PYP mafia! Game over!

[Thirdkoopa]

When's the deadline in EST? I finished my meetings for the day but I have to submit an assignment asap. I don't want to be the reason the town gets screwed over.....

3 EST.

 

[giraffelasergun]

When's the deadline in EST? I finished my meetings for the day but I have to submit an assignment asap. I don't want to be the reason the town gets screwed over.....

7

 

[Deleted member]

Help you get a Seph flip. Oh well. I'm hoping you all will be able to use my flip.

Calm down, you guys are tied and we still have plenty of time. Deadline is in 3 hours still

 

[Thirdkoopa]

Calm down, you guys are tied and we still have plenty of time. Deadline is in 3 hours still

Haha, I'm fine. I've laid out my case for Seph. I'm kind of shocked people are trying to bury what you said about him, to be honest. Let me grab your post that I keep bringing up for reference.

 

[BarDulL]

 

[Thirdkoopa]

Post #377. Seph never responded to this.

Do not trust like that

Each post of yours makes me lean more toward Vult's side. Really liking your reaction.

 

[Fandangox]

this caught my eyes in particular. Especially since, according to the times he's posted at, he's had his time to at least give us more of an update on what he thinks of them.

I hate sounding like a broken record, but if you thought that why not just point it out in the post you brought up? That one Kantrip post is just him saying he's gonna read, which is pointless at worst. Anything else about his play that'd you think it is actually worth looking over?

 

[Kantrip]

It might be? Also..I'm not sure. I find prediction like that can be so illusive and not really useful even if you're just trying to get information cause play is not static and can change over time. Right now Koopa is the main offender and it's obvious that this isn't some elaborate bussing scheme but defaulting to Seph under the pretense of me being wrong would just end up with us talking about the same things we're talking about, except on Day 2. If Koopa is town I'd probably go on Moydow, my comment about bussing was a minor joke that made me tilt my head about the circumstances

Alright, thanks. I ask the first question because I think D1 bussing is unlikely in a case where there is another option and no blatant scumslips and so I doubt Moydow and Koopa are partners. It's possible, but I would be more inclined to look at Moydow on a town flip than a scum flip and was curious if you thought the same.

The other question was because I'm curious why you say you doubt Seph vs Koopa is TvT. I fully agree that it is not SvS, but I'm not discounting the possibility that they both could be town. Especially since you lean to calling Seph town and Koopa scum, I'm curious what made you say they can't be TvT.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

And then, moving into Day 1, Seph continues off of Z25 and I trying to set up nooses for both of us and Nabe and I go over words that can't be done anymore, since, we lost that chance to Day 0. As soon as Vult votes him, he pulls "well that's no fair!" and then he does the same thing with Shish. Then, Shish posts a coherrent argument to him and Nabe posts "well gosh his vote is optimistic" and then Seph agrees with that.

It's a lot of "Seph sets up nooses on whoever doesn't like him/whoever he can tie one around easily" and I don't like that. Beyond Vult and Shish's reasoning (who have already provided well grounded reasoning, whether you agree with it or not) he wants to set up a lot of rope. A lot of defensive rope. I don't like that one bit.

If Nabe, Seph, and myself are all town, we're heavily on the wrong track (and I would apologize post game/in the dead PM for that on my end), but, I don't see Nabe/Seph as a town manufacturing. Anyone that does needs to take a good hard look at those posts again once Day 1 finishes up.

Honestly, I might be biased cause you're the one responding to me but this was all you really needed to say about why you don't like Seph in the amount of time you've spent talking about him. I also noticed what you are saying wrt your second paragraph, and want to consider it. I think that the damage done cannot be well, undone however and I've seen you pull the card "i should prob be lynched" once or twice so..

Mission accomplished?

 

[Fandangox]

Kantrip pointed out how he felt Seph saying he's not a good mafia player is unnecessary and I think that small tidbit will become important for later reasons, because I want to consider if Seph's behavior earlier where he is sure about some things (ala poisoner) is consistent with him bowing down like that.

I can agree with that, but what do you mean important for later reasons? In case we did get a jailer?

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

Koops, if you're not scum, the game is going to devolve into PR reliance and a series of lynches that don't necessarily reflect your reads. Put your game face on and stand up for another lynch rather than saying, "oh, it's okay to lynch me," which Kantrip was too right to call you out on. Your lynch makes sense right now, so this is not a situation where you're going to be listened to postmortem.

 

[Kantrip]

Kantrip @#HBC | soup
Can you go into detail why you both think Seph vs Koops is not TvT?

