Question for all TO's

[Justin Wiles]

This can be yes/no or you can elaborate. I'm not asking about the morality of this, but you can express that too if you feel strongly about it.

- Do you make any sort of profit from hosting tournaments?

- Is tournament hosting a business opportunity?

Thank you.

 

[da K.I.D.]

Are you talking to TOs or venue hosts?

ill answer for both for the tourneys that I run.

- Do you make any sort of profit from hosting tournaments?
Yes, I make a small amount of money from TOing and yes the Venue makes money as well

- Is tournament hosting a business opportunity?
Uhhh... For a TO, it CAN be a business oppurtunity, albeit a really bad one. I personally believe that for all the effort a person puts into running a tournament, they should be compensated for it. Its hard work, and a lot of the time its dealing with people that can get very rowdy and dont like to listen. Not to mention the fact that the TOs that do make money make relatively little. If you arent totally engrossed and in love with your comunnity, the money that you make from running a tourney is not going to be worth the time, and effort you are going to put in.

For a venue, such as a LAN center, its definitely a business oppurtunity since LAN centers are pretty much the best (and for the most part, only) place where you can hold something like a video game tournament. since those places are already engrained pretty deep in the video game community of the area it makes it a lot smoother and easier to run a tourney there as opposed to something like a hotel ballroom with people that dont necessarily love the idea of an event with 40-200 teenagers and having to work out intracate business details with somebody of that age range.

And any Lan center needs to bring in a pretty high amount of cash on a regular basis in order to keep its doors open and running tournaments can be a great way to do that.

 

[KnightMare516]

Yes to both but not all the time. I hosted to make money in the end yes but i did it for the love of the game and community. We dont make profit all the time either. Sometimes some people feel responsible to keep the community alive so we take control and host. i dont think the money tho we walk away with in profit is worth the stress sometimes of gettin people to do what they gotta do and dealing with people complaining about the brackets every 2 seconds. I rather have gotten just a normal job, but i still miss hosting sometimes.

 

[metalmonstar]

Maybe if someone else paid for the venue and you got hired to run the event you could make alright money off of that. Unless you run the venue and have supplemental ways to earn revenue through and without tournaments, you aren't going to be making much of a profit. From my experience, I break even most times but not too much more. Having a "partner" also makes it a lot harder to earn income.

I think if you are smart and business savvy, you can find ways to make money through tournaments by doing or selling extra things at the event. If you are a good host you can get 20-40 people pretty regularly. Having that kind of following means that there has to be some money making opportunity there. Venue fee is not it, I can tell you that right now.

Lan centers are tough. If you know a lot of people, have a good swaying power, and/or have good marketing strategy then you can make it successful. Most new business fail. I also think at times tournaments also cost big Lan centers money. You just have to check your options and research.

 

[Exalador]

- Do you make any sort of profit from hosting tournaments?
Nope... I could make some profit from hosting tourneys, but not too much. Personally I think it's not right to make a profit from these tournaments. People should host these tournaments out of love for the game and the community. I started out as a host because there weren't a lot of tourneys here and wanted to do my fair share to get the tourney-scene rolling. I still host tournaments, still without any personal financial gain whatsoever.

Just to clarify though: I can understand why some people want to make some money hosting tourneys. It a lot of work and can be really stressfull, so I can't blame them.

- Is tournament hosting a business opportunity?
As said in the above posts: it can be a business opportunity, but you gotta be smart and business savvy to pull it off.

 

[Slhoka]

- Do you make any sort of profit from hosting tournaments?
Nope... I could make some profit from hosting tourneys, but not too much. Personally I think it's not right to make a profit from these tournaments. People should host these tournaments out of love for the game and the community. I started out as a host because there weren't a lot of tourneys here and wanted to do my fair share to get the tourney-scene rolling. I still host tournaments, still without any personal financial gain whatsoever.

Just to clarify though: I can understand why some people want to make some money hosting tourneys. It a lot of work and can be really stressfull, so I can't blame them.

Same thing for me. My aim when hosting an event is not to lose money nor win any. With other French smashers, we've created an voluntary association, and when we have some money left after a tournament, this money goes on this association's bank account so we can reinvest it in the next tourmament(s).

- Is tournament hosting a business opportunity?

