RoK the Reaper
Smash Lord
****This is the thread I shall be updating with my Guide. Do not close, or I'll make a new one. I'll put [COMPLETE] at the bottom when I'm done. For now, leave this on here as I will periodically be making videos and other things to back up what I say here.****
****New!!*****
Roy's D-Tilt can be used to be a "Platform chaser". Otherwise, with characters that are popped up enough to land onto an edge (Learn the damages certain characters do) to land onto it without being able to jump again, and either roll to either side or gets up quickly, can be forward smash or grabbed rather easily. This doesn't apply to Roy's up-throw, as the time it takes from throw to get up there is too great and you have a better chance of being hit.
The "RoK Combo" has been officially changed. Once players reach a certain percent, any move that Roy Does essentially knocks them to far away to set up for a forward smash. So, a new initiaitive is a bit of a mind game. Normally, people expect someone to either hit with both parts of the nuetral a for Roy, or just aim for for the last one to hit (like marth). You hit with the first one and shuffle down fast enough so that only the first hit connects, this only pops them up a little; You can then forward smash or down smash to kill them. This is stoppable if your opponent taps A during the frames they recover (Not to many) But this SHOULD get the job Done.
RoK insta classic - For those of you who remember my last guide, this was essentially a up-air to forward smash combination in order to kill certain people at certain damages. The best way to actually use this combo, is to wave dash BACKWARDZ off a platform on a stage (not off a stage) towards an opponent that is nearly at the other platform (really, only on Yoshi's story/ Battlefield, until you actually know the spacing), that way the back part will hit them and give you more time, you can then forward smash them, or go into chain throwing on Fox/Falco/Captain Falcon.
RagnaRoK the Reaper's Roy Guide, Vol. III
Mission Statement:: To do my best to attempt to show the people of the Smashboards community, specifically those who want to do well with Roy before brawl, or are just looking for new things to try with him; RagnaRoK's method of playing with the Lord of Pharae who wields the Sword of Seals.
Disclaimer:: This is MY way of playing with Roy, and may not be the best way to play for YOU. But these techniques, character specific stratedgies, edgeguards, counters, etc. Are how I play and how I will continue to play, and I've been steadily improving these combos and techniques throughout my melee journey. So, read and try and take all into account. Constructive Critism is encouraged, *******es will be labled as *******es. Moderators, I ask that you remove these people however, I don't want my guide to turn into a flammer's thread, like you have done with all my other guides. GET THIS **** RIGHT THIS TIME!
[Introduction]
Roy is a character in Super Smash Bros. Melee that the majority of the smash community feels is a lesser clone of Marth; Only a few battle this and even worse, the majority of the battlers actually BELIEVE Roy is not better than Marth. False.
As far as overall gameplay, it is true that Marth is better than Roy. Marth has longer reach, he has the sweet spot at the END of his sword, meaning longer distances and not allowing your opponent to really deal more damage. He has a better edgeguard game, he has better spikes, juggle and combo ability, and ontop of that, he's quicker, as he wave dashes further and has less frames at the end of virtually every move. With this in mind, how is Roy better?(My personal opinions).
Roy is not nearly close to being as cheap as Marth, which means I'm not limited to feeling a type of gamer's guilt when I beat someone with him. It takes more skill to effectively defeat someone with Roy than with Marth, so when you can beat someone with him, that someone HAS beaten with Marth, you get more respect; and respect in general for being exceptional with this character. Roy HAS FIRE. Roy is more masculine, their taunts and winning poses alone display this. Roy has a bigger element of surprise if you are able to pull out newstuff (Which I will explain) and some people flat out don't have any experience playing against him. (Most people have played against a decent Roy now, but still the lack of very good Roy players still hold a big element of surprise).
Guide Disclaimer: As I have said, this guide is entirely my way of playing Roy. I attempted to use Marth, even though I was good with him and broke a lot of ground, Roy will always be better to me, and I have brought him back up. I'll be giving you things I use when I play as him, character specific strategies and things I do that work. Some people may debate this, but don't knock it till you try it.
Brief synopsis of what to expect from Roy: Roy is currently a Low tier character, and the very bottom of the recovery tier list. Thinking that you will get very far with him in a brief amount of time is a nearly insane thought at best. Roy is very hard to master, but is very rewarding once you do; but even mastering him, you will always be at a disadvantage to someone else who plays really any of the top tier characters, so mindplay; movement, spacing, and area control are Key to actually winning, as well as being able to Smash DI, and regular DI Well.
The "Tilt" moves: Roy has 3 tilt moves (same as everyone else) and one nuetral A attack. All of which are used for different purposes, but all CAN be used.
Forward tilt: Forward tilt can be a very wise alternative to the forward smash in some situations. It comes out quicker and doesn't have much lag. I mostly use this to set up for an edgeguard, or to use as an edgeguard in place of an forward smash. A lot of people actually tend to use this tilt on accident when trying to do some other move, so making it a regular move within your playstyle can prove vital for change-ups and unpredictability.
Down tilt: Anyone who has every even attempted to play with Roy, knows that this is actually the best tilt move he possess. This is used for a lot of his start up combo moves, and combo linkers. it pops them up high, sometimes enough to do a forward smash, to grab off of, or to merely gain spacing grounds with. Mostly used on heavy characters;, though over-usage will caused you to crouch cancel and DI down quite a bit; Use frequently, but wisely.
Up tilt: This uptilt move is nearly useless except for a very select amount of situations. It's slower than Marth's, doesn't allow them to be popped up nearly as High, don't hope to kill someone with this move. This should be used as a way to defend an incoming attack from the air, and normally followed by a block to shield grab, or dash dancing or wave dashing. I've heard you're able to grab after it in certain situations, but I have yet to see this with my own eyes, so I'll take it as a Myth. Also, on stages with low platforms, more than likely Yoshi's story or Fountain of Dreams, it can force your opponent to run off the platform, rather than to drop through to try and attack you.
Nuetral A: I mainly only use this move to grab after d tilts where they can either be grabbed or D tilt'd once more; So that I can grab them right afterwards (as most people don't expect you to use this at all). When I'm combo'ing, throw it in so they can block after it connects, since it has some lag, and then grab them afterwards. Or, when Fox or Falco are using illusion; Use it to knock them down to force them to use Butt-fire (FireFox) to come at the stage, where a counter is normally waiting on them.
