PYP mafia! Game over!

[#HBC | Nabe]

Is this not enough of a fight for you, Nabe? Or are you just going to idly watch by as my lynch happens?

But I want you lynched, Dad. And, no, it's not enough. Go way harder.

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

Also, I'm walking through a grocery store right now, and haven't been online since that post.

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

Because Nabe wants you to throw it out.

No. What I'm saying there is that you have this assumption that, on a town flip, your reads will be scripture. Flips and lynch orders are important.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

No, those two posts have the same Z25 read. I called Z25 innocuous in the second post you quoted.

really now?

My post wasn't about Z25, it was about Shish's reaction to Z25.

okay, so does that mean you thought Shish and Z25 were both suspicious?

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

really now?

okay, so does that mean you thought Shish and Z25 were both suspicious?

No. Just Shish.

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

To clarify again since I'm sure you're going to ask again, in the second post you quoted (which was the first of the two in gametime) you asked me who I was saying was innocuous, and I responded that it was Z25 who was innocuous, and the people reacting to Z25 who were suspicious.

 

[Vult Redux]

..Are you sure what you're presuming is 'setting up lynches' is merely not pressure?

I don't agree with ThirdKoopa that Sephiroth's lynch list is necessarily scummy (it's not town either).

However, you can't suggest that his reads are "pressure". He hasn't done anything to pressure me except throw my name out there lol. They are just emotional fmpov. Pressuring would be begging people to vote for him like I did ha.

You're giving Seph WAY too much credit by even suggesting that he's strategically pressuring.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Assuming this is the case, then we get information out of it. Under the case that we don't have a day vig nor any jailer/bus driver saves, we have 3 mislynches to work with.

Seph gives us a boatload of information on about everyone in the game and we rid ourselves of wine. Everyone wins.[/QUOTE]

This is not even close to true lmao, I feel like your confirmation bias is showing and I don't feel you've done enough to piece it together what we actually gain from lynching Seph. On the subject of Information lynching it's almost always bad. More often than not you will have people justifying a lynch based on information and then the next day rolls out and essentially what is talked about is "Well guys we were wrong, let me go reread" and it's not like this complete synchronization that you're implying where the whole game just MAGICALLY opens up because of lynching Seph cause he's a big topic. Even if you weren't implying that, it's still bad reasoning and merely convenient at best

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

EBWOP: Formatting

Assuming this is the case, then we get information out of it. Under the case that we don't have a day vig nor any jailer/bus driver saves, we have 3 mislynches to work with.

Seph gives us a boatload of information on about everyone in the game and we rid ourselves of wine. Everyone wins

This is not even close to true lmao, I feel like your confirmation bias is showing and I don't feel you've done enough to piece it together what we actually gain from lynching Seph. On the subject of Information lynching it's almost always bad. More often than not you will have people justifying a lynch based on information and then the next day rolls out and essentially what is talked about is "Well guys we were wrong, let me go reread" and it's not like this complete synchronization that you're implying where the whole game just MAGICALLY opens up because of lynching Seph cause he's a big topic. Even if you weren't implying that, it's still bad reasoning and merely convenient at best

 

[Pokechu]

o dang soup just ate third

I'm sorry guys for being such an instigator, still catching up, hard to do work and mafia

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

I don't agree with ThirdKoopa that Sephiroth's lynch list is necessarily scummy (it's not town either).

However, you can't suggest that his reads are "pressure". He hasn't done anything to pressure me except throw my name out there lol. They are just emotional fmpov. Pressuring would be begging people to vote for him like I did ha.

You're giving Seph WAY too much credit by even suggesting that he's strategically pressuring.

I agree with you actually, there's not much strategy being put into his pressuring, this is kinda why I felt better about him compared to Third which boils down to perspective

 

[Thirdkoopa]

But I want you lynched, Dad. And, no, it's not enough. Go way harder.

To clarify again since I'm sure you're going to ask again, in the second post you quoted (which was the first of the two in gametime) you asked me who I was saying was innocuous, and I responded that it was Z25 who was innocuous, and the people reacting to Z25 who were suspicious.

Well Son, lynch Seph then, he's committing the same sin you claim that Shish and I were except he's far more aggressive about it.

