PYP mafia! Game over!

[Deleted member]

For the record: Pokechu has a tendency to defend really other players when he's Town, this definitely reminds me of past games with him.

And what I learned last game is that Chu is always the opposite of what I think he is so
Vote: pokechu

What do you think of TTK so far and his thought process during the role selection phase?

Not feeling anything strong currently, don't think I paid much attention to his posts I guess.

 

[Kantrip]

For the record: Pokechu has a tendency to defend really other players when he's Town, this definitely reminds me of past games with him.

And what I learned last game is that Chu is always the opposite of what I think he is so
Vote: pokechu

Not feeling anything strong currently, don't think I paid much attention to his posts I guess.

I understand your push on Z25 hinges on his attempt to push for giving mafia the one-shot hider, correct? Is there more to it?
Do you take issue with Koopa also voting to give the mafia this role? Why or why not?

 

[Deleted member]

I understand your push on Z25 hinges on his attempt to push for giving mafia the one-shot hider, correct? Is there more to it?
Do you take issue with Koopa also voting to give the mafia this role? Why or why not?

ok i really need to pay attention when reading
Actually, yeah, I do. Me do not like Hider, but I only remember Z25 voting for it back when I was still active in Day 0. Though I don't really remember Z posting much after I left either.

 

[Kantrip]

Okay, that's reasonable.

I agree with the Hider hate. I think its power comes from its guaranteed denial of information regardless of what PR's mafia gave us. In my opinion, it would be just as powerful if it could only hide a lynch or only hide a Night Kill. Either way it still accomplishes the same purpose which is to give mafia more information that town doesn't have and make it harder for us to make any assured decisions from that point onwards.

For that reason, I am more okay with Z25's Hider vote than Koopa's. I don't believe Koopa's claimed reason for backing off of the vote makes sense, as he claims that it was Maven pointing out that the ability works on lynches that caused him to change his mind on it. I hope he can clear this up in answering my questions to him but for now I feel comfortable voting him.

Vote: ThirdKoopa

 

[Vult Redux]

I'm on mobile and have a flight this evening. I'll try to read more at the airport.

Z25 Pokechu Your argument looks like town bickering over what seems to be just a disagreement over the strength of roles and their likelihood of getting picked. The Role Hider is strong but it's not so bad that a townie would never vote for it..

 

[Moydow]

I'm fine with what Nabe's been doing, myself. Looks like he was just trying to probe and gauge reactions, which seems okay to me.

I forgot J was even playing until people started mentioning him. Needs to say something sooner or later. Though at the same time I kind of doubt mafia would just completely sit out of the role voting? Maybe he was just busy or something.

Most iffy right now on the people who were voting for flip hider and only jumped off it once people started pointing out what it actually does. Anything that gives us less information to work with is just bad, only people who would even try to push for that are mafia.

Somewhat similarly, if we got the jailer, then people pushing for poisoner aren't looking good right now, and if we didn't, then the rolecop people don't look good. Though they're both pretty undesirable so it's not conclusive either way.

Was out for most of yesterday and gotta head for class right now so this is all I have for the moment, but I'll read over the thread more closely later when I have more time.

 

[Deleted member]

Who the **** is J again?

 

[giraffelasergun]

PYP 2K18 VC1D1:

Fire Emblemier: Nabe (1)
Kantrip: Thirdkoopa (1)
Nabe: Maven, Fand (2)
Z25: Shish, Pokechu (2)
Thirdkoopa: Kantrip (1)

Not Voting: Fire Emblemier, J, Moydow, Vult Redux, Sephiroth, Z25 (6)

Just posting a few quick rules just in case not everyone read the rules in the opening post, I added them in between sign ups and game start so I'm not sure if everyone read them whoops.

Lynch is determined by who has the most votes at deadline. If there is a tie, there will be a 1 hour tie breaker round where everyone but the people with the most votes can vote.
During Night Phases, posts in this thread are not allowed. You may communicate with other players during night phases. Night phase communication must be in a PM with one other person and myself.

