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[Burigu]

Black Shadow:
Chance: 0.01%

• Working on a theory that if he is an easy clone, he is more likely, don't really appeal to me or makes sense
• Lucina's inclusion make him more likely: NO
• Lucina being a lucky addition said by Sakurai himself make every theorised clon character more likely? NO
• Black Shadow is STILL a kind of unknown character, much of his back story come from the anime (I don't know if FZERO has a manga) which not so many people have the oportunity to watch.
• Decloning Ganondorf doesn't mean we need another clone to take his place.
• F Zero is that kind of series that don't really need more characters like Yoshi, both are fine as they are. (This coming from a big Yoshi's Island fan).
• F Zero has been dormant for so much time, so far newer games or active series are the ones who are getting newcomers.
• No new F Zero in the horizont at the moment

Want: 0%
Played original F Zero a little, played F Zero X more extensively, I don't see the appeal on him based on those games alone so I guess most of his charm comes from the anime, I am unaware if GX explain backstories in more detail.
If we are rating him as a posible clone, the more the merrier but the more unique the better. We don't even know if Ganondorf is getting decloned or not.
That said I have nothing against him, I just don't see him necessary.

Takamaru
Chance: 10%
I am still unsure why he is the "front runner" for a retro rep, his recent references might help but that is far from making him a solid choice, as I said before, Nintendo has a pool of retro characters waiting to by revived.
As a Captain Rainbow trophy: 50%

Want: 5%
I am going to say it, I don´t know much about him appart from his artwork and his appearance in Captain Rainbow which gameplay I watched, the samurai thematic might be cool and I might like Takamaru a lot but until that happens I am not interested on him. At the time of Melee I didn't know anything about Ice Climbers and now they are my 4 main, at the time of Brawl I didn't know anything about Pit, now he is one of my favorite characters and thanks to Brawl, Kid Icarus got another chance to shine, bringing as a result a cast of characters that I really love and one of my favorite games of all time, so who knows maybe the same could happen with Takamaru.

 

[Deleted member]

Takamaru

Chance: 45%

I would give him a lower chance rating, but Sakurai has surprised us in the past.

Want: 70%


Black Shadow

Chance: 20%

Want: 70%

If Sakurai could come up with a random, but memorable moveset for Captain Falcon, then I'm curious about what he would give Black Shadow.

 

[ChazzzyF]

Guys, I found the edit text options. Now I can look less boring.

Black Shadow:

Chance: 5%

At this point, it seems very unlikely we'll see a second F-Zero rep. We only just now got Captain Falcon, and if they were going to wait this long to reveal Falcon, they probably would have revealed Falcon and Black Shadow in one trailer together, rather than reveal Falcon with Robin and Lucina, and then give Black Shadow his own trailer. Nothing against Black Shadow, I bet he'd be a fun character, but it just seems too unlikely.

Want: 25%

There are simply people I want more. It's really nothing personal.

Takamaru:

Chance: 5%

Ah, Takamaru. I remember back when you were a really likely suggestion for a retro character. But at this point, it just seems unlikely for a two reasons.

1. I think the retro character area for this game has been filled rather nicely by Little Mac, (and to an extent, Mega Man and Pac Man).
2. A lot of the things that could make Takamaru feel unique seem to be taken by other characters. His shuriken has been taken by Greninja. Robin has thunder magic, as well as fire magic to cover the fireballs Takamaru has, unless they would act like Mario's fireballs, which are still drawing from other characters. Plus, the invisibility cloak item seems like it would work either like Greninja's side special or Meta Knight's down special. The only thing that keeps him unique is a different type of sword, which (in all honesty) may not even be that big of a difference at all.

Want: 50%

If any other new retro character (what an oxymoron) were to make it in, I'd want it to be Takamaru. But, like I said before, I don't really want another retro character.
I could go either way.

Thanks for helping me out with learning the system everyone. I think I'm ready to make a prediction.
…overrated…underrated…
Well, since I don't know you guys well enough to judge your opinions on what being "overrated" or "underrated" is, I guess I'll skip this one again.

 

[Burigu]

Whoops. Duplicate. My bad. Is there a way to delete this?

Report yourself to a mod, with the report option tell them it was a mistake, they are the only ones that can delate a post

 

[Deleted member]

Black Shadow:
Chance - 1%: Highly unlikely at this point. I don't see it happening, but I would love to be wrong about that.
Want - 90%: Sure. I enjoy playing F-Zero, and would honestly like to see another character reimagined in the same over the top fashion as Captain Falcon was.

Takamaru:
Chance - 15%: I don't think he's too likely at this point. I don't see more than 2 more characters at this point, and aside from those two, there are many others that could be playable before Takamaru.
Want - 50%: I'm torn. He could introduce a style of swordplay completely unlike any other in the game at this point. On the other hand, my preferred former Japan-only swordsman newcomer is Shulk. I don't see Takamaru and Shulk as competing in the slightest, but in a world where "too many swords" is a complaint, I feel the need to bring him up. I'd also rather have Chrom first in the realm of blue-haired swordsman. That moveset in the Chrom thread...