EBWOP: Formatting



This is not even close to true lmao, I feel like your confirmation bias is showing and I don't feel you've done enough to piece it together what we actually gain from lynching Seph. On the subject of Information lynching it's almost always bad. More often than not you will have people justifying a lynch based on information and then the next day rolls out and essentially what is talked about is "Well guys we were wrong, let me go reread" and it's not like this complete synchronization that you're implying where the whole game just MAGICALLY opens up because of lynching Seph cause he's a big topic. Even if you weren't implying that, it's still bad reasoning and merely convenient at best

You're treating it like it's going to be Lylo as soon as we lynch Seph, which, it's not. Does the game magically open up? No, but, no matter what he flips, we have more to go off of (from my perspective) for Shish, Nabe, Maven, and Kantrip, just to name a few; from your perspective, you'd also gain information on me. Plus, assuming we get a death at Night, we'd also have that flip to work with, too. It's a lot to work with. It won't solve us the game, but, it'll certainly get us more than a Moydow lynch.

Plus that's under the presumption that I think he isn't scum. This was me responding to your initial post about him asking 'what if he's town'.

What makes Seph read so town to you, even after I've laid out my case? And Vult? And Shish? And Z25? What makes Moydow so appealing to you?

 

[Thirdkoopa]

No. What I'm saying there is that you have this assumption that, on a town flip, your reads will be scripture. Flips and lynch orders are important.

Now, why didn't you say that at first? Obviously reads aren't the only thing. We've got Reads of any flipped players, post ISO's, VCA, and more. I'm not expecting my words to be taken as scripture (nor do I want them too) but what you're implying is a 180 of that extreme. Throwing out information is what Scum would want.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Well Son, lynch Seph then, he's committing the same sin you claim that Shish and I were except he's far more aggressive about it.



You're treating it like it's going to be Lylo as soon as we lynch Seph, which, it's not. Does the game magically open up? No, but, no matter what he flips, we have more to go off of (from my perspective) for Shish, Nabe, Maven, and Kantrip, just to name a few; from your perspective, you'd also gain information on me. Plus, assuming we get a death at Night, we'd also have that flip to work with, too. It's a lot to work with. It won't solve us the game, but, it'll certainly get us more than a Moydow lynch.

Plus that's under the presumption that I think he isn't scum. This was me responding to your initial post about him asking 'what if he's town'.

What makes Seph read so town to you, even after I've laid out my case? And Vult? And Shish? And Z25? What makes Moydow so appealing to you?

Your case wasn't convincing, you're scrambling and repeating yourself

 

[Thirdkoopa]

Though, I will concede Nabe that my speech of saying "A boatload of information" was an exaggeration. I have a tenancy to do that with my speech (mostly how I speak) to make things more exciting - He doesn't give us a boatload, but, by comparison, there's certainly a lot to start with for a Day 2 with him.

Meanwhile, I've seen anyone yet to answer where they'll go after my lynch, assuming I'm the Lynch.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

Your case wasn't convincing, you're scrambling and repeating yourself

Okay.

-How about the others? Do you not like all of their cases too?
-If so, what makes a Moydow lynch appealing to you?
-I asked you this before, but, do you think both Nabe and Seph are town? If so, what do you think of Maven?

Answer me these, please, because they're still weighing on my mind. I'm sure the others voting for Seph are just as curious.

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

Though, I will concede Nabe that my speech of saying "A boatload of information" was an exaggeration. I have a tenancy to do that with my speech (mostly how I speak) to make things more exciting - He doesn't give us a boatload, but, by comparison, there's certainly a lot to start with for a Day 2 with him.

Meanwhile, I've seen anyone yet to answer where they'll go after my lynch, assuming I'm the Lynch.

Night talk makes your last sentence irrelevant. Play immediately continues. People should already have a very good idea of who they're talking to by now.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

Night talk makes your last sentence irrelevant. Play immediately continues. People should already have a very good idea of who they're talking to by now.

I've yet to properly play with that (hardly messaged last game; the only person was Fire Emblemier and he contacted me)

What if that information dies with them? All it takes is a swift Night Kill assuming they aren't able to get their information to a townie.