This has been your friendly game Mod GLG, please enjoy the rest of your day.

 

[giraffelasergun]

Tagging #HBC | J just to make sure they know the game has started because I believe everyone else has posted?

 

[Deleted member]

Wait hold on we have Night convos??? What!?

 

[Vult Redux]

Most iffy right now on the people who were voting for flip hider and only jumped off it once people started pointing out what it actually does. Anything that gives us less information to work with is just bad, only people who would even try to push for that are mafia.

How much mafia experience do you have? (Not trying to sound condescending but I can't think of a nicer way to ask... sorry!).

You don't think it's reasonable for someone to back off their original opinion after discussion? Mafia would do that but not town?

 

[Deleted member]

How much mafia experience do you have? (Not trying to sound condescending but I can't think of a nicer way to ask... sorry!).

You don't think it's reasonable for someone to back off their original opinion after discussion? Mafia would do that but not town?

Moydow literally just ended a game where she helped to lynch Alpha in the tiebreaker despite having voted for Z25 initially so take that so...
this isn't to condemn anyone for the mislynch but to actually show how big of a 180° Town can make in a single Day.

 

[Vult Redux]

re: my issue with Sephiroths Masamune . Wishy-washy was not the right word so sorry for the confusion.

in #128 he takes a hard initial stance FOR Poisoner.
in #130 he stills he's caught up and still FOR Poisoner but "Maven could persuade me on Poisoner". This is reasonable at face, but Maven already made good arguments against Poisoner in post #122 so it's reads as faking to me.
in #191 he bothers Maven to elaborate more on why Maven is against Poisoner. Maven reiterates his argument in #192, which again I think is a good argument and to be frank made me feel less pro-Poisoner on my reread.
in #194 Sephiroth votes Poisoner without addressing Maven's good (imo) points.

After that they bicker about semantic stuff. To be frank, their entire interaction was unproductive and felt staged. Why say you're "open to changing your mind" and then not do it when presented with an (imo) good argument. Fishy.

vote: sophiroths mostly to have a vote out there. I haven't read closely on Kantrip's points about ThirdKoopa (haven't focused on ThirdKoopa at all yet) but on a skim it looks like a solid vote.

 

[Fire Emblemier]

Moydow literally just ended a game where she helped to lynch Alpha in the tiebreaker despite having voted for Z25 initially so take that so...
this isn't to condemn anyone for the mislynch but to actually show how big of a 180° Town can make in a single Day.

To be fair it was my fault, we really didn't want a tie\ and it ended up being a Town v Town tie breaker anyway.

 

[Deleted member]

re: my issue with Sephiroths Masamune . Wishy-washy was not the right word so sorry for the confusion.

in #128 he takes a hard initial stance FOR Poisoner.
in #130 he stills he's caught up and still FOR Poisoner but "Maven could persuade me on Poisoner". This is reasonable at face, but Maven already made good arguments against Poisoner in post #122 so it's reads as faking to me.
in #191 he bothers Maven to elaborate more on why Maven is against Poisoner. Maven reiterates his argument in #192, which again I think is a good argument and to be frank made me feel less pro-Poisoner on my reread.
in #194 Sephiroth votes Poisoner without addressing Maven's good (imo) points.

After that they bicker about semantic stuff. To be frank, their entire interaction was unproductive and felt staged. Why say you're "open to changing your mind" and then not do it when presented with an (imo) good argument. Fishy.

vote: sophiroths mostly to have a vote out there. I haven't read closely on Kantrip's points about ThirdKoopa (haven't focused on ThirdKoopa at all yet) but on a skim it looks like a solid vote.

I'm not familiar with neither you nor Sephiroth, so could you tell me what you do know of his playstyle?

Same question goes to Sephiroths Masamune regarding Vult.

