PYP Mafia - Game Ova

[ranmaru]

Yall say that like its so easy to just discount your own results or that they arent going to sibliminally affect things. Its a lot easier to say "just ignore" than to actually do it

I don't see how it's any different from having a godfather in play and you push past a scum read that has a clear anyway. For example, Dabuz claiming cop in Mafia Sleepover 3 while being obv scummy. Not a godfather but it's the same thing, Dabuz essentially cleared himself by claiming cop but we saw past the bull**** and lynched him. Town won that game.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

I do not oppose the BP claim.

Laundry, ST would only benefit mafia if we somehow forgot we gave them a super tailor in the first place, which would be stupid. Your last sentence is essentially counter picking. Is that not the same as falling in scums hands? We still don't know what they gave us. With ST, we can ignore the results and the worst that can happen is that we use our own dayplay scumhunting skills instead of relying on results. With Poisoner the worst that can happen is a strongman kill. Poisoner is a definite no for me. I think we are all experienced here and wouldn't get easily influenced by an investigative if we give out Super Tailor. I think we can live with a Super Tailor. We literally cannot live with a Poisoner. (Poison is deadly)

Liked for joke

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Yall say that like its so easy to just discount your own results or that they arent going to sibliminally affect things. Its a lot easier to say "just ignore" than to actually do it

Tbh, I wouldn't want to just ignore them. However, I'd be damn sure to be careful what I did with them.

Like, two bingos or two innos are at least one clear/condemn. That information is still valuable.

 

[Orboknown]

I don't see how it's any different from having a godfather in play and you push past a scum read that has a clear anyway. For example, Dabuz claiming cop in Mafia Sleepover 3 while being obv scummy. Not a godfather but it's the same thing, Dabuz essentially cleared himself by claiming cop but we saw past the bull**** and lynched him. Town won that game.

Having to say one player is scum as **** regardless of clear is a lot different thsn trying to say a guilty is fake when hes playing well. And double guessi ng every result

Tbh, I wouldn't want to just ignore them. However, I'd be damn sure to be careful what I did with them.

Like, two bingos or two innos are at least one clear/condemn. That information is still valuable.

fair

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

ranmaru

In terms of orbo/soup, I didn't think orbo was scum in the first place.

In terms of poisoner, I'm dropping it. While I hold fast to my assessment of the bus driver, i realize I'm more wrong than right by pushing for the poisoner. I will not budge on my tailor argument as I think that entire premise is awful.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

My stance on the BP claim is that I don't care, either way. If it happens then alright, if not? Same difference. I don't get why opposing or being for it is so important to you honestly.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

I don't agree with Super Tailor. Decoy/Detective are where my votes are gonna be if I have to put it somewhere. Leaning preference on Decoy only being that scum doesn't know if the person they roleblocked is a PR or not, unlike Detective which can weed him out.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

I cannot stress how tired I am of hearing 'they wouldn't give us an investigative' because my answer to is..says who? Investigative isn't all the powerful as people are making it out to be with the tools being given to the mafia, which is kinda the whole point. I hate talking about this but it is a central point of discussion so I might as well. Ranmaru for example saying ST will give us no harm is just absolutely ridiculous. All roles give us freaking harm.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

I understand some people though and why this matters. While I don't like laundry's angle I understand it, it's just everything else. His Ryker read for example is really weird, despite their experience with each other. It reads as cautious and not even really a full opinion, just basically something that results to null saying it's a gutread on town but there's no basis. What? I can't really follow a gutread if you say that's it's not based on anything or not concrete. I'd expect something more solid from anyone if they're going to throw a read out there. I'm further confused by what he meany by this line:

not really chalking it up as anything important and not letting my own gut get past my reasoning.

It's confusing to me. If it wasn't important why bring it up? What reasoning? Help me understand.

 

[Xivii]

I actually don't really care too much which role we pick sands witch. I think we'll be fine either way, but this is where I am currently:

Detective > Decoy >> Tailor/Poisoner

soup is right in #127. Decoy is a way better option than Poisoner since Decoy is find-and-seek whereas Poisoner is 100%. As for tailor, I just don't think town will simply ignore results even if we say we will. It never works out that way.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Yall say that like its so easy to just discount your own results or that they arent going to sibliminally affect things. Its a lot easier to say "just ignore" than to actually do it

Except that the town investigator - in case we have one and decided to hand out the ST - can simply opt to not make use of his ability at all. He'll pretend he's a Vanilla and all is good in the world.

 

[Xivii]

I think we should all claim bp / no bp and move this show on the road.

Spoiler

not bp

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Not BP.

 

[Orboknown]

Except that the town investigator - in case we have one and decided to hand out the ST - can simply opt to not make use of his ability at all. He'll pretend he's a Vanilla and all is good in the world.

Because thats how its gonna work. If thats the case why not just not chop our prs hands off?

