Q&A thread ASK QUESTIONS HERE.

[Masonomace]

How do you lag cancel in brawl with marth? Is it buffering?

This is the lucario Q&A thread about lucario but sure i'll answer your question since the Marth boards haven't yet. Be more specific on what you mean with the character marth, are you asking how to auto-cancel aerials?

 

[BRE]

Oh, Im sorry.
Yes

 

[Masonomace]

Oh, Im sorry.
Yes

Kk I'll go through each aerial (Also i'm not the best person to ask this but I can try)

N-air (Neutral Air) : This aerial almost auto-cancels if you short hop (SH) and N-air. You'll have no landing lag while if you fast fall (FF) N-air you'll get 3 or 8 frames of landing lag (Not that much)
F-air (Forward Air) : Short Hopping and input F-air at any time since F-air almost auto-cancels nicely near ground. you can F-air twice before landing. Only 3 frames of landing lag (Not much)
B-air (Backward Air) :You have to short hop and input B-air as fast you can with any aerial besides D-air (down aerial) after that or Air-dodge.
D-air (Down Aerial) : You can auto-cancel this aerial only by full hopping (FH) your jump and input D-air as soon as you can and input any other aerial, Fast falling (FF) or air-dodge.
U-air (Up Aerial) : This aerial is pretty nice for auto-canceling on it's own you won't experience too much landing lag at all with this aerial.
Conclusion: F-air U-air and N-air are all pretty good for landing with, B-air is something you can barely get away with and D-air is not recommended

 

[Masonomace]

Can possibly someone show me lucario's hit-bubbles when he's slanted / angled on stage terrain? Good examples would be YI (Brawl) slants, Lylat's long wings, Pictochat's tiny slants etc.

 

[DarkDragoon]

>_> Is platform canceling something I can do/should do with Lucario? I see Marth people doing it often.
I guess it's for movement tricksies?
-DD

 

[Masonomace]

>_> Is platform canceling something I can do/should do with Lucario? I see Marth people doing it often.
I guess it's for movement tricksies?
-DD

Lucario can make good use of it with Zoning ASC / FAS to mess with them, also that lucario can PC and D-air upon canceling for a moving hitbox under platform, I'd say Lucario can do, It's not a absolute necessity he needs but can be extra flash AT for mix-ups

 

[Meta651]

My school is making a Brawl Tournament in 2 weeks, Doubles and Singles. I friend asked me to be his partner in doubles and he wants to be Lucario, it's his main so I accepted and we want to try Anubis. I was thinking in using Meta Knight, Snake or Falco but i rather not use Meta Knight. So, what you recomend to partner with Lucario??

 

[Masonomace]

So, what you recomend to partner with Lucario??

Normally, I would recommend DeDeDe, Meat Knight, even Snake can do well sometimes. Mostly DeDeDe and Meta Knight do well with Lucario. G&W works as well for bucket charging

 

[Masonomace]

Morning anyone/everyone got a questions for ya:

General Question: Does Lucario get any frame advantage upon grab pummeling and ground/air releasing any or specific character(s)?

• Currently working on Wario ground releases myself and so far it's alright

Specific Question: How long can Lucario's DT 1st hit-box on frame>6 last frame wise until you can't counter with Double Team?
Hit Box on frame: 6
Completes on frame: 81
Invincibility Frame(s): 6-36
Actual slide starts (after activation): 26

• ^ This info came straight from the Frame data of Double Team and I noticed after watching DT in slow-mo (which looks amazing) that you can't counter-slide with DT after your Invinci-frames end on 36. At first this frame data seemed confusing back in 2010 because I thought that on end-frame 36 is the last frame chance to still counter and slide, and for a while I assumed the Slide after activation was on frame>26 but now that feels wrong to me knowing that it really meant 26 frames after any invinci-frame opportunity in between frames>6-36. So maybe should it look like this?
• Actual slide starts ((In between frame 6-36)) : 26 frames after activation = minimum DT invinci-frames: 32 & maximum DT invinci-frames: 62 frames

Another Specific Question: Double Team has IASA frames?

• I'm sitting here DT'ing in slow-mo and I'm wondering if the frame data meant that DT Completes on frame: 81 from the entire animation including Lucario's left leg stepping back to neutral position? If so then Lucario can input an action before the leg moves back at all. If not then my apologies~

Maybe Last Specific Question: How come Double Team Slide has no hit-bubbles or shield-stun information?

 

[Karnu]

Good tips for vs Snake.

