Questions about Advanced Tactics and Other Things

[Acton]

Hey I've recently bought a Wii in the hopes of becoming a competitive brawl player. I just made a introduction topic in conjunction with this topic to introduce myself. Check it out at:

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=8835499#post8835499

Well anyway I have some general questions that I hope can help me improve my game play. Some of them cover Advanced Tactics found in this guide; http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=221988 and some of them include just general game play information. I'll go over the most basic questions first and then go over some of my more complicated questions.

The first and very most basic question I have in my opinion is about "Button Control", that is a tendency among new players to just "smash buttons continuously". Its a bad habit of mine that I've noticed. In 4 player brawl sessions I'll miss an attack and I'll keep trying to do it. Or with laser I'll keep hitting the B button. I've noticed this when I was practicing how to SHDL. I had to think about only pressing the B button twice, and not just smash the b button continuously. Also smashing buttons usually gets me knocked off the side and I'll be doing some arial attack while I'm falling which gets me killed. Does anyone have any suggestion for practicing how to control my tendency to "smash buttons"? It seems to have a lot to do with timing.

Also I seem to do much better in 1 vs 1 matches with friends irl then I do in 4 player brawl matches. Its harder to focus on everything going on in a 4 player match then a 1 vs 1 match. Most of the videos I've checked out on youtube are usually 1 vs 1 matches not 4 player matches. This is pretty critical since most of the time when I'm trying to "Chain Grab" its interrupted pretty quickly by another player. It seems a fair amount of the tactics included in above guide seem to be less useful in 4 player matches. As a falco player how should I behave in multi man brawls vs 1 vs 1 brawls?

My next question concerns button configuration and other sub questions involved with this general topic. The first question I have is am I allowed to re-configure the button setup at tourneys? Wether they are wifi/or rl? I've had tap jump disabled to get used to X Y jumping. I used to use tap jump all the time but since I've learned about short hopping its like a whole new world of brawl has opened up to me. xD

My next question involving button configuration has to do with "Boost Smashing",

"To perform this, turn tap jump off. The idea is to do a dash attack (I dash and then use down-c to initiate the dash attack) and then immediately up smash (I use Z + up on the analog stick)"

I have tried this technique plenty of times after seeing it on youtube and I can't seem to get the hang of it. I've always used smash techs by holding a and using the analog stick simulatenously. I can't get the hang of how to use charge smashes with the Z button and the anolog stick, and I don't really understand what he mans by down-c to initiate the dash attack. Does he hold Z and press down on the c stick simutaneously to charge the smash dash attack? I have no idea with this.

Another question I have regards "Input Buffering" It seems an easy enough concept to master while in the air, but I can't seem to get the hang of it on the ground, and more importantly how to impliment this concept in my fighting. Its hard to demonstrate in videos and I think its a concept best demonstrated in real time by someone wishing to maybe tutor me in this concept. But if someone can maybe articulate the principle more eloquently then in the above guide it would be much appreciated.

My last question regards how to cancel falcos "Illusion" tech. I've done it plenty of times in matches that I've played but never on purpose. I can clearly understand the benefits to this technique but I can't seem to get the hang of it. It instructs me to press the b button at the correct time to cancel the attack but can't seem to get it to work properly for me.

Also any other general suggestions would be appreciated. It seems there is a lot of information in the above guide, and I feel there must be some hierarchy to it, that is that there must be certain skills that you need to master before you can move onto others. IF anyone could maybe instruct me what skills, basic or advanced, I should try to work on first and then what I should move onto later would really help me out.

Also my friend code, and any other contact info is in my profile info. I don't expect people to answer all of these questions just answer whatever you can.

Thanks,
Acton

 

[Matador]

lol @ 10 people clicking the thread, looking at the low post count and recent join date, going "awww...**** all this reading..." Then leaving again.

4 player brawls are rather silly in this community and aren't taken too seriously unless they're teams matches, and yes, you can reconfigure your controller to your liking at tourneys.

 

[demonictoonlink]

^
I was going to do this, but I don't wanna be too predictable.

Regarding DAC, seriously, it just takes practice. Try Snake first. His is easier.

 

[Kewkky]

lol @ 10 people clicking the thread, looking at the low post count and recent join date, going "awww...**** all this reading..." Then leaving again.