 

[Smasher 101]

Takamaru's chances: 50% - I still think this can go either way.
Want: 20% - There are other retros that I would prefer.

Black Shadow's chances: 15% - I still don't see F-Zero getting a new character, clone or otherwise.
Want: 85% - I'd like his inclusion.

Chibi-Robo prediction: 10.27%
Ridley prediction: 52.19%

 

[PK_Wonder]

Black Shadow -
Chance 15%?
I feel like Captain Falcon being revealed before release helps him at least a little. I wouldn't particularly be bothered if he is a clone of Captain Falcon/takes Ganondorf's moveset, because he is actually pretty cool looking, and Gdorf fans wouldn't feel alienated.

Takamaru -
Chance 20%
He has a lot going for him, but there are probably no more than five newcomer spaces left. They might all go to characters who are better known and more requested. The Nintendo Land role was a big boost for Takamaru, but he still fairly obscure and far from a lock. The whole "retro rep" cliche could have already been taken by spiritual retros like Pac-Man, Mega Man, and Little Mac, and until we see Ice Climbers, R.O.B., and Mr. G&W, he has an uphill battle.

predict:
Chibi-Robo - 10%
Ridley - 51%

 

[andimidna]

Takamaru
1. An emphasis on retros was planned

2. If the idea didn't make it, that could make it viable to be added as a clone later

3. Little Mac represents Punch Out Wii more than anything and is therefore not a retro newcomer, he's as retro as Palutena is. Not at all. They're both based around they're newest appearances in their design and moveset. Pac-Man could be considered a retro character,due to his moveset and design, but it's not like they can revamp his series as its already still getting new games and is 3rd party. We do not have 1 non-debatable retro.

4. Is no ordinary swordsman! Fully able to have a unique moveset despite what people say. Also, he doesn't use his sword that much in his games, a unique moveset for him would revolve around mainly projectiles including items and weapons.

5. Is also able to become a clone if they had wanted to add him as a full character but didn't have the time or something. It wouldn't do much justice to the series- but a Greninja semi clone is a viable choice. Switch our water for fire, switch out the water swords for his sword.

And he's the obvious retro due to all of his recent cameos, references, and the re-release.

He's not a ninja frog. He's not a generic blue-haired swordsman. I don't even know why Robin is now being brought up against him. Fire magic? Oh please, does that mean Mario and Zelda deconfirm him too?

The OP of his thread convinced me. Seriously, check it out.

Chance: 77%
Want: 99%

Black Shadow:
Chance: 12.5%
Does make some sense, however:
-Ganondorf might stay the same
-When characters changed up some moves in the past, there was not a replacement. Unique characters have been scrapped entirely without this treatment
-There are other options for CFalcon clones (Blaziken)
-replacing a clone is not necessary
-has almost no chance of getting in based off his own merits
Oh, and here's a good one:
-Why would Captain Falcon get revealed in Robin/Lucina's trailer if black shadow was going to have a trailer?!
All newcomers will have one, so the only hope for him is that appearing in the Robin trailer was decided before any sort of Clone stuff started OR a VILLAINS TRAILER!

I'd say he's like the 15th most likely character. Not in a great spot but certainly possible.

Want: 20%

Predictions
Chibi Robo: 9%
Ridley: 55%

 

[CoolEric258]

Black Shadow:
Chance: 5%
There's many things that go against him. Since F-Zero characters aren't necessarily fighters, Black Shadow could just be a slower, more powerful Cpt. Falcon. But Ganondorf already holds that title, and I have doubts Sakurai will change his moveset. All of the returning characters that have updates on them are just either variations and changes to a move, or a new move altogether. Nothing more, so Ganon will stay the same. And what's also against Black Shadow is that F-Zero's last game was over 10 years ago, and Miyamoto has stated he has no plans at all for another F-Zero game. Cpt. Falcon's in mainly for being in the O12 and being well-known in the Smash community.
Want: 15%
I'm not an F-Zero enthusiast, and I don't care about villain representation. But I like Ganondorf and if BS plays like him, I'd be cool with it. But if he's not in, I wouldn't care.

Takamaru
Chance: 30%
Many people have said that the retro character has been fulfilled with Little Mac, but seeing how he got a major release in 2009, I don't consider that anymore. Now what makes Taka special is that he has gotten plenty of references, in Captain Rainbow, Samurai Warriors, and Nintendo Land, showing that Nintendo does have interest in the series. But, the problem with that is also that his attacks seem similar already to Greninja and Robin. Or at least that's what's being said in this battle.
Want: 10%
I'm all for a samurai, and obscure characters are always fun, but another blue-haired swordsman isn't in my radar.

 

[Nimbostratus]

I'm a bit late on this one after having spent the day mourning BitF at the lake.

Black Shadow
Chance- 4%
Has the benefit of Goroh being deconfirmed. Has the serious concern of F-Zero being dead.
Want- 20%
I would be ok with a second F-Zero rep, but I'd rather it be Goroh. Black Shadow is too ridiculous looking for me. I guess he could take Ganondorf's moveset but... ehh.

