall Sakurai saying that they were not planning on doing anything with DLC.

Want: 0%

I don't like spending money for Things.

Crash Bandicoot

Chance: 0%

He has no chance whatsoever. He has been labeled as a Playstation Mascot and is dead to them. If Sony is not bothering to put him on PSABR why should Nintendo bother to put him in SSB4? His inclusion would make absolutely no sense.

Want: 0%

Super Smash Brothers is not a club that every famous video game character gets to get in. Neither should enemies of Nintendo be able to get in (Sonic is no longer an enemy) that are still solely working for the enemy. I liked Crash Bandicoot's games on the original Playstation, but he does not belong in Super Smash Brothers. That honor belongs to: Sonic, Megaman and Pacman (And possibly Snake whenever he shows up).

Tropical Freeze Representation

Chance: 85%

The chances are pretty good, a game that was recent and helps marketing for some of Nintendo's games.

Want: 90%

I have always liked the Donkey Kong Country series, especially the Returns series, and having more stages to show off those games would be very awesome. Plus the amazing music? Sign me up!

 

[Deleted member]

Paid DLC Newcomer$

Chance: 80%

Want: 50%


Tropical Freeze Representation

Chance: 5%

Want: 50%


Crash Bandicoot

Chance: 0%

-- Like Spyro, Crash is synonymous with PlayStation. The "he made more appearances on Nintendo platforms" argument isn't even valid in this situation...

+ ...though those appearances are plenty for a series of its size.

Spoiler

PlayStation

1. Crash Bandicoot (PS1, PSN)
2. Crash Bandicoot 2: Cortex Strikes Back (PS1, PSN)
3. Crash Bandicoot: Warped (PS1, PSN)
4. CTR: Crash Team Racing (PS1, PSN)
5. Crash Bash (PS1, PSN (Japan only))
6. Crash Bandicoot: The Wrath of Cortex (PS2)
7. Crash Nitro Kart (PS2)
8. Crash TwinSanity (PS2)
9. Crash Tag Team Racing (PS2, PSP)
10. Crash of the Titans (PS2, PSP)
11. Crash: Mind over Mutant (PS2, PSP)

Nintendo

1. Crash Bandicoot: The Wrath of Cortex (GC)
2. Crash Bandicoot: The Huge Adventure/XS (GBA)
3. Crash Bandicoot 2: N-Tranced (GBA)
4. Crash Nitro Kart (GC, GBA)
5. Crash Bandicoot Purple/Fusion (GBA)
6. Crash Tag Team Racing (GC) - Crash TwinSanity was never ported to GameCube.
7. Crash Boom Bang (DS)
8. Crash of the Titans (Wii, GBA, DS)
9. Crash: Mind over Mutant (Wii, DS)

+ Unlike Spyro, Crash was very popular in Japan (Sakurai may or may not be a fan) and all of his games were released there...

-- ...except Crash of the Titans, Mind over Mutant, and the few mobile spin-offs that succeeded them. What happened?

-- Just like with Spyro, Sony/Superbot couldn't pay Activision to use Crash in PlayStation All-Stars Battle Royale...

+ ...but unlike All-Stars, Smash 4 isn't a low budget game.

THE CHANCE KILLER: The Crash Bandicoot franchise is D-E-A-D. His last game was released in 2010, and that was a kart racing spin-off on iOS. He hasn't appeared on a Nintendo platform, or any home console or handheld for that matter, since 2008. You can argue that Mega Man is dead too, but he didn't fade into obscurity like Crash did. At least Spyro is still somewhat relevant, being featured in the Skylanders series.

I present to you many death animations for a dead character who has clearly been beaten to death:

Back on topic:

Want: 80%

I've been a fan of Crash since the PS1 era and I want him in, but I would rather play as him in a possible, but unlikely PlayStation All-Stars 2.

 

[Sid-cada]

Buyable DLC Newcomers

Chance - 1.5% - While I can see DLC newcomers as a mild possibility, purchasable seems a bit too much of a money-grab. I'd expect them to actually be free.

Want - 30% - While I want new characters, having to purchase them is a bit much for me.


Crash Bandicoot

...I'm just going to say double zeros here. I'm not sure how much explanation is necessary here.


Tropical Freeze Representation

Chance - 25% - Maybe, but I think it might be a bit late for it to happen.

Want - 50% - Eh. Don't care one way or the other. Unless it's a Shadow Stage, because those are awesome.