I hate those kinds of stupid assumptions. I went in here to help him out, but realized it was a huge wall of text, and finding the questions between all those sentences was hard. After realizing his stuff was mainly about Falco, I decided to let other people who are more knowledgeable on Falco handle his questions. And to not just make a one-liner saying they're in the wrong place while not answering his questions (which would fall under being off-topic), I decided to not raise my post count and leave without replying.

I think no one looks down on people with low post counts. If I were to make another account with a different name and say all the stuff I still say on topics I find the time to reply to, I don't doubt I would still get people to say stuff like "Hmm, that sounds logical", or answer my questions, or even believe I play Brawl competitively... That assumption has to stop (the "people look down on newcomers with low post counts" assumption).

 

[Matador]

I hate those kinds of stupid assumptions. I went in here to help him out, but realized it was a huge wall of text, and finding the questions between all those sentences was hard. After realizing his stuff was mainly about Falco, I decided to let other people who are more knowledgeable on Falco handle his questions. And to not just make a one-liner saying they're in the wrong place while not answering his questions (which would fall under being off-topic), I decided to not raise my post count and leave without replying.

I think no one looks down on people with low post counts. If I were to make another account with a different name and say all the stuff I still say on topics I find the time to reply to, I don't doubt I would still get people to say stuff like "Hmm, that sounds logical", or answer my questions, or even believe I play Brawl competitively... That assumption has to stop (the "people look down on newcomers with low post counts" assumption).

That's not an assumption, it's human nature. Your post count, join date, username, name color and avatar (to a lesser extent) represents your status and who you are. No matter how much you want to self-righteously think that you don't instantly weigh the worth of a person's opinion next to their status in the community (especially THIS community), you automatically do the minute you look at his name.

The right thing to do is to accept this and not let it influence the way that you respond to people too much. You successfully did that. Not everybody does.

If you reply, PM me or do it on my visitor's thing.

 

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

I dunno, I actually decided to read it when I saw that he used proper punctuation and grammar. That's more important to whether or not I read something than post count is.

Also, you definitely shouldn't be mashing buttons. It's better to plan out your attacks and know why you're using X attack than randomly throwing stuff out there.

 

[saviorslegacy]

I am loling at the various comments in here. While none are rude I find their contents amusing.

Anyways, check here for more Falco related Questions: http://www.smashboards.com/forumdisplay.php?f=173

Anyways.... "HEY, and welcome to smash world forums!" I'm saviorslegacy, but most call me SL or savior (I at first HATED being called savior. Then I got used to it.)
I hope you have a pleasant stay.

To DAC easier just set L/R to attack. It is worth it.
That way it is like: (when going right) dash right> c-stick down> analog up + L (or R)
To cancel the Phantasm just hit B really fast. You will learn how to cancel it eventually.

Here are a few words of advise:
Always use the Q&A for questions/new discoveries.
If you found something new, triple check to see if it is new.....

 

[Baro]

If you found something new, triple check to see if it is new.....

Something you certainly have applied, right?

 

[Aibou]

To DAC easier just set L/R to attack. It is worth it.
That way it is like: (when going right) dash right> c-stick down> analog up + L (or R)

Z works pretty well as the attack button of choice too doesn't it? I find even Sheik's DAC easier with Z, though I haven't tried L or R.

 

[zeldspazz]

Something you certainly have applied, right?

I lold

SL has done so much that people take for granted though <3

 

[ndayday]

Also smashing buttons usually gets me knocked off the side and I'll be doing some arial attack while I'm falling which gets me killed. Does anyone have any suggestion for practicing how to control my tendency to "smash buttons"? It seems to have a lot to do with timing.

@1st sentence; That's probably buffer frames. Basically, there is a small window (10 frames, a frame is 1/60th of a second) at the end of moves that allow you to input another move, and that move will come out as soon as possible. While generally good, it can screw you over on an offstage situation.

@1st question: Think about what you're doing. A huge part of Brawl is thinking, reacting, punishing...yeah. Most people will say you have to know the matchup well (which is true), but you really have to know your character before you can play. That means knowing what moves do what, what moves put you in bad positions, etc. Basically, think about what you need to do next time you play a match, and don't be like "omg spam fsmash get awaayawyaywa". In no way is that supposed to offend you.

