PUNISH ME!! (MK) A Mario guide against "cheap tactics and Hard-to beat scenarios"

[viparagon]

Punish Me!!!​

I decided it was a good time to actually make a good, serious thread, so here goes!
Basically, I'll list a scenario that many players have trouble with, and discussion will ensue with smashers discussing good ways to deal with it. Other character boards have one, and I thought it would be good to breath some life into the Mario boards with some good discussions. These don't have to be tough, and one of the main reasons I made this thread was to prevent all those "OMG!! HOWZ TO YOU BEET MK?!?" threads.
I will be updating the thread every three days or so, so PM me if there are any scenarios you are having trouble with, and I'll think about adding adding it next! If anyone has any tips or suggests about how I should manage the site, also feel free to PM me! This is only my second real thread, so advice would be much appreciated!

Metaknight
Scenario #1

I Just used my Up+b and now I'm gliding towards you! Once I'm close, I'll inevitably use my glide attack and follow it up with a d-smash, nair, or grab! What does poor Mario do?

Best Answer:

You can handle this a large number of ways, but I'll save the best one for last.

First, you can beat MK with the attack by attacking first with a spaced B-air.
Second, you can powershield the hit and Up-B OOS.
Third, you can clash/attempt to beat it with a U-tilt, Up-Smash, or N-air.

My best option: FLUDD him. If he used his Up-B for a glide attack, you can FLUDD him, with induces FIHL and cause his attack to 1) Not hit, and 2) Stay in the air. This'll cause him to go in a helpless animation, where you can Smash him off the stage. Or, if he was at the edge, cape him and make him fall to his doom.

King Dedede!
Scenario #1

I'm a big, ugly penguin! I sit on my big fatass on the edge and spam waddle's until you approach. No matter how you try to approach, I'll just try to sheild grab you, so I can infinite you to 200% and finish you off with a B+throw! Then you can have my big gay dance!

best answer:

from Monk (and HeroMystic sort of)

Mr. Game & Watch
Scenario #1
I REALLY likes mai turtle, And I'll SH it, edge gaurd with it, and basically try to feed you to it whenever possible. PUNISH ME!!


Oh, and whoever gives the best answer gets a Point (why not?)
So far:
Hero: 1
monk: 1

------------------------------------------------​

10/28-established thread, added meta knight
10/30-added dedede
11/04-added GDub

 

[Judge Judy]

Mario's Nair has the same priority as MK's glide atk, Mario's Up B goes through it, and Mario can cape it; I don't see anything tough about that situation other than MK's Up B itself.

 

[viparagon]

thanks for the input, that's exactly what i was looking for. A lot of people I know have problems with it, and I'm sure A lot of Mario mains don't know the specifics.

 

[Chis]

I have no idea where you got the idea to make this thread from or the person who original came up with the idea.

Guess

 

[viparagon]

I have no idea where you got the idea to make this thread from or the person who original came up with the idea.

Guess

I think I saw it on the Olimar boards first. So I take it you don't like the thread

 

[Ray/Boshi]

If your close to the edge, attempt to cape his upB. Hopefully you can get a easy gimp KO in.

 

[HeroMystic]

Vipa, you must've read my mind. I was actually going to make a thread similar to this as well, because we seriously needed something like this.

In any case, I'll lay out my thoughts on the scenario later.

 

[viparagon]

Vipa, you must've read my mind. I was actually going to make a thread similar to this as well, because we seriously needed something like this.

In any case, I'll lay out my thoughts on the scenario later.

Thanks! I was Going go to do d3 edge stalling next, So it would be great to have your imput!

 

[Genos]

ROFL nashua new hampshire

 

[_voRg__]

nothing. nothing counters mk!!!

 

[viparagon]

ROFL nashua new hampshire

woa !! where do you live? Another smasher in NH AND a mario main?!? PM ME!

 

[fromundaman]

Question(s): Does the water gun push away the tornado, or does the tornado cancel out the water? Same question with the drill rush. Basically, is there any MK move that FLUDD could push offstage so he ends in a freefall offstage?

