Puzzle League/Panel De Pon General (Former SSB4 Lip Support Thread)

[N. Onymous]

Let's all just agree that if we somehow fall into an alternate universe and another Panel de Pon is released, and there are no fairies in sight, online multiplayer or no - we riot.

(Actually, let's riot anyway. Someone needs to get fired for thinking cutting them was a good idea in the first place...)

 

[Quillion]

I honestly think Planet Puzzle League is superior gameplay-wise to previous iterations. Granted, removing the fairies is inexcusable, but with the touchscreen controls, I really feel like I can set things up as fast as I can think.

Is the problem most people have with Planet the fact that it's too easy? Setting the difficulty to the highest has gets you much faster falling physics, I think.

 

[N. Onymous]

I think the major problem most people have with Planet (gameplay wise) is that it's too floaty, i.e. it doesn't feel as tight or precise as the other games in the series. It's possible they rewrote the code from the ground up. It's not that it's a bad game, it's just that if you start playing it after having grown up on one of the earlier games, you'll have some trouble.

And of course, the lack of fairies or any mascot characters doesn't help... (Vs. Com mode in particular feels especially stale without them.)

 

[Quillion]

I think the major problem most people have with Planet (gameplay wise) is that it's too floaty, i.e. it doesn't feel as tight or precise as the other games in the series. It's possible they rewrote the code from the ground up. It's not that it's a bad game, it's just that if you start playing it after having grown up on one of the earlier games, you'll have some trouble.

And of course, the lack of fairies or any mascot characters doesn't help... (Vs. Com mode in particular feels especially stale without them.)

That's EXACTLY the same problem 64 and Melee players have with Brawl, ironically (or at least that's what they claim; I still think it's the air dodge).

Also, are you playing the game on Beginner? Setting the difficulty higher in Planet makes the falling physics faster.

 

[N. Onymous]

I haven't played the game myself, only watched videos of it (I'm only giving Nintendo my money if we get the fairies back, sorry to say), but it's a common criticism.

Is Beginner the default mode? That may explain some things.

 

[Quillion]

I haven't played the game myself, only watched videos of it (I'm only giving Nintendo my money if we get the fairies back, sorry to say), but it's a common criticism.

Is Beginner the default mode? That may explain some things.

Beginner is just a difficulty setting. In Planet, the difficulty settings simply change the falling physics. Setting it to Expert makes the falling physics about as fast as they were originally.

Of course, that's not to say that Planet is missing a few things, like the fairies (or any characters at all), a 5-color mode, and 3D mode from Pokemon Puzzle League/Panel De Pon GCN. And they don't even have to try to make 3D mode controllable via touch (which would be very difficult); they could just make 3D mode only controllable by buttons.

 

[N. Onymous]

Planet to me seems like an improvement in some ways but a step backwards in many others, though my biggest beef, of course, is with the lack of characters or personality. Rant ahead:

I'll go with an easy comparison: Puyo Puyo had a generic faceless installment too, but it was the first game in the series. Once they adopted the Madou Monogatari characters, they never really looked back. (Well they shook up the cast after Fever, but so did PdP in Nintendo Puzzle Collection.)

So who at Nintendo thought doing the exact opposite of Sega and completely dumping an established, appealing setting with charming characters in favor of an ultra-generic interface would be a good idea? (And they did face heavy fan backlash in Japan for doing this.)

I seriously don't understand. Where is the appeal? What incentive do we as consumers have to buy a game if there's nothing to distinguish it from any other puzzle game on the market? What motivation was there to do this besides "marketing!" or the fear that no one would take it seriously otherwise? You're not adding appeal, you're removing it. It's like taking Dr. Mario out of Dr. Mario (which is incidentally why no one cared or cares about Tetris 2).

And, judging by the 7-and-counting-year drought we've been having of Panel de Pon and the fairy characters in general, Nintendo seems to be blaming consumers for their own poorly-thought-out decision. "Let's take a franchise we already know has appeal and remove any traces of that appeal from it. Oops, no one's buying it! The series is clearly dead! Let's focus on our existing blockbusters and new flavor-of-the-month crap like Codename STEAM instead of showing the franchise's original characters any more love!" Unless you're deliberately trying to kill the series, that's not how things work, guys.