As a falco player how should I behave in multi man brawls vs 1 vs 1 brawls?

Spam short hopped lasers, although that'll probably get your opponents teaming up on you. I'd say just stay away, don't jump into the ****, don't chaingrab unless you know you won't be punished, and really just use your moves wisely. No, up-special is not an offensive attack.

My next question concerns button configuration and other sub questions involved with this general topic. The first question I have is am I allowed to re-configure the button setup at tourneys? Wether they are wifi/or rl? I've had tap jump disabled to get used to X Y jumping. I used to use tap jump all the time but since I've learned about short hopping its like a whole new world of brawl has opened up to me. xD

Although already answered, yes. It's all about what works for you.

Another question I have regards "Input Buffering"...

Read the first response I gave you.

My last question regards how to cancel falcos "Illusion" tech. I've done it plenty of times in matches that I've played but never on purpose. I can clearly understand the benefits to this technique but I can't seem to get the hang of it. It instructs me to press the b button at the correct time to cancel the attack but can't seem to get it to work properly for me.

Do another illusion immediately after your first one. Maybe two times. You have to do it fast.

I hope I didn't get ninja'd.
But by all means, check out the Falco boards in Character Discussion. Ask any more questions you have in the Q&A, and just look around.

Hope I helped a bit.

 

[Acton]

The comment about changing the button config for DAC really helped me out thanks. I've been able to pull this tech off about 75% of the time I want to use it in training mode now, with a little more practice I should be able to master the tech. >P

 

[saviorslegacy]

Something you certainly have applied, right?

I learned that through trial and error. lol

The only problem with finding something new is that the AT thread only has maybe half of the AT's listed and the search feature either doesn't work or it gives you stupid discussion threads that lead you to know where.
Google sucks at finding these things out and youtube is even worse than that.

The only thing you can usually do is ask another person. If the AT is little known I usually don't find any evidence to support it.

Z works pretty well as the attack button of choice too doesn't it? I find even Sheik's DAC easier with Z, though I haven't tried L or R.

If you can DACUS with Sheik using Z you are better than me. (I am a poet.)

I lold

SL has done so much that people take for granted though <3

7,7

 

[Blackrider213]

Z works pretty well as the attack button of choice too doesn't it? I find even Sheik's DAC easier with Z, though I haven't tried L or R.

I'm curious if your tap jump is on or off. I certainly can't do Sheik's DACUS with Z, and so I had to switch my R button to attack. But since you're able to do it with Z, my hypothesis is that you have tap jump off, while mine is on. This could make a difference. When I do it, and I'm pretty sure I have the timing down, I end up doing a boost grab.

 

[Aibou]

I'm curious if your tap jump is on or off. I certainly can't do Sheik's DACUS with Z, and so I had to switch my R button to attack. But since you're able to do it with Z, my hypothesis is that you have tap jump off, while mine is on. This could make a difference. When I do it, and I'm pretty sure I have the timing down, I end up doing a boost grab.

My tap jump is most definitely off. Can't stand tap jump. And Z seems easier to me than any other button (tried L and R, Z still seems easier). I guess it's just my style. I used Z as attack and Y as grab. It took a minute to get used to but it was worth it once I finally started DACUS...ing(?)

 

[Kitamerby]

For SHDL, a good trick is to remember to start lasering only once you reach the peak of your jump. You can start off mashing B, but in time, I'm sure you'll get the timing down. It just takes practice. It'd probably also help to press B the second time a little after you see the first laser fire to buffer it. You can press the laser 10 frames early and it'll still fire properly. Don't count on this, though.

For custom controls, custom controls are generally A-OK at any tournament. However, you should probably put your tag on the wiis before your matches start so that the tournament can run faster.

 

[Blackrider213]

My tap jump is most definitely off. Can't stand tap jump. And Z seems easier to me than any other button (tried L and R, Z still seems easier). I guess it's just my style. I used Z as attack and Y as grab. It took a minute to get used to but it was worth it once I finally started DACUS...ing(?)

This could explain why I can't DACUS using Z. You have tap jump off and I have tap jump on. I'm not sure why it makes it a difference, but I'll try it out when I get a chance.

@Savior: Is your tap jump on or off?