 

[Maven89]

I'm out with friends, I'll get fully caught up and updated tomorrow. I'm suspicious of immediate claims about nuturing our PR and would rather not have decoy, as that's a good block to any town role. Outside of witch, it's the strongest in this game. I'm still in favor of trying to play this to our advantage instead of evening the playing field, their PRs are nothing but counter to our possible PR, cutting our PR down to make it a full vanilla game is the same as letting the mafia pick their own public PR when it comes to balance. It's just giving up

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Except that the town investigator - in case we have one and decided to hand out the ST - can simply opt to not make use of his ability at all. He'll pretend he's a Vanilla and all is good in the world.

That's a recipe for death. Scum makes a protective claim late in the game, they CC. We have to play that 50-50 and they don't have to provide results. Disgusting.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Not BP.

More people should vote for things rather than talking about it so I can visibly track it.

 

[Dabuz]

Hi babes, I seem to have ended up here while name searching, hope you all have a wonderful game <3

 

[ranmaru]

I cannot stress how tired I am of hearing 'they wouldn't give us an investigative' because my answer to is..says who? Investigative isn't all the powerful as people are making it out to be with the tools being given to the mafia, which is kinda the whole point. I hate talking about this but it is a central point of discussion so I might as well. Ranmaru for example saying ST will give us no harm is just absolutely ridiculous. All roles give us freaking harm.

I think Super Tailor would give us the least harm, if we elect to ignore it's influence. This is alongside decoy, which is the safest of them all. So I would compromise to Decoy if no one wants Super Tailor. You and I agree on wanting a vanilla game, so at least maybe you can see where I am coming from? Now you can't just name me now if you don't want to get into the ST argument, but now I want to know what you think of Gheb and Maven's arguments on Super Tailor. I'm making another post, and I just convinced myself of also compromising to detective after decoy. So there's that.

I'm out with friends, I'll get fully caught up and updated tomorrow. I'm suspicious of immediate claims about nuturing our PR and would rather not have decoy, as that's a good block to any town role. Outside of witch, it's the strongest in this game. I'm still in favor of trying to play this to our advantage instead of evening the playing field, their PRs are nothing but counter to our possible PR, cutting our PR down to make it a full vanilla game is the same as letting the mafia pick their own public PR when it comes to balance. It's just giving up

Can you re-state your role preference now (I am not sure if it changed)? I don't see vanillalizing the game is giving up, I think it's helping us level the playing field yes. I feel relying on PR's will slow our actions down instead of boosting us.

Having to say one player is scum as **** regardless of clear is a lot different thsn trying to say a guilty is fake when hes playing well. And double guessi ng every result
fair

It is similar in nature, while being the opposite of guilty. If the player was playing very obv townie, and there's a guilty, I'd think about it hard. It's like Ryker said, I'd also have to be careful knowing that investigative report was probably tainted. Knowing there would be a Super Tailor would make me cautious about a guilty on a player, especially if he does not seem suspicious at all.

 

[ranmaru]

Not BP.

There are only really three roles anyone should consider seriously. That is Super Tailor, Decoy, and Detective. Witch is out because ??? flips won't ever cut it, and poisoner while effectively turning the game into vanilla, gives scum the comfort of killing through armor and anything. For those that prefer poisoner for the sole purpose of vanilla, they should instead look to detective. Detective effectively does the same thing, yet does it in a safer manner. Detective will only slow scum down and give us more time before scum make their move. A poisoner with great dayplay and great nightplay is powerful, while a detective with great dayplay can't nightplay as fast as a poisoner.

Now, decoy is useful with each role, yet do remember it's individual action is the safest and least harmful of all 5. Actually, I'm starting to convince myself decoy is a bit more harmful than Detective. The only thing that gives me pause that, regardless of whoever scum targets, scum will always benefit with information about their target's role. If they had decoy, they'd either have no benefit (hit a non-pr) or benefit strongly (hit a pr and stop his action). So, I was thinking that decoy was fine because the chance would be small for them to benefit, but I think now that their benefit would high reward to scum and high risk to town, while with detective scum would have a for sure low-medium reward but with pin point accuracy, while giving low risk to town but assured risk. I'm weighing it out, and it comes to either the possibility of a PR getting detected n1, but being able to use their role and have information by d2, but risking death n2 and on; or the possibility of scum block a pr n1, taking away one day's worth of information, yet keeping that pr alive. This is on the change scum hit their target n1 with either role, this doesn't take into account the odds. For decoy, it's possible scum would miss a few times before they hit their target, which is not good for scum, but good for town. Like I said before, detective has low-medium benefit for scum but it's assured each time they hit. If there was a chance of there being a town roleblocker in the mix that might mess things up a bit for a detective, the only role I can see confusing a detective is bus driver. So:

Decoy: 1/9 accuracy, but always useful, but there's only one pr. Safest of all the actions, but comes with a high reward for scum and high risk for town.
Super Tailor: 2/9 accuracy, 2/5 useful, but lowered to 0/5 useful if we ignore the 2 possible investigatives. Semi-powerful, as influenced actions are subjective.
Detective: 9/9 accuracy, always useful, but low-medium reward, slow to act. Most powerful information wise for scum.
Poisoner: 9/9 accuracy, 2/5 useful, acts fast. Most dangerous.