You'd have to do more than one game, and frequent really big events. To be quite honest, I think it would be very hard to turn this into a viable business.

 

[AlphaZealot]

1. I do not pay venue/entry fees, so it saves me ~$25 by hosting a tournament instead of attending one. All the venue fees at tournaments I host though go to the venue (not me) so in terms of "profit" I make none.
2. Yes, hosting tournaments can be a business opportunity and you should treat your tournaments as if you are running a business.

 

[Lawrencelot]

I run 20-man tourneys every now and then, and all the money goes into the prize pot. Except that I don't pay any money for the events, but I also buy some food and drinks. In the end, I either lose a few cents or gain a few cents (because food and drinks don't cost exactly 10€ or something, which is the amount I don't pay for the events, and there's a bit of electricity costs as well), but all in all I don't make any profit.

 

[Exalador]

Same thing for me. My aim when hosting an event is not to lose money nor win any. With other French smashers, we've created an voluntary association, and when we have some money left after a tournament, this money goes on this association's bank account so we can reinvest it in the next tourmament(s).

Exactly what we are doing with the Dutch smash organisation right now. If there is money left (ie all costs are covered, and there is some money left from the collected venuefees) it either goes to the prizepool or it is saved by the organisation to invest in the community (TVs etc) or to do some extra stuff at the next tournament

 

[Justin Wiles]

Thank you so much for the responses so far!

AZ, that is interesting, I've all ways payed the entry fee to my own tournaments, but we are typically in the 30-40 range of attendees, and we have a team of 4 guys that cooperate to run these events, so losing that much out of the pot might not fly. However, it also seems (in our community) that players watch the TO's rather closely; I recall a situation in which we were accused of trying to skim money off the top, which we did, and in turn bought a TV and paid for cab rides for some of our organizers. For some reason, the idea that we'd take anything home with us after the tournament was criminal...

 

[X1-12]

I'm not a TO but I feel it should be pointed out that if you DO try to run tournaments as a business, and make large amounts of money from it, there may be other people in the community who would do a similar thing but taking less or no profit. And people would probably much rather go to a tourney were all the money stays in the community. I don't expect people will mind you taking a small cut though

 

[AlphaZealot]

I have always been very open that I do no pay the fees of tournaments I run. If anyone has a problem I simply tell them they should try to run their own tournaments and when they do they can decide whether or not to pay entry into something they created. Currently I'm only running local tournaments in the 20-35 person range. I look at it
like this-
-For every tournament I purchase ~$15 worth of stuff out of my own pocket (not venue money, ALL venue money I get goes to the organization I promised it to, except maybe $10 that I give to the 4th place team in doubles and maybe another $5 that I give to someone who helped me here and there during the day). The stuff I buy out of pocket for every tournament is
-10 pens
-2 large poster boards
-1 3-input outlet multiplier (I now have like 10 of these things lol)
-Sharpies (why do these always get lost )
-Tape

The pens, tape, and sharpies wouldn't be recurring expenses if I could manage not to lose the stuff between events. I've gotten better with the tape/sharpies but pens are stupid for some reason. Regardless, I put my own money into the events and the only thing I get out of it is free entry (maybe free food). Also, the biggest thing a TO puts into a tournament is TIME. It takes time to set up. Time to break down. Time to make a thread, contact a venue, get a deal worked out, get the rules worked out, keep an eye on your thread to answer questions, etc etc. I think the best incentive for a TO who doesn't want to make a profit (me) is simply getting free entry.

At Delta Upsilon III here is how the venue fee stuff worked (IIRC)
There were 25 people who payed the venue fee
-I payed $5 to two people for random help they did for me
-I payed $10 to the 4th place team in doubles
-I took $10 out to buy two 12-packs of soda, which I resold and made the $10 back (no profit)
-I took out $30 for pizza which I resold and made about $15 profit, of which I gave this to the venue since I used the venue money to buy the pizza, not my own personal money)
-The venue received $105 + $15 = $120

Now if I ran tournaments out of my apartment or something that would be money I could keep, and I know a couple TO's who have that situation and they can do that, but for me I don't mind having the money go to the place that is letting me hold the tournament.