Smash Attacks: Roy has three VERY nice smashattacks, though each of them has a good amount of lag, the one wiht the least amount of lag probably being his forward smash (though could be his up smash, not too sure). But I stick mostly to down and forward smashes.
Forward Smash: The Forward Smash is Roy's main horizontal killer, and main killer to be perfectly honest. This has a ton of knockback, despite not really doing all that much damage (20% I believe, most times). It can kill very early, and I call it "Reaper's angle", when you hit them and they DI a certain way to make them fly straight horizontal away from you, this is what normally kills them at very low percents. Use this sparingly, as you're up for some punishment if you miss within close proximity (which is ALL of the time for the sweet spots). Though, at higher damages, hitting with the very tip can kill as well (as long as you follow up with the proper edgeguarding).
Down Smash"The RagnaRoK": This move is strong, and is the "Peach Killer", very good move against her. However, this move has killer amounts of lag and can and will leave you open for punishment and devastating combos. Only use this as part of a RoKbo (RoK combo), or when you know it's nearly gurantee'd to win, or you won't suffer any punishment from it. If you can connect with the very, very tip of it, you'll send them either diagonally up, or down, resulting in either an edgeguard situation or a Psuedo spike. This is my Favourite Smash Attack.
This moved came to be known as "The RagnaRoK" because Wobbles the Phoenix was playing against me and said I was the only Roy he had encountered that frequently used the down smash as part of his regular play-style, and thus, dubbed it "The RagnaRoK", which now most people within the Dallas community know it is. Also, when playing a tournament in the West (Forgot what it's called). He used Roy in a friendly and referred to the down smash also as "The RagnaRoK", now, should be a commonly accepted term.
Up Smash: Up-Smash is rarely used to kill, it's also rarely ever even really used. Though, it can act as a defense against people like C.Falcon, and G-Dorf who like to use their Dair a lot. Also, for Foxes/Falcos who aren't expecting it and forget to DI, you can combo them with this, as they may fall into it 2 or 3 times before actually escaping it, sometimes you can get a forward smash out of it. Also, this at times, is an unintentional spike. From what I've seen, when you hit with the very VERY tip of it; and they are DI'ing down somewhat, it spikes them straight down, and CANNOT be meteor canceled, Has the ability to kill at 0% if they don't get their wits about them intime, and can set up for a pretty good edgeguard.
Air attacks: Roy has some good air moves, though, He doesn't have the ability to combo as much as Marth, and Roy is NOT an air based character, so fighting head to head in this fashion will mostly result in a loss on your part. Though, knowing how to take advantage of it will help you win.
Dair: Roy's dair is mostly useless as far as most pro smashers are concerned, some have even gone to the extreme of, I quote, "Don't use it". Though, this can be used as a pop up to a forward smash; Or can be used off the edge for the "RoK Spike" (Which was done by me BEFORE Reed came out with Rebellion of Fire #2), and a drop through the platform attack. ALSO, besides the RoK way of spiking, still a spike. Just like Marth's, but you have to hit them when Roy's head is inside of them, while being above him (The sword rotation starts right there, and must be there to hit). It's a tiny hit backs and requires loads of accuracy; It's easily meteor cancellable and will not kill until higher damages, when you will need luck to land it. Strong caution when using this.
Fair: You can get two of these out in your double jump, Full hop and fair, then jump again and Fair, can combo some characters. This is used mostly at low damages, to either grab soon as it connects, or to go into a forward smash if they're beginning to rack up damage and move away from it's blows. Also, you can jump off the stage and knock someone back with this with proper timing, Also, can stop Fox/Falco from using their illusion/Butt fire when even or above the stage; Tippering this on Marth at high percents can combo into a forward Smash, or down smash Psuedo/Diagonal hit. (Depending on the damage, A wave dash techchase > Forward smash may be required.)
Nair: Swing the blade left! Then Right! Well, it has two hits in this motion and can be used to go into a forward smash at mid percents on heavy characters, and low damage on light weight characters. You can wave dash off the stage and immediately use this and can get back on the stage as an edgeguard (risky, just like all of his edgeguarding). Also, at higher damages can be used in air fighting to knock your opponent off the stage, or to come through a platform to push them back.
Uair: In my opinion, Roy's BEST air esque move. When your opponent is under a platform, spam this with shuffle and force them to come down to you; You're not helpless. This also sets up for nice combos on Fox/Falco/Captain Falcon and a few others. On a lot of characters, can be combo'd in directly to a Uair, or into a Fair. Lower damages, you can grab soon afterwards to set up for more combos or Uairs. Can be used when edge-hopping (Jumping from the edge to the stage) to pop up before a smash attack is used.
Bair: One of Roy's forgotten moves, as people I see hardly even use this with Roy, but love the hell out of it with Marth. You should apply this also to our hero! Sometimes can be tricky to L-Cancel (From my usage with it), but can be combo'd into a F Smash, has decent range, and can be used as a sick, edgeguard. Which I'll discuss later. Can be used through a platform when trying to knock them a certain way off of it, where as the Uair is just for racking up damage or forcing them to come to you. (Use the Bair on a Peach that's downsmashing on a platform, rather than a Uair).
Special moves (B-Button): Roy has very good special moves, a one hit kill move (NEVER expect the full connection of this, you're being an idjit), and a good Fire recovery technique (Still should not be the BOTTOM of the recovery list), but whatever.
Nuetral B: Basically, this is the charge up hit move that is also a kill move of Roy's. It's essentially a "one-hit kill", but we all know that you'll never full charge this. It's good to use against Fox/Falco's illusion if you're trying to go straight in for the kill, as it hits below the level a bit, and if it extends out, you can effectively mess up their edge game. For Gannon's and Captain Falco's, this can kill their sweet spotting. I'll discuss more of it's usage later, but it is one of the better edgeguarding moves used in the game.