Personally, since I prefer vanilla, I'd go Decoy > Tailor > Detective. Poisoner and witch are a no.
If I were interested in the PR game, I'd go Detective > Tailor > Decoy.

I rank Decoy first as it nullfies pr's but that is the only thing it does, it does not give scum information or help them kill, nor does it influence the town in any way, it only takes one night away from town. I rank Tailor as second since it can make the game vanilla only if a majority of the players can comfortably agree to this plan (it seems not everyone does). I rank Detective third since it's slow to act yet power on the information side.

 

[ranmaru]

Vote: Decoy
Compromise: Detective/Super Tailor

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Not BP.

Because thats how its gonna work. If thats the case why not just not chop our prs hands off?

I'm talking about the WCS here - even if we disregarded the unlikelyhood of them giving us a protector to begin with it only has a 2/5 chance of occuring and all that's gonna happen is that the game becomes Vanilla-only. There's a 3/5 chance they gain absolutely nothing and we have a free PR they can do nothing about. With a more than 50% chance of ST being worthless to scum odds are clearly in our favor here.

I don't know why you're just not seeing it.

ST has a much better BCS than Decoy.
ST BCS is much more likely to occur than Decoy BCS.
ST has the same WCS as Decoy.
ST WCS is much less likely to occur than Decoy WSC.

Like, I dont know what's the argue here.

That's a recipe for death. Scum makes a protective claim late in the game, they CC. We have to play that 50-50 and they don't have to provide results. Disgusting.

I feel like youre bull****ting me now.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Why are people still arguing in favor of Decoy. It's objectively a better role for scum to have than ST in virtually every way possible. I just don't get it.

 

[Orboknown]

Not bp. Will get to gheb later

 

[Vult Redux]

have a wonderful game <3

you heard the man

Vote Count: 0.2
Tailor [0]:
Detective [1*]: Ryker
Witch [0]:
Poisoner [0]:
Decoy [1]: Ran

Not voting [7]: Maven, Orbo, Gheb, Laundry, Soup, Ryu, Xivii

With 9 players, it takes 5 votes to hammer.
With the current vote spread, Detective will be hammered at the deadline.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

ranmaru Why are you so hell bent on decoy overall?

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

100% down with bp claim.

Not BP.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Actually, wait, do we know who our PR is yet?

No.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Tailor flips the mafia and one other townie to look like mafia and only happens once. Then we know there is a miller and a Godfather pretty much.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I don't get why there is a push for Decoy, I get it with that they would need to find our PR first but they can screw us over the whole game and make claims awful later.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Except that the town investigator - in case we have one and decided to hand out the ST - can simply opt to not make use of his ability at all. He'll pretend he's a Vanilla and all is good in the world.

Why would this ever be ideal to not use his power?

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

No.

I meant as in, is our PR even informed atm? The last PyP I didn't know until Day 1 started.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

It's an open set-up.

Vult Redux when is the townie informed of the role he will be given.

 

[ranmaru]

I don't get why there is a push for Decoy, I get it with that they would need to find our PR first but they can screw us over the whole game and make claims awful later.

Simply vanilla game. That can be done with ST but there has been major dissention and I am not confident in ST now. I am willing to compromise to detective though.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Simply vanilla game. That can be done with ST but there has been major dissention and I am not confident in ST now. I am willing to compromise to detective though.

Vanilla games have scum win more than 70% of the time.

even with 2 mafia and 11 town, recorded on other sites 66% win rate for town.

PRs are necessary to balance the game out, why are you in favor of this?

 

[Vult Redux]

Vult Redux when is the townie informed of the role he will be given.

town pr is given a town pr pm when i first distribute roles

end of night 0 and before Day 0, I send them an updated PM with the mafia's choice.

 

[ranmaru]

I prefer Dayplay over nightplay and I am confident Dgames can play it right. In a all PR game it comes down to night actions and clears instead of looking at peoples day actions. For example Mavens Monty Python. It turned out to be more PR oriented then about dayplay. I would prefer something similar to my own flavorless mafia.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Why would this ever be ideal to not use his power?

I never said it's ideal?

I'm saying that's how we can turn the game into vanilla-only in the unlikely case that the absolute worst happens.

 

[ranmaru]

Thinking it over, I am switching to detective. Can also be vanilla with this, doesn't block or do anything negative but find information. For people who want dayplay, this is your role since it only gives info and does not impact dayplay at all. For those who want nightplay, you won't get blocked instantly but scum may slowly react the next night.

 

[ranmaru]

Unvote; Vote: Detective