As in you guys think its two unaligned players arguing? Or just koopa looking scummier in the exchange? As per soup's #457

I disagree with the notion that it can't be TvT and wonder the same of soup. I only claim that I doubt they are both scum.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

I can agree with that, but what do you mean important for later reasons? In case we did get a jailer?

Nah, just might be a good thing to read Kantrip about depending on what Seph flips

Alright, thanks. I ask the first question because I think D1 bussing is unlikely in a case where there is another option and no blatant scumslips and so I doubt Moydow and Koopa are partners. It's possible, but I would be more inclined to look at Moydow on a town flip than a scum flip and was curious if you thought the same.

The other question was because I'm curious why you say you doubt Seph vs Koopa is TvT. I fully agree that it is not SvS, but I'm not discounting the possibility that they both could be town. Especially since you lean to calling Seph town and Koopa scum, I'm curious what made you say they can't be TvT.

It can, but it's not productive and I'd be lying to you if I said that, and really nothing is gained by hiding my pride. What about you? Are you considering TvT?

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

I wasn't opposed to them going after Z25

My post wasn't about Z25, it was about Shish's reaction to Z25.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

I hate sounding like a broken record, but if you thought that why not just point it out in the post you brought up? That one Kantrip post is just him saying he's gonna read, which is pointless at worst. Anything else about his play that'd you think it is actually worth looking over?

It's not that that I have a problem with: it's the names. Kantrip threw out two names, but, the two names in question are the biggest accusers of Seph (with me now joining in for separate reasons) and, fmpov, Kantrip is trying to both buddy up with me by going "his reasoning is logical" and "he makes total sense" so that when I flip, Kantrip can bring back the reasoning he has on his names and go "okay yeah let's lynch one of those two" and when people ask Kantrip about my lynch, he can point to some of his posts and say "Well, I didn't think he was completely lying!"

His understanding of me seems calculated. It's accurate, for the most part, but it's calculated.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

My post wasn't about Z25, it was about Shish's reaction to Z25.

Day 0 or the vote post?

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

Day 0 or the vote post?

Day 0. I never voted for Z25.

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

Koops, if you're not scum, the game is going to devolve into PR reliance and a series of lynches that don't necessarily reflect your reads. Put your game face on and stand up for another lynch rather than saying, "oh, it's okay to lynch me," which Kantrip was too right to call you out on. Your lynch makes sense right now, so this is not a situation where you're going to be listened to postmortem.

Thirdkoopa
What is your read on Maven?

 

[Thirdkoopa]

Koops, if you're not scum, the game is going to devolve into PR reliance and a series of lynches that don't necessarily reflect your reads. Put your game face on and stand up for another lynch rather than saying, "oh, it's okay to lynch me," which Kantrip was too right to call you out on. Your lynch makes sense right now, so this is not a situation where you're going to be listened to postmortem.

"Stand up for another lynch" See, this is what I don't like. Why don't you commit to saying Seph's name? Say for me to convince you to lynch Seph. We're less than 3 hours from the deadline. If we lynch anyone other than Seph and Myself, we're doing a 180.

So let's start here with Seph

How do you feel about him buddying all your posts now that I've brought it to light?

Honestly, I might be biased cause you're the one responding to me but this was all you really needed to say about why you don't like Seph in the amount of time you've spent talking about him. I also noticed what you are saying wrt your second paragraph, and want to consider it. I think that the damage done cannot be well, undone however and I've seen you pull the card "i should prob be lynched" once or twice so..

Mission accomplished?

Reconsider this some. Look at how quickly he tries to dismiss Vult and Shish.

Also, I messed up the time my Graduate appointment is. It's next week, apparently. It keeps getting moved back and I need to message them.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

Day 0. I never voted for Z25.

So the whole thing was about Shish then? Interesting, except, that makes Seph look even worse considering he was able to tighten up the noose on Z25.

Thirdkoopa
What is your read on Maven?

Maven's my biggest town read ATM.

I'm reconsidering a little bit after sleeping over the Z25 shenanigans, but, that's where I last stood.

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

I haven't seen Seph pushing Z25 at all, which is probably a sign of being on mobile and skimming, but when I say 'another lynch' I mean any lynch that isn't your own. I feel like your reads are flatter than I'd like, but that may be old info going by your Maven read which is new to me.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

To anyone voting me: I had everything to lose by going after that wagon, and no reason I had to be urgent on it. Seph's tried tying the knot around four different people on Day 1. Four different people. All in separate instances and even using data brought up against Shish to pressure Z25. Shish, Vult, and I all brought up valid (and different, might I add) points against him. To deny that voting him is a good idea is denying not just my reasoning that I've brought up, but, it's denying all of ours.