I have a MM with Attila(who placed 49th at apex 2013)

 

[Astronut]

Very specific question here, is it possible to SH -> FF -> ASC -> AD (to cancel the charge), all before you hit the ground?

 

[Konrad-QD]

I just checked the frame data article. To answer your question we need to have more information. Specifically we need to know the frame data for short hop then ff or in other words what is the shortest time for lucario to be in the air. I lack the tools to test this but perhaps somebody else can. From experience I can tell shfair asc ad is possible and extremely useful

 

[Astronut]

I just checked the frame data article. To answer your question we need to have more information. Specifically we need to know the frame data for short hop then ff or in other words what is the shortest time for lucario to be in the air. I lack the tools to test this but perhaps somebody else can. From experience I can tell shfair asc ad is possible and extremely useful

Alright, thanks. Figured that was the case. And yea I agree; it's also really nice to wavebounce after you shfair your opponent, because it can line them up nicely with your aura sphere.

 

[FSLAR]

On AllisBrawl I saw something where in the air you can cancel the Aura Sphere charging when you touch the ground quicker by press L or R, and it doesn't bring up your shield. There's some claims that you move faster or something. Any use for this?

AIB is down so I can't fetch the thread

 

[Angiance]

Well, the wall jump is great for super cuuuuuuuuute mixes~

 

[Astronut]

On AllisBrawl I saw something where in the air you can cancel the Aura Sphere charging when you touch the ground quicker by press L or R, and it doesn't bring up your shield. There's some claims that you move faster or something. Any use for this?

AIB is down so I can't fetch the thread

I think you're essentially airdodging really close to the ground, so it looks like you're cancelling it on the ground.

 

[Masonomace]

sorry all I'd message this sooner and i did post a reply to Astronut's question but Smashboards pulled a overload card....Lots of retyping ugh

Very specific question here, is it possible to SH -> FF -> ASC -> AD (to cancel the charge), all before you hit the ground?

Basically yes it is possible considering you don't mis-input it as a DT floating down to be punished. The issue with this setup formula is knowing when to FF after your SH. SH starts up at frame 6 but as far as when the SH completing frame, i'm not sure when you can Interrupt the floaty SH to FF. Do some testing with Training and set it to slow-mo when you're able to FF after your SH's aerial peak height.

As far as a alternate solution to your question:
Frame 6 SH to a Buffered rising Frame 7 F-air that completes on frame 27 - 30 ends right around the similar time you're able to FF.

On AllisBrawl I saw something where in the air you can cancel the Aura Sphere charging when you touch the ground quicker by press L or R, and it doesn't bring up your shield. There's some claims that you move faster or something. Any use for this?

AIB is down so I can't fetch the thread

By your little question description it sounds like you mean Lucario using AirDodge = AD right before landing on the ground from FastFalling = FF or something, but on a common note you can just press Left or Right on the control stick to Roll upon landing on the ground AuraSphereCharging = ASC

Well, the wall jump is great for super cuuuuuuuuute mixes~

Bessstesst Walljump the game can offer<3

 

[Konrad-QD]

Mason! Where you at?

 

[Astronut]

Basically yes it is possible considering you don't mis-input it as a DT floating down to be punished. The issue with this setup formula is knowing when to FF after your SH. SH starts up at frame 6 but as far as when the SH completing frame, i'm not sure when you can Interrupt the floaty SH to FF. Do some testing with Training and set it to slow-mo when you're able to FF after your SH's aerial peak height.

As far as a alternate solution to your question:
Frame 6 SH to a Buffered rising Frame 7 F-air that completes on frame 27 - 30 ends right around the similar time you're able to FF.

I've been trying to perform this, but no success yet (I'm not doubting the possibility of this maneuver, I just know it's difficult lol). If anyone is able to do it please let me know.

 

[Sunnysunny]

I've been trying to perform this, but no success yet (I'm not doubting the possibility of this maneuver, I just know it's difficult lol). If anyone is able to do it please let me know.

I actually do this consistently when I play, but instead, I do SH buffer f-aired, FF, B-reverse, Airdodge.
It's a good way to bait out attacks. After you reverse in the other direction, you can check if the opponent threw out anymoves or tried to challenge you in the air and punish accordingly.

Anywho, to do it consistently all it takes is practice. Lotsa practice. But I find buffering f-airs helps with the timing a lot as you SH upwards. Like, I seriously can't do it without SH-ing f-airs because i'm so use to it being the signal that i've reached the apex of my SH. I guess try that?

