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Rate Red's Marth!

elvenarrow3000

Smash Master
Joined
Jul 22, 2007
Messages
3,308
Why not record some serious matches? It's hard to critique a player when any mistakes they make could be attributed to be "it's a friendly".
 

Red the Ghost

Smash Ace
Joined
Jun 17, 2008
Messages
670
Location
NC
Oh no, I just meant obviously stupid stuff, like the flubbed wavelands. Well, basically only that.
Otherwise, I took the matches seriously enough.
 

Sybawave

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 29, 2008
Messages
728
Location
Friendswood, Texas
ROFL Elven XD

"Play seriously..."
"I...was...playing seriously T_T"

Sounds like something Simon from AI would say lol

True work on your technical skill and AC Nairs aren't as useful as you think lol just practice WaveDashing, JC Grabs, L-Canceling...all the good basic things lol then after you do that get more vids
 

Red the Ghost

Smash Ace
Joined
Jun 17, 2008
Messages
670
Location
NC
;-;
Did I mess up that much?
I know how to JC grab, I just forget to do it.
I don't know why I screwed up any shffls. >.<

This is stuff I'm pretty sure I mastered 7 months ago. >.>;
 

Red the Ghost

Smash Ace
Joined
Jun 17, 2008
Messages
670
Location
NC
Haha, it really does.

Gah. It is second nature, I just seem to mess up occasionally. I don't hit L hard enough or something. [/johns]
I'll work on it. ^_^;

@ Sybawave: There are more vids, just look at the other vids posted by the same guy.
 

Sybawave

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 29, 2008
Messages
728
Location
Friendswood, Texas
That's true lol

But when you are edgeguarding...don't go off the stage just yet...learn the things that you can do to eg while on the stage (on as in not over the side) so like SHFFL Dair them or Ftilt/Dtilt or something like that.

Then when you are comfortable with that go ahead and try to edgeguard him off the stage. Just make sure you know you're recovery range or you die.

Lol it doesn't matter if you know how or not. JC grabs should be just like L-canceling with Marth...always do it

SHFFL Nairs are more useful...there aren't a lot of things you can use an AC Nair for
 

KikoMePlease

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Sep 16, 2008
Messages
376
Location
Arcadia, CA &lt;3 (626)
Auto Canceled nairs and SHFFLed nairs are the same thing, except AC nairs are 4 frames faster. Also when you wavedash to edgeguard, fastfall right when you're off the actual stage, it's much faster.
 

Red the Ghost

Smash Ace
Joined
Jun 17, 2008
Messages
670
Location
NC
I don't try to use AC nair, I just mess up the SHFFL with nairs. >.<

Yeah, I used to always JC grab, but I think I forgot when I started playing Smash 64 again. xD
I'm better at edgeguarding in that game, too.

Anyway, thanks for the help you two.
 

Sybawave

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 29, 2008
Messages
728
Location
Friendswood, Texas
LOL Ok one thing about the WD to edge trick...you have to hold diagonal down toward the stage lol otherwise you go right off and die

lol I'm not sure about what else to tell you XD fight some really good people and better advice may come up lol that Falco isn't laser happy enough >_<

I posted my response on the video >_< Idky I keep doing this lol
 

Red the Ghost

Smash Ace
Joined
Jun 17, 2008
Messages
670
Location
NC
I do use c stick for aerials. X_X

I think my tech skill failed for lack of playing for a month or so (johns I know). I know I never used to do this, though.
I didn't even notice it when I watched the videos... or not as much, anyway.
It really sucks. I feel like I just started Smash again. ;-;
 

elvenarrow3000

Smash Master
Joined
Jul 22, 2007
Messages
3,308
I didn't mean to be a jerk, I hadn't watched the videos before I posted. I meant some people post friendlies and when people point out mistakes, they're like... "OMFG ITS A FRIENDLY BACK OFF ME"

Okay, I'm watching the match against Link.

When you start out, I would go straight for the main stage level. If you really want to try to hit Link, you could shorthop a uair or run off with a uair in case he falls right through. Actually, you can hold down on some levels and you'll spawn and fall immediately through the platform. It's sweet. Anyway, you want to do this because between bombs and uair, Link can do some nasty things to you when you're above him, and being on a platform against him doesn't really afford you any advantage. Better to go to bottom level so that you can control the maximum amount of the stage at any given point in time.

Don't recover high against Link. If you recover low, there's not a whole lot he can do. If you recover high, he can Spin Attack you and even if you trade hits, you're probably going to die. He could also nair you or something, which is equally bad.

You can very rarely utilt people more than two or three times. Watch carefully. If it looks like they're going to break out of the utilt, switch to fair or grab so you don't whiff a utilt, as it would break your combo and give your opponent and opening to punish.

Okay, at 0:28 you avoided an aerial Spin Attack from Link. That puts him in a helpless state and you at the advantage. You don't want to spike him down because then he'll land and recover before you do. Drop with a fair or something instead to combo.

