Quitters Never Win: A Word of Inspiration

[Pi]

i almost made a 4 stock comeback in 2v1 today
never give up

almost, but not quite
which is why you should always give up when the odds are stacked against you



~~~~~
real talk though, you have to want it, as in YOU, have to want it, nobody can make you want it, anyone can be good at this game and if you think that you deserve to be better than you are because other people are and you think it's due to some innate ability that you lack, if you JOHN like that then realize it's just a john

ANYONE, can be good at this game, anyone can be great at this game, you must put in the work. The best way to get better is to ask questions, and when people give you answers, dissect those answers because even if they seem, at face value, to be incorrect, there is information there. Also, watch video's, and if you feel like you watch videos all the time and you've not been getting any better, then you are watching them wrong, and don't just watch video's of the best player of your character, everyone has stuff to offer, and watching 1 match of PP vs. armada may offer a lot of good information, but I promise you that watching randomfalco x vs. randompeach y has information to offer as well.

Watch videos, ask questions, start writing stuff down, failure to do this will result in a failure to progress.

If you thought that people just became gods of melee because they play a lot, you were sorely mistaken. It takes work to be a god, you don't just attain it by grinding matches.

 

[Divinokage]

Oh really? I just grinded matches to be where I'm at... really! I just went to tournaments and beat people up... That's how it is. I never watched videos, I only do it for entertainment since I can't really pick up anything from them.

 

[Massive]

In feel good threads of hopeless optimism, somebody has to play the devil's advocate. I love doing it, so here goes.

[BEGIN]

You can practice all day every day. You can play in tournaments and play with your friends constantly. You can become very good at this game by playing and practicing for years, but statistically speaking you will very likely never become great (as in pro).

In order to be very good at smash, you have to play people better than you. Sometimes people get screwed by the odds and are not born in a place where there are ample members of our minute sub-community (try most of the midwestern US or anywhere not in the US at all). You can become the best in your area. It's usually not super difficult (unless Darkrain lives there or something), but you will not be bringing home national tournament winnings unless you're somehow naturally gifted. Most naturally gifted people also practice as hard as the un-gifted, but they are already at an advantage. Unless they stop playing on their own, you couldn't catch most of them even if you rubbed your engine with cheetah blood.

You can only progress as far as your competition will lead you. The cumulative size and ability of a crew is a perfect measuring stick for how well a person from that crew could possibly progress in a tournament setting. Almost everyone quits because they feel stagnated; they may be the very best in their crews and realize that there is literally no where else to go, no more challenges they can accomplish without beginning to sacrifice the other parts of their life for a 10 year old game with almost no financial remuneration potential.

Most people will eventually come to such a realization. Maybe it will be something like having a kid or getting married. Maybe you'll get a job that will eat up more of your free time or leave you too tired to travel. You might be living easy off your parent's dime or some other "I'm in school" scenario right now, but realize those situations are far from permanent.

It's all probably not too far off now actually. The melee scene will start tapering off once its mean age passes the "college range" (it's already starting to happen, actually). It's far more likely that we will stop seeing as many tournaments rather than start seeing tournaments with stroller parking behind the setups.

Please enjoy the game as much as you can now, but keep in mind that no amount of effort will make it last forever.

[END DEVIL'S ADVOCACY PROGRAM]

 

[Divinokage]

You have to WANT IT BADLY! That's why you travel everywhere... if your competition is too **** for YOU then you can **** them and go to places where theres actually good players to play.. but not many is willing to do that. =P

 

[Massive]

You have to WANT IT BADLY! That's why you travel everywhere... if your competition is too **** for YOU then you can **** them and go to places where theres actually good players to play.. but not many is willing to do that. =P

It's not will that is an issue, I can think of very few people who are capable of just dropping everything and moving somewhere exclusively to play smash with other people.

You can want to be the best as much as you want, but if you do not have the logistics available to leave school/work and drive to some location where perfect competition frolicks all day, you are SOL. There are a large amount of smashers who don't even have their own car, let alone gas money to drive to wherever competition is.

