PYP mafia! Game over!

[Fandangox]

I find myself agreeing with this, with the inclusion of Sephiroth into a town lean. moving Kantrip to neutral and Koopa to scum lean. I don't think Sephiroth's attitude makes him scummy at all and people are confusing being a **** with being mafia.

But you were scumreading him before, why the sudden change?

 

[Fandangox]

2. Vult Redux - I don't really like how he was going around pinging people and telling them "hey, look at my argument against Sephiroth, isn't it great? Now go vote for him." I feel like if your argument is strong enough, people will pay attention to it without you needing to direct them to it. For what it's worth I think his reasoning isn't that bad, but not perfect, and I don't like how he went about pushing it. Could go either way here.

Is the way Vult was going on about his argument the only reason why you are not town reading him?

 

[Sephiroths Masamune]

Hey look, you could have asked for an elaboration earlier! But now that you're on rope, you're pointing it out! I thought I made it pretty obvious, so I'll just state it flat-out: Your behavior to Z25 this whole game reads as opportunistic.

I see you're asking me to clarify. I should clarify what I mean by "Interesting". "Interesting" meant worth of note to re-look at so everyone gander for these particular posts when Seph flips, but, now that the the dust has settled, since I said I was going to wait for your reads list elaboration and I was trying to wait and see what Z25 and Shish would say - I have both of these items now, so, I feel comfortable to this.

If anyone is being opportunistic it's you. You're coming up with a "you should have asked me to do stuff" when I feel like you've just been sitting on half assed reasons that now seem like you need to clarify now that I've pointed it out.

I don't like your beginning Day 0 WIFOM on @Z25. Nabe's initial post started and was trying to get reads, but, honestly, your pushing of it just read as a whole distraction to keep the rest of us away from actually getting anything done with the roles. Plus it reads to me as buddying up with Nabe. None of that interaction reads Town and Town to me - Maybe I'm not used to how you all play, but Maven89 and I spent a pretty good deal of time yelling with flashing lights "GUYS IT'S IMPORTANT TO HAVE A DISCUSSION OVER THE JAILER."

Are you Serious? The only person who talked about it was Nabe and Z25. I was contributing I feel much more to the role discussion than you were, but now you're saying all I did was distract? This seems like floundering for an excuse to me.

#307 - Again, you're keeping this quiet until you can try to get other buddies on board with me. You didn't actively act on it especially when I've been waving my lights saying "We have a deadline".
#366 - Yeah, and you really don't like the way things are moving? Because information is bad for the town?
#375 - Linguistics matter here, but, you never clarified. This reads even more than Nabe's initial post (which, Nabe's initial post on Z25 was just trying to get conversation started, and it did a good job even though I still stick with my opinion on it.

This feels to me like you are just nitpicking and trying to find something that's not there.

Okay, which opening post? If we go by #132 where he says he hasn't caught up on the roles, he thought hammering was in the game.

If we go by once Day 1 started, he had #227, #229, and #252 before he mentioned you. He was far more focused on engaging with @Fire Emblemier, #HBC | Nabe and I about various role choices, Day 0 stuff, and clearing up various things. You asked him for your thoughts on you and then he votes you.

So... his real opening post you're referring to, #258, which is his fifth post of the game, is where he got a good look at the thread and came up with a good reason to vote you.

I'm calling bull**** on this but let's continue!

Like this ****. And it's getting really annoying. Does it really matter if that was his first post or not? I feel like this is added fluff that's not really scum hunting but it apears to be just because it points out technicalities.

...okay? Yeah, and, it was a vote. This same type of pressuring is what pressured Z25 to vote in the first place. I'm kind-of impressed your #2 pick from Scum is that early. If you had more of a reason to vote him, sure? I read through all of his posts, and, here's actually what I came across:



A valid point on his with quoting those posts that ISN'T sheeping. Awesome! What then happens a few posts later?