Good luck man~

 

[CourageHound]

Are there any matchups Lucario has that forces him to approach and modify and modify your playstyle a certain way?

 

[Sunnysunny]

Are there any matchups Lucario has that forces him to approach and modify and modify your playstyle a certain way?

There are quite a few MU's where lucario has to change his playstyle, (Snake, Icys and Diddy to name a few) but it doesn't hinder us too much since lucario's versatile enough to deal with characters that make you play by there rules. Even if a character forces us too approach we can still play patiently thanks to aura.

For example, Falco outcamps us in the long range game, and has quicker pokes up close. However, were still not really "forced" to hard to approach or act. While Falco can rack up damage, he still has to get the kill, so it's fine for us to play patiently and sneak our way into a safe poking range to net large amounts of damage at high aura against him so long as were careful about not letting him get off a KO move. In fact, that's one of the only reasons MU's like this our remotely even for us.

When it comes to spacing moves we generally have more mid-ranged control then most characters, so our goal is too sneak into that range when we are outcamped. Out of our opponents up close game, but close enough to poke at them and make them sweat about throwing out projectiles. Falco, Toon Link and Pit are good examples of this. They outcamp us but we become more dangerous as the match drags on and our aura gets higher. So long as we play patiently.

It's actually ideal to keep our distance from Snake because baby aura spheres do a wonderful job at interrupting his grenade game and keeping us out of his superior mid-upclose game.

Iiiiif I had to really pick one character in top tier that forces us to approach and changes how we play though i'd have to say olimar. While we can stop his camping game by f-airing away all his side-b attempts we can't really poke at him too safely because he just flat out out-ranges us. His range coupled with our slower then average moves also makes it difficult to punish his moves when spaced right. We have to patiently f-air away pikmen until we find an opportunity too approach. Our roll is really helpful in this MU, but olimars always pretty risky too approach at high percent because of his blue grab or purple u-smash OoS. Once we get in we can generate some pretty good pressure, but again, approaching Olimars always really risky.

Hope that helps~

 

[CourageHound]

Yes thank you, it was much appreciated. Also what are some defensive options you can take when being pressured or have lost stage control? Opponents for example could be Marth, MK, GaW, Falco, etc.

 

[Konrad-QD]

Defensive options depend on the character. Characters without projectiles, reflectors, or absorbing mechanisms are going to try to power shield your aura sphere from the ledge and then punish you. You can use this to your advantage by jumping (say from the ledge) ASCing as though you will shoot it and then cancel the charge with air dodge into the stage. Optimally this can lead to a free grab as your opponent is likely shielding expecting the aura sphere.

to some extent this should work on other characters as well but you should be aware that your ASC can be interrupted by projectiles like falco's lasers. Therefore you can try to jump above the lasers or walk towards falco and power shield the lasers to pressure him. Another good defensive option is canceling ASC on the ground and quickly cross up the opponent with one of our fair + crossup approaches. The fact that your AS is being charged should help you to cross up your opponent safely since they are probably very aware of the charge. Finally you can simply roll out of ASC if the situation calls for it.

 

[Raiuz]

Somebody talked about a new way to infinte Diddy Kong, can anyone please explain it?

 

[Konrad-QD]

Somebody talked about a new way to infinte Diddy Kong, can anyone please explain it?

YES actually! Player-1 discovered this infinite and showed it to me at Apex. I actually have a video of him doing it and have been working on learning it myself.

Basically you full hop over diddy and throw the banana down on to diddy. It trips diddy and comes back up and you have to Z catch it and fast fall to where diddy tripped and then footstool the diddy. Immediately after footstooling the diddy you z drop the banana which trips the diddy again and you have to catch it with a fast fall air dodge to the ground. You then dash towards diddy and full hop over diddy and repeat the whole thing. Theres a couple tricky aspects to this. You want to aim the bananas so that diddy doesn't always trip in the same direction. If you do that, you will eventually run out of stage space and the infinite won't really be infinite. So what Player-1 does is he aims the banana on the far side of Diddy during the full hop to get diddy to trip towards you. Then the footstool z drop trips him back to where he was originally.

Anyway the thing that is different about this infinite compared to other infinites is the Z drop. The reason you have to Z drop the banana is due to lucario's floatyness. If you just throw the banana like any other infinite the trajectory of the banana does not match lucario's location.

EDIT: I just noticed the first part also seems to involve a footstool. I'm going to upload the video and post a link here in a bit : http://youtu.be/3axFLAMBZRA
uploading now!

