Puff Stuff Part 1: "Strings"

[Triforce of Death]

Hey all, just decided to make a thread showcasing strings of moves that Jiggly might use in combat.



String Usefulness/Application (will be marked as following)

Red = Not much use
Yellow = Some use
Blue = Should know and breathe this string

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Jab -> Fair (Relatively simple, though don't overuse)

Jab -> Grab (Main Jab followup, goes into aerials)

Jab -> iDA (I use this to combo in Nair)

Dtilt -> Aerial (If you can ever land one...)

Utilt -> Uair (Amazing at low percents)

Utilt -> Bair String (If characters have poor recovery, potential 0-Death combo)

SH Bair -> Fair (Fair buffered, works best on larger characters)

SH Bair -> Nair (Nair buffered, works wonders if a Utilt after Nair at low percents)

SH Bair -> Uair (Uair buffered, Utit always almost follows, can be comboed with, say, Nair)

Fair -> Ftilt (My usual string starter)

Dair -> Rest (Only works if character trips)

Dair -> Pound (Creds to my friend the CPU, at low percents combos into Uair/Utilt)

Air Pound -> Uair (Tham abuses this)

Air Pound -> Bair (Situational)

Bair -> Bair (Bair on frame one, Utilt at low percents)

Dash Attack -> Nair (Very nice if you space the Nair)

Pound -> Pound (Make sure to predict their move after the first SideB)

Bair -> Fair (This one is off stage; u se it to finish up a Bair chain for a nice KO, if possible)

Utilt -> Bair (Catches them off guard, can chain into other Bairs)

Nair Strings

FFSourspotNair -> Jab (Land both jabs for some spacing)

FFSourspotNair -> FFSourspotNair (Can chain many times over if at low %'s)

FFSourspotNair -> Dair (When you space the Nair, try to make it so that the Dair comes directly after)

Dair -> Nair (If the Dair trips the oppenent, then you're set)

FFSourspotNair -> Pound (This can lead to a Uair or another Nair)

Pound -> Nair (I sometimes start out a match like this)

Specialty Moves

FFUair-> Rest (Specialty Move by Tham, from his video "100% Resthit". Works at very, very low %'s)
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Last Updated: 1-19-10

Please note that these strings are suggestions and they can be punished. Practice makes perfect. Use at own risk.

 

[Noobicidal]

I'm questioning the usefulness of grounded Pound to Pound, but the list looks nice. You might want to add a section that uses Nair to start the combos, ESPECIALLY with falling soft Nairs.

 

[mountain_tiger]

UTilt chains into itself at <10%.

Dair > Grab is also good if you auto-cancel it.

 

[Mister E]

Are all those blue "combos" supposed to be combos? How would Dash attack to Nair work? :S

The only usefull combos there would be, Air SideB -> Uair if you uptilt the side B and fastfall the upair and uptilt upair. The rest can't be considered combos. Sh Bairs can't be followed up with any other move because it can be shielded, and you're gettign punnished for it

 

[M-WUZ-H3R3]

Pound to u-air would be in yellow.

 

[Mister E]

Pound to u-air would be in yellow.

Shouldn't everything here be Yellow?

 

[M-WUZ-H3R3]

Shouldn't everything here be Yellow?

So true.

Spoiler

The message you have entered is too short

 

[Tham]

Air SideB -> Uair (Tham abuses this)

u know me oO
do i really use that that much?
i have to watch me playing ...

all in all the ftilt is a imo underrated move (jiggs ftilt xD)
i dont use it that often, but i sometimes do it and im very often happy that i use it cause its quite fast xD
in the last few days i often made it after a dair (often ... well, sometimes and it was online, so dunno how it works offline) and if the opponent is alt low percentage, u can sometimes do a cool followup

 

[Timothy2035]

Hey all, just decided to make a thread showcasing "combos" that Jiggly might use in combat.

Please refer to "combos" as combos from here on out.

Combo Usefulness/Application (will be marked as following)

Red = Not much use
Yellow = Some use
Blue = Should know and breathe this combo

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Jab -> Fair (Relatively simple, though don't overuse)

Jab -> Grab (Main Jab followup, goes into aerials)

Jab -> iDA (I use this to combo in Nair)

Dtilt -> Aerial (If you can ever land one...)