And then you sheep it because Nabe said it. Because it takes suspicion away from your posts that Shishoe so kindly posted out. Even if you already responded to it with Vult, it wouldn't have hurt to link, especially since Shishoe said he didn't pay attention to see Nabe/Pokechu/I bussing each other in the last game.

So a few things here, it's interesting to point out that you're defending Shishoe. I just want people to take note of this. Next you claim what I said was sheeping. So is it sheeping getting a second more educated opinion of my read on Shishoe since I've never played with him before? If you're really a well educated mafia player playing as town how can you not see this? This screams fake to me.

Yeah, and what about my pregame? Of course you'll say nothing about that because it doesn't put me on the rope as easily, amirite? It's interesting how you only had things to say about me once the day phase starts.

My post-pregame is me answering stuff. If I'm to be real, most of my posts have been me trying to wave the inactives in here or get people into discussion and basically just back and forthing with Nabe. The former seems to have worked thanks to Vult and I. The latter, well, I don't feel Nabe's and my Linguistics Discussion went anywhere, but, everyone else is welcome to pick it apart. They're boring. I'm bored by looking at my post ISO's. I don't think he's as town read as I was originally anticipating (Vult Redux, that is), but hey, at least he's making **** start.

You must really put value in iso's huh? Which is funny because you're also subtly asking others not to do one on you because "I'm boring." I stated multpiple times that your post pregame was fishy and I didn't pursue it because Nabe already had. I felt it was better to put pressure on Z25 instead. I feel like you're really tunneling me right now.

...iunno, we may just be reading different games in here, but, he's pretty consistent to me. This feels like his play in the past game (and the only other game I have experience with him in).

Consistently bad if that's what you mean.

y'know he claimed as you posted that reads list right? Unless your reads list took you 15 minutes. It's kind of amazing how quickly he went from Scum Read to "Y'know he reads Derp Town"

More fake pressure in the form of "did it really take you that long to post?" Yes it did, why does that even matter how long it takes to put my thoughts together again? More fluff with no substance.

horrah, more OMGUS. What information do you think a Vult flip even give us? There's no elaboration in here.

Vote: Sephiroth for the information. Most other possibilities aren't screaming to me and I don't think the town is ready to put Nabe on pressure, nor do I really care about pursuing Shishoe until anyone chooses to draw a case to him that isn't "oh hey he voted seph funny"

I find it hilarious that you think I have need to clairfy my reasoning on Vult flip or I'm scum when you have been less than transparent.

Interested to hear what information you see us getting from a Vult lynch that's more valuable than what the other two would give us.

I think he back peddled a bit with my counter argument and I think it will have damning evidence on Shishoe if he flips scum. It will also clear me if he flips scum.

Seph - Leaning scum

Seph's read list looks agreeable on paper but I get a bad feeling from it. Feels like a mix of safe and OMGUS, the lack of outliers makes me suspect it's not entirely genuine. What I mean to say is, it feels manufactured because it's well-balanced in town-null-scum reads and throws people into said categories seemingly based on their opinion of him.

Particularly perturbed by Z25 being his biggest scumread yet Seph suddenly leans dumb town after the claim.

Don't get me wrong, I agree with this final assessment but I don't see the scumread being genuine before the claim either. I am fairly solid on Z25 at this point, for the record. I could see this being Seph giving himself a back-door should Z25 get lynched to say "well I started having second thoughts on it...."

I feel like my disdain for all my scum reads have been reasonable. And I believe at least for Z25 and 3rd I suspected them before they turned on me. If you had to choose people on my list who fell into the category of OMGUS it would be Vult and Shishœ.

I've said that Z25 been acting dumb/scum this entire game. Would you like me to do a play by play and explain myself? At least as far as right now I don’t think Z25 is the play today.

I wrote this after not getting any sleep due to a major toothache so excuse me if I seem a little irritated. I also feel I could have summarized this by simply saying Third koopa hasn’t posted anything but fluff. I’m going to attempt to sleep again before work. But just in case I’m going to lay down my vote.

