Pros and cons of every character in smash 4

[Weavile's Wrath]

Crenando can't lay down like a lazy sack o' smug.

B-but...Contorting your leg behind your head to unleash a devastating kick that creates an explosion and breaks shields in one hit? What about a shadow-imbued backhand that releases a storm of darkness around your fist?
And what of launching your foes into the abyss with shadowy downwards kick from the air or a maniacal stomp of the feet...all to reveal you had a sword the whole time.
That is true disrespect.

 

[DakotaBonez]

+ This thread is quickly becoming the boards.
- This thread is getting off track

Pikachu has
Speed
Small Size
Long lasting Aerials

At the cost of being
Launched Easily
Short reach on most attacks
Vulnerable during Specials

 

[vegeta18]

I edited my first post with tons of new stuff, i finished a list with every character in the game but my post seems to stop right after sonic. Is it because there is a limit to how large a single post could be?

 

[ZephyrZ]

I edited my first post with tons of new stuff, i finished a list with every character in the game but my post seems to stop right after sonic. Is it because there is a limit to how large a single post could be?

I looks like you accidentally put the rest of the characters within Sonic's spoiler tag.

 

[vegeta18]

ohhh god dammit lmfao, its all good now, needs a little bit of editing and i need to add the 3 mii fighters. If you guys see any inaccurate data, or have more key points to add, feel free to add your insight, and ill keep updating the first post with new information. Some of the info I was being lazy and barely read over, so will be play testing as much of this as i can, and improving the list as time goes on.

 

[Vermanubis]

I have a bit to add to Ganon.

Spoiler

Pros:
+Incredible combo ability for a slow character (naturally from being a semi-clone of Captain Falcon)
+Heavy and Powerful
+Great tilts, that can ko
+ One of the best Down airs in the game ( if not the best)
+Great reach contributes to his combo ability
+Great Tech Chase move
+Ganoncide, the victim dies first
+Great punishes and hard reads

Cons:
- Slow, gimpable recovery
- A complete lack of a projectile
- Easily juggled
- Punished Easily
- Laggy aerials, esp. big landing lag
- Slow in general
- Lacks combos
- Huge hurtbox

Nothing wrong with this list, but I feel things could be straightened up a bit to reflect his pros and cons as they relate to the overall "Ganon experience."

Pros:
+Heavy
+High KO potential
+Great range, making him good at trading and controlling space
+Great command grab, and by extension, good mix-ups
+Good offstage game and edgeguarding ability
+High combo potential at low percents
+Maybe this can be counted as an inherent trait, but Ganon's scary af. It's tremendously easy to let frustration
and panic get the best of you, which means Ganon has a distinct psychological advantage in some cases.


Cons:
-Very few non-commital moves, i.e. almost everything he does has to be done with preparation for negative consequences, i.e. laggy
-Arguably the easiest character to gimp
-Suffers badly from juggles
-Suffers badly against projectiles
-No OoS game
-Very few options against short characters (can't be Aerudo'd, SH NAir'd, etc.)
-Worst grab range, further limited OoS options
-Majority of moves require hard reads to connect if the opponent isn't habitually offering themselves to you, and by extension, he
-Easily rushed down
-Moves stale badly, since many of his common KO moves are also the ones he uses to rack up damage

 

[Claire Diviner]

Pros:

- Great range and disjointed hitboxes due to Luma.
- Luma can act as a "meat shield" for oncoming projectiles
- Good ground game.
- Has a projectile.
- Can control the stage fairly well.
- Can juggle opponents fairly easily.
- Decent ground speed.
- Has a few good kill moves.
- Recovery has a very long range.
- Can steal projectiles and items.
- Lunar Landing gives her a pressure option.

Cons:

- Rosalina's options become limited without Luma.
- Is a large light-weight target.
- Slow aerial mobility.
- Some of her attacks have noticeable end lag.
- Luma can die soon after it respawns.

I know I probably missed a fair amount of them, but that's the more basic list I can come up with for her.

Also...



Pros:

- Down Throw
- Up Air

Cons:

 

[DavemanCozy]

Change

- Somewhat poor recovery
to
- Somewhat predictable recovery

I think the latter points towards the problem with Fox's recovery more than the first.

 

[zeldasmash]

Link

+Jab 1
+Zair
+Good killing ability
+Many projectiles which can disrupt approaches and can deal a lot of pressure
+Lots of range
+Very good set of smashes
+Can punish air dodges really well
+Can live to high amounts because of being heavy and benefits from rage
+Can rack up damage in a blink of an eye
-Grabs are very situational
-Recovery is not great
-Can get combed pretty hard
-Easily juggled
-Slow

 

[vegeta18]

a few people have written jab 1 as a pro (not just for link, but a few other characters as well) Can you explain this a little bit more? what exactly is good about the jab 1?