Side B: Roy's side B is known as "Double Edge Dance" (Which is more manly sounding than Marth's "Sword dance"). This is his BEST, B move. As you have many variations of this, such as the shield lower combo (Which is Side B, + Up B + Down B + Down B) Kills their shield, doesn't complete destroy it, but does a good job, and usually the very end of the combo hurts. Just one "Side B" has the ability to set up for a grab or a combo (since most people shield when the first one hits) or you can wave dash away if they block it and you're out of reach. The third input (nuetral) is his kill, the third input up is his meteor'd spike (one of them). Use this alot in your offensive tactics, but switch it up and impliment it with other moves; DO NOT, I repeat DO NOT be predictable with this. (This move is also one of the few Roy possess that is geniunely better than MARTH's). Also, can be used to give him a bit more air when used. (Though only the first one, the others preceeding this will only delay his fall, not make him go any further than he would've. )
Down B "Roy Counters All": My most well known phrase "Roy Counters all". Roy's counter is in fact, stronger than Marth's, however, has less frames for the actual part to counter, as well as a longer lag time. Though, when hit, it deals back, I believe 1.5 x the amount damage (correct me if I'm wrong). it seems to work extremely well against gannon's/falcos/ Peach's down smash and Marth really. Also, the invisible wall glitch, I believe it's called. Allows for a player to be spurred diagonally up, and then begin to rapidly move down in an angle so it looks like they bounced off of a wall. This cannot be meteor'd or jumped out of until you've gone as far as you can go/dazed as long as you can go. do NOT spam this, it should only be used a few times in a match when you KNOW something is coming. I.E. someone messes up and Falcon Punches/Gannon Punch, someone is spamming a move and you know it's coming, Edge-hopped Counter (Beautiful).
Up B : Roy's Main point of recovery. Can be used either straight up, or Diagonally. My suggestion is to learn how to sweet spot the edge below the stage with Roy's Horizonal recovery. This way you have a better shot to Tech/Avoid Marth's tip when he's going to attack you, Mario's cape, Peach's down smash, Falco spikes, Fox's shine, Link's spin spike, etc. etc. This is VERY crucial. Also to avoid MARTH'S counter, it hurts. Though, this has it's uses. If you can get peach on the highest platform of Yoshi's island, you can effectively 1 hit kill her with a reverse blazer (Only if she's in the air a bit above the platform). Also, the reverse blazer (Which is you hit up b, quickly change directions after initiation) can kill Jigglypuff on a good amount of stages (F.D., Fountain of Dreams, Yoshi's) with one hit.
Things to practice with Roy: Things to practice with Roy, against CPU's, individual training, and against Humans (Friendlies/Friends).
CPU's: Sethlon discovered that if you use Fox and go to training mode to chain throw him, he randomly DI's in different directions, this is good to help you learn to chase, and to work on your JC Grabbing. When you practice against a computer, Practice against Lvl 7 and 8's; Better than level 9's and are good for solo training. However, fight like you would a normal human player, wave dashing/Dash dancing, all of that. If you don't have anyone else and you're forced to do this, might as well make the most of it. Practice combos, uptilts, fight against DIFFERENT people. Try this sequence. Falco>Fox>Captain Falcon>Donkey Kong>GannonDorf>Mario>Luigi>Princess Peach>Link>Roy (Repeat). This sequence should give you enough variety for you not to get comfortable in one play style. Try out new moves, but remember these vital things while playing. THE CPU DOES NOT DI AWAY, NOR DOES THE CPU DO ANY MOVEMENT TRICKS. This is to learn the weight, and what is possible to probably combo.
Training: I suggest for training on things such as movement/L-Cancelling/Shuffling, you plug a second controller into the Gamecube port, and what you should do is simply select a character for that, set the time to infinite and go to Battle field. Practice L-Cancellling, Wave Dashing, All your L-cancelled Air moves; Movement, Wavedashing left and to the right. Wave landing and wave dashing on and off of platforms. Getting on and off/stage, ledgehopping and all that good stuff. (I will make a description for all this terminology a bit later). But for now, this is how you'll get faster and gain confidence, practice makes perfect!
Human/Friends/Friendlies: Even if it's only a smashfest, this is the time you put your hard earned skills to work. Now, remember, this isn't a tournament, there is no reason for you to try and prove anything here necessarily, as the atmosphere of a tournament is much thicker; So, you want to get out all your kinks now, and find out what works/doesn't work, and what needs to be tweaked. Ask to play some really good people, once you master how to fight against them, find diverse styles, the more styles and change-ups you know, the better prepared you'll be. Remember, mix up offense and defense; emphasis on grabbing and tech-chasing, and use of the COUNTER.
Edge guarding tactics: Going to tell you some tactics I use to edgeguard with Roy; Some of them (if not most of them) are all in the timing, and the reaction to the slight lag the game gives when you connect with a hit, or the duration of him within those frames of attacking before he can successfully recover. All of what I am going to say, WORKS. But, you may die if you don't get this down, PERFECT. So, Practice, practice, Practice!
"RagnaRoK" Edge guard: The Downsmash of Roy has the ability to knock people away from you diagonally upwards, or at a diagonal downward trajectory, kind of like jigglypuff's downsmash. You have to hit with the very tip, and this can be just enough for them to move far enough either to not grab the edge, for them to miss a sweet spot and you F-Smash, or you can simply edgehog them. It all depends on the situation, but this is definately an option. Should only be used if your opponent is low/Moderate damage and you're running and have to dash cancel a bit away and as a last minute effort to do some damage.
"Rarth" Edge guard: Basically, while holding onto the edge (As if you were edgehogging) and your opponent is coming downwards, at a height that is either even or a little below the stage within your range. You tap back, or down to let go to the edge, and quickly tap the jump button, and the control stick backwards nearly simutaneously to allow him to do his Bair and send them back. Immediately afterwards, do your Up B Diagonally to grab the stage. Very crucial t his is done ABOVE the stage (When Roy jumps) He doesn't have enough ups to make it back if he drops low to hit an opponent.
RoK's Spike: When a character is coming upwards from the stage and you're still hanging on the edge (Preferably, just grabbed the edge as you'll need the invincibility frames), Works better on Gannon, C.Falcon, Fox/Falco. When they're directly above you from going upwards to try and land upon the stage (Since you're edgehogging) What you do is Jump towards the stage and down your Dair as quickly as possible. If right, It'll spike them down at a faster rate than normal and should result in them dying. (Example is seen in Rebellion of Fire #2, I posted this technique up a while ago though, and people called it idiotic, but it's clearly do-able with proof, as are my other edgeguards). Also, if it doesn't work and manages to pop them up, if their damage is right, and you L-Canceled it, you will pop them up and can forward smash to setup for another edgeguard.
