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Purpose of the tier list?

The Halloween Captain

Smash Master
Joined
May 20, 2008
Messages
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The northeast
A lot of people want a tier list. Why?

Noobs want it to get an edge over advanced players. However, a noob MetaKinght will not be winning any tournaments anyway. Most people who are experienced already have a general idea of how the characters stack up.

So what is the purpose of a tier list?
 

kr3wman

Smash Master
Joined
Feb 16, 2008
Messages
4,639
A tier list is what characters perform better.

There's no purpose to it, it just exists in every fighting game.
 

LP4Life666

Smash Journeyman
Joined
May 4, 2008
Messages
427
I've been wondering the same thing. The tier list seems to have more negatives than positives in the overall community.
 

Anarkex

Smash Cadet
Joined
Mar 12, 2008
Messages
54
The tier list exists whether it's talked about or not. Since the beginning of time, man has rated stuff.

Tier lists aren't really a good thing, because they cause a lot of simpletons to limit themselves to one or two characters. But there's really no way to stop them, and you can't really get pissed at people for wanting to make them.
 

rayecho

Smash Ace
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668
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Hayward
Why shouldn't there be a tier list? It's nothing more than tournament data stacked up over time. And even if some noob decides to pick the highest character on it, it wont better his chances of winning by much.
 

The Halloween Captain

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A tier list is simple data. Nothing more.
Actually, a tier list is in the Smash sense a combination of tournament data and a (subjective) analysis of character potential rating each character in order of maximum ability at the time the tier list is created. It is a compilation of both objective fact and subjective opinion, and is artificial, not merely generalizations but a precise attempt to rate characters.

Although I am in favor of tier lists, I fail to see how they serve any practical purpose.
 

The Real Inferno

Smash Hero
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Jan 22, 2008
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Usually, if you do not have a tier list, your game isn't taken as seriously as others. It's almost a form of validation in competitive gaming, to have an agreed upon hierarchy. It's just one of those things.
 

BrawlBro

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 19, 2008
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michigan
Why not? Its just something to think about and its cool to look at. It provokes thought, debate, arguments, its a nice little conversation starter.

You don't have to take it seriously or you can base your main on it. Tier lists are just something cool for smash.
 

LCB12321

Smash Cadet
Joined
Dec 2, 2005
Messages
44
The creation of the tier list goes hand in hand with the tournament scene. Without a tier list everyone is blind. When the first list comes out the game will become more serious/competitive and the metagame will advance more rapidly... right now were in the data collecting process stage... or "the beggining"
 

Sosuke

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The creation of the tier list goes hand in hand with the tournament scene. Without a tier list everyone is blind. When the first list comes out the game will become more serious/competitive and the metagame will advance more rapidly... right now were in the data collecting process stage... or "the beggining"
^
What he said.
 

Mic_128

Wake up...
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The creation of the tier list goes hand in hand with the tournament scene. Without a tier list everyone is blind.
Not really. We don't have a tier list, but it's pretty obvious who the best 2 characters are.

It's nothing more than tournament data stacked up over time. And even if some noob decides to pick the highest character on it, it wont better his chances of winning by much.
Rayecho's got it right. Doesn't matter if fox is top tier, if the person sucks as the character, they'll still suck.
 

peeup

Smash Lord
Joined
Sep 3, 2007
Messages
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Hartford/Mass
Well, I like tier lists so that when I beat somebody with low tier characters like Yoshi its more satisfying.
 

SirKibble

Smash Champion
Joined
May 2, 2008
Messages
2,400
Tier lists exist so people can complain about them when they get beat by a higher-tier character.

"OMGZ, u beated my Yoshi wit ur Gay Man Watch. F'n tires... u just had a guder chaructur."
 

Johnthegalactic

Smash Lord
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None of your business
A tier list is a ranking of each character's metagame, based on tournament settings. It is an indicator of how each character is expected to perform, under tournament settings, in relation to the rest of the cast. Thus, tiers measure the potential of each character based on all currently known techniques and strategies that have been shown to be useful in tournaments. Tier lists are common in fighting games as well as many other competitive games involving a large selection of characters.

The tier list does not say anything about any single matchup. For example, if two players are equally matched in skill, and one uses Fox and the other uses Pichu, the tier list alone can not be used to predict the outcome of the match accurately. This is because the tier list looks at a character's overall potential and effectiveness, and individual matchups can be soft or hard counters that affect but do not entirely determine a character's ranking. For instance, in the aforementioned example, if the Fox vs. Pichu matchup was dramatically tipped in Pichu's favor, but Pichu suffered from poor matchups against every other character in the game, it would mean that Pichu beats Fox, but Pichu is still worse than Fox.
 

Jack Kieser

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Jan 11, 2008
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Tier lists, in and of themselves, are fine. The problem is that we abuse them. We either take their findings as law and refuse to play anyone not top tier for fear of losing horribly, or we refuse to play the characters we like (and are GOOD WITH) because they are low tier and we're scared of losing horribly.

If people were able to take the information held within tier lists and use the info to make their own rational decisions about who they would like to play, we'd be all squared away.
 

kr3wman

Smash Master
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Feb 16, 2008
Messages
4,639
There is no reason or purpose to a tier list. It's just there. Abusing it is bad, and complaining that you lost because your character is lower is stupid. That's all there is to it.

@Johnthegalactic : I don't know. I do think that rating a character overall effectiveness is really calculating his match-ups, adding the results overall and comparing it with other characters. If you want a tournament-based tier list, you compare the characters only the those that will be the most popular (High/Top tier characters).
 

Johnthegalactic

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None of your business
There is no reason or purpose to a tier list. It's just there. Abusing it is bad, and complaining that you lost because your character is lower is stupid. That's all there is to it.

@Johnthegalactic : I don't know. I do think that rating a character overall effectiveness is really calculating his match-ups, adding the results overall and comparing it with other characters. If you want a tournament-based tier list, you compare the characters only the those that will be the most popular (High/Top tier characters).
I just took my earlier post off smash wikia, but, I think the lists are more influence by popularity than the actual characters true potential, so, their accuracy is questionable.

I don't really care much, but it would be nice to see my favorite character placed on the top.
 

E.G.G.M.A.N.

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jun 14, 2007
Messages
301
So is there a purpose for a tier list? Not necesarily in the competitive sense as much as a general reason the tier list keeps being developed.
The purpose of the tier list is to inform people of which characters have the best winning ability.
That's the main reason. A tier list isn't really something that you "make", it's just something that already exists. We just want to find out what it is.
 

Vall3y

Smash Lord
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Jul 10, 2005
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a 'purpose' for tier lists i find is to help players that just pick up the game to play competitively to pick a god char
 

hippochinfat!!

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Feb 21, 2008
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So people can know which character's metagame is most developed and who to watch out for.

Also people need to stop saying "People only pick top tier characters because of them!". People won't pick somone because they're top tier if they hate how they play. Top tier characters are good so they're fun to play for most people. Plus you have to consider you're playing for money in tourneys.
 
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