---
I've built up a nice collection of stuff to:
-~10 3-input 6/9 foot extension cords
-4 surge protectors withe 6-8 inputs each, one cord is 15 feet the rest are about 5-10
-1 extension cord (I need more of these)
-5 converters (allows 2 prong inputs to become 3 prong inputs)

All and all I have the equiptment now to get power to 8-10 setups. This is perfect for 20-35 person events.

AZ, that is interesting, I've all ways payed the entry fee to my own tournaments, but we are typically in the 30-40 range of attendees, and we have a team of 4 guys that cooperate to run these events, so losing that much out of the pot might not fly. However, it also seems (in our community) that players watch the TO's rather closely; I recall a situation in which we were accused of trying to skim money off the top, which we did, and in turn bought a TV and paid for cab rides for some of our organizers. For some reason, the idea that we'd take anything home with us after the tournament was criminal...

I've seen this a lot. Was the money you "skimmed off the top" from the pot or from the venue fee, or do you not have a separate fee for the venue? This should be your first area of concern, if you keep the pot and the venue fee separate you will cut down on the anxiety people will have with money. The venue fee they assume will go to 1 of 3 places
-The venue that is allowing the tournament to happen
-The pocket of the TO as profit
-Money re-invested so the next tournament will have better/more equiptment

I would recommended, if you don't already, that you seperate out the venue fee from the singles/doubles entry fee. That way there is no confusion about the size of the pot.

I would also be up-front and honest with people. Straight up tell them you are taking X amount for Y/Z if you plan to take money out. I would also tell them this before the event (just make a post in your thread).

EDIT: Okay I found your last tournament I think: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=214557

And for this you simply have $10 for singles and $10 for doubles listed. If I read the OP I would assume that money would all go straight to the pot (and not be used for anything else). If you want to keep this same structure and not use a venue fee, then I would suggest doing the percent system. My crew and I used this back in Melee for the BOMB series. Essentially announce in the thread that X% of the pot will be taken as a fee. I would recommend no more then 10%, maybe %15. For the BOMB series we took 10% of the pot and gave it to the church that let us hold the tournament as a donation. The advantage of this system is that you don't make your attendees pay more like may happen if you adopt the $10, $10, venue fee of $1-$5/$10 system.

 

[da K.I.D.]

For some reason, the idea that we'd take anything home with us after the tournament was criminal...

I could link you to the social thread for my region where exactly this happened.

The fact of the matter is that I feel that if you do a job (run a tourney) you should be compensated for it.
I think (actually, I KNOW) that a lot of people that simply attend tourneys dont take the time to put on the other guys shoes and look at things from the perspective of the TO/Venue owner. and as such, they only look at things in terms of how it relates to them instead of how it relates to everybody involved, which leads to a skewed idea of how things should work.

its not just pot money, but things like the actual venue itself, and the difference phases of time money and energy that go into a production such as this.

 

[camden]

AZ: That tournament was from over a year ago. All of our newer ones are up on AIB, though.

da K.I.D.: As much as we want to walk out of there with a few bucks on our hands, it just doesn't feel right to us. As it us, we put quite a bit to our venue and such. If we were to take anymore, it'd leave the pot to scraps, and we are doing this for the players and the fun. At least I think that's why you started them, right Justin?

 

[Solid Jake]

- I have made profit running events, and i have lost money running events . There are alot of fee's and factors that are involved but if you want to run BIG tournaments i will say you have ot have a passion for it and do it with those who you can trust. Be sure to purchase a safe or rent one for the money because I had over $1000 stolen at an event (which we still paid out 100%)

-Is it a business opportunity? I strongly say yes, that is my drive when it comes to running tournaments. It is my biggest passion in my life and I have begun working at conventions for pay and volunteer work. I will be helping run events at PAX East next weekend and will be running smash at Game Underground 2010 this June. Making a full blown business out of it is easier said than done though. I started a circuit in 2008 called the East Coast Regional Circuit It was a solid time commitment but above all it simply ended up costing a lot more than paying and again I lost money with it between website costs , equipment, and travel. I guess the best way to fix that would be sponsors, but with MLG back on board with our community I have no desire to continue my circuit currently. In the end as long as you work hard i don't think theres anything wrong with making some money off a tournament. Share it with those who deserve it, and everyone wins.