FireDrop: A basic Roy edgeguard, with actually two ways to do this. The first is basically you jump off the stage and hold the button and release to try and connect with a flair blade to push them back. You only do this on the first full hop, to allow a jump and your Up+B recovery to make it back to the edge. The second is intially you run to the edge of the stage and hold B and then release, you should slide off the stage. This Actually moves a good ways below the stage, and fairly easy to make it back if timed right. Can result in death if you don't know what you're doing.
Stage Flare Blade: Attempt to hit someone with the very tip of the Fair blade so it pushes them outwards when edgeguarding. However, you can also get close (Not too close) when you do it, because it can mess up Fox's/Falco's illusion edgegrabs, and can take care of Link before he even gets close enough. It's a good edgeguard that most people don't do because it's time consuming.
Counter: Roy's Down+B move (ROY COUNTERS ALL). This is good to use against Marth's, as it pushes them outwards and you can easily edgehog them, one very good thing about it. Also, can be used against FoxFire, and people like Shiek, who jumps from the edge and Fair's, or Captain Falcons who like to edgehop and Fair (Knee). Use this wisely as it doesn't have many active frames, and has a huge amount of time in actual lag, use sparingly, but try to connect when you do and they'll learn to FEAR this move.
D.E.D. (Double Edge Dance) Fourth input of the combination down: Say you're going against a Marth/Link/Shiek. This is a good move to use to attempt to push them back while staying a safe distance. Roy Lounges forward and stabs his sword multiple times, and it actually goes downwards and through the level a few times. This allows you to try and get the very tip to push them back. While allowing enough room to avoid attack (Or just get hit by the tips, which doesn't have all that much knockback). Sometimes can foil sweet spotted attempts, or if you just did it, can thrwart your adversaries wanting to try and jump off and attack you, as the attack had just now been intiiated.
Character Specifics: Going to go over some character specifics now. If you reached this section, you should've read everything above just incase I make a reference to something. This and other parts of my guide will be updating constantly, so you may want to scan back through the guide for improvements and recently uncovered information.
[A brief overview] = Roy should be played slightly aggressive in order to win, especially in his closer matchups. Work on L-Cancelling throughly, and using air attacks deep into your opponent, so you can L-Cancel and run behind them to a grab or DED if it misses, as people love to punish Roys with many shield grabs to combos. Spamming forward smash in certain situations CAN help you to win, against shiek's and others. Remember to use your side step (Down+R/L) wisely and to go for early kills, it being very hard to do so once they float away at nearly every tap Roy gives. Master shield grabbing, tech chasing, and Roy's overall movement, as well sa being able to sweet spot his Up+B vertically, and diagonally.
Fox McCloud: Fox is a Space Animal, which isn't very good for Roy. BUT. Of the two, Fox gives Roy the least amount of trouble. Reason?: No Pesky lasers which allow Roy more room to move, though he can be combo'd more by Fox than by Falco, but the possibility of escaping a combo to rack up damage is more apparently on Fox, than Falco. Roy has a good advantage in this match (As they are the few of the variety Roy can successfully combo/Chain throw). But he's still at a disadvantage, as he is with most of his match-ups.
Stages in Roy's Favor:Fountain of Dreams/Dreamland/Donkey Kong 64
Stages nuetral to both parties: Pokemon Stadium, Battlefield, Final Destination
Stages against Roys Favor: Yoshi stage
Stratedgy Synopsis.: Fox is the highest of all the top tiers, because he is not truly in a disadvantage against any character he may come up against; Roy being no exception. Though, in this match; As badly as Roy can take abuse, he can also dish it out nearly blow for Blow. Fox can be Chain throwed, D-tilted into grabs, Countered on his FoxFire recovery, as well as flare blade and nuetral A dropping him below the stage to setup for more edgeguards. I suggest watching out for throws from Fox, As upthrows MUST be DI'd, as he can juggle with multiple Uairs and can kill with them at early damage, as well as his upsmash. Being wave shine'd off the cliff when Fox is close to the edge, can also let him kill you with a shinespike, as you'll still be falling from the first shine as you can shine you again. I'll talk with you on how to avoid a good bit of this, and how to battle back.
Defensive Stratedgy: If Fox manages to shine you off the Cliff/Stage/Edge, you want to Up+B as quickly as you can. If you managed to get up Smashed, attempt SMASH DI'ING. This will save you if you can do it right. If you're hit with a sidewards smash, DI towards the stage diagonally up, to go as much as you can upwards, you want to avoid being sent horizontally or down. Crouch cancel works against everything pretty much against his shine, Down Tilt works well if you're being attacked and crouch cancelling. Platforms are your friend, learn to use them fast and quickly and confuse a Fox player, not many characters have the ability to actually stick with Fox toe-to-toe at low tier status. Start Shield grabbing to get him afraid to do anything to you (Watch out for the shine soon as he L-Cancels, it pops out the very first frame of the animation).
Offensive tactics: Fox can be chain throwed, DO NOT start off his life with trying to chain throw, as it is impossible to do so when he's 0%, wait till he gets to 10-15% before you start trying, he may actually DI into a forward smash to setup for an edgeguard/Early death scenario. Shield grabbing is key to punish him for being over-aggressive; And double edge dance should be in your main arsenal of attacks. DED combination B, Up+B, Side+B will nearly hit him every single time, no matter what damage he may be (Unless you get him up to crazy 200+ numbers). Counter works very, VERY well against him; it does ridiculous amounts of damage, so when he FireFox's, make him pay for that. You can use your nuetral A doing his Illusion to knock him below the stage, forcing him to FireFox right into your counter. You can also Flare blade to kill any sweet spotting attempts he may have with the move.
Effective combo's to use against this character:
(From 0% or up to about 7%)
1. Grab>Up-Throw>D-Tilt>Grab>up-Throw>Chain Throw into Forward Smash.
2. D-Tilt>Tech-Chase>Grab ( and hit)>Up-Throw into Forward Smash.
3. Fair>Grab(hit)>Up-Throw>D-Tilt>Fair>Forward Smash
4. Grab>F-Throw>Grab>( into # 3 from [Grab(hit)] or 2 from the same spot)
Over-View: Fox is still a high disadvantage for Roy, but with all he has against him, he nearly has against Fox. The only difference is, meta-game and all comes into play here; You can't be scared of high-tiers when you play, that's the big key to success when yu play Roy, if you think you're severly handicap a going in, YOU WILL BE. Positive mindset is key to overall victory.
