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Queen of the Underworld: Vote for Medusa's Homecoming Party!

Burigu

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Oh, my bad. I was sure it was part of the underworld army, as Hades place one during the Aurum Arc.
Yes it's strange I remembered that part too, they also appear in Thunder Cloud Temple and if I remember correctly there is no Underworld monters in the foot part, I agree that they look like Underworld Army minions
 

Erotic&Heretic

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Yes it's strange I remembered that part too, they also appear in Thunder Cloud Temple and if I remember correctly there is no Underworld monters in the foot part, I agree that they look like Underworld Army minions
I think this misconception comes also from the facts that we see them early in the game, where we are only against the Underworld Army, and that they are the only unaffiliated ennemies that are not bosses in the game (not considering Souflee and Treasurefish as ennemies, they are more some targets :troll:)
 

Aurora Jenny

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I was scared at first. I almost thought that was on the Palutena's Temple stage, but it's just either a Smash Run enemy or on that reset bomb stage for the 3DS. Not sure which.
It's the Reset Bomb Forest. You can see the background in the bottom left corner.
 

Erotic&Heretic

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It's the Reset Bomb Forest. You can see the background in the bottom left corner.
It also makes sense to be on a regular stage, being a OHKO monster, but I guess they can be on both Smash Run and Reset Bomb Forest.

I wonder how percentages and KOs will affect the smash run mode. It will probably make the player loose a lot of his bonuses, like in Kirby Air Ride (when the vehicule was destroyed).
 

majora_787

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It's the Reset Bomb Forest. You can see the background in the bottom left corner.
Well, whatever works. Ornes gonna Orne in the reset bomb forest then. As long as the temple stage doesn't have instant kill enemies flying around it, that's all I care about.
 

Erotic&Heretic

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Well, whatever works. Ornes gonna Orne in the reset bomb forest then. As long as the temple stage doesn't have instant kill enemies flying around it, that's all I care about.
The Temple seems quite peaceful, if we except that huge spiky ball. It's just waiting for Medusa's invasion :awesome:
 

majora_787

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Honestly, I feel like people who say they "can't see her as anything but a semi-clone of Palutena" are the reason Captain Ganondorf exists.
Probably. Any character can be a clone of anyone you want if you avoid thinking hard enough. What's more astonishing is when people think what they can perceive for moveset potential as individuals has any impact on what the developers can do, feel like they can't do, and have already done.
 

Yomi's Biggest Fan

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Honestly, I feel like people who say they "can't see her as anything but a semi-clone of Palutena" are the reason Captain Ganondorf exists.
I can already see Dark Link and Dark Pit happening by this logic. :troll:
 

majora_787

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We get Dark Pit and Dark Link in a joint moveset which is a clone of Captain Falcon all because people on Smashboards can't think of a moveset for Medusa when they don't try to think of a moveset for Medusa.
 

IsmaR

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On that note, since Dark Samus already kicked the proverbial bucket (just looking at what she does as a simple assist is all the proof I needed that she could've been vastly different), I'm going for broke with Medusa being the last "dark" character* I support. Darkness being more than just a moniker, rather a spellcaster/villain that "mirrors" her light counterpart (without being a clone, of course).

*Assuming Ganondorf's Captain's license hasn't expired.
 

Erotic&Heretic

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Aaah, the "Medusa can only be a semi-clone"...

Guess those people also think Dark Pit can be an original character because of Uprising's Weapons, and that Magnus would be absolutely original by having his moveset in an item because Sakurai already invented Movesets before. :troll:
Every character can be original, as much as every character can be a clone if you are lazy.

Some are just more original than other.
 

DustyPumpkin

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Never got the whole "Medusa might be a semi-clone"
Everyone seems to think she'll have Palutena's moves only using Darkness?
You can't use darkness in place of light, you don't have "Pillars of Darkness" in the same vein you have Pillars of Light, that's weird.
 

majora_787

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Beyond that, I don't really get why people even say "Medusa would have to be a clone of Palutena" because Medusa's potential is more thematically diverse from the rest of the roster than Palutena's is. So I mean if everyone has to be a semi-clone of someone, Medusa would probably end up unique while Palutena goes to be a semi-clone of Zelda or something lame like that.

But really I don't expect semi-clones to happen at this point. At least not in new characters who have such a great amount of potential to be unique.
 

Smash G

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I don't know if it's been mentioned but one thing that might prevent her from ever getting a larger role is the legality of her. I bet she's a bit harder to have an effective IP and trademark for. Unlike Palutena who is wholly original Medusa has a name that cannot be protected and characteristics that cannot be protected. Someone else could easily have a game with Medusa looking basically the same because Medusa is public domain :p and cannot properly be protected. I'm doubting they'll ever give her a bigger role like in Smash Bros because of it. THOUGH they could just as easily choose to ignore the difficulties with the character. It's interesting though.
 