 

[Vult Redux]

I don't really have the time to go into a lot of detail. Trying to catch up on ThirdKoopa stuff so that I can make an informed decision. In short, I thought has responses to the criticism of Day 0 to be pretty good. Kantrip made this post summarizing ThirdKoopa:

ThirdKoopa - Mixed leaning scum

I dislike Koopa's formulaic play. Being concerned with people "pushing last minute wagon switches" is valid, but I fail to see why it was necessary to point out and agree with Nabe on it being strange and seeming like Koop's just reading from a textbook at times. I also really dislike him stating that he's okay with being lynched or vigged if that's what town wants to do. As far as I'm concerned, that's tantamount to claiming Vanilla Townie as it signals to the mafia you don't have a role worth trying to stay alive to use. Potentially worse than Z25's claim because Koops seems more experienced, more level-headed, and was under less pressure when he said this.

Those points aside, his answers with regards to my concern over his Hider support are reasonable to me. I believe him when he says he didn't think it through too much at first and needed time to realize the power of the role. Being honest, I don't think a one-shot jan is THAT much worse than what we gave mafia. I also like Koopa's scumhunting efforts so far. His recent reads list looks genuine where Seph's doesn't and I appreciate his attempt to find connections like the Nabe/Seph dichotomy with Fandango.

I agree with the last paragraph fully.

I think the "pushing last minute wagons" stuff was him just getting wrapped up into a confusing interaction with Nabe (and Nabe tends to write abstractly) so it don't have an issue with it. The point Kantrip made about ThirdKoopa "okay with being lynched" is fair game but I don't see it as something mafia would do and town would not. It's pretty null for me.

For what it's worth, I have agreed with Kantrip a lot this game. He makes great points but I'm leaning more Town on ThirdKoopa.

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

Now, why didn't you say that at first? Obviously reads aren't the only thing. We've got Reads of any flipped players, post ISO's, VCA, and more. I'm not expecting my words to be taken as scripture (nor do I want them too) but what you're implying is a 180 of that extreme. Throwing out information is what Scum would want.

No, what I'm directly stating is that your assumption is false if it's actually an assumption that you hold, which all posts from you prior to this one suggested to be the case. No one is throwing out information, but the information you're providing doesn't appreciate in value if you flip town, whereas if you aggressively pursue a lynch now and it's a scum flip, that's some value.

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

What if that information dies with them? All it takes is a swift Night Kill assuming they aren't able to get their information to a townie.

That's why you talk to more than one person about the things that matter.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Okay.

-How about the others? Do you not like all of their cases too?
-If so, what makes a Moydow lynch appealing to you?
-I asked you this before, but, do you think both Nabe and Seph are town? If so, what do you think of Maven?

Answer me these, please, because they're still weighing on my mind. I'm sure the others voting for Seph are just as curious.

I don't get why this is a us vs them scenario to you and not just people having independent thought that happens to align with yours (in the context of your first bullet point)
I can talk more about my feeling abut Moydow if you want me to
Uhh I dunno but if I had to choose one over the other I'd stake Nabe being more town than Seph. Liked maven from what I saw but it's not super strong

 

[Thirdkoopa]

No one is throwing out information,

No one is throwing out information yet.

but the information you're providing doesn't appreciate in value if you flip town

It doesn't make my reads list magically right, no, I agree there, but it does give you a confirmed Townie's (although a dead Townie) posts to look into.

That's why you talk to more than one person about the things that matter.

And what if that person's judgement is screwed up? Theoretically, going by WCS, their best bet would be to chat with four people (though that's a bit extreme)

 

[Vult Redux]

Is the way Vult was going on about his argument the only reason why you are not town reading him?

For the record, the way I went about getting Seph support is very town. I was trying to get the lurkers out of hiding and turn up quick pressure on Seph because this game is short. I don't play mafia to sit around and twiddle my thumbs until the hour before the deadline.

Anyone who thinks otherwise ( Moydow I'm calling you out) is crackdt or just doesn't like my posting style and needs to re-evaluate their read on me.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

I don't get why this is a us vs them scenario to you and not just people having independent thought that happens to align with yours (in the context of your first bullet point)
I can talk more about my feeling abut Moydow if you want me to
Uhh I dunno but if I had to choose one over the other I'd stake Nabe being more town than Seph. Liked maven from what I saw but it's not super strong

-Ignore my case for a second. Do you think their cases are also bad, or would you be willing to vote Seph today?
-I'd love to hear it. Unfortunately, it's a bit late in the day to change the lynch to him, but, you should voice your case.
-Gotcha. I won't push this point any further since I feel we'll be running in circles.