Vote: ThirdKoopa

 

[Kantrip]

I highly doubt Seph and ThirdKoopa are mafia together after these interactions between them. It also seems the lynch is shaping up to be between them, and honestly I'm okay with it going either way. Would love to hear people who aren't on either wagon and haven't weighed in on these two players to share their thoughts.

Seph I agree with your take on Z25, my issue stems from your switch from him being your biggest scumread to being a townread based on the claim. I agree with the "dumb or scum" label applying to his play, and I'm not saying you haven't been consistent in calling him as such, but my issue is that I don't think the poorly-timed claim was enough to warrant a sudden shift from one side of that coin to the other. I don't need a play-by-play on it and I agree he's not the play today.

 

[Sephiroths Masamune]

Maybe I’m not that great of a mafia player, but I normally don’t have super strong scum reads day 1. I feel like Day 2+ is where I shine. As far as Z25 is concerned I felt like his claim post was genuine and it was enough to reconsider. I dunno about you, but do you have a strong enough read D1 to unflinching levels? I feel like unless someone seriously ****s something up I don’t normally have hard reads.

 

[Maven89]

But you were scumreading him before, why the sudden change?

It was my reflection on his question and understanding what he was getting at, as well as no longer focusing so much on who was pushing poisoner. Also him dropping his Z25 read when that would be the easiest to push

 

[Vult Redux]

I highly doubt Seph and ThirdKoopa are mafia together after these interactions between them. It also seems the lynch is shaping up to be between them, and honestly I'm okay with it going either way. Would love to hear people who aren't on either wagon and haven't weighed in on these two players to share their thoughts.

I haven't weighed in on ThirdKoopa yet. Have barely read any of his posts. I'll try to catch up before the end of the Day.

 

[Kantrip]

Maybe I’m not that great of a mafia player, but I normally don’t have super strong scum reads day 1. I feel like Day 2+ is where I shine. As far as Z25 is concerned I felt like his claim post was genuine and it was enough to reconsider. I dunno about you, but do you have a strong enough read D1 to unflinching levels? I feel like unless someone seriously ****s something up I don’t normally have hard reads.

The first line is hardly necessary, of course it's not reasonable to expect strong reads on Day 1. I will agree that I think Z25's claim post was genuine. I also think if he was mafia, he would have talked with his partners in the mafia chat about claiming before doing so and wouldn't have done it the way he did.

Of course I don't have strong reads either. Did I give the impression that I do, or are you just trying to deflect my argument? My issue is not that you changed your read. My issue is that I don't see your thought process as organic and genuine in switching your read when you did. That doesn't mean it's impossible you changed your reads organically, it's just the impression I get from it. Your response here doesn't help, however, because you're throwing a bunch of loaded rhetorical questions at me and strawmanning my argument as if I was saying that you are scum for having your mind changed, when that is not the case.

 

[Kantrip]

It was my reflection on his question and understanding what he was getting at, as well as no longer focusing so much on who was pushing poisoner. Also him dropping his Z25 read when that would be the easiest to push

Do you think I'm being unreasonable for not following his change of heart on Z25?

Do you still think Z25 is scum? What do you think of ThirdKoopa and the wagon on him?

 

[Kantrip]

I haven't weighed in on ThirdKoopa yet. Have barely read any of his posts. I'll try to catch up before the end of the Day.

I know his are some of the more bloated posts, but I do appreciate it from you particularly. I do hope you're able to give your thoughts before Day end.

 

[Kantrip]

This should be correct afaik

Sephiroth: Vult, Z25, Shish, Thirdkoopa (4)
Thirdkoopa: Kantrip, Moydow, Seph (3)
Fire Emblemier: Nabe (1)
Nabe: Fand (1)
Z25: Maven (1)

Not Voting: Fire Emblemier, J, Pokechu

I understand Fire is being replaced and J is completely dead, but Pokechu why aren't you voting? Where's your head at?