 

[fullynick]

This could explain why I can't DACUS using Z. You have tap jump off and I have tap jump on. I'm not sure why it makes it a difference, but I'll try it out when I get a chance.

@Savior: Is your tap jump on or off?

he also said that he set z to attack. which is the same as using r anyway

 

[Blackrider213]

Not necessarily. I have tried Dacusing with Sheik using both Z and R. My only success has been with R. However, my tap jump is on. Aibou has his tap jump off, and is able to do Dacusing with Z. My hypothesis is that you can Dacus with Z for Sheik when you have tap jump off. You can't do it when you have tap jump on, or that's at least my hypothesis.

Edit: Did a very quick test, and my hypothesis is partially correct. While I was able to Dacus using tap jump off and Z set to attack, I was able to Dacus with tap jump on and Z set to attack. Conclusion: To Dacus with Sheik using Z, Z must be set to attack. Tap jump has no effect on the outcome. Unfortunately, I can't basically "prove" it to you all and show you a video, so you would have to take me at my word.

So, I believed the reason that Aibou can Dacus with Sheik using Z is because both his tap jump off is off and he has set Z to attack. For me, my setting is to still have Z as a grab, R set to attack, and tap jump on. While I can Dacus with the other normal Dacusing characters using Z and my current format, I cannot do it with Sheik. For this reason, I have to set R to attack and Dacus using R instead of Z. I bet this is because the timing is so much faster than other characters, when using Z as a grab, the game interprets such quick commands as a grab since grab is the primary command.

Anyways, going into the specific mechanics is not the point, and I doubt I would accurately describe it correctly. Back to the main point. Aibou's current control scheme provides a way for Sheik using the Z button. There are two differences in his control scheme compared to mine. As I mentioned earlier, are Z's are set to different modes, as well as the tap jumps.

I first set my tap jump to off, had Z set to grab, and R set to attack. I attempted several times to Dacus with Sheik using Z. I had no success, and in response, I attempted to use R. After a few tries, I successfully Dacused with Sheik using R, but could not do using Z.

My second test was to set tap jump to on, have Z set to attack, and R set to attack. This time, I was able to Dacus with Sheik using Z. Based on these two experiments, Sheik Dacusing could be based on two factors. The first is whether Z is set to attack or grab. The other is whether tap jump is on or off.

My third test eliminated the tap jump variable. I set tap jump to off, had Z set to attack, and R set to attack. Like the second test, I was able to Dacus with Sheik using Z. Therefore, from these three tests, to Dacus with Sheik using Z, Z must be set to attack instead of grab. As I stated earlier, I don't know why this must be, but I think it's based on the strict and very fast timing of the input commands compared to the timing of other character Dacuses such as Snake.

tl;dr

Basically, you can Dacus with Sheik using Z, only if Z is set to attack instead of grab. Tap jump has no effect.

 

[Aibou]

Exactly right blackrider. My Z is set to attack, my tap jump is off, and my grab is set to Y. It's much easier for me but it might not work for everyone. This way just suits my style.

 

[Blackrider213]

Well, at least your style works for you, and that's the only thing that matters. I was just trying to figure out what are the necessary changes in the button control layout in order to Dacus with Sheik using Z. Thanks to your input about your control layout, we've found the answer.

 

[Aibou]

Well, at least your style works for you, and that's the only thing that matters. I was just trying to figure out what are the necessary changes in the button control layout in order to Dacus with Sheik using Z. Thanks to your input about your control layout, we've found the answer.

Glad I could be of service then

 

[ErikG]

Whenever I practice a new tech, I go into training mode and start at 1/2 speed. Slowing things down can be really helpful. Especially for techs that require faster inputs (Sheik's DACUS, Illusion Canceling, etc...). Practice mode is really good for these things.

 

[gm jack]

The trouble is Sheik's DACUS is so fast that you really just have to go by muscle memory, and not through timing it, if that make sense. You have to input the Usmash either 2 or 3 frames after the dash attack. I doubt most people can realistically think about the timings when it is that quick.

 

[Acton]

Yeah thats how I was able to get dacus down with falco. "Muscle Memory". I did it like a thousand times and its still hard for me to explain, its kind of like I have to initiate the up smash when the c stick is tilted but not all the way down yet. But I can just feel it in my fingers as far as how to dacus goes.