[INCOMPLETE]
****New!!*****
Roy's D-Tilt can be used to be a "Platform chaser". Otherwise, with characters that are popped up enough to land onto an edge (Learn the damages certain characters do) to land onto it without being able to jump again, and either roll to either side or gets up quickly, can be forward smash or grabbed rather easily. This doesn't apply to Roy's up-throw, as the time it takes from throw to get up there is too great and you have a better chance of being hit.
The "RoK Combo" has been officially changed. Once players reach a certain percent, any move that Roy Does essentially knocks them to far away to set up for a forward smash. So, a new initiaitive is a bit of a mind game. Normally, people expect someone to either hit with both parts of the nuetral a for Roy, or just aim for for the last one to hit (like marth). You hit with the first one and shuffle down fast enough so that only the first hit connects, this only pops them up a little; You can then forward smash or down smash to kill them. This is stoppable if your opponent taps A during the frames they recover (Not to many) But this SHOULD get the job Done.
RoK insta classic - For those of you who remember my last guide, this was essentially a up-air to forward smash combination in order to kill certain people at certain damages. The best way to actually use this combo, is to wave dash BACKWARDZ off a platform on a stage (not off a stage) towards an opponent that is nearly at the other platform (really, only on Yoshi's story/ Battlefield, until you actually know the spacing), that way the back part will hit them and give you more time, you can then forward smash them, or go into chain throwing on Fox/Falco/Captain Falcon.
RagnaRoK the Reaper's Roy Guide, Vol. III
Mission Statement:: To do my best to attempt to show the people of the Smashboards community, specifically those who want to do well with Roy before brawl, or are just looking for new things to try with him; RagnaRoK's method of playing with the Lord of Pharae who wields the Sword of Seals.
Disclaimer:: This is MY way of playing with Roy, and may not be the best way to play for YOU. But these techniques, character specific stratedgies, edgeguards, counters, etc. Are how I play and how I will continue to play, and I've been steadily improving these combos and techniques throughout my melee journey. So, read and try and take all into account. Constructive Critism is encouraged, *******es will be labled as *******es. Moderators, I ask that you remove these people however, I don't want my guide to turn into a flammer's thread, like you have done with all my other guides. GET THIS **** RIGHT THIS TIME!
[Introduction]
Roy is a character in Super Smash Bros. Melee that the majority of the smash community feels is a lesser clone of Marth; Only a few battle this and even worse, the majority of the battlers actually BELIEVE Roy is not better than Marth. False.
As far as overall gameplay, it is true that Marth is better than Roy. Marth has longer reach, he has the sweet spot at the END of his sword, meaning longer distances and not allowing your opponent to really deal more damage. He has a better edgeguard game, he has better spikes, juggle and combo ability, and ontop of that, he's quicker, as he wave dashes further and has less frames at the end of virtually every move. With this in mind, how is Roy better?(My personal opinions).
Roy is not nearly close to being as cheap as Marth, which means I'm not limited to feeling a type of gamer's guilt when I beat someone with him. It takes more skill to effectively defeat someone with Roy than with Marth, so when you can beat someone with him, that someone HAS beaten with Marth, you get more respect; and respect in general for being exceptional with this character. Roy HAS FIRE. Roy is more masculine, their taunts and winning poses alone display this. Roy has a bigger element of surprise if you are able to pull out newstuff (Which I will explain) and some people flat out don't have any experience playing against him. (Most people have played against a decent Roy now, but still the lack of very good Roy players still hold a big element of surprise).
Guide Disclaimer: As I have said, this guide is entirely my way of playing Roy. I attempted to use Marth, even though I was good with him and broke a lot of ground, Roy will always be better to me, and I have brought him back up. I'll be giving you things I use when I play as him, character specific strategies and things I do that work. Some people may debate this, but don't knock it till you try it.
Brief synopsis of what to expect from Roy: Roy is currently a Low tier character, and the very bottom of the recovery tier list. Thinking that you will get very far with him in a brief amount of time is a nearly insane thought at best. Roy is very hard to master, but is very rewarding once you do; but even mastering him, you will always be at a disadvantage to someone else who plays really any of the top tier characters, so mindplay; movement, spacing, and area control are Key to actually winning, as well as being able to Smash DI, and regular DI Well.
The "Tilt" moves: Roy has 3 tilt moves (same as everyone else) and one nuetral A attack. All of which are used for different purposes, but all CAN be used.
Forward tilt: Forward tilt can be a very wise alternative to the forward smash in some situations. It comes out quicker and doesn't have much lag. I mostly use this to set up for an edgeguard, or to use as an edgeguard in place of an forward smash. A lot of people actually tend to use this tilt on accident when trying to do some other move, so making it a regular move within your playstyle can prove vital for change-ups and unpredictability.
Down tilt: Anyone who has every even attempted to play with Roy, knows that this is actually the best tilt move he possess. This is used for a lot of his start up combo moves, and combo linkers. it pops them up high, sometimes enough to do a forward smash, to grab off of, or to merely gain spacing grounds with. Mostly used on heavy characters;, though over-usage will caused you to crouch cancel and DI down quite a bit; Use frequently, but wisely.
Up tilt: This uptilt move is nearly useless except for a very select amount of situations. It's slower than Marth's, doesn't allow them to be popped up nearly as High, don't hope to kill someone with this move. This should be used as a way to defend an incoming attack from the air, and normally followed by a block to shield grab, or dash dancing or wave dashing. I've heard you're able to grab after it in certain situations, but I have yet to see this with my own eyes, so I'll take it as a Myth. Also, on stages with low platforms, more than likely Yoshi's story or Fountain of Dreams, it can force your opponent to run off the platform, rather than to drop through to try and attack you.
Nuetral A: I mainly only use this move to grab after d tilts where they can either be grabbed or D tilt'd once more; So that I can grab them right afterwards (as most people don't expect you to use this at all). When I'm combo'ing, throw it in so they can block after it connects, since it has some lag, and then grab them afterwards. Or, when Fox or Falco are using illusion; Use it to knock them down to force them to use Butt-fire (FireFox) to come at the stage, where a counter is normally waiting on them.