Takamaru
Chance- 25%
Sakurai has definitely made some comments that go in his favor. I don't feel like we've really had our "retro" yet. No, I don't think Little Mac counts.
Want- 50%
On one hand, there are other characters I want more and could be more unique. On the other, I'd really like his series to get a modernized reboot, and a Smash appearance would not hurt.

 

[Icedragonadam]

Black Shadow:Chance 5% I just don't see it. He would add the villain count though.

Want:50%

Takamaru-45% He's a pretty good candidate for the residental unlockable retro.

Want:60% He's seems interresting.

 

[JaidynReiman]

Black Shadow:
Chance: 45%, I can see it happening. Ganondorf is the only clone in Smash history to not fit being a clone whatsoever, and if Sakurai is concerned with making a clone fully original alienates fans of the original moveset, he might give Ganondorf's old moveset to Captain Falcon. I don't see how Black Shadow not being announced lowers his chances, he'd probably be an unlockable character. The fact that F-Zero is the only O12 franchise not to have a second rep may help as well.
Want: 60%, he looks kinda cool and I think F-Zero should get a second rep, don't care that the franchise is dead. It has far more games than the Mother series, that's for sure.

Takamaru
Chance: 50%, I can see it going somewhere, and he's the most likely Retro character, but frankly I don't think we're getting a retro character right now. Greninja kinda already steals his thunder by throwing shurikens.
Want: 40%, I think he's ok. I don't see how he'd be original as other people say, though, because most of his projectiles are used by other characters, and his projectiles are the only thing he has to set him apart from other sword users. At least Shulk and Isaac have serious things going for them in the moveset department, and Isaac mostlikely won't only have a few sword-based attacks with the entire rest of his moveset being based on Psynergy.

Plus, I'd really just rather have Lip.

 

[andimidna]

but another blue-haired swordsman isn't in my radar.

This is what Takamaru looks like-

Spoiler

Seems like something you should know before rating, but ok.

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

Guys, I found the edit text options. Now I can look less boring.

Black Shadow:

Chance: 5%

At this point, it seems very unlikely we'll see a second F-Zero rep. We only just now got Captain Falcon, and if they were going to wait this long to reveal Falcon, they probably would have revealed Falcon and Black Shadow in one trailer together, rather than reveal Falcon with Robin and Lucina, and then give Black Shadow his own trailer. Nothing against Black Shadow, I bet he'd be a fun character, but it just seems too unlikely.

Want: 25%

There are simply people I want more. It's really nothing personal.

Takamaru:

Chance: 5%

Ah, Takamaru. I remember back when you were a really likely suggestion for a retro character. But at this point, it just seems unlikely for a two reasons.

1. I think the retro character area for this game has been filled rather nicely by Little Mac, (and to an extent, Mega Man and Pac Man).
2. A lot of the things that could make Takamaru feel unique seem to be taken by other characters. His shuriken has been taken by Greninja. Robin has thunder magic, as well as fire magic to cover the fireballs Takamaru has, unless they would act like Mario's fireballs, which are still drawing from other characters. Plus, the invisibility cloak item seems like it would work either like Greninja's side special or Meta Knight's down special. The only thing that keeps him unique is a different type of sword, which (in all honesty) may not even be that big of a difference at all.

Want: 50%

If any other new retro character (what an oxymoron) were to make it in, I'd want it to be Takamaru. But, like I said before, I don't really want another retro character.
I could go either way.

Thanks for helping me out with learning the system everyone. I think I'm ready to make a prediction.
…overrated…underrated…
Well, since I don't know you guys well enough to judge your opinions on what being "overrated" or "underrated" is, I guess I'll skip this one again.

Ok, how the hell did I miss this of all posts? As someone who's familiar with his game of origin, alloow me to cover all bases that are wrong with this post.

Firstly, the character himself never canonically used shirukens despite what Nintendo Land say. It was the ninjas themselves that used them while he had kunai (throwing knives) at his disposal. If that's not enough for you to consider that unique, there are a set of shogi pieces (Rook, Biship, and King) that would allow him to throw such weapons in various directions like three-way with arcs, all four directions at once, or three straight forward. That last part sounds like something that not a single character had introduced yet.

Secondly, the Fireballs themselves would work like Mario's or Robin's either way. It could potentially work like traditional will-o-wisps that could be four fireballs spinning around each other as a large tricky projectile that could even put the plumber's fireballs to shame. Like old Pokemon, it could also have a burning effect to it's victims where it could be temporary.

Thirdly, the cloak itself should function like it did in the original game it would be nothing like Dimensional Cape or Shadow Sneak. He could turn invisible for a good 5 seconds (with his body blurry a la Melee's Cloaking Device and have a darker shadow visible) and he's near invisible to the point of being unscathed by anyone's attacks. Also, he gets a slight buff in his attacks and his sword should be the only thing visible whenever he attacks with it (just like in the original game).