#HBC | Nabe Fandangox hey

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Hi I'm your replacement, looking forward to playing with u guys again

 

[giraffelasergun]

@#HBC | soup has replaced Fire Emblemier
Updated vote count:

Sephiroth: Vult, Z25, Shish, Thirdkoopa (4)
Thirdkoopa: Kantrip, Moydow, Seph (3)
Fire Emblemier: Nabe (1)
Nabe: Fand (1)
Z25: Maven (1)

Note Voting: J, pokechu, soup.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Why is the tension so high in this game? Good gorf people like chill out. I honestly don't think many of these arguments made against players interest me because they are made under the pretense of expectation and not from observation. Feels like there hasn't been much room to breathe and people insinuating behavior for others in such a way that it's no wonder why J doesn't want to post

 

[Moydow]

Why does your opinion of Seph change based on if we have a jailer or not? If he's town it's not like he'd know what mafia gave us, right?

I suppose I should say that I'd extend that to the other people who pushed for poisoner, as well. Basically, if we got a jailer, then the mafia has good reason to push for poisoner; if we didn't, then they'd have no reason to do so and would rather push for other roles. Though I'm not going to ask PRs to start claiming so we can confirm or deny the existence of a jailer, so really this is probably something I'd keep in mind for later in the game, than something that is important right now.

If I'm to exclude that from my thinking, then I'm willing to let him slide for the moment, though at the same time I won't completely oppose lynching him since it would get some useful information on the table. Still think other targets would be more worthwhile right now, though.

I'm confused about your Nabe read since you like both Maven and Fandango's pushes against him yet say you lean town on him? Could you expand on that?

Once I started to figure out what Nabe was trying to do, then I started seeing him more favourably. Though it took other people engaging and questioning him for me to arrive at that. So it's that me being okay with Nabe is as a result of people pushing for info from him, not that they contradict each other. As for Maven and Fandango, people pushing for more info is usually a good sign of town intent.

Also, just curious what the negative aspects of your "mixed but leaning town" read on me are as you only mentioned the town-leaning aspects of your read.

Probably a better way to say it would have been, I'd like to see more, but what I've seen so far looks reasonable. I know that doesn't sound great coming from me, but it is what it is. :p

Is the way Vult was going on about his argument the only reason why you are not town reading him?

Right now, yes. I'm trying not to just ignore his argument because of it, like I said I do think he makes some valid points, but I do feel like the way in which someone goes about presenting their argument is worth noting as well. The mafia are the ones knowingly pushing mislynches, so it seems to make sense to me that they'd need to push more aggressively on whatever they can find to incriminate someone.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Preemptive vote after reading

Vote: Thethirdkoopa

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Don't really think Seph/Koopa is TvT, giving Seph brownie points because I think his tone is way more pure compared to Thirdkoopa who is essentially provoking Seph into losing arguments by making it seem like he's at fault for not meeting his standards, which is something I alluded to in previous post. Also felt Seph was way more..Vulnerable. Don't really see the agenda in his posts

 

[BarDulL]

 

[Kantrip]

Hi soup, excited to play with you again!

I agree about the tensions but also pleasantly surprised they aren't coming from or caused by me lmao

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

I know we don't have a lot of time, but I'd be willing to lynch any of these 3 today: Shishoe, Third, Vult. I feel like Vult would give us the most information, but I don't think town is ready for it.

????

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

I don't wanna post my reads because so many people have done it already that it wouldn't be unique, I need to remain a passive special snowflake so when the time comes and the weight of town collapses I can pretend I wasn't involved in it's happening

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

That being said I'm OK with Maven/Nabe/Fanny for now, eyeing Moydow personally on the side as some needed spice in this thread and that's about it, cause I get the impression if there's anyone not trying to step on toes it's him

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Actually just realized that Moydow is voting Koopa

bus maybe

 

[Kantrip]

Actually just realized that Moydow is voting Koopa

bus maybe

Is Moydow scum even more likely if Koopa ends up beint town? Also would a Koopa town flip make you wanna lynch Seph 100%?