To be fair it was my fault, we really didn't want a tie\ and it ended up being a Town v Town tie breaker anyway.

As I said, it's not about the mislynch, but how Town can completely change their mind in a small time frame.

 

[Vult Redux]

I probably have played with Seph before but I don't remember anything about him.

I've played with Nabe before and his posting style is familiar. I've played with Kantrip and J but don't remember anything about them either.

I think that's it...

I don't think it relates to my argument though @Shishœ and I want to know what you think of it

 

[Maven89]

Now that I’ve had some sleep

Sephiroths Masamune i think I understand what you were getting at. Rolecop and roleblock are a strong mafia combination in any setup, while poisoner and roleblock is only powerful if we have a jailer. However, I find poisoner and roleblock to be more powerful than RC+RB if we do have a jailer. And I think it’s extremely likely we have a jailer.


On Nabe: I think I’m hypersensitive to him being scum. He is generating discussion, but we already had plenty of discussion, and that’s the benefit of PYOP. And his utter vagueness at what he’s getting at (I’m guessing Pokechu comment) led me to suspect it was really just nonsense, and it was all faked, or at worst an attempt to deflect from Z25. However, it’s starting to remind me of Mario mafia, where Nabe did nothing day 1 but post vote counts, making me suspect he was just trying to be active and get town credit without having to scum hunt.

I still think Nabe could be scum but I don’t think it’s the right play at this time

Unvote: Nabe

 

[Maven89]

I probably have played with Seph before but I don't remember anything about him.

I've played with Nabe before and his posting style is familiar. I've played with Kantrip and J but don't remember anything about them either.

I think that's it...

 

[Moydow]

How much mafia experience do you have? (Not trying to sound condescending but I can't think of a nicer way to ask... sorry!).

You don't think it's reasonable for someone to back off their original opinion after discussion? Mafia would do that but not town?

I think this is my fifth or sixth game here? So not that much, really. Still fairly new at this.

I think it's reasonable that you might be convinced otherwise after some discussion... it seemed a bit hasty for that at first, but I probably just need to have a closer look, really. Could well be nothing.

Moydow literally just ended a game where she helped to lynch Alpha in the tiebreaker despite having voted for Z25 initially so take that so...
this isn't to condemn anyone for the mislynch but to actually show how big of a 180° Town can make in a single Day.

Wow, thanks for the boost of confidence

Anyway, point noted, I'll keep it in mind.

 

[Deleted member]

I probably have played with Seph before but I don't remember anything about him.

I've played with Nabe before and his posting style is familiar. I've played with Kantrip and J but don't remember anything about them either.

I think that's it...

I don't think it relates to my argument though @Shishœ and I want to know what you think of it

I just want to get an idea of the users I haven't personally seen playing.

As for your point

re: my issue with Sephiroths Masamune . Wishy-washy was not the right word so sorry for the confusion.

in #128 he takes a hard initial stance FOR Poisoner.
in #130 he stills he's caught up and still FOR Poisoner but "Maven could persuade me on Poisoner". This is reasonable at face, but Maven already made good arguments against Poisoner in post #122 so it's reads as faking to me.
in #191 he bothers Maven to elaborate more on why Maven is against Poisoner. Maven reiterates his argument in #192, which again I think is a good argument and to be frank made me feel less pro-Poisoner on my reread.
in #194 Sephiroth votes Poisoner without addressing Maven's good (imo) points.

After that they bicker about semantic stuff. To be frank, their entire interaction was unproductive and felt staged. Why say you're "open to changing your mind" and then not do it when presented with an (imo) good argument. Fishy.

vote: sophiroths mostly to have a vote out there. I haven't read closely on Kantrip's points about ThirdKoopa (haven't focused on ThirdKoopa at all yet) but on a skim it looks like a solid vote.