At times like this is why I'm glad that I'm even replaying the already anal ****** game and making a brand new Takamaru moveset that should prove all of his detractors wrong about him not having "muh uniqueness". -_-

 

[Delzethin]

Black Shadow
Chance:
-Main Roster: 2%
-As DLC: 5%

Why would he have special treatment again? He may be a villain, but what have we seen so far that says they'll shoehorn more bad guys in just because they're bad guys? F-Zero may only have one character, but Captain Falcon was only added in SSB64 to begin with because he could viably use some of the beta moves created before the game actually became Smash Bros (not that I'm complaining >_>). A second would be a massive stretch...unless Black Shadow were to be a Falcon clone.

...But how is that any more likely? We still don't know if Ganondorf will be decloned. Even if he were to be, it doesn't mean more Lucina-style bonus clones are inherently more likely, and even then...

Decloning Ganondorf doesn't mean we need another clone to take his place.

So he'd have to be a villain for the sake of more villains, a clone for the sake of a quick add, and get special treatment over other potential "bonus clones". I'd be really, really suprised if he was in.

Want: 0%

And I see no reason to support him when there are so many other characters I'd rather see.

Takamaru
Chance:
-Main Roster: 25%
-As DLC: Abstain

So, nowadays he seems to be the frontrunner for a retro newcomer. The question is, has that niche been filled already? I wouldn't call Little Mac retro after the Punch-Out remake...but so much of Mega Man's and Pac-Man's movesets reference games from the 80s that they might count as retro. With (as it seems) only a handful of newcomer spots left, Takamaru might find his niche taken already.

That said, Nintendo seems to have their eyes on him, between his appearance in Captain Rainbow and his minigame in Nintendo Land. We don't have a true samurai character yet, and he has enough different weapons in his game to where his moveset potential's actually pretty good. Maybe he got the nod because of that.

Want: 45%

A bunch of throwing weapons, temporary invisibility, a screen-clearing lightning attack as a FS...he could be really interesting. As long as his fighting style doesn't feel too similar to any of the other sword-users we already have. >_>

Predictions
Chibi-Robo: 16.74%
Ridley: 53.9%

 

[Cheezey Bites]

Black Shadow: 25%
Why have we still not seen Ganondorf?! I'm like 60% something's changed about him, and we'll see it in the pre-release direct... the problem is how much has changed, and if Black Shadow will take his old moveset or if it'll be left in the dust. As for a unique character... far far less likely unfortunately...

Want: 100%
I like Black Shadow, and I would love to play as him. I also quite like Ganondorf, and want his move set to be based on his in-game. Being able to do either would make me happy; both would be awesome!



Takamaru: 55%
We still don't have a retro, but the closer we get the less I feel we'll get one... this game is far more about marketing than the past games, but it would be odd having so little retro Nintendo content and so much for Namco, and to a lesser extent Megaman. It is still Sakurai though, and he did say he wants to bring more series back early in development, so I still think we'll see one.

Want: 100%
We still don't have a stealth character. I know people bring up Shadow Sneaka and Dimension cape, but they're teleport moves with attacks at the end... that's not how invisibility characters work... go look at PSASBR footage of Sly Cooper and tell me with a straight we have anything like that in Smash bros?! We don't, Takamaru would be unique on that alone, and then he has some amazing and unique projectile properties too. He'd be great!


Chibi-robo: 7.2%
Ridley: 82.1%

 

[JaidynReiman]

Black Shadow
Chance:
-Main Roster: 2%
-As DLC: 5%

Why would he have special treatment again? He may be a villain, but what have we seen so far that says they'll shoehorn more bad guys in just because they're bad guys? F-Zero may only have one character, but Captain Falcon was only added in SSB64 to begin with because he could viably use some of the beta moves created before the game actually became Smash Bros (not that I'm complaining >_>). A second would be a massive stretch...unless Black Shadow were to be a Falcon clone.

...But how is that any more likely? We still don't know if Ganondorf will be decloned. Even if he were to be, it doesn't mean more Lucina-style bonus clones are inherently more likely, and even then...

So he'd have to be a villain for the sake of more villains, a clone for the sake of a quick add, and get special treatment over other potential "bonus clones". I'd be really, really suprised if he was in.

Want: 0%

And I see no reason to support him when there are so many other characters I'd rather see.

Takamaru
Chance:
-Main Roster: 25%
-As DLC: Abstain

So, nowadays he seems to be the frontrunner for a retro newcomer. The question is, has that niche been filled already? I wouldn't call Little Mac retro after the Punch-Out remake...but so much of Mega Man's and Pac-Man's movesets reference games from the 80s that they might count as retro. With (as it seems) only a handful of newcomer spots left, Takamaru might find his niche taken already.

That said, Nintendo seems to have their eyes on him, between his appearance in Captain Rainbow and his minigame in Nintendo Land. We don't have a true samurai character yet, and he has enough different weapons in his game to where his moveset potential's actually pretty good. Maybe he got the nod because of that.