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Is Moydow scum even more likely if Koopa ends up beint town? Also would a Koopa town flip make you wanna lynch Seph 100%?

It might be? Also..I'm not sure. I find prediction like that can be so illusive and not really useful even if you're just trying to get information cause play is not static and can change over time. Right now Koopa is the main offender and it's obvious that this isn't some elaborate bussing scheme but defaulting to Seph under the pretense of me being wrong would just end up with us talking about the same things we're talking about, except on Day 2. If Koopa is town I'd probably go on Moydow, my comment about bussing was a minor joke that made me tilt my head about the circumstances

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

Skimming but y'all know Koops is a great lynch. Previous vote is on Fire's pre-game, so starting fresh with Soup is alright.

Vote: Thirdkoopa

People reading Vult as scum are weirdos, but I may be biased (respond to my previous post on Vult).

 

[Thirdkoopa]

Why is the tension so high in this game? Good gorf people like chill out.

I do apologize for any tension I've added to this game. To be honest, it's been getting really frustrating (despite being fun at times) to play the linguistics game back and forth; I typically don't take things said towards me personally since I'm used to this game (or at least... I was; knocking out the rust is weird and I like playing far more over hosting) but, as soon as the ganging up on Z25 started, I started to get a bit personal about it.

Going to cool down to make sure this day phase ends on a positive note.

Don't really think Seph/Koopa is TvT, giving Seph brownie points because I think his tone is way more pure compared to Thirdkoopa who is essentially provoking Seph into losing arguments by making it seem like he's at fault for not meeting his standards, which is something I alluded to in previous post. Also felt Seph was way more..Vulnerable. Don't really see the agenda in his posts

Actually just realized that Moydow is voting Koopa

bus maybe

If I'm the Lynch today, which it looks like I am, you all should be starting with Seph and Nabe. I'm not saying that's where you end, but, it's without a doubt where you should start. I'd also look into Kantrip and Shish's posts and whoever dies at night.

I'll respond to everything else. Have a graduate appointment from 1 PST to who knows how long. Afterwards, if votes are still around, I'll claim. No matter how the day ends, Seph or I, I'll be posting a final thoughts list.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

Thirdkoopa there will not be an extension if a day shot is fired out.

Alright. This is important.

6. ThirdKoopa - I have to be honest, I kind of struggle to keep up with this guy. He churns out words at a rate of knots, is telling us he's okay with being lynched/shot, and half of each post is just full of jargon I don't fully understand. Like, what the hell is an ISO? I'm going to assume, given the context, that he's not talking about a disc image file or the International Organisation for Standardisation. Though I will say that it comes off as unnervingly similar to his play from the last game, where he was mafia and intentionally producing stuff like this to make it seem like he was contributing meaningfully ("spewing wine", as he might put it), but his end goal was more or less to make us throw out whatever he was saying. Though I've only played that one game with him, so I don't know if he's just always like this. Leaning more mafia on him at the moment. also he keeps spelling my name wrong he sucks we should definitely lynch him

well... My meta isn't always this ridiculous, but, I do typically go pretty fast, yes. It's either that or I just sit around Day 1.

ISO = Looking back at all the posts from someone in a game. Their posts are isolated.

Right now, for the lynch, I suppose it's between Thirdkoopa, Z25, Vult, and Sephiroth, for me. Of those Thirdkoopa gives me the least comfortable gut feeling, based on what I saw of him last game, so to get a vote out there:

hey look, a meta argument.

also I find it weird that you have Z25 listed as that yet you're at a 50/50? It's day one, but, hey.