Nominations
Masked Dedede Final Smash X10
"In The Space Pirate Ship" X5

 

[Delzethin]

A three-fer? Okay, I need to keep this shorter. For real this time. >_>
Purchasable DLC Newcomers
Chance: 50%

This got complicated as of two weeks ago (has Robin really been confirmed that long already?). The second Gematsu leak claimed they were seriously considering character DLC...but now the whole second part is in question. We're left with just the answers from Sakurai himself...which basically said "jury's out for now; we want to focus on making a complete game first".

But with how Nintendo's been experimenting with DLC lately...I could see character DLC happening. The question is whether it'd be newcomer DLC, touched up veterans, or easy-to-make clones. Clones are pretty unlikely, since who would shell out money for a character who was at least a half-copy of one already on the roster? The real question is whether we'd get newcomers or veterans.

...And I have a sneaking suspicion that they might get interested in some characters who only became relevant during SSB4's development.

Want: 100%

Of course I want to see more newcomers! It'd be a chance for anyone who didn't quite make the cut initially, and it'd set off all the discussion and speculation and interesting stuff that fuels the hype machine. It'd also be a chance for them to highlight recent releases. Sceptile for ORAS? Captain Toad for his new game? A Star Fox newcomer? Could something from Splatoon get in this way?

I don't even see a reason to be worried about price yet. Nintendo's been pretty reasonable with DLC prices overall, to where we could see something as cheap as $2.50 a character.

Crash Bandicoot
Chance:
-Main Roster: 0.5%
-As DLC: 0.5%

A character heavily associated with Sony, even after venturing out into third party territory. Has Crash even had any notable games lately, much less ones on a Nintendo system? He seems all but impossible at this point, and he'd likely stick out like a sore thumb among Nintendo's and gaming's best and brightest.

Want: Abstain

I haven't played any of his games.

Content from Donkey Kong Country: Tropical Freeze
Chance: 90%

The only thing that could possibly hinder this is how both games were in development together for some time. However, this does not seem like another Super Mario Galaxy & Brawl situation. Brawl was originally planned to be released less than a month after SMG before it was delayed, whereas there's a gap of over half a year between Tropical Freeze's release and the planned (Japanese) release date of SSB4's 3DS version. There's plenty of time to coordinate some content.

Want: 100%

It's an incredible game, and we need to see something from it in Smash. Maybe the Wii U version's so-far-unseen Donkey Kong stage is based on it, complete with some of its soundtrack...
Predictions
Paper Mario: 11.24%
Birdo: 1.76%

Nominations
Stage Music Not Limited By Franchise x5

And a quick message: Can we not make so many joke nominations? We have a month and a half left before the Japanese release. That time is better spent doing real speculation on the games than getting a quick laugh out of pushing the likes of Lucas from The Wizard to the top of the list, you know?

 

[Kalimdori]

Purchaseable DLC: Chance: 65%
I think it will happen. Smash Bros is Nintendo's saving grace for the Wii U, they will try to get everything they can out of it.

Want: 50%
Honestly depends on what the DLC is.

Crash Bandicoot: Double Zeroes
Dead Playstation mascot, never liked him.

Tropical Freeze Represenation: Chance: 80%
Technically we already have this, as the Cranky Kong trophy we saw is his Tropical Freeze design. There is really no reason to think we won't get a stage (or Dixie)
Want: 75%
Can't think of a reason why not. I just don't really care about it either, depends on what it is.

Nominations: Rayman Rerate x5

Predictions:
Birdo: 4.58%
Paper Mario: 12.43%

 

[NintenRob]

DLC Newcomers:
Chance: 13% Sakurai said he doesn't have DLC planned and honestly considering how perfect stuff has been so far, if there is DLC I think it will be free.
Want: 2% I don't like having to buy characters

Crash Bandicoot:
Both: 0%
LOL

Tropical Freeze content
Chance: 5% I think its to soon and we haven't even seen any 3D World content and we didn't get and Galaxy stuff in Brawl.
Want: 75% I've heard good things, but 25% is taken because of Dixie and a fairly lame looking

Spoiler

final boss

Nominate Parabo & Satebo x2 (Am I doing it right?)

 

[a Link to the Forums]

Crash Bandicoot:
Chance: 0%
Same as Commander Shepheard. Not a Nintendo character and has never been.
Want: 0%
I don't mean to say I don't like him but he's a Sony character.


Purchaseable DLC newcomers:
Chance: abstain
Hmmm... I don't know. Like, at all. I can see it happening if people ask for it enough but at the same time I can see it not happening.
Want: 0%
Don't get me wrong. I'd take them but I don't want to pay for them. Selfish? Maybe.