Want: 45%

A bunch of throwing weapons, temporary invisibility, a screen-clearing lightning attack as a FS...he could be really interesting. As long as his fighting style doesn't feel too similar to any of the other sword-users we already have. >_>

Predictions
Chibi-Robo: 16.74%
Ridley: 53.9%

Why does Mother have two reps when its only got three games? F-Zero has about 7 games and has been around since the first. And Black Shadow would really be more a Lucina than anything else. He'd get Ganondorf's old moveset with small modifications to make it fit him, so he wouldn't "replace" any other character. Basically, the reason people bring it up is because he'd be an easy character to represent an under represented series, and yes, F-Zero is under represented. Doesn't matter that the franchise hasn't had a game in ten years, the fact is that the franchise has enough games, enough history with Nintendo, and enough standing in Smash Bros. to get one new character, and especially when said one character is an easy clone.

 

[CoolEric258]

This is what Takamaru looks like-

Spoiler

Seems like something you should know before rating, but ok.

I thought he was blue-haired. At least that's what I saw in his Samurai Warriors and Captain Rainbow appearance. Whoops!

 

[JaidynReiman]

This is what Takamaru looks like-

Spoiler

Seems like something you should know before rating, but ok.

I thought he was blue-haired. At least that's what I saw in his Samurai Warriors and Captain Rainbow appearance. Whoops!

To be fair, Takamaru DOES have blue hair in several of his different more modern game incarnations, namely Captain Rainbow and Samurai Warriors 3... at least in the renders, anyway.

http://nintendo.wikia.com/wiki/Takamaru?file=Takamaru_SW3.png


If Takamaru can bring something new to the game, I'd be all for it, even if he had blue hair. The complaint about blue hair stems from Fire Emblem specifically. Most people didn't want three similar-looking blue-haired main Lord swordsman from Fire Emblem, because there was a lot more the series had to offer. Granted, we still got three blue-haired sword wielders in the end, but the third was at least a female.

Ok, how the hell did I miss this of all posts? As someone who's familiar with his game of origin, alloow me to cover all bases that are wrong with this post.

Firstly, the character himself never canonically used shirukens despite what Nintendo Land say. It was the ninjas themselves that used them while he had kunai (throwing knives) at his disposal. If that's not enough for you to consider that unique, there are a set of shogi pieces (Rook, Biship, and King) that would allow him to throw such weapons in various directions like three-way with arcs, all four directions at once, or three straight forward. That last part sounds like something that not a single character had introduced yet.

Secondly, the Fireballs themselves would work like Mario's or Robin's either way. It could potentially work like traditional will-o-wisps that could be four fireballs spinning around each other as a large tricky projectile that could even put the plumber's fireballs to shame. Like old Pokemon, it could also have a burning effect to it's victims where it could be temporary.

Thirdly, the cloak itself should function like it did in the original game it would be nothing like Dimensional Cape or Shadow Sneak. He could turn invisible for a good 5 seconds (with his body blurry a la Melee's Cloaking Device and have a darker shadow visible) and he's near invisible to the point of being unscathed by anyone's attacks. Also, he gets a slight buff in his attacks and his sword should be the only thing visible whenever he attacks with it (just like in the original game).

At times like this is why I'm glad that I'm even replaying the already anal ****** game and making a brand new Takamaru moveset that should prove all of his detractors wrong about him not having "muh uniqueness". -_-

Takamaru throwing Kunai vs. throwing Shurikens hardly amounts to anything. They are different, but barely. Sheik has Kunai in Hyrule Warriors, and for all we know, she'll be able to trade throwing Needles for Kunai as a custom moveset.

I have no idea what you mean by "Shogi Pieces," but that kind of mechanic--throwing weapons in various directions--probably can only work once. One of them would work, and the other directions would be custom movesets.

Fireballs doesn't sound much different at all, either. Cloak sounds cool, but iffy.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

Black Shadow
Chance: 0%
Oh, it sounds nice to trade movesets, but in reality, it won't happen.
Want: 0%

Takamaru:
Chance: 10%
There are too many scenarios for retroes.
It could be that Little Mac is the retro.
It could be that there's a retro character, but not Takamaru (because there absolutely is such thing as most likely retro)
The competition is huge and when Dixie appears she gets killed by K. Rool so Takamaru should be getting this.
It could also be we get no retro and that the quote of: "I like to bring back chars" just applies to Falcon for being brought back over and over again.

N'aaaww, I made my first rant so cute.

Want: 70%
I would've written 0% if R.O.B wasn't there with the Rock/Bishop/King thing.
EDIT: I have written 20% until @ Pacack and @ Cheezey Bites enlightened me on iado.
EDIT: I like swordsmen and nimble guys and I can't wait to dodge my own knife traps with timed air dodges.
This has gone from 0% "Muh overrated retro swordsmen" to supporter O.o
Now I think Takamaru is pretty dang easy to make a moveset from with knives, just ripped straight out of the game.
Sounds familliar.
TakamaruXGhirahim

Predictions:
Chibi Roborated: 5%
Overrated mostly means slaughtering in chance

Underridley'd: 60%
Supporters will copy paste the shadow analysis to this page and will give 90%+ and the rest either abstains or gives him the coin toss rating because they just don't know it anymore.