For the record, I initially voted Seph because both him and Vult are basically question marks for me in terms of playstyle, I wanted to see what would come out of it and lo and behold, Seph's reactions were something, alright.

Interesting. Well, you certainly helped this day go in one hell of a direction; I'll say that much.

Similarly, your comments about the theory behind optimal timing of vig shots has no bearing on scumhunting or this game as a whole. This is another case where it feels like you're sharing a bunch of "wisdom" in the form of generalized mafia strategy and I find content like this overshadowing any proactive scumhunting from you.

Hey look it's also overshadowing actual scumhunting from you bringing up the comment. Now, by overshadowing, do you mean keep me away from scumhunting? Or do you mean overshadowing my posts?

If the former, I disagree. If the latter, I can see where you're coming from, but, my idea is to flip everything in town's favor, including our town PR's.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

dammit quotes broke

Moydow My meta isn't always this ridiculous but I do typically go pretty fast. It's either that or I just sit around Day 1. ISO = Looking back at all the posts from someone in a game. Their posts are Isolated, ergo, "ISO". Your argument is Meta and your listings of who you're okay with lynching reads as "The Active People"

@Shishœ I find it interesting that you said that. Would you call it a reaction test?

Kantrip You'll need to clarify there, because, wanting to flip everything in the town's favor is not me trying to distance myself from scumhunting. Granted, there was a better time and place for this discussion, and it was the Day 0 discussion. I'll concede to that.

 

[Fandangox]

Kantrip @#HBC | soup
Can you go into detail why you both think Seph vs Koops is not TvT?

As in you guys think its two unaligned players arguing? Or just koopa looking scummier in the exchange? As per soup's #457

 

[Fandangox]

If I'm the Lynch today, which it looks like I am, you all should be starting with Seph and Nabe. I'm not saying that's where you end, but, it's without a doubt where you should start. I'd also look into Kantrip and Shish's posts and whoever dies at night.

Why Kantrip?

 

[Fandangox]

It was my reflection on his question and understanding what he was getting at, as well as no longer focusing so much on who was pushing poisoner. Also him dropping his Z25 read when that would be the easiest to push

Why did you decided to stop looking into people that were pushing poisoner? That was one of your biggest arguments pre-game

 

[Deleted member]

dammit quotes broke

Moydow My meta isn't always this ridiculous but I do typically go pretty fast. It's either that or I just sit around Day 1. ISO = Looking back at all the posts from someone in a game. Their posts are Isolated, ergo, "ISO". Your argument is Meta and your listings of who you're okay with lynching reads as "The Active People"

@Shishœ I find it interesting that you said that. Would you call it a reaction test?

Kantrip You'll need to clarify there, because, wanting to flip everything in the town's favor is not me trying to distance myself from scumhunting. Granted, there was a better time and place for this discussion, and it was the Day 0 discussion. I'll concede to that.

Initially, yeah.
Though my vote is more of an actual vote now after actually seeing his reactions, as I already said.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

If anyone is being opportunistic it's you. You're coming up with a "you should have asked me to do stuff" when I feel like you've just been sitting on half ***** reasons that now seem like you need to clarify now that I've pointed it out.

Yeah I'm opportunistic, baby, I'll admit that.

Opportunistic for information! Booyah.

Are you Serious? The only person who talked about it was Nabe and Z25. I was contributing I feel much more to the role discussion than you were, but now you're saying all I did was distract? This seems like floundering for an excuse to me.

You were contributing, definitely. You, however, joined in on Nabe's distraction.

This feels to me like you are just nitpicking and trying to find something that's not there.

Fair's fair, let's move on.

Like this ****. And it's getting really annoying. Does it really matter if that was his first post or not? I feel like this is added fluff that's not really scum hunting but it apears to be just because it points out technicalities.

...Actually, yes, there is a difference here. If you're going to quote someone for the first post they said in the game, check their first post out.