 

[Matt07]

Question(s): Does the water gun push away the tornado, or does the tornado cancel out the water? Same question with the drill rush. Basically, is there any MK move that FLUDD could push offstage so he ends in a freefall offstage?

Yes, FLUUD can push MK when he uses his tornado. And I think he would get hit by FIHL (FLUUD Induced Hit Lag) when he uses his Drill Attack.

And, wow I didn't know N-air has the same priority has a Glide Attack :O.

 

[Genos]

woa !! where do you live? Another smasher in NH AND a mario main?!? PM ME!

Merrimack. Did you post in the Mainemont Hampshire player finder thread yet?

Link!

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=105330

 

[viparagon]

Merrimack. Did you post in the Mainemont Hampshire player finder thread yet?

Link!

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=105330

Thanks man! wow, 15 minutes away!

 

[HeroMystic]

I Just used my Up+b and now I'm gliding towards you! Once I'm close, I'll inevitably use my glide attack and follow it up with a d-smash, nair, or grab! What does poor Mario do?

You can handle this a large number of ways, but I'll save the best one for last.

First, you can beat MK with the attack by attacking first with a spaced B-air.
Second, you can powershield the hit and Up-B OOS.
Third, you can clash/attempt to beat it with a U-tilt, Up-Smash, or N-air.

My best option: FLUDD him. If he used his Up-B for a glide attack, you can FLUDD him, with induces FIHL and cause his attack to 1) Not hit, and 2) Stay in the air. This'll cause him to go in a helpless animation, where you can Smash him off the stage. Or, if he was at the edge, cape him and make him fall to his doom.

 

[SkylerOcon]

The two step guide to beating Meta-Knight with Mario:

1) Spam FLUDD
2) Spam Cape

I said everything you needed to say in the OP in four words. MK does horrible against FLUDD (FIHL) and Cape (all of his recoveries are vulnerable to it).

 

[Monk/Honkey/Banana]

I thought it would be good to breath some life into the Mario boards

Mario boards are pretty active...you can't breathe life into something that is living...

I Just used my Up+b and now I'm gliding towards you! Once I'm close, I'll inevitably use my glide attack and follow it up with a d-smash, nair, or grab! What does poor Mario do?

Shield Grab the Glide Attack or Fludd....it's not exactly a hard scenario

 

[viparagon]

They're active, yes, but when was the last time you saw a new good thread besides mario playstyle?

W/e don't pay attention to anything I say, I'm not that good.
And you can't shield grab it if they release it soon enough, FYI

 

[A2ZOMG]

I have a feeling that the answer to at least half of what this thread will cover is Up-B out of shield.

Why? Because it's amazing for punishing stuff due to the speed, invul frames, and priority.

Oh well, I don't play against MK enough anyhow, so I'll leave the discussion about that guy to you guys.

 

[Monk/Honkey/Banana]

They're active, yes, but when was the last time you saw a new good thread besides mario playstyle?

W/e don't pay attention to anything I say, I'm not that good.
And you can't shield grab it if they release it soon enough, FYI

Every time I have shielded a glide attack I have grabbed MK...fact

 

[Ray/Boshi]

If mario didnt have Fireballs. MK probably would do him in on a 80/20 type of ratio. They stun him & connect way too often because he's always rushing in swinging.

Main two attacks I have difficulty with is his Ftilt & Dair. Everything else he has is above average. Can handle according long as you don't let him overwhelm you with his onslaught.

Regarding the shield grab on MK's upB atttack. You shielded the quick blow, why wouldnt you be able to grab right afterwards?

Uncharged fludd/cape & fireballs are too much though lol. Now if the MK is playing very slowly, patiently and precise. You may have trouble.

 

[viparagon]

Regarding the shield grab on MK's upB atttack. You shielded the quick blow, why wouldnt you be able to grab right afterwards?

because mario's grab range is below average?

 

[Matador]

because mario's grab range is below average?

Still long enough to grab MK while he's right on top of you XD

I usually upB OOS all of MKs approaches...mostly to piss him off, but also because it's pretty safe.