 

[Conda]

Some weird points. "Very high skill ceiling" for rob as a con gives the impression the writer didnt know what skill ceiling meant, or makes readers question why its even mentioned, never mind as a con. Not to mention the questionability of the statement in general.

Pit/Dpit's points are just about their comparisons to each other, and not their actual +/- as characters

 

[vegeta18]

+jab 1
-jab 1

Sorry for double post, but yeah stuff like this, i dont know exactly what that means. How is samus` jab 1 a pro and a con exactly? just a bit more expanding on that would be good.

 

[Mintcario]

Pros:
+ Zoning game is incredible
+ Nair provides good coverage
+ Solid kill-throw @ ~110%'ish (Up-throw)
+ Easy to set up walls with
+ Can be played defensively & offensively
+ D-tilt trips often

Cons:
- Prone to combos; heavy character
- Weak against rush-down MUs (Sheik, Sonic, Pikachu, etc..)
- Predictable recovery



Pros:
+ Nair combos into jabs instantly
+ Very heavy damage-output character
+ Flare Blitz is deadly when catching opponent off guard
+ Great at edge-guarding
+ Rock Smash super armor
+ Tilts give good spacing options

Cons:
- Weak recovery
- Slow air movement
- Rock smash is beaten by swords
- Heavy character (able to be combo'd)

 

[vegeta18]

okay just finished updating with all the new info provided thus far as well as added a little blurb about on what this topic is about. Keep up the great work guys ! I`m very happy with the direction this thread has been taking so far.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Cons:
- Weak recovery

But...

Zard has amazing recovery.

Both Fly and Flare Blitz have admirable range and insane super armor.

Why is it considered weak?

 

[TTYK]

That was incredibly uncalled for. It's that type of attitude that gets people banned. I'm actually considering reporting you. If you are going to childishly defend your main at least keep it professional.

Wow, hypocrite much?
Anyway,

+Great Zoning Options
+B-Air
+D-Air
+Mecha Koopa
+Side B into U-air

-Slow
-Laggy Moves
-Laggy Canonnballs (Such a shame)

This is incomplete.

 

[Mintcario]

But...

Zard has amazing recovery.

Both Fly and Flare Blitz have admirable range and insane super armor.

Why is it considered weak?

Fly has a short range imo, and can be gimped with more ease than other recoveries in the game. Flare Blitz for recovering isn't something that I really like doing because it's really risky to pull off.

 

[Jigglymaster]

(with customs)

Pros
+ Fast Air Speed
+ Fast Running Speed
+ Fast Attacks
+ High Jump
+ Pseudo 3rd Jump
+ Edge Cancel-able dive kick
+ Up B deals 17%, has great air mobility, starts on frame 8 making for good OoS option
+ Horizontal Mix-up Recovery is limitless
+ Can combo from d-throw (sometimes comboing into a kill)
+ Has a Meteor Smash
+ Ultimate Uppercut has Super Armor Fully Charged
+ Up Smash has brief invincibility
+ Aggressive character
+ Feels like playing a Melee character
+ Fsmash is incredibly Strong
+ Takes like all the good moves from each fighter (utilt, n-air, up B)
+ Can wall Jump multiple times with Feint Jump
+ Get to play as whoever you want
+ Can combo Ledged cancel FJ into HK


Cons
- Has no range
- Has the worst vertical recovery in the game
- F-smash only hits on frame 17
- Feint Jump has no invincibility
- Struggles to kill opponents higher than 80%
- Lacks a decent projectile
- Onslaught heavily punishable on shield
- Strongest Air attack can't kill until 140% (B-air)
- Throws lose comboing ability at 80% and can't kill until 200%
- Doesn't get to play on For Glory
- Default Moveset is terrible
- Usually limited to boring Guest Miis
- One of the worst Rapid Jab combos
- All smash attacks are unreliable kill moves for either being too weak or slow
- None of his tilts kill
- U-air hardly has any hitstun

Mixed
+- Ledge getup invincibility longer than other characters, requires different timing. Works out well first until the opponent learns this and has more time to punish

 

[muddykips]

Adding a few more to ...

+ Can literally eat shields from the air
+ Fair is quick, can meteor, can combo [into kills], and has a low hitbox during landing lag animation

- UpB doesn't reset upon grabbing a ledge
- Throws don't kill nor combo into anything

 

[Poupoko]

Spoiler

Pros:
-few landing lag on his moves
-can crouch very low and duck under attacks
- nice combo strings and follow ups
-multiple jumps so difficult to gimp
- copy abilities last longer than brawl
-nice grab game and good pummel
-kill throws
+Great, long distance recovery
+Fantastic edge-guarding game
+Very low crouch (possibly the lowest in the game)

Cons:
-he's light
-he has trouble approaching
-difficult position when against heavy projectile characters
-difficulties to kill the opponent
- specials are not really useful
-bad mobility
-short ranged attacks

Some of those are redundant, and others are not accurate. I'd say it goes something like this:
+ little landing lag
+ low crouch (defensive buffer)
+ low percent strings
+ decent damage per hit
+ multiple jumps (above average recovery, difficult to gimp outside of final cutter)

- 3rd lightest
- low range
- bad mobility (ground and air)
- very situational / unusable specials
- below average KO power

Kirby's throws don't reliably combo nor KO until percents where other characters can KO with their throws. Also, edgeguarding with Kirby can be risky due to lack of range and air mobility.