So a few things here, it's interesting to point out that you're defending Shishoe. I just want people to take note of this. Next you claim what I said was sheeping. So is it sheeping getting a second more educated opinion of my read on Shishoe since I've never played with him before? If you're really a well educated mafia player playing as town how can you not see this? This screams fake to me.

I'm claiming you're singling out Shish, then Nabe says something, and then you hop off of what he's saying instead of just responding to Shish directly.

You must really put value in iso's huh? Which is funny because you're also subtly asking others not to do one on you because "I'm boring." I stated multpiple times that your post pregame was fishy and I didn't pursue it because Nabe already had. I felt it was better to put pressure on Z25 instead. I feel like you're really tunneling me right now.

Oh, no, ISO the hell out of me all you want. Pick apart my posts. Get pedantic with it. Once I flip, I want all of you take out the parts in specific. Don't let my knowledge die to the grave

It's why I'm making sure that, by the end of the day, I get one post in there.

More fake pressure in the form of "did it really take you that long to post?" Yes it did, why does that even matter how long it takes to put my thoughts together again? More fluff with no substance.

more like a really interesting observation on how you went back and forth on Z25 that quickly; an observation that others have actually found interesting.

I find it hilarious that you think I have need to clairfy my reasoning on Vult flip or I'm scum when you have been less than transparent.

hey this is just like my "I find it interesting" posts but worse, especially when multiple people have asked you how Vult wouldgive more information.

I think he back peddled a bit with my counter argument and I think it will have damning evidence on Shishoe if he flips scum. It will also clear me if he flips scum.

you'll be hella disappointed then. sorry bruh

I feel like my disdain for all my scum reads have been reasonable. And I believe at least for Z25 and 3rd I suspected them before they turned on me. If you had to choose people on my list who fell into the category of OMGUS it would be Vult and Shishœ.

You're correct here. I'll give you that much.

I wrote this after not getting any sleep due to a major toothache so excuse me if I seem a little irritated.

Hope you get better soon.

I also feel I could have summarized this by simply saying Third koopa hasn’t posted anything but fluff. I’m going to attempt to sleep again before work. But just in case I’m going to lay down my vote.

I had reads! Reads! And you didn't comment on those!

Maybe I’m not that great of a mafia player, but I normally don’t have super strong scum reads day 1. I feel like Day 2+ is where I shine. As far as Z25 is concerned I felt like his claim post was genuine and it was enough to reconsider. I dunno about you, but do you have a strong enough read D1 to unflinching levels? I feel like unless someone seriously ****s something up I don’t normally have hard reads.

Assuming you're town, we may be better off with seeing you live to Day 2 then over me.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Kantrip @#HBC | soup
Can you go into detail why you both think Seph vs Koops is not TvT?

As in you guys think its two unaligned players arguing? Or just koopa looking scummier in the exchange? As per soup's #457

Latter. If it's TvT then we're clearly on the wrong track, and while is something I considered, I ultimately felt that there are things I'm handwaving about Seph because Koopa in my eyes is worse. As to why he's worse? I talked about it already in short format. I don't feel Koopa is giving Seph a chance to respond to him in a way that is organic or actually progressing his reads, which is a big nono in my book. I'm curious how Koopa is going to act or respond in light of him agreeing to calm down and I am interested in what Seph says more because there was some definite emotions rising. Kantrip pointed out how he felt Seph saying he's not a good mafia player is unnecessary and I think that small tidbit will become important for later reasons, because I want to consider if Seph's behavior earlier where he is sure about some things (ala poisoner) is consistent with him bowing down like that.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

I haven't weighed in on ThirdKoopa yet. Have barely read any of his posts. I'll try to catch up before the end of the Day.

Good. It'll be interesting to hear from you.

I don't wanna post my reads because so many people have done it already that it wouldn't be unique, I need to remain a passive special snowflake so when the time comes and the weight of town collapses I can pretend I wasn't involved in it's happening

While it's a funny post...

nope.avi

Post that reads list. You may have noticed something we haven't.