AncientTobacco

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I don't know if it's been mentioned but one thing that might prevent her from ever getting a larger role is the legality of her. I bet she's a bit harder to have an effective IP and trademark for. Unlike Palutena who is wholly original Medusa has a name that cannot be protected and characteristics that cannot be protected. Someone else could easily have a game with Medusa looking basically the same because Medusa is public domain :p and cannot properly be protected. I'm doubting they'll ever give her a bigger role like in Smash Bros because of it. THOUGH they could just as easily choose to ignore the difficulties with the character. It's interesting though.
Names like Mario, Luigi and Zelda can't be trademarked either. Neither can characteristics like a mustache or a red cap.
 

majora_787

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As a general rule I'm pretty sure you can only trademark a name if you completely fabricate it yourself and it doesn't already exist as public domain. Medusa was clearly not fabricated in Kid Icarus Uprising and is open for use. It's also a basic noun in the Spanish language.

But yeah really I dunno. Someone could make a game about a fat italian plumber named Mario who wears overalls, and it'd technically be fine. I mean Nintendo doesn't own the rights to:

- Fat people
- Overalls
- Italy OR people from Italy
- The concept of plumbers
- The name Mario
 
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Popo Nana Power

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Medusa is 100% a unique character, and fully protected by copyright. Whether a character's name was preexisting is irrelevant.

Remember, works fully based off older public domain works are still protected by copyright. And this is just a character who happens to have snake hair.
 
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Maxilian

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Medusa is 100% a unique character, and fully protected by copyright. Whether a character's name was preexisting is irrelevant.
I think he means, that the name could be used to make a character that looks a lot like Medusa and that even have the same name, like what china did to Japan with the Gundam (It could be easily reproduced or make character that looks like it to feed from that character popularity):


 
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majora_787

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You can have a pale character named Medusa who has snake hair and wears purple, and that's obviously fine with public domain. But once you make them the exiled goddess of darkness who leads over the Underworld Army, there starts being a tiny problem.

This isn't new and it tends to happen when you have characters with silly things like names that aren't fabricated on the spot, or physical traits of any kind that actually exist.
 
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Maxilian

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Substantial_similarity

If it's close enough, it's violation of copyright even though Nintendo doesn't own rights to the name "Medusa" or any of her particular characteristics like snake hair.
Look again at the 2 Gundams, do they look similar? Yes they do, but in the end they are not violating the copyright (Japan tried once, so China modified it but it still looks like a Gundam and Japon can't do anything about it)
 

stan423321

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Let's look at it this way: many FE characters have normal names. Is that a problem? No. Medusa doesn't share that much with her mythological counterpart. Let's take a look.
  • They share a name, and snake hair. They also basically look like women. These are major similarities.
  • They got "uglified" by Athena/Palutena (note that most old KI characters are non-original in Japanese names) as some sort of "punishment", and they have some sort of petrification skill. These are minor similarities.
  • KI Medusa is a goddess that could willingly try petrifying stuff before her fall; she got ugly (although she hides it with magic) for petrifying humans. GM Medusa is not a goddess in the most strict sense, petrifies whatever she sees or whatever what sees her eyes depending on the take, and got this "skill" in pack with beauty removal because Atena got annoyed on her due to Medusa being assaulted by Poseidon in Athena's temple (no comments). GM Medusa aimlessly wonders around one place, randomly petrifying people until slain by Perseus; KI Medusa actively conspires with Underworld and manages to get a relatively succesful campaign against Palutena, and gets to repeat this in KI:U where her story gets rather crazy. These are non-similarities.
 
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majora_787

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So the moral of the story is, Medusa isn't locked out of Smash because she's Medusa. That's like saying we can't have Ike in Smash because the name Ike, blue shirts, white pants, and steel-toed boots... further along, red capes and headbands, are all public domain. So is being a lord. Or a mercenary.
 

Maxilian

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So the moral of the story is, Medusa isn't locked out of Smash because she's Medusa. That's like saying we can't have Ike in Smash because the name Ike, blue shirts, white pants, and steel-toed boots... further along, red capes and headbands, are all public domain. So is being a lord. Or a mercenary.
No no, i'm not trying to say that, i really want Medusa in SSB but that doesn't mean that the we can say that Medusa is the most original character ever...
 

majora_787

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Smash wise, she is :troll:
I'm not looking at concept or character. If we do that, a lot of characters in Smash become less unique. I am talking about thematic differences in what she can do for Smash that separate her from the rest of the roster. Things Palutena doesn't really bring to the table. I mean sure, Palutena isn't literally named or blatantly physically based off of a mythological entity. But that doesn't really solve her problem.
 

stan423321

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No no, i'm not trying to say that, i really want Medusa in SSB but that doesn't mean that the we can say that Medusa is the most original character ever...
No. But this does not affect Medusa's chances too much. What matters is:
  • technical eligibility (confirmed)
  • bringing new elements to the battle (vague)
  • representation of Nintendo catalog (vague, but on the positive side)
  • lack of series overrepresentation (as above) (note: this is not the so called rep limit)
  • fanbase potential (OK?)
Unfortunately for Medusa's supporters, she isn't the only character fitting SSB. But the trademark/originality thing is not a problem. Even if it was, they could give her a title.