Smash Attacks: Roy has three VERY nice smashattacks, though each of them has a good amount of lag, the one wiht the least amount of lag probably being his forward smash (though could be his up smash, not too sure). But I stick mostly to down and forward smashes.
Forward Smash: The Forward Smash is Roy's main horizontal killer, and main killer to be perfectly honest. This has a ton of knockback, despite not really doing all that much damage (20% I believe, most times). It can kill very early, and I call it "Reaper's angle", when you hit them and they DI a certain way to make them fly straight horizontal away from you, this is what normally kills them at very low percents. Use this sparingly, as you're up for some punishment if you miss within close proximity (which is ALL of the time for the sweet spots). Though, at higher damages, hitting with the very tip can kill as well (as long as you follow up with the proper edgeguarding).
Down Smash"The RagnaRoK": This move is strong, and is the "Peach Killer", very good move against her. However, this move has killer amounts of lag and can and will leave you open for punishment and devastating combos. Only use this as part of a RoKbo (RoK combo), or when you know it's nearly gurantee'd to win, or you won't suffer any punishment from it. If you can connect with the very, very tip of it, you'll send them either diagonally up, or down, resulting in either an edgeguard situation or a Psuedo spike. This is my Favourite Smash Attack.
This moved came to be known as "The RagnaRoK" because Wobbles the Phoenix was playing against me and said I was the only Roy he had encountered that frequently used the down smash as part of his regular play-style, and thus, dubbed it "The RagnaRoK", which now most people within the Dallas community know it is. Also, when playing a tournament in the West (Forgot what it's called). He used Roy in a friendly and referred to the down smash also as "The RagnaRoK", now, should be a commonly accepted term.
Up Smash: Up-Smash is rarely used to kill, it's also rarely ever even really used. Though, it can act as a defense against people like C.Falcon, and G-Dorf who like to use their Dair a lot. Also, for Foxes/Falcos who aren't expecting it and forget to DI, you can combo them with this, as they may fall into it 2 or 3 times before actually escaping it, sometimes you can get a forward smash out of it. Also, this at times, is an unintentional spike. From what I've seen, when you hit with the very VERY tip of it; and they are DI'ing down somewhat, it spikes them straight down, and CANNOT be meteor canceled, Has the ability to kill at 0% if they don't get their wits about them intime, and can set up for a pretty good edgeguard.
Air attacks: Roy has some good air moves, though, He doesn't have the ability to combo as much as Marth, and Roy is NOT an air based character, so fighting head to head in this fashion will mostly result in a loss on your part. Though, knowing how to take advantage of it will help you win.
Dair: Roy's dair is mostly useless as far as most pro smashers are concerned, some have even gone to the extreme of, I quote, "Don't use it". Though, this can be used as a pop up to a forward smash; Or can be used off the edge for the "RoK Spike" (Which was done by me BEFORE Reed came out with Rebellion of Fire #2), and a drop through the platform attack. ALSO, besides the RoK way of spiking, still a spike. Just like Marth's, but you have to hit them when Roy's head is inside of them, while being above him (The sword rotation starts right there, and must be there to hit). It's a tiny hit backs and requires loads of accuracy; It's easily meteor cancellable and will not kill until higher damages, when you will need luck to land it. Strong caution when using this.
Fair: You can get two of these out in your double jump, Full hop and fair, then jump again and Fair, can combo some characters. This is used mostly at low damages, to either grab soon as it connects, or to go into a forward smash if they're beginning to rack up damage and move away from it's blows. Also, you can jump off the stage and knock someone back with this with proper timing, Also, can stop Fox/Falco from using their illusion/Butt fire when even or above the stage; Tippering this on Marth at high percents can combo into a forward Smash, or down smash Psuedo/Diagonal hit. (Depending on the damage, A wave dash techchase > Forward smash may be required.)
Nair: Swing the blade left! Then Right! Well, it has two hits in this motion and can be used to go into a forward smash at mid percents on heavy characters, and low damage on light weight characters. You can wave dash off the stage and immediately use this and can get back on the stage as an edgeguard (risky, just like all of his edgeguarding). Also, at higher damages can be used in air fighting to knock your opponent off the stage, or to come through a platform to push them back.
Uair: In my opinion, Roy's BEST air esque move. When your opponent is under a platform, spam this with shuffle and force them to come down to you; You're not helpless. This also sets up for nice combos on Fox/Falco/Captain Falcon and a few others. On a lot of characters, can be combo'd in directly to a Uair, or into a Fair. Lower damages, you can grab soon afterwards to set up for more combos or Uairs. Can be used when edge-hopping (Jumping from the edge to the stage) to pop up before a smash attack is used.
Bair: One of Roy's forgotten moves, as people I see hardly even use this with Roy, but love the hell out of it with Marth. You should apply this also to our hero! Sometimes can be tricky to L-Cancel (From my usage with it), but can be combo'd into a F Smash, has decent range, and can be used as a sick, edgeguard. Which I'll discuss later. Can be used through a platform when trying to knock them a certain way off of it, where as the Uair is just for racking up damage or forcing them to come to you. (Use the Bair on a Peach that's downsmashing on a platform, rather than a Uair).
Special moves (B-Button): Roy has very good special moves, a one hit kill move (NEVER expect the full connection of this, you're being an idjit), and a good Fire recovery technique (Still should not be the BOTTOM of the recovery list), but whatever.
Nuetral B: Basically, this is the charge up hit move that is also a kill move of Roy's. It's essentially a "one-hit kill", but we all know that you'll never full charge this. It's good to use against Fox/Falco's illusion if you're trying to go straight in for the kill, as it hits below the level a bit, and if it extends out, you can effectively mess up their edge game. For Gannon's and Captain Falco's, this can kill their sweet spotting. I'll discuss more of it's usage later, but it is one of the better edgeguarding moves used in the game.