Bright side: At least if Splatoon takes off they won't have the "cute girls don't sell a game" excuse to stand on anymore.

 

[JaidynReiman]

Planet to me seems like an improvement in some ways but a step backwards in many others, though my biggest beef, of course, is with the lack of characters or personality. Rant ahead:

I'll go with an easy comparison: Puyo Puyo had a generic faceless installment too, but it was the first game in the series. Once they adopted the Madou Monogatari characters, they never really looked back. (Well they shook up the cast after Fever, but so did PdP in Nintendo Puzzle Collection.)

So who at Nintendo thought doing the exact opposite of Sega and completely dumping an established, appealing setting with charming characters in favor of an ultra-generic interface would be a good idea? (And they did face heavy fan backlash in Japan for doing this.)

I seriously don't understand. Where is the appeal? What incentive do we as consumers have to buy a game if there's nothing to distinguish it from any other puzzle game on the market? What motivation was there to do this besides "marketing!" or the fear that no one would take it seriously otherwise? You're not adding appeal, you're removing it. It's like taking Dr. Mario out of Dr. Mario (which is incidentally why no one cared or cares about Tetris 2).

And, judging by the 7-and-counting-year drought we've been having of Panel de Pon and the fairy characters in general, Nintendo seems to be blaming consumers for their own poorly-thought-out decision. "Let's take a franchise we already know has appeal and remove any traces of that appeal from it. Oops, no one's buying it! The series is clearly dead! Let's focus on our existing blockbusters and new flavor-of-the-month crap like Codename STEAM instead of showing the franchise's original characters any more love!" Unless you're deliberately trying to kill the series, that's not how things work, guys.

Bright side: At least if Splatoon takes off they won't have the "cute girls don't sell a game" excuse to stand on anymore.

I'm pretty sure Splatoon has both male and female characters.

 

[N. Onymous]

I'm pretty sure Splatoon has both male and female characters.

It does, but the orange female Inkling seems to be the "face" character of the game, given that she was the first Splatoon character to be revealed.

 

[vZakat]

This talk about planet puzzle league made me curious so I dusted off my ds and gave it a go. As before mentioned, it is insanely floaty. The hard mode is only almost like easy on tetris attack (it's still a bit slower). Even still it just doesn't feel right to do things like mid air switches and the like (though you can buffer them with the touch pad lol) The music is unappealing which is also pretty bad for a puzzle game. If you are going to play a game a lot you want to enjoy the music and looking at it. This game has neither. Every other version of this game is better than planet puzzle league.

On a slightly unrelated note, my high score in planet puzzle league was 125K. I could probably do better if a got back in the game. But screw that lol.

 

[Quillion]

This talk about planet puzzle league made me curious so I dusted off my ds and gave it a go. As before mentioned, it is insanely floaty. The hard mode is only almost like easy on tetris attack (it's still a bit slower). Even still it just doesn't feel right to do things like mid air switches and the like (though you can buffer them with the touch pad lol) The music is unappealing which is also pretty bad for a puzzle game. If you are going to play a game a lot you want to enjoy the music and looking at it. This game has neither. Every other version of this game is better than planet puzzle league.

On a slightly unrelated note, my high score in planet puzzle league was 125K. I could probably do better if a got back in the game. But screw that lol.

If nothing else, making chains is still incredibly satisfying; I love making them as fast as I can think without being limited by the button controls.

 

[JaidynReiman]

Fun thing of note, my wife joined a site online and started playing a puzzle game. I caught her playing it briefly and noticed something...


...its the first Panel de Pon-style Puzzle game I've ever seen!


I'm sure there are others out there I haven't found, but this is the first time I found a match 3 puzzle game in the style of Panel de Pon. The grand majority I find are closer to things like Bejeweled or Candy Crush Saga.


Here's the site link:
http://www1.flightrising.com/

Here's the link to the game itself (can't access it without registering, and the site doesn't allow registration at this point):
http://flightrising.com/main.php?p=faire&game=shockswitch


The game is called "Shock Switch." It is HTML5-based, and allows both click-based and keyboard-based gameplay. Probably not as good as a nice controller, but I am interested in seeing how close it is to Panel de Pon. I'll see if my wife will allow me to play on her account later so I can determine approximately how close it is.


Its only a single clear the board style of puzzle, though. I think its also Endless.