I'm not looking at concept or character. If we do that, a lot of characters in Smash become less unique. I am talking about thematic differences in what she can do for Smash that separate her from the rest of the roster. Things Palutena doesn't really bring to the table. I mean sure, Palutena isn't literally named or blatantly physically based off of a mythological entity. But that doesn't really solve her problem.
Palutena <- Pa-Ru-Te-Na in Japanese syllabic script <- Parthena (used as a girl's name sometimes) <- Athena Parthenos. Once you learn of Japanese transcription side effects, it is rather blatant. But that's just by the way.
 

Erotic&Heretic

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I'm not looking at concept or character. If we do that, a lot of characters in Smash become less unique. I am talking about thematic differences in what she can do for Smash that separate her from the rest of the roster. Things Palutena doesn't really bring to the table. I mean sure, Palutena isn't literally named or blatantly physically based off of a mythological entity. But that doesn't really solve her problem.
... Hmm.. I may miss a point about the whole conversation.

With the actual roster, she is able to bring new concepts on the table, right? Not saying she is the only one, nor she have the most awesome, unique, must have potential (it's just my personal opinion :troll:). Just that as a character, as a design and as a fighter, she is different than the rest of the actual roster. And the same goes for Palutena, in fact.
 

majora_787

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... Hmm.. I may miss a point about the whole conversation.

With the actual roster, she is able to bring new concepts on the table, right? Not saying she is the only one, nor she have the most awesome, unique, must have potential (it's just my personal opinion :troll:). Just that as a character, as a design and as a fighter, she is different than the rest of the actual roster. And the same goes for Palutena, in fact.
What I mean when I say thematic uniqueness has nothing to do with movesets. It's the same reason people complain about characters who use swords, even though aside from Toon Link everyone who uses a sword is really unique from each other. Zelda and Rosalina both use their own brands of light magic, and the closest thing we have to dark magic on the roster is Ganondorf whose moveset consists 100% of punching and kicking people in the teeth.
 

Erotic&Heretic

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What I mean when I say thematic uniqueness has nothing to do with movesets. It's the same reason people complain about characters who use swords, even though aside from Toon Link everyone who uses a sword is really unique from each other. Zelda and Rosalina both use their own brands of light magic, and the closest thing we have to dark magic on the roster is Ganondorf whose moveset consists 100% of punching and kicking people in the teeth.
Ah, yes, I get it. About swordsmen, We only have 6 of them, including Pit. This is clearly NOT a lot, and they all play differently. Even Toon Link.
We don't complain because we have too much humans.
 

majora_787

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Ah, yes, I get it. About swordsmen, We only have 6 of them, including Pit. This is clearly NOT a lot, and they all play differently. Even Toon Link.
We don't complain because we have too much humans.
Moral of the story is, people are petty and will complain about anything at all.
 

Yomi's Biggest Fan

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Why the hell is there an argument about copyrights? You don't see the Greeks ******** about Marvel's Thor, who's a blatant parody of the Norse thunder god of the same name.
 
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DustyPumpkin

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I sure hope you're clicking on these pictures so you can visit the artist's tumblr and tell her awesome she is
 

majora_787

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Why the hell is there an argument about copyrights? You don't see the Greeks *****ing about Marvel's Thor, who's a blatant parody of the Norse thunder god of the same name.
I dunno, I feel like people having to resort to really weak arguments against Medusa is a good thing. :p
 

Burigu

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Why the hell is there an argument about copyrights? You don't see the Greeks *****ing about Marvel's Thor, who's a blatant parody of the Norse thunder god of the same name.
You mean nordics right
 

chronomantic

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So I've been meaning to ask you guys who know more about Kid Icarus than I do. What's the hierarchy between Medusa, Thanatos and Hades et al on the series? who's the 'bigger bad' basically. Following Greek mythology I'd think is Hades but don't know how this works in Icarus exactly.
 

TeenGirlSquad

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So I've been meaning to ask you guys who know more about Kid Icarus than I do. What's the hierarchy between Medusa, Thanatos and Hades et al on the series? who's the 'bigger bad' basically. Following Greek mythology I'd think is Hades but don't know how this works in Icarus exactly.
Hades > Medusa > Thanatos. Roughly.
 
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