 

[Vult Redux]

giraffelasergun can we get a vote count?

 

[Thirdkoopa]

. I don't play mafia to sit around and twiddle my thumbs until the hour before the deadline.

i love you

i don't even care what alignment you are

i love you

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

Well Son, lynch Seph then, he's committing the same sin you claim that Shish and I were except he's far more aggressive about it.

Shish's sin wasn't the same, and isn't worth a lynch on its own by any means. It's only gained notoriety and relative importance because of how so many people have talked about that post.

If you're having trouble getting Steph lynched, try posts with no reasoning, a vote, and #HBC, that generally works.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

Vult Redux here you go

Sephiroth: Vult, Z25, Shish, Thirdkoopa (4)
Thirdkoopa: Kantrip, Seph, Moydow, Nabe (4)
Moydow: Soup (1)
Nabe: Fand (1)
Z25: Maven (1)

Note Voting: J, pokechu

 

[Thirdkoopa]

If you're having trouble getting Steph lynched, try posts with no reasoning, a vote, and #HBC, that generally works.

Not in enough to know what you mean about this. Went over my head.

 

[giraffelasergun]

Sephiroth: Vult, Z25, Shish, Thirdkoopa (4)
Thirdkoopa: Kantrip, Moydow, Seph, , nabe (4)
moydow: soup(1)
Nabe: Fand (1)
Z25: Maven (1)
Not voting: J, pokechu

 

[Thirdkoopa]

Pokechu If you liked my posts from before, Vote Seph if you can. I won't bother repeating myself. You know the case already.

 

[Vult Redux]

Maven disappearing makes me salty.

Nabe I haven't been reading your posts lately (sorry!!!). do you think Seph is town? Or is mafia-but-less-mafia-than-ThirdKoopa?

 

[Thirdkoopa]

giraffelasergun How do ties work for this game? I didn't see it anywhere on your rule post.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

-Ignore my case for a second. Do you think their cases are also bad, or would you be willing to vote Seph today?
-I'd love to hear it. Unfortunately, it's a bit late in the day to change the lynch to him, but, you should voice your case.
-Gotcha. I won't push this point any further since I feel we'll be running in circles.

They...don't have cases? I'm not sure if your idea of what is/isn't a case is correct

Ok, sure. I was kinda holding this one and I dunno if I'll get the swing I want but with Moydow's play I think it can be summarized as shadowplay. When I read Moydow's posts, I don't feel like he makes them under the interest of generating discussion rather they're made because it would make him look more townie. He shadows a lot of behavior that is similar to town but lacks the intent. It's like earlier when everyone was making read-lists Moydow comes in and makes a readslist merely a couple of posts after because perhaps he believes that's what a townie does, but I don't think he has been trying to make conclusions to even have a post like that honestly. When it comes to people questioning him, he's cordial, but it all feels insincere. It's like when he is engaged about his Nabe read he has a prepared speech about why he changed his mind instead of a proper conversation that develops over time.

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

I'm interested in an interaction between Steph if scum and another player, so that lynch is not the literal worst thing.

But if you really want some steam, try putting the really good points into a single paragraph for maximum consumption in this, our 22nd century.

 

[Vult Redux]

I'm willing to switch to J last minute if anyone else is.

 

[Kantrip]

Im in class on my last break before deadline.

The ThirdKoopa wagon is making me uncomfortable now I think Im having buyers remorse because the people I like more are on Seph and I feel like Seph and Moydow's presence on the Koopa wagon, in particular, are suspicious.
Soup left it but his vote was okay and substantiated. Nabe is interacting and arguing a lot with Koopa but his vote doesn't feel as explained as much as him just arguing with Koopa about how he shouldnt be okay with his lynch and do a better job of fighting it.

Meanwhile I do feel that Vult's case and methodology in accruing Seph votes was genuine and substantiated. If Seph is scum I think Moydow is a very likely partner, and I, unlike soup, do not think Moydow is scum with Koopa.

 

[Kantrip]

Not willing to switch to J. I think we benefit from the info of seeing one of these wagons through.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

lol Kantrip mindmelding with me about Moydow and I didn't realize it

2018 folks