I can see that it seems a bit inconsistent but I really don't think it's "staged", we always have that kind of suggestion that scum is faking a "MvM situation as TvT" but it has yet to actually happen(and I personally find it a stupid gamble to actually try). Usually it's TvT or TvM(like Opossum vs Pokechu in Phantom Mafia).
Though this isn't much of a fight so I dunno.

My opinion on it is that it has some merit but I don't think Maven and Seph are necessarily connected because of it. Pointless arguing is more likely to happen between two unconnected players imo.

 

[Maven89]

I just want to get an idea of the users I haven't personally seen playing.

As for your point

I can see that it seems a bit inconsistent but I really don't think it's "staged", we always have that kind of suggestion that scum is faking a "MvM situation as TvT" but it has yet to actually happen(and I personally find it a stupid gamble to actually try). Usually it's TvT or TvM(like Opossum vs Pokechu in Phantom Mafia).
Though this isn't much of a fight so I dunno.

My opinion on it is that it has some merit but I don't think Maven and Seph are necessarily connected because of it. Pointless arguing is more likely to happen between two unconnected players imo.

Having mafia stage arguments amongst themselves to create distance in case one of them dies is really common

 

[Deleted member]

Having mafia stage arguments amongst themselves to create distance in case one of them dies is really common

I have yet to see one in Day 1 in all the games I've played. Maybe when one thinks they're about to go down? Sure. But on D1? We always have pointless and it most always involves Town.

 

[Z25]

You literally tried to vote for Hider, if you want me to trust you, then maybe don't vote the definitve worst role that anyone could choose in this game.

Like I said I misunderstood what the role was. When you pointed it out I had just come online yesterday as I have been busy the day before and wanted to check my choices out and read discussion.

You’ve played enough games to know I definitely get confused by things from time to time, so I don’t see what they should make me scum.

 

[Deleted member]

Like I said I misunderstood what the role was. When you pointed it out I had just come online yesterday as I have been busy the day before and wanted to check my choices out and read discussion.

You’ve played enough games to know I definitely get confused by things from time to time, so I don’t see what they should make me scum.

What did you think the role even was anyways then?

 

[Thirdkoopa]

Interesting development on the day phase. Let's go.

What do you think of TTK so far and his thought process during the role selection phase?

Okay, so, this has nothing to do with anything, but I find it interesting that you're calling me TTK when I haven't gone by that for a while on here

Did you initially think the Hider ability only worked on a Night Kill?

If it was only usable on Night Kills and not lynches, do you think it would have been a good play to give it to mafia?

Yes. I skimmed too fast and figured "oh it hides the night phase like a janitor" and missed it. As soon as I realized that it worked on Lynches my brain went "nonono we are not dealing with that wine." - I've been having a bad habit of not reading all of the rules and that's on me.

Back at the time? Yes because it would have been a townie that got janned and it'd be luck for whether it messed us up too hard. After getting clarification on the roles, even if it only worked at night? Probably not, and still never with a Role Cop. We'd have to play our investigative cards differently and hope any bus shenanigans wouldn't happen - I'd still probably not vote it, but, my reasoning for voting it at first was pretty simple without thinking enough about it. Here's a list of PR's Mafia could fakeclaim:

Cop
Potentially Jail Keeper

But... If they janned a PR, they know the PR's town gave to us, so they could spew a bunch of potential for shenanigans. The informed Minority do not need any more information over the uninformed majority.

Don't think I'd have time to do an ISO of everyone, but, a post ISO of Seph and Volt piques my interest.

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

What I'm saying is your indecisiveness to lock it one way or another bothers me; I wish you had either voted Poisoner earlier or helped lock in Role Cop so Scum couldn't just come in and sway the vote. Does it make me think you're scum? No, but you claim that there was no way for you to change it. If you thought Poisoner was objectively the better choice over Role cop, overall, then there was a time to make that case for it. Now you've lost any chance to make that case.

Thankfully it was roles and not players; I'm going to keep a big eye on anyone who does this with players.