Side B: Roy's side B is known as "Double Edge Dance" (Which is more manly sounding than Marth's "Sword dance"). This is his BEST, B move. As you have many variations of this, such as the shield lower combo (Which is Side B, + Up B + Down B + Down B) Kills their shield, doesn't complete destroy it, but does a good job, and usually the very end of the combo hurts. Just one "Side B" has the ability to set up for a grab or a combo (since most people shield when the first one hits) or you can wave dash away if they block it and you're out of reach. The third input (nuetral) is his kill, the third input up is his meteor'd spike (one of them). Use this alot in your offensive tactics, but switch it up and impliment it with other moves; DO NOT, I repeat DO NOT be predictable with this. (This move is also one of the few Roy possess that is geniunely better than MARTH's). Also, can be used to give him a bit more air when used. (Though only the first one, the others preceeding this will only delay his fall, not make him go any further than he would've. )
Down B "Roy Counters All": My most well known phrase "Roy Counters all". Roy's counter is in fact, stronger than Marth's, however, has less frames for the actual part to counter, as well as a longer lag time. Though, when hit, it deals back, I believe 1.5 x the amount damage (correct me if I'm wrong). it seems to work extremely well against gannon's/falcos/ Peach's down smash and Marth really. Also, the invisible wall glitch, I believe it's called. Allows for a player to be spurred diagonally up, and then begin to rapidly move down in an angle so it looks like they bounced off of a wall. This cannot be meteor'd or jumped out of until you've gone as far as you can go/dazed as long as you can go. do NOT spam this, it should only be used a few times in a match when you KNOW something is coming. I.E. someone messes up and Falcon Punches/Gannon Punch, someone is spamming a move and you know it's coming, Edge-hopped Counter (Beautiful).
Up B : Roy's Main point of recovery. Can be used either straight up, or Diagonally. My suggestion is to learn how to sweet spot the edge below the stage with Roy's Horizonal recovery. This way you have a better shot to Tech/Avoid Marth's tip when he's going to attack you, Mario's cape, Peach's down smash, Falco spikes, Fox's shine, Link's spin spike, etc. etc. This is VERY crucial. Also to avoid MARTH'S counter, it hurts. Though, this has it's uses. If you can get peach on the highest platform of Yoshi's island, you can effectively 1 hit kill her with a reverse blazer (Only if she's in the air a bit above the platform). Also, the reverse blazer (Which is you hit up b, quickly change directions after initiation) can kill Jigglypuff on a good amount of stages (F.D., Fountain of Dreams, Yoshi's) with one hit.
Things to practice with Roy: Things to practice with Roy, against CPU's, individual training, and against Humans (Friendlies/Friends).
CPU's: Sethlon discovered that if you use Fox and go to training mode to chain throw him, he randomly DI's in different directions, this is good to help you learn to chase, and to work on your JC Grabbing. When you practice against a computer, Practice against Lvl 7 and 8's; Better than level 9's and are good for solo training. However, fight like you would a normal human player, wave dashing/Dash dancing, all of that. If you don't have anyone else and you're forced to do this, might as well make the most of it. Practice combos, uptilts, fight against DIFFERENT people. Try this sequence. Falco>Fox>Captain Falcon>Donkey Kong>GannonDorf>Mario>Luigi>Princess Peach>Link>Roy (Repeat). This sequence should give you enough variety for you not to get comfortable in one play style. Try out new moves, but remember these vital things while playing. THE CPU DOES NOT DI AWAY, NOR DOES THE CPU DO ANY MOVEMENT TRICKS. This is to learn the weight, and what is possible to probably combo.
Training: I suggest for training on things such as movement/L-Cancelling/Shuffling, you plug a second controller into the Gamecube port, and what you should do is simply select a character for that, set the time to infinite and go to Battle field. Practice L-Cancellling, Wave Dashing, All your L-cancelled Air moves; Movement, Wavedashing left and to the right. Wave landing and wave dashing on and off of platforms. Getting on and off/stage, ledgehopping and all that good stuff. (I will make a description for all this terminology a bit later). But for now, this is how you'll get faster and gain confidence, practice makes perfect!
Human/Friends/Friendlies: Even if it's only a smashfest, this is the time you put your hard earned skills to work. Now, remember, this isn't a tournament, there is no reason for you to try and prove anything here necessarily, as the atmosphere of a tournament is much thicker; So, you want to get out all your kinks now, and find out what works/doesn't work, and what needs to be tweaked. Ask to play some really good people, once you master how to fight against them, find diverse styles, the more styles and change-ups you know, the better prepared you'll be. Remember, mix up offense and defense; emphasis on grabbing and tech-chasing, and use of the COUNTER.
Edge guarding tactics: Going to tell you some tactics I use to edgeguard with Roy; Some of them (if not most of them) are all in the timing, and the reaction to the slight lag the game gives when you connect with a hit, or the duration of him within those frames of attacking before he can successfully recover. All of what I am going to say, WORKS. But, you may die if you don't get this down, PERFECT. So, Practice, practice, Practice!
"RagnaRoK" Edge guard: The Downsmash of Roy has the ability to knock people away from you diagonally upwards, or at a diagonal downward trajectory, kind of like jigglypuff's downsmash. You have to hit with the very tip, and this can be just enough for them to move far enough either to not grab the edge, for them to miss a sweet spot and you F-Smash, or you can simply edgehog them. It all depends on the situation, but this is definately an option. Should only be used if your opponent is low/Moderate damage and you're running and have to dash cancel a bit away and as a last minute effort to do some damage.
"Rarth" Edge guard: Basically, while holding onto the edge (As if you were edgehogging) and your opponent is coming downwards, at a height that is either even or a little below the stage within your range. You tap back, or down to let go to the edge, and quickly tap the jump button, and the control stick backwards nearly simutaneously to allow him to do his Bair and send them back. Immediately afterwards, do your Up B Diagonally to grab the stage. Very crucial t his is done ABOVE the stage (When Roy jumps) He doesn't have enough ups to make it back if he drops low to hit an opponent.
RoK's Spike: When a character is coming upwards from the stage and you're still hanging on the edge (Preferably, just grabbed the edge as you'll need the invincibility frames), Works better on Gannon, C.Falcon, Fox/Falco. When they're directly above you from going upwards to try and land upon the stage (Since you're edgehogging) What you do is Jump towards the stage and down your Dair as quickly as possible. If right, It'll spike them down at a faster rate than normal and should result in them dying. (Example is seen in Rebellion of Fire #2, I posted this technique up a while ago though, and people called it idiotic, but it's clearly do-able with proof, as are my other edgeguards). Also, if it doesn't work and manages to pop them up, if their damage is right, and you L-Canceled it, you will pop them up and can forward smash to setup for another edgeguard.