 

[andimidna]

To be fair, Takamaru DOES have blue hair in several of his different more modern game incarnations, namely Captain Rainbow and Samurai Warriors 3... at least in the renders, anyway.

http://nintendo.wikia.com/wiki/Takamaru?file=Takamaru_SW3.png


If Takamaru can bring something new to the game, I'd be all for it, even if he had blue hair. The complaint about blue hair stems from Fire Emblem specifically. Most people didn't want three similar-looking blue-haired main Lord swordsman from Fire Emblem, because there was a lot more the series had to offer. Granted, we still got three blue-haired sword wielders in the end, but the third was at least a female.



Takamaru throwing Kunai vs. throwing Shurikens hardly amounts to anything. They are different, but barely. Sheik has Kunai in Hyrule Warriors, and for all we know, she'll be able to trade throwing Needles for Kunai as a custom moveset.

I have no idea what you mean by "Shogi Pieces," but that kind of mechanic--throwing weapons in various directions--probably can only work once. One of them would work, and the other directions would be custom movesets.

Fireballs doesn't sound much different at all, either. Cloak sounds cool, but iffy.

Well a retro character would be based on their old design. I doubt the Samurai Warriors 3 and Captain Rainbow designs would even be alts.

Also, I don't think anybody except Palutena and Miis will have different weapons as custom moves. Sheik will Probably just have large slow needles and weak fast/ranged needles. And I doubt custom moves were made before the roster was decided, so that shouldn't affect anything anyways.

 

[YoshiandToad]

Black Shadow
Chance: 10%
F-Zero is traditionally ignored. It's dormant, and worse when F-Zero DOES get some love it's usually Samurai Goroh who receives the second biggest amount of attention after the Captain...and well; he's an assist trophy...again.

I don't know if it's occurred to them to switch Ganondorf's moveset onto this guy or not, but Black Shadow's biggest pro seems to be this + anime popularity in Japan.

Want: 75%
I'll admit; I was always keener on Goroh than Black Shadow; he just felt like the right kinda rival to me. However; I DO want more F-Zero love to be thrown out and would love it if some developer actually tried to revive this series, so any attention it can get outside memetic Falcon is fine in my books.

Only a 3/4's want because there are still individuals I'd far prefer.

Takamaru
Chance: 20%
I don't really see us getting a retro any time soon this round. Still; he is the frontrunner should we get one.

Want: 0%
I'm filling up on anime swordsmen...and there's at least two I'd prefer to see over this Samurai in Isaac and Shulk.

I also still believe him to be the most overrated individual on Smashboards; an obscure one shot character barely anyone in the west heard of prior to Nintendoland/Samurai Warriors 3 suddenly deemed an essential shoo-in Nintendo All Star.

Which he's not. I will take literally anyone over this generic samurai.

Anyone.

 

[ShrekItRalph]

Black Shadow
Chance: 5%
Want: 15%
Ehhh, the only reason I would want him is to take Ganondorfs moves away from him. I don't really think he is necessary otherwise.

Takamaru
Chance: 15%
Want: 0%
Maybe we will get a Retro rep, maybe we won't, and if we do it might not be Takamaru. But in a game already filled with sword users, I don't know what new moves he can bring to the table.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Takamaru Chance: 75% I would like to point out first in these ratings that counting Pac-Man and Megaman as retros is dumb as third parties have a relatively different criteria to fulfill, and the reason they have the retro designs and moves is because they are representing the best of their series (and company), the ones they are most known for. For Takamaru's chances, they remain the same as last time, I still have as much of a gut feeling of him as much as Shulk before the Gematsu leak just mostly because of the recent exposure this Nintendo franchise has been getting, first we get a European (AND NOW A U.S. RELEASE) release of Takamaru's game, then the Nintendoland minigame, and the cameos in Captain Rainbow and SW3. The more Nazo no Muramase Jou that gets released outside of Japan territory, the more I think he's getting in as a retro newcomer.

He'll probably be an unlockable character most likely due to being a Japan only character and will probably be revealed post-release, it's probably why you guys are getting more pessimistic about him, and I don't really see that as a reason why you should doubt him. I think his chances are still in the high end and I'll probably be shocked as Dixie Kong not making it as playable if he doesn't make it.

Chibi Robo: 13.12% I think SSF2 will probably have an influence on ratings.
Ridley: 56.76% Probably will get the high ratings, but I really doubting him as time goes by, and I still think he'll likely be kept as an "other boss appearance."

 

[Nonno Umby]

Black Shadow
Chance: 0%

• Working on a theory that if he is an easy clone, he is more likely, don't really appeal to me or makes sense
• Lucina's inclusion make him more likely: NO
• Lucina being a lucky addition said by Sakurai himself make every theorised clon character more likely? NO
• Black Shadow is STILL a kind of unknown character, much of his back story come from the anime (I don't know if FZERO has a manga) which not so many people have the oportunity to watch.
• Decloning Ganondorf doesn't mean we need another clone to take his place.
• F Zero is that kind of series that don't really need more characters like Yoshi, both are fine as they are. (This coming from a big Yoshi's Island fan).
• F Zero has been dormant for so much time, so far newer games or active series are the ones who are getting newcomers.
• No new F Zero in the horizont at the moment

He says all.

Want: 0%
No appeal for me, I usually prefer to hope for unique characters.