Tropical Freeze representation:
Chance: 80%
It wouldn't be too hard to do. A trophy at the very least for the Snowmads (they were even trophies in Tropical Freeze) isn't asking for much. Sure, all DK representation right now is of the classics or Returns but then again, it's not actually that much. I mean seriously, what HAVE they revealed for DK. It's very little for DK standards. I think they are holding out for something big.

But then we have the problem that TF came out this year. Well, considering TF came less than a month after X and Y which is getting PLENTY of representation, I don't think it's a stretch to say that TF can get at least some representation.

Want: 100%
Definetly. I want Smash to have some recognition for TF whether it be by trophy/music(Oh god that music )/stage/fighter(Dixie)/whatever.


Predictions:
Paper Mario - 0.53%
Birdo - 0.12%

I'll do nominations later. I still need to think of something.

 

[erico9001]

...Oh, dearie me. Ridley? I need that crown back, buddy. When Erico9001 gave Ridley a 0% want score, he knocked you down to just a tenth of a percent below the good King. Looks like you aren't our most wanted after all. Too bad. You were so close though... just like Shulk, you lost your chance because of a last second vote. Speaking of Shulk, you're two-hundreths of a percent behind him, too, O Third Most Wanted.

​

​

Wow. I guess voting does matter .
It's amazing that these three have fallen so close together in want, nonetheless.

I'm putting
DLC chance at 40% and
DLC want at 50%.

Abstaining from other votes today.

 

[BKupa666]

Heh, first Shulk, now Ridley fail to capture the King's crown at the very last possible minute?

Purchasable DLC Newcomers:

Likelihood: 90%
I think Nintendo likes money, and will recognize its capability to easily make a whole lot of it here.

Want: Abstain
This score depends entirely on who the newcomers are.

Crash:

Likelihood: 0%

Want: 50%
Solely for the sake of getting content from his universe into the game.

Tropical Freeze Representation:

Likelihood: 25%
Tropical Freeze's settings are brilliantly unique, but none of them really stand out as iconic representative locales for stages, with the possible exception of Kongo Bongo Donkey Kong Island after it's been frozen. Beyond that, Snowmads aren't in Smash Run, and there isn't really a definitive Snowmad to include as a trophy, although maybe a few models could be ripped, so there's that. Returns was far and away the more major Retro DKC game, so I'm betting that the vast majority of Retro DKC content comes from it instead (hopefully in the form of a glorious Sunset Shore stage).

Want: 75%
As a general rule, the more DKC content, the better, although to be honest, I'd much rather see content from DKC2 first, considering how woefully ignored it has been in Smash thus far.

Nominate:

Brash the Friggin' Bear x5 (it's happening!)

 

[Cheezey Bites]

Downloadable *********: 40%
Nintendo is experimenting with DLC, but they'r also experimenting with NFC... the fact that Smash already had the latter makes me think they won't try to experiment with both in the same game, especially when they're fairly reliant on Smash shifting consoles, and especially when smash is the first Amiibo game, I think they'll focus on that first...

That said, it's not a conclusive no, it is a fighting game with plenty of precedent for this kind of thing, and DLC is money, so it's certainly possibly, but I'm erring on the side of unlikely.

Want: 70%
Depends on the quality, but getting more content seems like a thing that can only be good, right?


Crash: 0%
Want: 0%
Nope.


Banana Ice: 85%
I'm working on the same basis as my Fatal Frame concept from earlier, as being something you don't have to purposefully hunt for. I think we're getting a stage, and even if we don't we'll get some TF music for whatever Wii U DK stage there is. The game's been out plenty long enough now for them to include something given they've still got a few months before the Wii U version releases.

As for Trophies, I'd give than a 99%, because we already have trophies they could copy over and edit slightly. Heck, that might even work for an enemy in whatever adventure mode they have planned, though my breath for that.

Want: 100%
That game's amazing, and the people who picked up a Wii U for Mario Kart 8 should play it; if this helps people gain interest in picking it up I'm all for it!




Paper Mario: 11.1%
His chances are slim, but not exactly paper thin.

Birdo: 0.2%
I don't think anyone thinks this is likely, do they?



I've changed my mind on the nominations front, sorry Dragon Quest and Fatal Frame but we have already discussed you a fair bit; I'm gonna push another item:
Wii Fit Meter item*5

 

[FancysaurusRex]

DLC Newcomers Likelihood: 25%
Want: 50%

I'm pretty okay either way in this regard.

Crash Bandicoot Likelihood: 0%
Want: 0%

I love the series to death, but Crash belongs in PlayStation All-stars, not Smash.

Tropical Freeze Representation Likelihood: 50%
Want: 80%

It can go either way! No matter what tho, I want it.

x5 Ditto Pokeball