Also, no, don't throw out mine or any townie's reads in post mortem. That's what Scum want you to do.

 

[Pokechu]

Life really caught up with me

Huh

Sorry for not being very active this phase, not sure if I'll be able to contribute before Day end either. Deadline is in two hours right?

Kantrip I was voting Z but unvoted because I was falling behind on the thread and didn't think I should vote when I'm not up to date

Idk what's the buzz around Koopa since I'm not caught up but his post now was good imo

 

[Deleted member]

Also, no, don't throw out mine or any townie's reads in post mortem. That's what Scum want you to do.

Why would anyone even do that when the whole point of a flip is to know what and who to trust?

 

[Thirdkoopa]

I haven't seen Seph pushing Z25 at all, which is probably a sign of being on mobile and skimming, but when I say 'another lynch' I mean any lynch that isn't your own. I feel like your reads are flatter than I'd like, but that may be old info going by your Maven read which is new to me.

Let's get started then, shall we?

Something weird here.

Determining what's strange is left as an exercise for the reader.

Just because Emma is your avatar, doesn't mean you can play detective.



But in all honestly, I don't understand what your trying to convey, nor do I think others will. And let's be honest after the last game, getting a town to work with you won't be easy lol.


Also the game hasn't even started, how can you scum hunt? Assuming that's what your doing here.

Z25 makes his initial post here.

I see your point. If we have a tracker then we can easily catch the NK.

I'm not liking Z25's kneejerk reaction there. Kinda just tried to shake off suspicion before anything was even said.

Burying time! Setting up the noose!

I'm not liking it either, but, it's his first PyP (probably?). What I said applies up above; I'm looking at these roles right now.

To the people asking why they feel Rolecop is weak, I'm curious to more.

I just pointed out what I said above, which had a valid point. I was willing to let it slide and was more focused on roles.

I’d rather let them continue tightening the noose instead of being scared off

on this episode of 'who does Maven want to noose' is it Z25? is it shish? let's find out! but based on his posts, it's probably Z25!

Yeah I've never played any mafia in this style. On top of that, knowing the specific role names isn't something I'm great at either, but I know the actual effects.

Regardless like I said, I'm clueless as to what he's trying to suggest though.

And I fully agree he should at least vote or share concrete opinions first rather than being vague on something.

And then Z25 just wants Nabe to stop being vague. Is this really such an unreasonable request?

I don't think a first pyp is an excuse. This is my first pyp and it's just common sense to play the game with the time you're allotted. This seems to me more like trying to deflect rather than a newbie's first mistake.

Instead of trying to listen in on what I have to say, which ended up being the (seemingly) right conclusion anyways, he was immediately prepared to toss out what I say, despite the fact that his buddy Maven and I were pulling the same thing Day 1: Trying to lock in the most reasonable vote.

Nabe, you seem to know what's going on with Z25. Is this a scum tell or a grudge over a past game?

Table that for a sec.

And then, because of this exchange, he gets to drop Z25 until it feels "Convenient" again.

This is Day 0. Let that settle in. You can easily find more on Day 1, but, here's what I got out of the reaction:

Nabe quotes some posts.
Z25 gets a bit defensive because he doesn't know what Nabe is trying to get at, similar to how I did not know. Yes, it's easy for people to reach different conclusions from your post, Nabe.
Sephiroth goes "I don't like it"
I go "I don't like it either but I'm willing to slide since it's early"
Seph dismisses both me and Z25 in one blow.
Sephiroth doesn't pressure Nabe to stop vagueposting and gets less adamant about the role discussion than he was. Seph asks Nabe what his play is. Nabe doesn't answer (It may just be me? But I don't know what "Table that for a sec." means)
Seph gets to conveniently drop the subject and conveniently bring it back up when it's Day 1.

There's a lot of manufacturing here as I was picking out the posts that stood out.

 

[Pokechu]

But I don't know what "Table that for a sec." means)

It means to postpone discussion on that topic

(Wow this is the most significant thief I've said in like a day LOL)

 

[Pokechu]

It means to postpone discussion on that topic

(Wow this is the most significant thief I've said in like a day LOL)

ebwop

Thing*

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

I'm not really getting your logic. There's a lot of people if you were to compare Seph to his antagonistic approach (you yourself, maybe) that have accused someone in the same fashion. Why are they not setting up lynches and just Seph?