Don't stay on platforms. Run off or drop through and grab the edge. Also, work on being able to do whatever it is you need to do whenever you need to do it. Jump cancel grabs, shffls, etc.

Uh? Your edgeguarding is pretty weird. Counter, dtilt, fsmash, dair, bair and fair are pretty much all you need. Keep it simple.

Sometimes it's a good idea to just run up and fsmash or reverse Dolphin Slash. Grabs only get you so far in terms of punishment.

When you're playing against a projectile character, you want to be close, not far away. Projectiles generally aren't that fast in coming out, so if you're close by, it's going to be much harder for your opponent to use them.

Marth is faster than Link. Take advantage of that and bait attacks before you commit.
 

Niko45

Smash Master
Joined
Apr 16, 2008
Messages
3,220
Location
Westchester, NY
The gameplay is extremely slow. You need to work on cutting down your lag with L Cancels/JC grab but you also need a lot of work on your movement efficiency. Work on dash dances and wavedashes, mixing and matching them together, and most importantly work on fastfalling. You barely fastfall anything. There's a lot of standing and waiting and pausing on both of your parts which clearly indicates none of these techniques are 2nd hand for you yet.

You are missing the majority of your L Cancels from what I am seeing. Either that or you're just not moving fast enough afterwards. Realize that L Cancelling consistently in training mode is different from L Canceling against an opponent like the one in your videos, which is also way way different from l cancelling consistently against a very good opponent who puts pressure on you by moving quickly, crisply, and always l cancelling. Particularly work on L Cancelling moves on your opponent's shield because the timings are slightly different.

Your approaches are extremely straight forward, but I think if you work on the above movement techniques this will improve. Against good players you can't just run up and grab or run up and nair. Not in a million years.

Oh, and fastfall to the edge doesn't need to be held down and in. Just down. Flick the joystick down as soon as you slide from the ground above the edge into the air.
 

KirbyKaze

Smash Legend
Joined
Nov 18, 2007
Messages
17,679
Location
Spiral Mountain
You need to be gayer.

Pay more attention to what's going on.

Often you'll U-tilt him a bunch of times on his shield or something and he'll roll behind you and get shield up and then you'll keep U-tilting and then he grabs you or Dair OoS or something. When... if you just paid attention to the slow, laggy roll you could have grabbed and homo-***** him.

On the edge in one of the games (the one on Battlefield?), he's firefoxing below the stage and you edge roll rather than drop off Fair or gaying him and getting the gimp.

Waiting for them to do something after you put pressure on them and punishing it is a very big part of this game. You do it some, but should really abuse it much more than you are.
 

Red the Ghost

Smash Ace
Joined
Jun 17, 2008
Messages
670
Location
NC
Thanks you all. I'm finding out today that when I started playing, I didn't really completely master everything. I play matches and shffl unconciously, but I mess them up a lot, meaning though I input the commands, I don't always pull them off. -.-

Pretty much means I need to start practicing every day again. :3
 

Miggz

Pancake Sandwiches
Joined
May 28, 2007
Messages
1,473
Location
Bermuda [We Gotz De Triangle]
I have trouble running to the edge and doing the UpB thing =/
As vague as this sounds its all in the timing. I think you have to press Up B just before Sheik runs off the stage and right after you Up B you immediately start DI-ing into the ledge. I haven't attempted that in ages but that is how I remember it. =P

Sheik advice in a Marth forum...nice Miggz...nice. ^^"
 

ArcNatural

Banned ( ∫x, δx Points)
Joined
Jul 19, 2006
Messages
2,964
Location
Boston, MA
As vague as this sounds its all in the timing. I think you have to press Up B just before Sheik runs off the stage and right after you Up B you immediately start DI-ing into the ledge. I haven't attempted that in ages but that is how I remember it. =P

Sheik advice in a Marth forum...nice Miggz...nice. ^^"
I do it differently. Just imagine a JC upsmash slide. You want to upB where that slide would make you go off the stage. I always do it by UPbing and holding forward off the stage, then DIing back in.

Also another thing about the Link matchup that I didn't see anyone address. Dash dancing is a real waste if your not near Link, as every Link will just projectile spam you. If your in a position where you can't reach link with a dash dance grab. Walk. Walk enables you to dash dance, jump, grab in either direction, and most importantly ftilt projectiles out of the way. Once your back in range you can go back to dash dancing.

One of my biggest peeves is inappropriate dash dancing.
 

Piman34

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 15, 2006
Messages
1,309
Location
Phoenix, Arizona
3DS FC
3454-0406-0497
I didn't see this mentioned, but I noticed a problem that I do alot too. Rolling, you roll too much and there are usually better options against most characters (bar falco maybe), or at least that's what I've been told, and it seems pretty sound...especially once they start to punish/are better at tech chasing kinda thing
 
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