 

[viparagon]

Added dedede! I'd like to get a little discussion

 

[Matt07]

Hmm...use Fireballs to hit Waddle Dees, or use the cape. And aim your Fireballs for DeDeDe. Or you can wait on the edge, what ever you do, don't approach him.

 

[HeroMystic]

Must... refrain... from... calling... out... tactic... from... last night!

It's like... the best tactic ever!

 

[viparagon]

Hmm...use Fireballs to hit Waddle Dees, or use the cape. And aim your Fireballs for DeDeDe. Or you can wait on the edge, what ever you do, don't approach him.

Caping and Fireballing the dees is near useless, since it only stops them and they can jump/beam you later. How bout aproaching with the cape? They can't sheild grab since it spins them around, and dedede doesn't really have any other options for opponents that approach diagonally, soyou can uair after the cape and **** from there, setting up for uair and bair ****, and eventually an offstage gimp.

 

[Genos]

dedede doesn't really have any other options for opponents that approach diagonally.

He can grab you. >_>

 

[Matt07]

Hmm nice suggestion guys. I think we should definately listen to Monk's advice about this, u-air, to up B, on the edge. And spam Fireballs off the edge, he something very similar to that. He would only be able to grab you once if you got grabbed from the edge anyways .

 

[viparagon]

He can grab you. >_>

I meant AFTER you cape him (hes facing other way)

 

[HeroMystic]

Vipa, check out Matador's, Monk's, and my post in the match-up thread. It pretty much answers the D3 question.

 

[viparagon]

Vipa, check out Matador's, Monk's, and my post in the match-up thread. It pretty much answers the D3 question.

Thaniks hero, I did, but could you please summarize just for the sake of this thread? Or anyone for that matter). PLZ?

 

[HeroMystic]

*makes big post*

In order to battle DDD's camping, you must be more of an a$$hole than DDD is. You have to camp both the edges of the stage, which means stealing his edge too. In order to do so, FLUDD him (fully charged) off the stage to steal his edge, then try to gimp him by spamming FLUDD at him to kill his momentum (Fireball spam and aerial WOP also works too). After his fourth jump, he'll be forced to use Up-B, cape it as soon as possible.

If he goes on the offensive, be gay and camp the edge. Avoid the grab and put him in a u-tilt lock. Abuse the shield-grab and d-throw and use U-air to continously rack up damage. Eventually, throw him off the stage, then commence to gimp him. If he makes it back with his Up-B, just grab him or knock him back off with a B-air, then try again.

If there's any chance you screwed up on the damage racking and missed an attack, get out of there and camp the edge again. It doesn't matter how much momentum you had or how much you f*cked up DDD, it's all over if you get grabbed.

'This is the only matchup where you're at liberty to play as gay as you want, so do what it takes. Spam Fludd, spam fireballs, hide in your shield and upB like there's no tomorrow. This is not an auto-loss for those too stupid to counterpick like myself.' ~ Matador

Give credit to Monk since he was the first to think up the camping tactic.

 

[fromundaman]

dedede doesn't really have any other options for opponents that approach diagonally.

Ftilt? Inhale? SH Bair?

Also, quick question on matador's tactic:
When you FLUDD him off, how do you gimp him with FLUDD afterwards? Do you just shoot uncharged shots of it?

 

[HeroMystic]

Half-charge it up then shoot it at him. It'll push him back slightly but more importantly doesn't allow him to get to the ledge. He'll be forced to Up-B.

 

[viparagon]

Half-charge it up then shoot it at him. It'll push him back slightly but more importantly doesn't allow him to get to the ledge. He'll be forced to Up-B.

Alright! thanks for the input! added Gaymenwatch!

 

[Matt07]

I definately think this Thread has good discussion for it. I think we should do a new discussion though.

 

[Judge Judy]

VS the Turtle:

FIHL badly punishes the turtle

Up B goes through the turtle

Nair comes out faster than the turtle

 

[viparagon]

VS the Turtle:

FIHL badly punishes the turtle

Up B goes through the turtle

Nair comes out faster than the turtle

yep, that pretty much somes it up! (thanks so much for the bump matt) ^_^

shall I do the next sneario, or wait abit?