Takamaru
Chance: 30%
We still need a real retro character, but we can not have one this time.

Want: 70%
Could be an interesting character with an unique moveset.

 

[Xenigma]

Went back to see my old Black Shadow rating and found out it came with my first ever Chorus Men rating, pre-E3. In retrospect, boy, I wish I had stuck to that conviction.

Black Shadow - 5%
Perhaps the only newcomer candidate whose non-zero chances were completely unaffected by Gematsu's rise and subsequent fall. His inclusion relies on the de-cloning of Ganondorf, a decision that need not have been made upon deciding the roster or even early in development, so there's no particular reason to believe it would have leaked nor for it to be terribly likely in the first place. In fact the only news that could conceivably affect Shadow's chances so far is Lucina, and really all she does is confirm that it's plausible for a newcomer to be a clone or otherwise inherit a moveset. We still have no evidence to suggest Ganondorf would be decloned in the first place, aside perhaps from a late reveal that is easily explained away as his being a historically secret character, and we still have no solid evidence that a new F-Zero game is on the way, the only non-Smash news that could help Black Shadow's case. All in all he stays exactly where I thought he was back in April: plausible, but super unlikely.
Want - 75% - As I've said before, I'm a huge F-Zero fan, and I'm a fan of Ganondorf's clone moveset to boot. The only reason I don't want this more is that I don't really think F-Zero deserves a second character right now, not when the franchise has been dormant for over a decade. I'd happily take him (along with that new Ganondorf moveset), but I don't need him.

Takamaru - 10%
On the plus side, the fall of Gematsu totally helps Takamaru's chances! On the negative side, it doesn't really help that much, at least not in my opinion. While he now resumes being a notable candidate for a presumptive retro spot, I've had a bit of a mentality change in how I perceive who our retro might be. Remember, we've now got not one but two retro-styled third parties in Mega Man and Pac-Man, and while Little Mac is certainly themed after his Wii incarnation, as a character he's still far more iconic to the NES. I can understand those that think we still need a "real" retro, but with how unpredictable Sakurai has been over the course of SSB4 reveals, who are we to say that Mega Man, Pac-Man, and Little Mac aren't considered retros by him? Heck, who's to say he still thinks a retro is a necessary inclusion? I've long expressed my doubts about Takamaru considering he was a character I'd never even heard of prior to joining Smashboards, one who it seemed the community had latched onto for fitting the retro puzzle if you will (recent cameos/references, a Sakurai quote, moveset potential) while having few truly notable retro competitors. Now that the roster is really filling up and Takamaru remains MIA, I'm inclined to return to my initial thoughts on the character and say he's very unlikely.
Want - 50% - Doesn't terribly interest me, but he nevertheless has potential to impress.

 

[a Link to the Forums]

Uh, I delayed rating too long today and now I'm tired so I'll make this quick.

Black Shadow:
Chance: 7%
I franchise that wasn't that didn't sell well and hasn't been seen in a long time (do not know the exact amount) no doubt reduces his chances. Plus, the F-Zero probably isn't going to get another rep.
Want: 0%
I'm good with the Falcon Punch right now.

Takamaru:
Chance: 25%
One of the best candidates for a retro rep though that could have been filled by Little Mac.
Want: 25%
He looks somewhat cool but I'm not a fan of the franchise.

Not doing predictions

 

[FalKoopa]

I am busy, so I'll keep my ratings short.

Black Shadow: 5%
Want: 30%

Takamaru: 30%
Want: 35%

 

[jaytalks]

Black Shadow: 0%
His series is dormant, and he's not even that memorable in it. He is in no way helped by the Lucina reveal. Sakurai isnt fishing for clone or semiclones.

Want: 0%
Always seemed really bland to me.

Takamaru: 25%
His japan only status really hurts him, but he does seem like the most viable retro character. But I dont think Sakurai will go in this direction for a retro character. If he is in the game, we won't see him until he is unlocked within the game.
Want: 0%
He's not a retro character I have any attachment to. And I have an attachment to many others.

 

[Sid-cada]

Black Shadow

Chance - 0.25% - Well, he has a chance as a clone... anything else going for him?

Want - 10% - Five bucks says that if he gets in Gannondorf is still as cloney as he was before.


Takamaru

Chance - 10% - The more I think of it, the more I think his role may have been filled by the likes of Pac-Man and Little Mac.

Want - 70% - Hey, he could be cool. Who knows what they could accomplish?

 

[Pacack]

I have no idea why there are so many misconceptions about Takamaru.

1. He is a primarily projectile-based fighter in his game. He only uses his sword when he's literally right next to the opponents.
2. He canonically has black hair. Blue would only be an alt referencing his sprite.
3. For the love of all things holy, Takamaru does not use Shuriken anywhere but Nintendoland.
4. When he actually does use his sword, he uses Iaido, which is a Japanese sword style that includes unsheathing the sword, striking the opponent, and resheathing it in one swift motion. It is as different from western swordplay as kung fu is from boxing.

This has been a PSA from your friendly neighborhood Pacack.