 

[Divinokage]

It's not will that is an issue, I can think of very few people who are capable of just dropping everything and moving somewhere exclusively to play smash with other people.

You can want to be the best as much as you want, but if you do not have the logistics available to leave school/work and drive to some location where perfect competition frolicks all day, you are SOL. There are a large amount of smashers who don't even have their own car, let alone gas money to drive to wherever competition is.

And who's fault is that? Cmon now, by now.. everyone should have a job and should be able to travel to places, no ****ing johns. Stop being lazy basically. You could just travel to tournaments, that's all you really need.

 

[Massive]

And who's fault is that? Cmon now, by now.. everyone should have a job and should be able to travel to places, no ****ing johns. Stop being lazy basically. You could just travel to tournaments, that's all you really need.

Unemployment isn't attributable to laziness. The rate currently sits around 20% for the 18-24 demographic, and another 25% of those actually working are "underemployed" meaning they are not making a livable wage. We are in a recession, a random 23 year old smasher has to compete with 50 year old baby boomers for jobs that won't give them decent vacation or pay much more than minimum wage. It is hard to appear an attractive prospect vs someone with 20 years of management experience willing to work a low-paying second job for extra money to pay that second mortgage they decided to take out 4 years ago, trust me.

I'm not arguing against tournament experience making you better, I'm saying that it's not within everyone's means to do so.

Personally I don't have problems with (nearly any) of the stuff I've listed, but I am different in that I make smash come to me.

 

[VGmasta]

It's not will that is an issue, I can think of very few people who are capable of just dropping everything and moving somewhere exclusively to play smash with other people.

You can want to be the best as much as you want, but if you do not have the logistics available to leave school/work and drive to some location where perfect competition frolicks all day, you are SOL. There are a large amount of smashers who don't even have their own car, let alone gas money to drive to wherever competition is.

Quoted for truth. This is Zone's situation now and I almost gave up melee about a year ago because I didn't have enough time or money to keep up with the game. Gotta take care of priorities.

 

[Pi]

nope, i disagree w/ massive

M2K & PP

hard work > genius

 

[Divinokage]

Genius of hard work that means. Freaking Rock Lee, get that Naruto stuff out here. =P j/k.

 

[Massive]

Rock Lee is a terrible example.

His leg got mangled by one genius and he was an emo kid for a year until another genius who could fix his leg showed up.

The smash equivalent would be if you were humiliated by M2K and moped around until Mango randomly shows up and decides to give you free smash lessons.

 

[Pi]

Rock Lee is a terrible example.

His leg got mangled by one genius and he was an emo kid for a year until another genius who could fix his leg showed up.

The smash equivalent would be if you were humiliated by M2K and moped around until Mango randomly shows up and decides to give you free smash lessons.

sept rock lee was incapacitated and that can't happen in smash, if you think for a second that he wouldn't have worked his *** off if he could, which he still tried to do even though it was physically impossible for him to work through his injuries, you are mistaken

in smash the only limitations you have you put on yourself, being in an isolate part of the world w/ no other smashers around doesn't mean you can't improve in the same way you couldn't improve if your leg was mangled, it means you'll have to work harder to improve, and make every second of playing against another real life player count all the much more than those who take it for granted

 

[Divinokage]

Unemployment isn't attributable to laziness. The rate currently sits around 20% for the 18-24 demographic, and another 25% of those actually working are "underemployed" meaning they are not making a livable wage. We are in a recession, a random 23 year old smasher has to compete with 50 year old baby boomers for jobs that won't give them decent vacation or pay much more than minimum wage. It is hard to appear an attractive prospect vs someone with 20 years of management experience willing to work a low-paying second job for extra money to pay that second mortgage they decided to take out 4 years ago, trust me.

I'm not arguing against tournament experience making you better, I'm saying that it's not within everyone's means to do so.

Personally I don't have problems with (nearly any) of the stuff I've listed, but I am different in that I make smash come to me.