Utilt -> Uair (Amazing at low percents)

Utilt -> Bair String (If characters have poor recovery, potential 0-Death combo)

SH Bair -> Fair (Fair inputted on frame one, works best on larger characters)

SH Bair -> Nair (Nair on frame one, works wonders if a Utilt after Nair at low percents)

SH Bair -> Uair (Uair on frame one, Utit always almost follows, can be comboed with, say, Nair)

Fair -> Ftilt (My usual combo starter)

Dair -> Rest (Only works if character trips)

Dair -> Ground SideB (Creds to my friend the CPU, at low percents combos into Uair/Utilt)

Air SideB -> Uair (Tham abuses this)

Air SideB -> Bair (Situational)

Bair -> Bair (Bair on frame one, Utilt at low percents)

Dash Attack -> Nair (Very nice if you space the Nair)

SideB -> SideB (Make sure to predict their move after the first SideB)

Bair -> Fair (This one is off stage; u se it to finish up a Bair chain for a nice KO, if possible)

Utilt -> Bair (Catches them off guard, can chain into other Bairs)

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Last Updated: 11-23-09

nice list. I have been using a few of these combinations, and its helped my Jiggz game a lot. Main thing I have a problem with is the Jab lock set up. (well just doing the jabs is a chore in itself). I also don't DACUS as its hard for me to get it right for right now. Though I really like Jiggz.

 

[Veril]

Only a few of these are actually combos. These are mostly strings, and some aren't even that. D-tilt? lolno. The ones that actually are combos work in a fairly narrow % range. Trip inducing moves are definitely the most reliable source of actual combos for Jiggs in this crappy iteration of smash, so d-air to a lot of stuff strings effectively, and d-air grab works if you time the autocancel just right.


Instead of saying, "input on frame one", use the term "buffered". Instead of calling things "combos" when they aren't actually combos is misleading. You should make note of what are actually true combos (and w/wo DI).

Did you test these frame perfect?

 

[Triforce of Death]

You guys amuse me. Updates coming within the week. Lolz, I never though any if these were legit combos, just string of moves that I use.

iDA -> Nair works at low percents, I use it on medium or heavy characters.

I will add an Nair section for all of you out there

<3 Kira

 

[Timothy2035]

Only a few of these are actually combos. These are mostly strings, and some aren't even that. D-tilt? lolno. The ones that actually are combos work in a fairly narrow % range. Trip inducing moves are definitely the most reliable source of actual combos for Jiggs in this crappy iteration of smash, so d-air to a lot of stuff strings effectively, and d-air grab works if you time the autocancel just right.


Instead of saying, "input on frame one", use the term "buffered". Instead of calling things "combos" when they aren't actually combos is misleading. You should make note of what are actually true combos (and w/wo DI).

Did you test these frame perfect?

Gotcha on the d-air to other moves. I have been doing that with d-air to pound recently against level 9s. Also worked with d-air to grab.

I am rather new to Jigglypuff. I haven't picture perfect nailed a rest everytime, I also need to work on DACUS, and the up air directional pound. I can do the down directional air pound okay.

Is there someway I can maybe play some Jigglypuff people here and let them critique me. I mostly play the weekends in Smash. Like Friday and Saturday nights.

You guys amuse me. Updates coming within the week. Lolz, I never though any if these were legit combos, just string of moves that I use.

iDA -> Nair works at low percents, I use it on medium or heavy characters.

I will add an Nair section for all of you out there

<3 Kira

your list did help me on tryig to think like a Jiggz. I mainly play Pokemon Trainer, so adding Jiggz was a new thing, and Jiggz for the most part seemed hard to get together. I actually dropped Jiggz, but came back and decided to do what I could to improve my odds. I had some rocky starts, but hey I got a few wins recently online, so that helped to make it a better experience. I think now though that I have grown attached to my little pink balloon of puff.

 

[Veril]

You guys amuse me. Updates coming within the week. Lolz, I never though any if these were legit combos, just string of moves that I use.

So, you acknowledge that your use of terminology is misleading, and refuse to respond to any of my other points or explain your data collection methods. I'm not amused.

There is a world of difference between strings. You can best illustrate this with things like the advantage windows and the options other characters have for escape. If you have no intention of looking into this in more detail than this thread is nothing more than questionably educated guesswork.

 

[SR-71]

who cares, stop nitpicking about terminology and data collection methods lol. that overly-scientific approach isn't helpful anyway. it's all about muscle memory, since we have to learn the moves by practice anyway. jiggs is an art, not a science ;] any ideas to simply make jiggs's moves more effective is guud. that's my opinion anyway. a quick video or replay that demonstrates these might be helpful tho

 

[Dre89]

I think Veril's right though (maybe he could have worded it nicer though lol).