People reading Vult as scum are weirdos, but I may be biased (respond to my previous post on Vult).

go on

Initially, yeah.
Though my vote is more of an actual vote now after actually seeing his reactions, as I already said.

Good.

Sorry that I couldn't help you, Shish, but, alas.

 

[Deleted member]

Good.

Sorry that I couldn't help you, Shish, but, alas.

I dunno what that's supposed to mean.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

While it's a funny post...

nope.avi

Post that reads list. You may have noticed something we haven't.

I don't feel like you really care as much about this as you're leading on which is my sole problem with you. You get on the offensive and demand demand demand but you've yet to build a solid foundation why u should be listened to lol

 

[Vult Redux]

When's the deadline in EST? I finished my meetings for the day but I have to submit an assignment asap. I don't want to be the reason the town gets screwed over.....

 

[Thirdkoopa]

Latter. If it's TvT then we're clearly on the wrong track, and while is something I considered, I ultimately felt that there are things I'm handwaving about Seph because Koopa in my eyes is worse. As to why he's worse? I talked about it already in short format. I don't feel Koopa is giving Seph a chance to respond to him in a way that is organic or actually progressing his reads, which is a big nono in my book. I'm curious how Koopa is going to act or respond in light of him agreeing to calm down and I am interested in what Seph says more because there was some definite emotions rising. Kantrip pointed out how he felt Seph saying he's not a good mafia player is unnecessary and I think that small tidbit will become important for later reasons, because I want to consider if Seph's behavior earlier where he is sure about some things (ala poisoner) is consistent with him bowing down like that.

Alright, let's simplify the pedanticness. Sephiroths Masamune and Nabe should get over here. This simplifies it down. Beyond Vult's reasoning, here's my personal case on the whole Z25/Nabe/Seph debacle:

I thought Seph was more of a town read starting from Day 0 and then Nabe made a vague post about Z25; I was fine with the initial vague post, but then him and Sephiroth constantly went on it instead of actually voting or pushing the vote in some way. I wasn't opposed to them going after Z25, since it is awfully early, and I'll admit I was a bit biased towards Z25's "I didn't read properly" since I tripped up there too; what I was opposed to was the huge distraction it presented from Day 0 role picking. They buried that until Z25 felt pressured to claim.

And then, moving into Day 1, Seph continues off of Z25 and I trying to set up nooses for both of us and Nabe and I go over words that can't be done anymore, since, we lost that chance to Day 0. As soon as Vult votes him, he pulls "well that's no fair!" and then he does the same thing with Shish. Then, Shish posts a coherrent argument to him and Nabe posts "well gosh his vote is optimistic" and then Seph agrees with that.

It's a lot of "Seph sets up nooses on whoever doesn't like him/whoever he can tie one around easily" and I don't like that. Beyond Vult and Shish's reasoning (who have already provided well grounded reasoning, whether you agree with it or not) he wants to set up a lot of rope. A lot of defensive rope. I don't like that one bit.

If Nabe, Seph, and myself are all town, we're heavily on the wrong track (and I would apologize post game/in the dead PM for that on my end), but, I don't see Nabe/Seph as a town manufacturing. Anyone that does needs to take a good hard look at those posts again once Day 1 finishes up.

Why Kantrip?

Need to take another look at Vult and Shish as they seem to be a common scumread that I don't have much of an opinion on.

this caught my eyes in particular. Especially since, according to the times he's posted at, he's had his time to at least give us more of an update on what he thinks of them.

I don't feel like you really care as much about this as you're leading on which is my sole problem with you. You get on the offensive and demand demand demand but you've yet to build a solid foundation why u should be listened to lol

If you don't feel my above argument was genuine, I don't feel there's much more I can do to convince you.

I dunno what that's supposed to mean.

Help you get a Seph flip. Oh well. I'm hoping you all will be able to use my flip.