I don't care about statistics and all that crap. If you really want to make something happen, you will. Whatever situation you are in, it's your own fault. It's like you are saying certain smashers are going to be homeless people that can't take responsibility for their own self situation. Everyone is going to need to work at some point and these people WILL find work because they really want to and they will NEED to. (That's where the hunger comes from, the NEED to find something. ) I don't buy that ****, sorry.

 

[Massive]

I don't care about statistics and all that crap.

It's cool if you don't. I'll continue using them to be AWESOME, thanks.

If you really want to make something happen, you will. Whatever situation you are in, it's your own fault. It's like you are saying certain smashers are going to be homeless people that can't take responsibility for their own self situation. Everyone is going to need to work at some point and these people WILL find work because they really want to and they will NEED to. (That's where the hunger comes from, the NEED to find something. ) I don't buy that ****, sorry.

If someone maintains the college layabout attitude much past college they usually end up pretty close to homeless, yes. There are a lot of smashers like that, I've met them, I'm pretty sure you have too.

I won't disagree with you that you can overcome many things just by working at it. There are just some limitations that will make people no longer able to keep playing smash as much, regardless of how much they like it.

 

[Divinokage]

It's cool if you don't. I'll continue using them to be AWESOME, thanks.



If someone maintains the college layabout attitude much past college they usually end up pretty close to homeless, yes. There are a lot of smashers like that, I've met them, I'm pretty sure you have too.

I won't disagree with you that you can overcome many things just by working at it. There are just some limitations that will make people no longer able to keep playing smash as much, regardless of how much they like it.

Ya I guess so.. but I mean you still should not give up what you love to do.. =P

 

[ShroudedOne]

Whatever situation you are in, it's your own fault.

I'm sure you'd like to tell that to the victims of Katrina. Or to those who lost parents in 9/11, and were financially displaced because of it. Or to the victims of Haiti.

Extreme cases, obviously, but people can be laid off from their jobs, and have it not be their fault. Companies are laying off more workers every day, and it doesn't really matter if you are very good at what you do (unless you're invaluable to the company, which most people are not), companies have bills to pay, too. Less workers = more cash. This also means that they aren't really looking to hire, either.

To assume that people have full control over their lives doesn't take into account the fact that life itself is rather unpredictable.

 

[Pi]

kage lives in his own little warrior fantasy world where his opinions and warrior persona are still taken seriously and respected, not smirked at as humorous delusional past his prime warrior anecdotes

kage you talk too much go do something, same for me

 

[Divinokage]

I'm sure you'd like to tell that to the victims of Katrina. Or to those who lost parents in 9/11, and were financially displaced because of it. Or to the victims of Haiti.

Extreme cases, obviously, but people can be laid off from their jobs, and have it not be their fault. Companies are laying off more workers every day, and it doesn't really matter if you are very good at what you do (unless you're invaluable to the company, which most people are not), companies have bills to pay, too. Less workers = more cash. This also means that they aren't really looking to hire, either.

To assume that people have full control over their lives doesn't take into account the fact that life itself is rather unpredictable.

I never said you could control things that had to do with nature, I'm just saying you can always do something that is well within your reach... I'm not saying stop tornados. lol. Well... if you had that much power however then I would say that though. lol. That means apply to 100s of jobs if you have to! You can't blame your ****ty situation you are in, blame yourself for giving up... I hear a lot: "No matter how hard I try, I can't do it" And I say: "Well keep trying, the moment you stop means it's over for you."

kage lives in his own little warrior fantasy world where his opinions and warrior persona are still taken seriously and respected, not smirked at as humorous delusional past his prime warrior anecdotes

kage you talk too much go do something, same for me

Do what? I'm working right now and emitting my opinion is that so wrong and I play smash.. and I traveled to many many different places and I pay bills too.. if I can do it, I don't wanna hear no johns.

 

[ShroudedOne]

Well, what you said before sounded more along those lines. But I see what you're saying; constantly complaining about your situation instead of avidly trying to fix it won't solve anything. I agree. Some people just have it much harder than they might be able to cope with.