Kinda got me inspired to get back to work on that clone engine I was trying to do. I'm still working on the wrapper functions right now, and I ended up including more features from the engine I used as a basis. I haven't started working on the actual physics or anything yet, but I'm getting close to the point where I'll start working on that. I might have a prototype (with barebones graphics) within a couple weeks, but don't quote me on that.

 

[vZakat]

If nothing else, making chains is still incredibly satisfying; I love making them as fast as I can think without being limited by the button controls.

I can definitely see that as an appeal but I haven't had that problem for quite a while. (note: see the vids I've posted)

 

[Lord Viper]

Still to this day I considered Nintendo Puzzle Collection Panel De Pon my all time favorite puzzle game. Makes me wish a sequel to the story would happen, or at least an HD remake. ★

 

[Quillion]

Fun thing of note, my wife joined a site online and started playing a puzzle game. I caught her playing it briefly and noticed something...


...its the first Panel de Pon-style Puzzle game I've ever seen!


I'm sure there are others out there I haven't found, but this is the first time I found a match 3 puzzle game in the style of Panel de Pon. The grand majority I find are closer to things like Bejeweled or Candy Crush Saga.


Here's the site link:
http://www1.flightrising.com/

Here's the link to the game itself (can't access it without registering, and the site doesn't allow registration at this point):
http://flightrising.com/main.php?p=faire&game=shockswitch


The game is called "Shock Switch." It is HTML5-based, and allows both click-based and keyboard-based gameplay. Probably not as good as a nice controller, but I am interested in seeing how close it is to Panel de Pon. I'll see if my wife will allow me to play on her account later so I can determine approximately how close it is.


Its only a single clear the board style of puzzle, though. I think its also Endless.


Kinda got me inspired to get back to work on that clone engine I was trying to do. I'm still working on the wrapper functions right now, and I ended up including more features from the engine I used as a basis. I haven't started working on the actual physics or anything yet, but I'm getting close to the point where I'll start working on that. I might have a prototype (with barebones graphics) within a couple weeks, but don't quote me on that.

There are TONS of Puzzle League clones out there. The problem is that they tend to be cheap knockoffs because they can't capture the subtleties and depth of the real thing. Falling physics tend to disallow the ability to "slip in" a block right after a match stops exploding, and they tend to forget certain unorthodox matches like L-shaped or cross-shaped matches.

I can definitely see that as an appeal but I haven't had that problem for quite a while. (note: see the vids I've posted)

What videos?

 

[vZakat]

What videos?

I posted some of my time attack videos in this thread. If you go back you can see them. I'll also post another one here though It's not my greatest one lol.

Spoiler

 

[JaidynReiman]

There are TONS of Puzzle League clones out there. The problem is that they tend to be cheap knockoffs because they can't capture the subtleties and depth of the real thing. Falling physics tend to disallow the ability to "slip in" a block right after a match stops exploding, and they tend to forget certain unorthodox matches like L-shaped or cross-shaped matches.



What videos?

I've never actually seen one, though. Where are all the ones you've seen?

 

[Quillion]

I've never actually seen one, though. Where are all the ones you've seen?

Mainly on mobile. Here's one of them.

I posted some of my time attack videos in this thread. If you go back you can see them. I'll also post another one here though It's not my greatest one lol.

So it's one of those videos that makes me think I suck. I hope to get to that level, but I can only make 4 chains consistently right now with a few 5 chains here and there.[/

 

[N. Onymous]

Still to this day I considered Nintendo Puzzle Collection Panel De Pon my all time favorite puzzle game. Makes me wish a sequel to the story would happen, or at least an HD remake. ★

I prefer the SNES character designs because they're the ones I'm most familiar with, but all the fairies are my babies.

Of course at this point I'd kill for a new Panel de Pon in general (or an RPG spinoff... wink wink nudge nudge say no more, eh?), so I wouldn't really care which characters we got.

 

[JaidynReiman]

I prefer the SNES character designs because they're the ones I'm most familiar with, but all the fairies are my babies.

Of course at this point I'd kill for a new Panel de Pon in general (or an RPG spinoff... wink wink nudge nudge say no more, eh?), so I wouldn't really care which characters we got.