 

[SwoodGrommet]

Pros
+ His D-Throw combos into his Up-Smash and all of his aerials.
+ Excellent disjoint Dash Attack can lead into strings.
+ Good spacing options with F-Tilt, D-Tilt, 123 Jab and Fair.
+ Dair can Spike.
+ Excellent Dash and Pivot Grab.
+ Is proficient in sharking under platforms with Up-Smash.
+ One of the best Gimpers in the game i.e. Light Arrows.
+ Uair also allows for creative combos and follow-ups.
+ Has a killing throw: F-Throw.
+ Can reflect projectiles with Orbitars.
+ Can Trump the ledge which leads into a Bair kill.
+ No terrible match-ups; most are either 50:50 or in Pit's favour. Only slight disadvantages remain in those that are not.

Cons
- Up-B does not have a hit box.
- Up-B does not grab the ledge if his back is facing it, or if he is too close to the ledge when recovering.
- Pit is not protected during Up-B.
- Orbitars have a slow start-up and endlag.
- Has little options at the ledge.


Will contribute more if I think of anything.

 

[ZephyrZ]

Fly has a short range imo, and can be gimped with more ease than other recoveries in the game. Flare Blitz for recovering isn't something that I really like doing because it's really risky to pull off.

Flare Blitz as recovery isn't risky at all. It turns you into a super-armored fireball of death. It's risky as an attack option, but as recovery option, it's very hard to gimp a Charizard in the middle of a blitz. I've seriously killed people trying to edge guard me with that move before.

Fly has just enough range to work out alongside Flare Blitz, and I've killed people trying to edge guard me with that move even more times then it's happened with Flare Blitz.

 

[TheRealBlueBlur]

Wow, hypocrite much?

You can't possibly say something like that on Smashboards without raising an argument. I'm not going to keep that argument going, but if you are going to judge, just keep it to yourself, please.

 

[lRasha]

I wanted to add to what's already there. I'm not saying these are his/her only Pros and Cons.



Pros:
+ Has 3 spikes. DownAir, Header (the head, not the ball) and the foot of Fair
+ Can crouch under projectiles and attacks
+ Fast F-Tilt with Kill Potential
+ Header interrupts your momentum when used in the air
+ Deep Breathing grants "additional damage and launching power, reduced damage taken, and slightly increased walk speed" (quoted from Smash Guidebook)
+ Has some attacks that hit in front and behind

Cons:
- Poor grab range
- Punishable Smash Attacks. Needs to be used very wisely

 

[vegeta18]

ahh cool thanks, i wanted to update this list with mewtwo and the other 2 mii`s as well

 

[SphericalCrusher]

This is such an epic thread and is going to be very helpful in developing some of the other characters for me. Thank you and great work!

 

[vegeta18]

This is such an epic thread and is going to be very helpful in developing some of the other characters for me. Thank you and great work!

thank you very much! glad you enjoyed it and also i think now would be an amazing time to revive this thread a little. I want to add pros and cons for all the DLC since this topic basically went away after m2. Im not really sure about lucas,bayonetta, and corrin. I know some stuff about the other DLC but more input i get from you guys the better :D

Also thanks to everyone who has helped thus far, this thread came along great and the smashboards community really helped me push this topic along well.

 

[Routa]

(With "optimal size" and XXXX moveset)

Pros:
+ Good overall mobility
+ Strong projectile game (Chakram)
+ Versatile aerial game
+ Good low % combo game
+ Good recovery along with good anti-edgeguarding tools (Gale Strike and Chakram mainly)
+ Above average near ledge endgeguarding game
+ Ledge trump into Bair/Uair kill
+ OoS kill move (if Hero's Spin is chosen)
+ Quick U-Smash and D-Smash
+ Stronk F-Smash
+ Multihit Chakram into *insert kill move here*
+ Small hurtbox

Cons:
- Mediocre CQC game
- Below average killing power
- Frame 7 jumpsquat
- Small range for a sword wielder
- Lack of kill throws
- Lack of meteor smash

I might have forgotten some things, but that shall do for now.