 

[Thirdkoopa]

My post wasn't about Z25, it was about Shish's reaction to Z25.

Hey nabe, this is interesting. And by interesting, it means you're changing what you meant awfully fast.

Z25. It was his first post of the game, and when others told him otherwise, he changed the vote to suit. It's something in the response of others that seems anything but innocuous, and that's the question I posed to others.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

I'm not really getting your logic. There's a lot of people if you were to compare Seph to his antagonistic approach (you yourself, maybe) that have accused someone in the same fashion. Why are they not setting up lynches and just Seph?

I wouldn't say it's just Seph, but, Seph is setting up more of them with the least commitment to them. I've been pulling up a few noteworthy posts from Nabe and Maven on my quick-reread journey, if you want to look at those as well.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

I wouldn't say it's just Seph, but, Seph is setting up more of them with the least commitment to them. I've been pulling up a few noteworthy posts from Nabe and Maven on my quick-reread journey, if you want to look at those as well.

..Are you sure what you're presuming is 'setting up lynches' is merely not pressure?

 

[Deleted member]

Please vote Seph it's clear from the moment his wagon started that he's full of ****.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Vote: Moydow

What about this one

 

[Thirdkoopa]

..Are you sure what you're presuming is 'setting up lynches' is merely not pressure?

I've had enough of a read. Let me ask you this: After seeing all this, do you think Nabe and Seph are Town? If so, what's your read on Maven?

Let's continue his Day 1 "case" on Z25, shall we?

I don't know if it's Maven's personality but I really don't like him. His logic is kinda dumb. Like he got on Nabe for not voting for no reason. I think it's because Nabe posted? I also feel like he doesn't know how to answer questions or understand things. I literally asked him what he felt the difference between the two different scenarios and he just ignored it and then said "I already said stuff." Like I'm sensing zero effort from him.I feel like he doesn't read what others say, but at the same time expect others to completely understand him. But that doesn't make him scum I just think I'm going to have a terrible time working with him.

flip-flop on maven flip-flop on maven. (He later on said, ergo, Maven was his biggest town read)

I also don't see how anyone can see Nabe as scum. He's my #1 town read atm. He's asked some really good questions. Like when he asked third what third thought Nabe was onto by asking game rulings. It felt like Third's comment was very forced and presumptuous as if he was trying to blend in and be in agreement when there wasn't anything going on at all.

here's The Manufacturing of Nabe: Using it to tie a noose around me and some hard buddying. This should read as a "Nabe is Town and I trust him" post, but it instead reads as a "Nabe is Town... Actually, lynch Third."

I also don't like Z25. I feel like he's always on the defensive. I want to trust Nabe's opinion of him, but I'm failing to see anything good coming from him.

And then he disregards Nabe's opinion despite Nabe being his "Biggest Town Read". "Because you don't see anything good from him" feels like awfully talking down to him, especially since, just like Vult and Shish, he does provide an argument.

Hm got a reason to vote Seph?

Although I agree he seems supicous as I said earlier, he was jumping to go after anyone in a second based on just votes before the game began.

Vote:sephiroth

Alright, the vote's early, but to be fair, Z25 did mention it and it feels everything he, Nabe, and myself are saying about him fell upon deaf ears.

I do think they agree. The entire point of day 0 was for town to debate the pros and cons of everything. And if after a well thought out argument you don't change your mind, I can agree it raises some flags.

And my vote reasoning was that seph was quick to jump at the throats of those not voting poisoner. See me for example where he immediately went after me for changing my vote.

Yet as you just pointed out that's hypocritical when he wouldn't change his despite some good points made to change it, which is why I changed mine.

Pretty good observation you have here.

Basically Z25 is saying "Seph is indecisive and not-committing" and in agreement with Vult. There really isn't anything complex to read about this; he's just saying "Seph is an opportunistic Scumbag". How does Seph respond?

WTF are you even talking about? Did you even read the thread? Jump at the throats of those not voting poisoner? Name one time I did this? Also quote the post. This is heavily misreading things if not straight up fabrication. Does no one else see how scummy this guy is?

This is not how Town talks to Town. This is how Scum talks to Town trying to get Town lynched. Look at his post about Z25 before. This is then, not trying to understand Z25 (which, keep in mind, between three of us trying to explain Z25 including him himself), this is him trying to ramp the dial from a 2 to a 10.