Funny thing, the game engine I'm basing the Panel de Pon clone engine off of is an RPG engine, I just cut out the RPG elements and several unneeded features, but I kept the map features in case someone would want to do a Story Mode of some sort with actual traversable areas with NPC's and such. This kind of thing I'm not going to test by default, though, I just left it in the code so that could potentially be worked in later.

The main reason I did this is because its the only thing I know of using CanvasEngine right now, and I wanted to use CanvasEngine for it. So I used this script to get a good jumpstart on configuring a wrapper for the whole thing.


If I can get the actual engine to work I'd like to make a plugin version of it for the RPG script in question, so you could have an RPG that sometimes breaks into a puzzle round. But that's not my first priority obviously.

 

[Quillion]

Funny thing, the game engine I'm basing the Panel de Pon clone engine off of is an RPG engine, I just cut out the RPG elements and several unneeded features, but I kept the map features in case someone would want to do a Story Mode of some sort with actual traversable areas with NPC's and such. This kind of thing I'm not going to test by default, though, I just left it in the code so that could potentially be worked in later.

The main reason I did this is because its the only thing I know of using CanvasEngine right now, and I wanted to use CanvasEngine for it. So I used this script to get a good jumpstart on configuring a wrapper for the whole thing.


If I can get the actual engine to work I'd like to make a plugin version of it for the RPG script in question, so you could have an RPG that sometimes breaks into a puzzle round. But that's not my first priority obviously.

Just remember to release some WIP footage if you can.

 

[JaidynReiman]

Just remember to release some WIP footage if you can.

I will once I have it. Keep in mind, I've barely started. I tend to comment a lot during the week because its not to difficult to pop into forums and comment, but I do have work during the week.

 

[4theRECORD]

Man, you guys seem to be doing some cool stuff. I need to find something that I could work on...

By the way, I just happened to check the OP and I realized that my name is not listed in the supporter's list. Mind if you put me there?

 

[Itty Bit]

So I'm sure this has been mentioned before, but I think it's worth pointing out.
Just today I finally got the Lip's stick trophy, and the description for it has no mention of it's origins at all, just what it does in Smash Bros. Add that on top of the fact trophies in this game don't tell where it came from, and (as far as I'm concerned) we have no mention of Panel De Pon or Lip at all, aside from her wand's existence. Ouch.

 

[JaidynReiman]

So I'm sure this has been mentioned before, but I think it's worth pointing out.
Just today I finally got the Lip's stick trophy, and the description for it has no mention of it's origins at all, just what it does in Smash Bros. Add that on top of the fact trophies in this game don't tell where it came from, and (as far as I'm concerned) we have no mention of Panel De Pon or Lip at all, aside from her wand's existence. Ouch.

That's pretty lame...

 

[N. Onymous]

A. Called it. Brawl did this too.
B. Can't say I'm surprised, really.

I'm still really peeved that Rayman was considered more deserving of a trophy than Lip was. Seriously, Nintendo, what the ****. Sell the franchise off already if you hate the characters that much.

Man, you guys seem to be doing some cool stuff. I need to find something that I could work on...

You could try to organize a mass-mailing campaign to let NOA know that the fairies are a lot cooler than they think and that we really miss them. *whichever emoticon you use when you're half-joking only you're really sort of not joking at all and it's more like an open suggestion here*

 

[vZakat]

I tweeted at NOA about that and got no response... Just as expected lol

In other news, I finally developed a good method of panel counting so that I can always have a full stack when I start a chain. It doesn't help hugely with getting higher scores but every little bit counts so I'm happy.

 

[N. Onymous]

I tweeted at NOA about that and got no response... Just as expected lol

Well, they're a major corporation, after all. They don't have to listen to the little guys, even if said little guys have had nothing but feces and disappointment heaped on them for years...

 

[N. Onymous]

Smash Bros. 4 DLC is officially a thing, now that Mewtwo is coming back. Do you think if we make enough noise we could get Lip to join him?

 

[JaidynReiman]

Smash Bros. 4 DLC is officially a thing, now that Mewtwo is coming back. Do you think if we make enough noise we could get Lip to join him?

Unfortunately I find it very unlikely. I wouldn't mind it, though, in fact I'd support the DLC. But I think they'd focus on popular characters. Mewtwo was the first DLC character confirmed, for example. King K. Rool is looking like a likely DLC candidate again due to popularity and high likelihood of him returning to the DK franchise again, and Isaac is still MIA, all of which are quite popular picks. Lip... is a very iffy pick, though she is semi-popular. The only way I see her happening is if a new Panel de Pon game is announced AND the fairies come back. Quite disappointing, too...