I don't understand this viewpoint at all, from a town perspective. If scum came in and swayed the vote: congrats, we've caught 'em. You say that it doesn't make you think that I'm scum, so why are you mentioning it at all? You seem to be saying in the same breath that it's a cause for concern.

I had no desire to swap to Poisoner over Role Cop. I expressed interest in changing my vote to it in the post you're talking about in order to see if anyone did have interest in a last-minute swap. That would have really been something.

Doesn't it go without saying that ambiguous reads on players are worth examining? Or am I not understanding you?

 

[Z25]

What did you think the role even was anyways then?

I read the title after a long night and day and thought it was like a forger type of deal. So I voted for it because usually if Mafia fake a role pm there is bound to be a mistake.

I still remember swamp misspelling Eiricka lol.

After I realized it was a very different role I felt kind of dumb. And so I fully read things again with a clearer mind

 

[Thirdkoopa]

I have yet to see one in Day 1 in all the games I've played. Maybe when one thinks they're about to go down? Sure. But on D1? We always have pointless and it most always involves Town.

Not to get into Meta Play but...

Pokechu and I staged conflict w/ each other in Star Wars Mafia that lasted until he died (which I gave them all the bus warn) and Nabe and I quarreled with each other the first day we could talk.

I'd have a hard pressed time believing Maven and Seph as SvS, but, it's not that far fetched.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

I don't understand this viewpoint at all, from a town perspective. If scum came in and swayed the vote: congrats, we've caught 'em. You say that it doesn't make you think that I'm scum, so why are you mentioning it at all? You seem to be saying in the same breath that it's a cause for concern.

I had no desire to swap to Poisoner over Role Cop. I expressed interest in changing my vote to it in the post you're talking about in order to see if anyone did have interest in a last-minute swap. That would have really been something.

Doesn't it go without saying that ambiguous reads on players are worth examining? Or am I not understanding you?

I think we're on the same book right now but on the same page and that's on me for being all over the place, so, I'll try to clear up any ambiguity.

1) I agree that ambiguous reads are worth it, but, my point was that you could have gone for the Z25 posts after we were done with the Day 0 vote. Did you think Poisoner was objectively a far better choice than Role Cop? If yes, you've lost your chance to speak on that. If no, then it's all a moot point and we'll be running in circles over this anyways

2) I'm using this whole thing, especially for anyone that preferred Poisoner, as a reminder for our lynches. I ask all of the players here: When do you think we should be set on a lynch for Day 1? Day ends at 4 PM PST tomorrow. I'd personally say tonight.

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

Interesting that no one responded to my post on Vult, but it's not relevant in the moment, so don't if you would have.

White-hot town read on Chu. As usual, but accentuated by being scum with him last game, it's really clear where his mind is at, and a lot of our views align.

On mobile, more in a bit.

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

I agree that ambiguous reads are worth it, but, my point was that you could have gone for the Z25 posts after we were done with the Day 0 vote. Did you think Poisoner was objectively a far better choice than Role Cop? If yes, you've lost your chance to speak on that. If no, then it's all a moot point and we'll be running in circles over this anyways

This is really far from the response that I expected to the words that I used.

When I asked you, 'Doesn't it go without saying that ambiguous reads are worth talking about?' I was asking about you saying, 'I'm going to keep an eye on people who do this with players.' I'm also asking if that's the correct interpretation of your sentence there.

What do you mean when you say, 'you could have gone for the Z25 posts'? I don't know what posts you mean, or why I would go for them.

On poisoner versus role cop and 'losing my chance', my response to that was in the very post that you just quoted.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

This is really far from the response that I expected to the words that I used.

When I asked you, 'Doesn't it go without saying that ambiguous reads are worth talking about?' I was asking about you saying, 'I'm going to keep an eye on people who do this with players.' I'm also asking if that's the correct interpretation of your sentence there.

What do you mean when you say, 'you could have gone for the Z25 posts'? I don't know what posts you mean, or why I would go for them.