FireDrop: A basic Roy edgeguard, with actually two ways to do this. The first is basically you jump off the stage and hold the button and release to try and connect with a flair blade to push them back. You only do this on the first full hop, to allow a jump and your Up+B recovery to make it back to the edge. The second is intially you run to the edge of the stage and hold B and then release, you should slide off the stage. This Actually moves a good ways below the stage, and fairly easy to make it back if timed right. Can result in death if you don't know what you're doing.
Stage Flare Blade: Attempt to hit someone with the very tip of the Fair blade so it pushes them outwards when edgeguarding. However, you can also get close (Not too close) when you do it, because it can mess up Fox's/Falco's illusion edgegrabs, and can take care of Link before he even gets close enough. It's a good edgeguard that most people don't do because it's time consuming.
Counter: Roy's Down+B move (ROY COUNTERS ALL). This is good to use against Marth's, as it pushes them outwards and you can easily edgehog them, one very good thing about it. Also, can be used against FoxFire, and people like Shiek, who jumps from the edge and Fair's, or Captain Falcons who like to edgehop and Fair (Knee). Use this wisely as it doesn't have many active frames, and has a huge amount of time in actual lag, use sparingly, but try to connect when you do and they'll learn to FEAR this move.
D.E.D. (Double Edge Dance) Fourth input of the combination down: Say you're going against a Marth/Link/Shiek. This is a good move to use to attempt to push them back while staying a safe distance. Roy Lounges forward and stabs his sword multiple times, and it actually goes downwards and through the level a few times. This allows you to try and get the very tip to push them back. While allowing enough room to avoid attack (Or just get hit by the tips, which doesn't have all that much knockback). Sometimes can foil sweet spotted attempts, or if you just did it, can thrwart your adversaries wanting to try and jump off and attack you, as the attack had just now been intiiated.
Character Specifics: Going to go over some character specifics now. If you reached this section, you should've read everything above just incase I make a reference to something. This and other parts of my guide will be updating constantly, so you may want to scan back through the guide for improvements and recently uncovered information.
[A brief overview] = Roy should be played slightly aggressive in order to win, especially in his closer matchups. Work on L-Cancelling throughly, and using air attacks deep into your opponent, so you can L-Cancel and run behind them to a grab or DED if it misses, as people love to punish Roys with many shield grabs to combos. Spamming forward smash in certain situations CAN help you to win, against shiek's and others. Remember to use your side step (Down+R/L) wisely and to go for early kills, it being very hard to do so once they float away at nearly every tap Roy gives. Master shield grabbing, tech chasing, and Roy's overall movement, as well sa being able to sweet spot his Up+B vertically, and diagonally.
Fox McCloud: Fox is a Space Animal, which isn't very good for Roy. BUT. Of the two, Fox gives Roy the least amount of trouble. Reason?: No Pesky lasers which allow Roy more room to move, though he can be combo'd more by Fox than by Falco, but the possibility of escaping a combo to rack up damage is more apparently on Fox, than Falco. Roy has a good advantage in this match (As they are the few of the variety Roy can successfully combo/Chain throw). But he's still at a disadvantage, as he is with most of his match-ups.
Stages in Roy's Favor:Fountain of Dreams/Dreamland/Donkey Kong 64
Stages nuetral to both parties: Pokemon Stadium, Battlefield, Final Destination
Stages against Roys Favor: Yoshi stage
Stratedgy Synopsis.: Fox is the highest of all the top tiers, because he is not truly in a disadvantage against any character he may come up against; Roy being no exception. Though, in this match; As badly as Roy can take abuse, he can also dish it out nearly blow for Blow. Fox can be Chain throwed, D-tilted into grabs, Countered on his FoxFire recovery, as well as flare blade and nuetral A dropping him below the stage to setup for more edgeguards. I suggest watching out for throws from Fox, As upthrows MUST be DI'd, as he can juggle with multiple Uairs and can kill with them at early damage, as well as his upsmash. Being wave shine'd off the cliff when Fox is close to the edge, can also let him kill you with a shinespike, as you'll still be falling from the first shine as you can shine you again. I'll talk with you on how to avoid a good bit of this, and how to battle back.
Defensive Stratedgy: If Fox manages to shine you off the Cliff/Stage/Edge, you want to Up+B as quickly as you can. If you managed to get up Smashed, attempt SMASH DI'ING. This will save you if you can do it right. If you're hit with a sidewards smash, DI towards the stage diagonally up, to go as much as you can upwards, you want to avoid being sent horizontally or down. Crouch cancel works against everything pretty much against his shine, Down Tilt works well if you're being attacked and crouch cancelling. Platforms are your friend, learn to use them fast and quickly and confuse a Fox player, not many characters have the ability to actually stick with Fox toe-to-toe at low tier status. Start Shield grabbing to get him afraid to do anything to you (Watch out for the shine soon as he L-Cancels, it pops out the very first frame of the animation).
Offensive tactics: Fox can be chain throwed, DO NOT start off his life with trying to chain throw, as it is impossible to do so when he's 0%, wait till he gets to 10-15% before you start trying, he may actually DI into a forward smash to setup for an edgeguard/Early death scenario. Shield grabbing is key to punish him for being over-aggressive; And double edge dance should be in your main arsenal of attacks. DED combination B, Up+B, Side+B will nearly hit him every single time, no matter what damage he may be (Unless you get him up to crazy 200+ numbers). Counter works very, VERY well against him; it does ridiculous amounts of damage, so when he FireFox's, make him pay for that. You can use your nuetral A doing his Illusion to knock him below the stage, forcing him to FireFox right into your counter. You can also Flare blade to kill any sweet spotting attempts he may have with the move.
Effective combo's to use against this character:
(From 0% or up to about 7%)
1. Grab>Up-Throw>D-Tilt>Grab>up-Throw>Chain Throw into Forward Smash.
2. D-Tilt>Tech-Chase>Grab ( and hit)>Up-Throw into Forward Smash.
3. Fair>Grab(hit)>Up-Throw>D-Tilt>Fair>Forward Smash
4. Grab>F-Throw>Grab>( into # 3 from [Grab(hit)] or 2 from the same spot)
Over-View: Fox is still a high disadvantage for Roy, but with all he has against him, he nearly has against Fox. The only difference is, meta-game and all comes into play here; You can't be scared of high-tiers when you play, that's the big key to success when yu play Roy, if you think you're severly handicap a going in, YOU WILL BE. Positive mindset is key to overall victory.
[INCOMPLETE]