His point is that this is stuff can be misleading, because they aren't true combos and they haven't been properly tested. This a problem particularly for newer Puffs, who think they can go carve people up with these 'combos', then get thrown off when all of them get punsihed.

Credit to the TC for going to the effort for it though.

 

[Veril]

who cares, stop nitpicking about terminology and data collection methods lol. that overly-scientific approach isn't helpful anyway. it's all about muscle memory, since we have to learn the moves by practice anyway. jiggs is an art, not a science ;] any ideas to simply make jiggs's moves more effective is guud.

Unless of course the fact that these "combos" are escapable and punishable matters to you. That might be important, but what would I know right? If you think in all the time I've spent working with legit testers and coders who know what they're doing hasn't taught me to distinguish good from bad data... or that Jiggs strings and combos haven't been explored... My old work here is trash compared to the stuff I've produced lately and just trust me, when it comes to evaluating walls of info like this, I know my s***.

Playing the game is an art AND a science.

 

[SR-71]

yeah, obviously you could learn whether a "combo" is escapable by analyzing frame data and all that jazz, or you could learn it from practice. either way, "escapable" doesn't make it obsolete or unusable. you can only learn that from playing the game the way it was meant to be played, using muscle memory and unconscious cues. u don't have time to think in a match, and science is about thinking while art is more about feeling. anyways, i still find this thread more helpful than some meticulous wall of info; and maybe that makes me a noob, but at least i don't have an oversized ego (which is why I play jiggs in the first place :] )

 

[M-WUZ-H3R3]

Playing the game is an art AND a science.

The wise words of...

 

[GeneralWoodman]

The wise words of...

i think hes too short to reach dat table

 

[Veril]

I love you M. Seriously. That's going in every new research thread I make. Ever.

I'll get "hard" hitstun data for vBrawl Jiggs so you can squeeze all of the (hardly any) non-trip combos out of her... after finals.

 

[Tham]

all in all brawl is not made for combos
best way is to space attacks well and hit with a few hitboxes and try to avoid getting punished, punish your opponents moves - just very devensive

if u try a combo that means that u do at least 2 attacks without getting away from your opponent - and against most of the chars this can lead into a hit by your opponent (e.g. Luigi can always make a nair, marth the same)
the only chance is to play devensive, try to make your opponent nervous, hope that hell start to play aggressive, has lag, you can punishe it and maybe ull running towards him, jump, pound2uair, utilt, he airdodges, rest^^
what i want to say: use some of these things in a surprising moment and hope that your opponent is shocked enough for doing things which were good in that moment (fast ariels^^)

 

[M-WUZ-H3R3]

I love you M. Seriously. That's going in every new research thread I make. Ever.

I'll get "hard" hitstun data for vBrawl Jiggs so you can squeeze all of the (hardly any) non-trip combos out of her... after finals.

Veril does in fact miss vbrawl research

 

[Veril]

Veril does in fact miss vbrawl research

I loled. 99% of my research is in GSH (B+ beta set). Out of the remaining 1% most is devoted to MK, because he actually has combos. Of course, I wouldn't share that cause my vBrawl motivation is purely monetary. I really don't like the game.

Jigglypuff hitstun data... well part of it is that I'm really good at collecting frame data manually and I like enough of you to feel that I should test it.

A combo is a sequence of moves landed while the opponent is still in hitstun for all of you who have used that word for literally everything. If they aren't in hitstun, its a string.

 

[g-regulate]

yeah, obviously you could learn whether a "combo" is escapable by analyzing frame data and all that jazz, or you could learn it from practice. either way, "escapable" doesn't make it obsolete or unusable. you can only learn that from playing the game the way it was meant to be played, using muscle memory and unconscious cues. u don't have time to think in a match, and science is about thinking while art is more about feeling. anyways, i still find this thread more helpful than some meticulous wall of info; and maybe that makes me a noob, but at least i don't have an oversized ego (which is why I play jiggs in the first place :] )

have you SEEN my jiggs guide?

 

[Timothy2035]

I love you M. Seriously. That's going in every new research thread I make. Ever.

I'll get "hard" hitstun data for vBrawl Jiggs so you can squeeze all of the (hardly any) non-trip combos out of her... after finals.

that picture was epic wasn't it?! Professor Veril. Sort of has a ring to it.

I loled. 99% of my research is in GSH (B+ beta set). Out of the remaining 1% most is devoted to MK, because he actually has combos. Of course, I wouldn't share that cause my vBrawl motivation is purely monetary. I really don't like the game.