 

[GunGunW]

Black Shadow:
Chance- 5%
Want- 80%

Takamaru:
Chance- 25%
Want- 0%

 

[Jason the Yoshi]

Black Shadow
Chance: 0%
I feel as if a second F-Zero rep would've been Samurai Goroh, who has already been referred to as an assist trophy. Don't get me wrong, I do believe the F-Zero franchise deserves multiple reps, but at this point, I doubt it. No offense
Want: 95%
Captain Falcon is just too cool to come alone. (And no, I am not mistaking Captain Falcon for Sonic, nice try!)

Takamaru
Chance: Eh, I dunno, maybe 65%
We have had his franchise represented in Nintendo Land, but idk what came first, development for Nintendo Land or development for Smash 4.
Want: 90%
He'd be a cool edition.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

4. When he actually does use his sword, he uses Iaido, which is a Japanese sword style that includes unsheathing the sword, striking the opponent, and resheathing it in one swift motion. It is as different from western swordplay as kung fu is from boxing.

All well and good, but what is the non-visual difference between them?

EDIT: I'll take this to the Takamaru thread.

 

[Oracle_Summon]

Black Shadow
Chance: 11%

I don't think Black Shadow's chances are going to be all that great. He could have been in Super Smash Brothers Brawl with Ganondorf's moveset. The moveset that Ganondorf had would have been perfect for him, but alas he was not given that moveset.

Want: 45%

My want for him is low, not because I hate the character, but because I felt that he was always the one that should have had Ganondorf's moveset. I know we should base the character by themselves, but Ganondorf should get his own moveset and Back Shadow should take Ganondorf's old one.

Takamaru
Chance: 24%

My chances are low because, besides a song and Sticker (maybe trophy) Takamaru got no other representation; although, this could have been due to Takamaru's lack of exposure to the West, which is a big problem in his chances.

Want: 75%

A Nintendo Samurai with a unique and complete moveset, plus Japanese authentic stages? Sign me up!!! As you could guess I really like Samurai characters and Takamaru's moveset would be original compared to the rest of the cast, plus his stages would represent the Japanese Culture Esque stages in Super Smash Brothers.

 

[Pacack]

All well and good, but what is the non-visual difference between them?

Takamaru's attacks would likely be strong and swift with relatively short range (katanas are noticeably shorter than longswords), making them moves that are only useful when the opponent is right on top of you.

I imagine they'd be almost exclusively smash attacks, with the majority of his other moves being projectiles.

There are other ways to go about it, but that's how I'd do it.

 

[Cheezey Bites]

All well and good, but what is the non-visual difference between them?

Iaido promotes single, swift strikes. The Katana promotes slicing actions rather than hacking motions due to it's single edge and curved blade.

In 2d fighting game mechanics Iaido would for the most part be more like a punch with the blade only reaching a shorter distance ahead of the wielder, often angled to slice more easily through the flesh. The reach will thus be shorter, but with a continuous slice (possibly prolonged hits and damage) towards the centre of the blade. The basic horizontal slice would come out first as a punch as the blade points back towards Takamaru only turning into a slashing hitbox as he extends the sword a few frame in. Also almost all of his hit boxes will originate from the centre of his body rather than from in front or above as with Marth or Ike.

The Slashing should cause higher damage with relatively low knock back as well as it slices through the opponent rather than knocking them away.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

Strong, but short range, and no stabs or "tipper slices"

That's pretty good.

 

[Cheezey Bites]

One more thing that I've just noticed:

Notice above that the sword trails start away from the body and move back in, this could also transfer to knock-back directions. Take this second animation and compare to marth's mildly simiilar u-tilt by hitbox, but notice the different direction of the motion; in marth's it pushes the target at 90 degrees to travel, which starts as upwards only hitting downwards at the very end of the hitbox. Using the animation shown above the attack would launch someone through the hitbox, thus meaning about 45 degrees down and behind the user from start to finish.

Imagine then the combo potential of such an attack. U-tilt into pivot grab anyone?

 

[Mega Hawlucha]

Black Shadow: 0.5%
Honestly, I have a feeling Ganondorf will recieve the same treatment as Pit, his moveset will remian largely the same but with different Specials and a few slightly changed Tilts and Smashes. With that said, I do see Ganondorf also retaining Captain Falcon's moveset, but as custom moves. The animations already exist within Cpt. Falcon and unlike Black Shadow, Ganondorf is easier to shoe-horn the moves into, as they don't have to get a new voice actor and don't have to create a new model and new moves/taunts, instead working with an existing skeleton.

Also, I think all of the newcomers have been from active franchises that have had a game since the last Brawl, with exceptions for third parties. F-Zero has sadly been a dormant franchise (seriously, some one get on that)

Finally, the only clones I can see having any chance at this point are the Melee Clones, Daisy and Dark Pit. Every other clone character just feels very unlikely for me. Still allowing for the very slim possibility however that Ganondorf is completely decloned and Sakurai wants to bring back his moveset.

Want: 10%
I've always felt this should have been the character to have Ganondorf's moveset originally, so my want mainly comes from that. But also, any character with Cpt. Falcon levels of flair are welcome in my eyes.

Takamaru: Abstaining, I know little to nothing about this guy