 

[Divinokage]

Hell, if my house gets destroyed, I'll just look for another... If I'm dead then I am.. lol, nothing I can do about that. But I get the impression people are too attached to what they have and gets depressed for no reason when they lose something they were attached to.. then they'll find excuses not to try anymore or should I say conceive themselves not to try. Ya sure it sucks to lose stuff but.. I mean life ALWAYS goes on and if you stop doing something then that means you stopped moving forward. You can't go back once something happened to you but you can always try to fix a problem you have for whatever you want to do. I just find it really sad that people don't live it all.. always finding something to ruin their day or make it worse.. idk, it's very odd to me since now I trained myself enough to not really get depressed anymore if something ****ty happens.. It's finding that need to keep going.. I'm not sure what else I can add... It's definitely not warrior BS, this is reality right now.. here..

 

[Palpi]

I am a huge advocate for personal responsibility, but I have to agree that not everything is in your control, therefore not personal.

 

[Sinji]

I remember last year when a smash crew from a game shop (area 51) were talking trash about my crew. Saying they were the best. Spamming post on the Jamaica thread like they were the self proclaimed best in Jamaica. Jr. ( a samus main was the best in their crew). I wasn't aware of this at the time. When my crew said wait till you see Sinji, They laughed. So Jr. was the only one that came over by our place, I heard something about Jr. being the best in Jamaica. So I was like " Yea I want to face him" because I always love competition.

So the match begins and I four stock him in the first match. I was disappointed. The first reason why I was disappointed was because he didn't know how to wavedash. The second reason why I was disappointed was because he didn't know how to get out of my pressure and I deliberately used the same tactics just to test him.

Second match, I JV four stock him and he was johning and everything.

The next week some more players from Area 51 showed up, but I was not their. My friends crushed them and they never showed their face ever again.

Instead of learning from us and increasing the Jamaican smash population, they whined like babies and quit smash.

Quitters never win.

 

[Biglard]

This september was the beginning of my fourth (and hopefully last) year in my school, and something I've noticed is that every new year brings a lot of self proclaimed best Melee players ever.

Last time I was challenged, the dude picked Falco and asked me if he could warm up a little bit. Generally, a self proclaimed best player in the world doesn't pick one of the best characters/the best character in the game, and doesn't need to warm up because, duh, he's the best player in the world, so I thought it might be interesting. I pick Ganon, we go FD, 5 stocks (why not?) and... He begins to roll around and do full hops dairs (not l cancelled).

And then I won our best of 9.

And then he never came back.

 

[ShroudedOne]

I would be interested in studying the switch in people's heads that go off in some, but not others, when it comes to either quitting something that you're shown you are no good at, or sticking with it, even though you suck, and are getting handled.

When I came from Brawl last year, I was godawful, and every friendly I had showed that. I was mostly aware of how bad I was. But here I am, a year later, still on my "Melee honeymoon," if you will.

Was it my knowledge of my horrible skill that allowed me to face the reality of things better, and strive for improvement? Is it simply easier for me to handle defeat than others? Am I just ridiculously stubborn? Or is there something different between the ways that people like Melee?

I'd like to conduct a social experiment on quitters.

 

[Zone]

Just FYI I have a great paying job and school. I'd be a fool to quit both of those things just to play smash at the level I wish to play it as.

I love smash alot but risk living like poop isn't worth it the fun. I like financial security over playing smash.

Just a shame I cant have both.

 

[VGmasta]

Just FYI I have a great paying job and school. I'd be a fool to quit both of those things just to play smash at the level I wish to play it as.

I love smash alot but risk living like poop isn't worth it the fun. I like financial security over playing smash.

Just a shame I cant have both.

It's what happens since there's only 24 hours in a day.

 

[Divinokage]

Just FYI I have a great paying job and school. I'd be a fool to quit both of those things just to play smash at the level I wish to play it as.

I love smash alot but risk living like poop isn't worth it the fun. I like financial security over playing smash.

Just a shame I cant have both.

Well when you are done school, make it happen. =P