Jigglypuff hitstun data... well part of it is that I'm really good at collecting frame data manually and I like enough of you to feel that I should test it.

A combo is a sequence of moves landed while the opponent is still in hitstun for all of you who have used that word for literally everything. If they aren't in hitstun, its a string.

duly noted. Though what are the moves that creates a "hitstun" for Jiggz?

 

[SR-71]

have you SEEN my jiggs guide?

yeah, if you mean your thread "Jigglypuff Tournament Strategy and Tips"(?) which I found extremely helpful

 

[M-WUZ-H3R3]

yeah, if you mean your thread "Jigglypuff Tournament Strategy and Tips"(?) which I found extremely helpful

His question was rhetorical...

Your comment crossed sides with the ideas in this guide. So no, he is not asking you if "by any chance have you seen his thread you should really check it out."

 

[SR-71]

my comment was supporting this thread, not "crossing sides" with it, whatever that means o_O

 

[Veril]

u don't have time to think in a match, and science is about thinking while art is more about feeling.

That statement is what makes you a noob. I don't crunch numbers in the middle of a match obviously, but having done so before hand means I already know what the optimal followup might be for a lot of situations.

I don't expect anyone here to understand meticulous walls of data, but honestly, all that a combo list needs is:

___ move yields x frame advantage initially. Any move with a negative frame advantage on hit cannot combo AT ALL. See d-tilt. Knowing the frame advantage can help you determine the options your opponent has to break out of a string (since true combos are pretty much non-existent).

OR more simply

Move x to move y:
is a true combo against ____ character in ____ % range.
it can string into ____, ____, ____ on ____ character because they have no options that can be executed in time to prevent the followup. OR they only have one option that is effective (say, airdodging) but predictable and that can be punished.

have you SEEN my jiggs guide?

Yeah, G-reg literally said everything needed to understand the "art" of playing Jiggs (other than timing out matches, which I don't blame him for not including). She's an extremely shallow character in a shallow game.

I care about the science of Jiggs cause I'm a huge geek, not cause it wins matches. Nonetheless... BAD SCIENCE (like this thread) WILL LOSE MATCHES!

duly noted. Though what are the moves that creates a "hitstun" for Jiggz?

All moves with knockback will have some amount of hitstun. Hitstun is so low in vBrawl that it is rarely enough to yield any true combos unless the move is trip inducing (or you can play MK or Diddy)

 

[SR-71]

your complaining is all good and nice, but it is not helpful. maybe you should make a better "combo" thread, or provide a link to one. this thread has already helped me win several matches because i never knew about a few of these combos (or whatever you want to call them). i was getting trapped in one particular play-style and being predictable, this gave me some ideas (like using u-air and u-tilt more). anyways I don't think the game is shallow if you recognize the infinite potential of mind-games; there could be nothing but a control stick, the "A" button, and 1 character and it wouldn't be shallow or easy, imo

 

[Veril]

I already said that making a better combo thread was my intention. AFTER FINALS

Mindgames exist in literally every competitive game. If there are 2 people playing, there are mindgames. That isn't an argument for a games depth.

 

[SR-71]

yeah maybe.. i'd argue the depth of the human mind is reflected in the game. so if the players are shallow, then i agree with you xD but srsly finals week sucksssssss

 

[Veril]

omg, you have no idea. Its like getting ***** by a grizzly bear. Like, I did really well on my ridiculous endocrinology test, than IMMEDIATELY had an essay exam on neuroanatomy (make up ftl). The other student who was taking that test actually started crying. No joke, it was absurd. I also found out that 80% of the same class (same teacher) failed last semester.

2 more tests tomorrow, than one on monday. Then I'm gonna have a party.


Anyway, yeah, I'll take some time to test hitstun for Jiggs now that I've basically had most of this year to perfect my smash research methodology.

 

[M-WUZ-H3R3]

Its like getting ***** by a grizzly bear.

You have forged a filthy image into my mind Veril... an absolutely obscene and grotesque image...

 

[SR-71]

from the sound of those exams, i'd probably choose the grizzly bear. ive never seen someone cry during an exam. mine aren't that bad

incidentally, grizzly bear is the name of a good band tho. couple o songs IF'N U BE BORED
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NwP2R1YEjzg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l8EGuShEsoE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=skcC2ADy_2Y
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tjecYugTbIQ -- vid makes me lol

 

[Veril]

What I'm most interested to see is how hitstun on b-air alters as it becomes stale. I know for a fact WoP can be a true combo given % of opponent, character, spacing, and staleness of the bair.