 

[Astronut]

YES actually! Player-1 discovered this infinite and showed it to me at Apex. I actually have a video of him doing it and have been working on learning it myself.

Basically you full hop over diddy and throw the banana down on to diddy. It trips diddy and comes back up and you have to Z catch it and fast fall to where diddy tripped and then footstool the diddy. Immediately after footstooling the diddy you z drop the banana which trips the diddy again and you have to catch it with a fast fall air dodge to the ground. You then dash towards diddy and full hop over diddy and repeat the whole thing. Theres a couple tricky aspects to this. You want to aim the bananas so that diddy doesn't always trip in the same direction. If you do that, you will eventually run out of stage space and the infinite won't really be infinite. So what Player-1 does is he aims the banana on the far side of Diddy during the full hop to get diddy to trip towards you. Then the footstool z drop trips him back to where he was originally.

Anyway the thing that is different about this infinite compared to other infinites is the Z drop. The reason you have to Z drop the banana is due to lucario's floatyness. If you just throw the banana like any other infinite the trajectory of the banana does not match lucario's location.

EDIT: I just noticed the first part also seems to involve a footstool. I'm going to upload the video and post a link here in a bit : http://youtu.be/3axFLAMBZRA
uploading now!

Wooooow, thank you for that info! I gotta go practice this now.

 

[Raiuz]

Thanks, gotta try it out as soon as possible

 

[Lamac967]

I don't know if people even still are active on this, this is my last attempt to improve with lucario. I REALLY love the game and my favorite by far is lucario, but his timing is so impossible for me, especially his double team attack.

I've read every guide I can find, watched videos, watched myself playing to see what I'm doing wrong, etc..... I don't know what I'm doing wrong. I thought I'd read through this entire thread for advice, but it's 67 pages and a lot of it is just chatter or complaining about mods :/.

Is lucario just a hard character to master? I mean I haven't played a lot, but I feel like when I do play he's just hard to play. I want to stick with him, I don't just want an easy character like meta knight or Ike, but I'm starting to lose hope.

 

[RT]

First of all, stop relying on Double Team. You're doing it wrong.

 

[Lamac967]

First of all, stop relying on Double Team. You're doing it wrong.

I'm not trying to 'rely' on anything . I've gone into training and even slowed everything down, just to practice in case I DO need it. No matter how much I practice, there's too small of a window in which it's effective.

So what exactly should I be relying on then?...

 

[Astronut]

Do you play wifi or have people to play with offline? One of the best ways to get better is just to play with other people. You could also go into training mode and practice the little things that make Lucario decent, i.e. retreating short hop fairs, fast falls, fair into nair "combos", landing with Force Palm, Aura Sphere mindgames, b-reversals, the list goes on.
Lucario may feel difficult to begin with, but once you get the hang of him you'll start to realize all the cool things you can do.

 

[Lamac967]

Do you play wifi or have people to play with offline? One of the best ways to get better is just to play with other people. You could also go into training mode and practice the little things that make Lucario decent, i.e. retreating short hop fairs, fast falls, fair into nair "combos", landing with Force Palm, Aura Sphere mindgames, b-reversals, the list goes on.
Lucario may feel difficult to begin with, but once you get the hang of him you'll start to realize all the cool things you can do.

I play offline 95% of the time but usually just against computers. I can hold my own and USUALLY win against 'nasty' computers, but it takes a lot of effort and I do feel like when it's that difficult I just end up button mashing and have no actual strategy.

I've tried playing online but it's often kind of laggy, and I usually just get slaughtered.

 

[Lamac967]

I think a lot of my problem is that I feel like I never have enough time to do anything. I don't have space to charge aura sphere, I don't have time to charge a smash before someone hits me, he runs super slow, etc.

Maybe this just isn't the character for me? I just wanna stick with him, I don't wanna give up and just choose someone who's gonna be 'easy'.

 

[yessi]

I play offline 95% of the time but usually just against computers. I can hold my own and USUALLY win against 'nasty' computers, but it takes a lot of effort and I do feel like when it's that difficult I just end up button mashing and have no actual strategy.

I've tried playing online but it's often kind of laggy, and I usually just get slaughtered.

Playing against lvl 9 cpus isnt the best thing to play against, unless you want to get good at playing against lvl 9 cpus. They have bad habits that no real player has and isn't reliable to go against if you plan to play people irl.

I suggest playing against cpus lvl 1-3 because they don't have as bad of a habit. Mostly just to get a better feel for your character and to improve tech skill and combos.