On poisoner versus role cop and 'losing my chance', my response to that was in the very post that you just quoted.

Oh.

I think the ambiguous reads itself was good for discussion. I misinterpreted what they were originally about, since I was focusing on a bigger fish to fry, and at first I thought it was confusing, but in retrospect, it's leading us to a more potent day phase. I'm glad you used that.

Anything else that needs to be cleared here?

 

[Maven89]

I have yet to see one in Day 1 in all the games I've played. Maybe when one thinks they're about to go down? Sure. But on D1? We always have pointless and it most always involves Town.

https://smashboards.com/threads/js-...ros-dilemma-ends-12-22-12pm-est.425615/page-5

Here’s a game where me and Delamar bickered with each other all game as scum partners

 

[Vult Redux]

sorry I'm boo-boo the fool. forgive me??

also. Vote Sephiroths with me? my case is really great, right? For what it's worth I don't think the case hinges on you being a partner with him. It's possible but iirc there was other stuff that made me think you're town. Probably more likely that he wanted to generate fluff and picked on you.

Interesting that no one responded to my post on Vult, but it's not relevant in the moment, so don't if you would have.

Mafia going to ignore me all Day 1 and kill me Night 1 like always.

Also I see you buttering me up by liking my posts. It's not going to work. I'm only against lynching you because the case other people are using is weak. I don't like that you let me put words in your mouth and didn't confirm or respond to it. You're not off the hook.

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

Also I see you buttering me up by liking my posts. It's not going to work. I'm only against lynching you because the case other people are using is weak. I don't like that you let me put words in your mouth and didn't confirm or respond to it. You're not off the hook.

I'm a post liker, it's not just you. If I liked a post where you said words, and those are the words that you mean, then consider the like as a pre-post tag before my actual post, and when I'm here (later tonight), if I don't respond, call me out.

 

[Deleted member]

I read the title after a long night and day and thought it was like a forger type of deal. So I voted for it because usually if Mafia fake a role pm there is bound to be a mistake.

I still remember swamp misspelling Eiricka lol.

After I realized it was a very different role I felt kind of dumb. And so I fully read things again with a clearer mind

You're not really making your case any better considering Death Forger is literally a better version of Janitor/Hider

Not to get into Meta Play but...

Pokechu and I staged conflict w/ each other in Star Wars Mafia that lasted until he died (which I gave them all the bus warn) and Nabe and I quarreled with each other the first day we could talk.

I'd have a hard pressed time believing Maven and Seph as SvS, but, it's not that far fetched.

You did? I... honestly didn't notice lol
goes to show how much I paid attention to

 

[Vult Redux]

@Shishœ vote sephiroth with me? You shouldn't have issues now that Maven's explanation re: distancing.

Fire Emblemier and Moydow too. It's not like you two are doing anything productive with your vote. Might as well help me turn up the pressure.

 

[Z25]

@Shishœ vote sephiroth with me? You shouldn't have issues now that Maven's explanation re: distancing.

Fire Emblemier and Moydow too. It's not like you two are doing anything productive with your vote. Might as well help me turn up the pressure.

Hm got a reason to vote Seph?

Although I agree he seems supicous as I said earlier, he was jumping to go after anyone in a second based on just votes before the game began.

Vote:sephiroth

 

[Vult Redux]

Also I'm curious to see Kantrip's reaction to ThirdKoopa's excuse/reason. If he going to back off immediately because they partners?? Or???

 

[Vult Redux]

Hm got a reason to vote Seph?

Although I agree he seems supicous as I said earlier, he was jumping to go after anyone in a second based on just votes before the game began.

Vote:sephiroth

i don't really get your reason for voting him but I'll take it! I'm not sure if the rules allow hammer votes but if we get the three other players I mentioned should should be close enough to lynching him.

I laid out my rationale in #333. Take a gander and tell me if you agree