 

[Carrill]

At least Lip might get a trophy in the Wii U version... maybe.

 

[N. Onymous]

Unfortunately I find it very unlikely. I wouldn't mind it, though, in fact I'd support the DLC. But I think they'd focus on popular characters. Mewtwo was the first DLC character confirmed, for example. King K. Rool is looking like a likely DLC candidate again due to popularity and high likelihood of him returning to the DK franchise again, and Isaac is still MIA, all of which are quite popular picks. Lip... is a very iffy pick, though she is semi-popular. The only way I see her happening is if a new Panel de Pon game is announced AND the fairies come back. Quite disappointing, too...

This is why I appended "if we make enough noise". We need to let the world know how much we love PDP, how much we miss the fairies, and how much we'd love it if Lip was SSB4 DLC, because if we just leave things alone, nothing will change.

It's a second chance, is the way I look at it. We ought to take it before it's too late.

 

[JaidynReiman]

This is why I appended "if we make enough noise". We need to let the world know how much we love PDP, how much we miss the fairies, and how much we'd love it if Lip was SSB4 DLC, because if we just leave things alone, nothing will change.

It's a second chance, is the way I look at it. We ought to take it before it's too late.

Sure, I'll participate in a campaign to bring PDP back. We should also consider seeing if Project M can add Lip as a playable character, too.

 

[N. Onymous]

It's back to Miiverse for me:

(original post)

#LipForSSB4DLC

 

[Souldin]

It's back to Miiverse for me:

(original post)

#LipForSSB4DLC

Yeah, I think I shall also see about making some Lip support posts while I'm at it.

I do agree with JaidynReiman that she's not all too likely unless a new Panel de Pon game comes out, I can see this DLC being used moreso as a form of advertising for new and upcoming Nintendo games, but there is still a chance. It's worth giving a shot.

 

[JaidynReiman]

Yeah, I think I shall also see about making some Lip support posts while I'm at it.

I do agree with JaidynReiman that she's not all too likely unless a new Panel de Pon game comes out, I can see this DLC being used moreso as a form of advertising for new and upcoming Nintendo games, but there is still a chance. It's worth giving a shot.

They also may not want to go through the effort of creating DLC characters unless they KNOW there's a strong following for said characters. Mewtwo and K. Rool, for example, would both sell like hotcakes. Mewtwo definitely works as a character to introduce DLC. Less popular characters would be more likely to be DLC as a form of promotion instead, which is unfortunate because unless we get Panel de Pon, that makes Lip rather unlikely. I'll definitely support Lip DLC, and I'll always support Lip for Smash, but unless they choose to bring the fairies back I won't ever have any hope for it to happen again.

 

[N. Onymous]

They also may not want to go through the effort of creating DLC characters unless they KNOW there's a strong following for said characters. Mewtwo and K. Rool, for example, would both sell like hotcakes. Mewtwo definitely works as a character to introduce DLC. Less popular characters would be more likely to be DLC as a form of promotion instead, which is unfortunate because unless we get Panel de Pon, that makes Lip rather unlikely. I'll definitely support Lip DLC, and I'll always support Lip for Smash, but unless they choose to bring the fairies back I won't ever have any hope for it to happen again.

Really, if they wanted to bring the fairies back, they might as well start with Smash Bros. (or Mario Kart 8? Hint hint?). It's one of the most visible franchises they have.

 

[JaidynReiman]

Really, if they wanted to bring the fairies back, they might as well start with Smash Bros. (or Mario Kart 8? Hint hint?). It's one of the most visible franchises they have.

I REALLY hope we at least get a few Panel de Pon trophies. But as for bringing the fairies back, if they are planning to bring the fairies back in Panel de Pon, yes, I can see Lip as DLC. That's honestly the only way I can see Lip as DLC, unfortunately, but I'd LOVE to be wrong.

 

[FalKoopa]

Well, should the thread be moved back to the SSB4 character discussion?

 

[N. Onymous]

I think it's good where it is. A general Panel de Pon discussion thread has plenty of room for DLC talk, after all. ^^