I think a lot of my problem is that I feel like I never have enough time to do anything. I don't have space to charge aura sphere, I don't have time to charge a smash before someone hits me, he runs super slow, etc.

Maybe this just isn't the character for me? I just wanna stick with him, I don't wanna give up and just choose someone who's gonna be 'easy'.

Practicing against people will help you decide on spacing aura sphere charges, charging up smashes, etc. If you really want to get good fight as many people as you can. Practice, practice, practice.

Lucario by no means is an easy character to pick up thats for sure.

However, if you really want to be great with Lucario, you'll need a huge dose of motivation, a pinch of patience, a smidgeon of dedication, and a few dollops of determination. Also maintain your sense of humor, make a personal commitment to have some fun, and you're on your way.

 

[Konrad-QD]

I think a lot of my problem is that I feel like I never have enough time to do anything. I don't have space to charge aura sphere, I don't have time to charge a smash before someone hits me, he runs super slow, etc.

Maybe this just isn't the character for me? I just wanna stick with him, I don't wanna give up and just choose someone who's gonna be 'easy'.

Hi Lamac,

I'm glad that you've decided to learn to play lucario well! The thing is, as with al characters, to truly play him well you need to be technically fluent as well as understand how to read a thinking human opponent. It sounds like your problem has to do with spacing. Lucario's moveset is primarily designed for spacing ( since his moves have good range, lingering hitboxes, not much end lag, but quite a bit of start up lag like fsmash). I a sense what you want to do is initiate your moves at the range where they can either barely hit or barely miss (this is called "overspacing" and is a theory used by most top players). Asides from that you need to understand what your opponent wants to do so that you can think of ways around that. That is called knowing the "matchup." I will give you some links to helpful guides to get you started:

http://smashboards.com/threads/lucario-clinic-options-strategies-and-ats.336601/#post-16092408
http://smashboards.com/threads/dash-grab-spacing-and-why-we-suck-at-brawl.317800/

good luck!

 

[Konrad-QD]

About the jigglypuff matchup:

How do you punish Dair on shield? In general are JP's moves safe on shield or is there a way to punish them? As far as priority, what moves do we have that beat or trade JP's moves in the air. Is that dependent on aura boost? There's a good jigglypuff in my region and I must say I got bopped recently even though I feel like I should be winning. I know part of it is that I wasn't successfully DIing out of dair + rest combos but also I wasn't familiar with what moves I should be using to counter jigglypuff. There is no video online that really demonstrates this matchup well that I could find.

In general if I could get some links to videos as well as specific counters to specific approaches that jigglypuff has that would be great. Thanks!

 

[AquaNinja]

I'm a beginner at using Lucario and I'm still trying to get use to some combos and techniques. Can anyone tell me any tips I could use like basically what I should be focusing on or things I should do as Lucario. Also, maybe direct me to some helpful beginner threads. Thanks!

 

[Konrad-QD]

I'm a beginner at using Lucario and I'm still trying to get use to some combos and techniques. Can anyone tell me any tips I could use like basically what I should be focusing on or things I should do as Lucario. Also, maybe direct me to some helpful beginner threads. Thanks!

Hi AquaNinja! Welcome to the Lucario boards! Some beginner help can be found here:

http://smashboards.com/threads/the-lucario-starter-guide-and-minor-database.239748/

and here:

http://smashboards.com/threads/lucario-clinic-options-strategies-and-ats.336601/

In general I recommend learning how to buffer a lot of moves quickly and how to have good movement. To move well you should be proficient at: short hopping, full hopping, fast falling every hop, wavebouncing, b reversing, b pivoting, wall clinging from up-B, foxtroting, dashing, crawling, and walking. Rolling is something that a lot of beginners overuse so I suggest avoiding this option until you've familiarized yourself with all the other options.

Let me know if you need any further help!

 

[AquaNinja]

Hi AquaNinja! Welcome to the Lucario boards! Some beginner help can be found here:

http://smashboards.com/threads/the-lucario-starter-guide-and-minor-database.239748/

and here:

http://smashboards.com/threads/lucario-clinic-options-strategies-and-ats.336601/

In general I recommend learning how to buffer a lot of moves quickly and how to have good movement. To move well you should be proficient at: short hopping, full hopping, fast falling every hop, wavebouncing, b reversing, b pivoting, wall clinging from up-B, foxtroting, dashing, crawling, and walking. Rolling is something that a lot of beginners overuse so I suggest avoiding this option until you've familiarized yourself with all the other options.

Let me know if you need any further help!

Thanks! I will take all of your advice. :D