100% defensive.

You misread. I cleared up what I said later, but mentioning how you cam into this thread and immediately jumped on me.


For someone's first time pvp, your unnecessarily harsh in these posts and its an attitude that screams scum to me. On top of the points vult mentioned, its more than enough to see you as a potential scum. Your came in saw one of the first posts and immediately accused that person ( me) over some honestly dumb reasons.

You went after me for my vote, yet you made sure you slipped by, by voting poisoner. With the target being put on me, you cast your vote and regardless of solid reason to change it, even though you stated you'd change it if given reasons; you didn't.

Z25 mentions a valid point, and guess how Seph responds? You know how this works already: He doesn't. Or he'll respond by trying to make other people look scummier. It doesn't matter if he looks scummy; it just matters to him if someone else looks scummier. Lowest hanging fruit.

I'm just a harsh and critical person. Life isn't a easy road bro.

"i can guise whatever i say under being harsh and critical ;-;"

I've played with harsh and critical players. There's a difference between "Harsh and Critical" and "I am trying to tie the noose around someone."

A few things to mention are, you haven't ever cleared yourself up about what you meant. I have yet to see a post where you do. Also, I never went after your vote, what are you talking about? All I said is you have been playing very defensively and I dislike it when people freak out over small interactions like you have done. I feel like you have very poor reading comprehension and I'm starting to think you're dumb or scum. Especially with your many excuses you've given. You give an excuse that you didn't know the roles at first. You gave an excuse that you are always defensive. You just gave an excuse that you just misspoke in the post I quoted.

Actually... his post makes perfect sense. Again, he literally says "Seph has an aggressive attitude, Seph is opportunistic, and I agree with Vult"

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Spoiler

What happens if Seph is town though

 

[Pokechu]

Dang Third tearing up Seph lol

Still trying to catch up

Third's convincing me to vote LOL

 

[Deleted member]

Spoiler

What happens if Seph is town though

we lynch vult?

 

[Thirdkoopa]

Now, Seph's whole thing with Z25 would be justifiable if he did it once, but he didn't. He doesn't give Z25 any room to breathe and spends most of it belittling him. Soup, can you honestly look back at those posts and tell me he gives Z25 any room to breathe? I asked these questions hoping for more than OMGUS.

Then, he does the same thing with Vult, shaking off anything Vult says and going "Well Vult sucks". I have yet to see any coherrent argument that isn't just "Vult sucks.", especially since Vult put up an actual argument and wants to get discussion going, while Seph wanted to go for the easy Z25 lynch.

Then, with Shish. I've been beating a dead horse. Shish votes him. Seph asks reasoning. Shish gives reasoning. Seph does not respond to said reasoning. Nabe points out how he thinks it's funny. Seph buddies up with Nabe. Seph never addresses Shish. Shish is suddenly a "Suspect". Let's add to how it's fishier: Nabe said his Day 0 post was about Shish, but, earlier in the thread, he says it's about Z25? There's a lie in here and I'm not buying it.

And now, with me, trying to buddy up with Kantrip and going "olol fluff poster; can't contribute anything." when his whole case earlier was siding with Nabe (but going more aggressive) about my responses being manufactured - He's now changing the case to suit whatever fits him.

Spoiler

What happens if Seph is town though

Assuming this is the case, then we get information out of it. Under the case that we don't have a day vig nor any jailer/bus driver saves, we have 3 mislynches to work with.

Seph gives us a boatload of information on about everyone in the game and we rid ourselves of wine. Everyone wins.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

Why would anyone even do that when the whole point of a flip is to know what and who to trust?

Koops, if you're not scum, the game is going to devolve into PR reliance and a series of lynches that don't necessarily reflect your reads. Put your game face on and stand up for another lynch rather than saying, "oh, it's okay to lynch me," which Kantrip was too right to call you out on. Your lynch makes sense right now, so this is not a situation where you're going to be listened to postmortem.

Because Nabe wants you to throw it out. I'm not letting that happen this game. This goes to all flipped Town. Information is our biggest power we have. Hell, Scum ISO's are important too. If everyone isolated my posts in Phantom Mafia, they would have easily put 2 and 2 together and figured out my Scum Buddy was Nabe.

Is this not enough of a fight for you, Nabe? Or are you just going to idly watch by as my lynch happens?

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

Hey nabe, this is interesting. And by interesting, it means you're changing what you meant awfully fast.

No, those two posts have the same Z25 read. I called Z25 innocuous in the second post you quoted.