 

[MistressRemilia]

Pros:
+ Good overall damage output
+ Among the best reflector in game: can anti zone + uses as a neutral mixup.
+ Good kill power off of strong & relatively safe moves, or kill confirms.
+ Excellent Out of shield options: BackAir, UpB & UpSmash being the best.
+ Above average edgeguard game: Tornado beating airdodges, reverse upb & bair being strong punishes for low recoveries.
+ Strong combo game off of throws & starters like Dtilt,Utilt,Jab 1 or 2, landing upair, etc
+ Low SH height allows you to fight Rushdown charas better.

Cons:
- Lackluster mobility
- Poor range
- Bad recovery
- Near non existant Long range game ( Pills sucks )
- Struggles to approch

 

[ZephyrZ]

What, this thread is still a thing? May as well add some a character.

Pros:
- Large, disjointed hitboxes.
- Several kill options.
- Fairly good combo ability.
- Good at juggling.
- Aerials that make them difficult to challenge in the air.
- Little landing lag on most aerials.

Cons:
- Short grab range.
- Difficulty approaching, especially against projectile wielders.
- Unimpressive recovery.
- Can sometimes have difficulty landing kill moves.

Edit: Also add "powerful kill throw" to Charizard's pros. Thank you, balance patches!

 

[Routa]

What, this thread is still a thing?

It will be a thing until we are done.

We are only missing DLC and Gunner atm.

 

[1FC0]

In patch 1.0.6 R.O.B.'s Upthrow was nerfed and it is now much weaker. You might want to update this in the OP.

 

[Erimir]

+ good running speed and jump height
+ great aerial maneuverability (about even with warios)
+ great custom moves
+ hp restoration with her down special
+ Strong in both long and short range combat
+ jab combo grounds opponents
+ jab 1 attacks on both sides

Cons:
- small hit boxes
- up special doesnt travel much distance
- requires extremely good spacing on her moves in order to be effective

I would say that Super Hoop can have pretty good vertical distance if you mash properly. So the proper downside is that without proper mashing, it doesn't go very far. With lag, this is a double edged sword, as sometimes lag makes the game interpret your mashing as super fast, giving you max height easily... but that can also mean you overshoot the ledge and get punished accidentally.

Also to add to or clarify what has already been said (i.e. this is not a comprehensive list):

Pro:
+ Healing with both Deep Breathing (down special) and Sun Salutation (neutral special)
+ Long and unpredictable recovery makes her difficult to edgeguard (WFT can often stall until you're forced to return to the edge or die. I've had many instances on FG where players SD because they chased me far off-stage and overcommitted.)
+ Deep Breathing and Header can be used to make landings unpredictable
+ Header can be used to attack from the ledge, even from across the stage

Con:
- Many of her attacks whiff on short characters
- Frame data generally not impressive

 

[Gawain]

This looks pretty fun. I'll pitch in

Pros:
+Good ground and air speed
+Good grab game with guaranteed followups out of Fthrow, and in some matchups Dthrow, till high percents
+Aerials have low landing lag for the amount of disjoint he gets
+Excellent kill power overall in ftilt, utilt, fsmash, dsmash, up b and bair
+Good, reliable kill confirms from nair hit 1 sour and sweet, and decent kill confirms from jab
+Good options against shield in landing with fair and tomahawking
+Excellent combo game, gets at least 20 off of any of his good combo confirms, up to around 40
+Great tech chase options in Fthrow and Dtilt if the opponent insists on DI'ing away, giving him DI mixups from throws against non-floaties

Cons:
-Aerials don't autocancel from shorthop, meaning that you must hit your opponent or make them spot/roll, or else they are punishable
-Lack of autocancel aerials means he can't spam them safely to push the opponent around, must rely on forcing the opponent to respect them as options out of neutral
-Fast faller, which gives him a good combo game but also makes him extremely vulnerable to combos
-Like many sword characters, doesn't really fare that well in neutral CQC. Frame 5 jab is fastest move
-Recovery, while having a big disjoint in the front, is fairly susceptible to being edge guarded from above (IE Falcon stomp etc)
-Poor air acceleration, can't weave around very much

 

[Djmarcus44]

1111 guest size gunner
Pros
+Top tier neutral due to the great range and safety of fair (It is a projectile that only has 12 frames of landing lag and covers about a quarter of final destination) and a variety of good tools in the neutral (charge blast, nair, bair, pivot flame pillar, pivot ftilt). Gunner is also decently mobile due to a foxtrot with a speed of 1.6 and a gundash that has the speed of a falcon kick to accompany good airspeed and air acceleration.
+Decent disadvantage state due to a good variety of landing mixups (gundashing, flame pillar, stalling with reflector, and lunar launch), a situational combo breaker in a frame 3 reflector, a good survivability due to an above average weight, and a small frame when standing and grounded (gunner is relatively difficult to jab lock).
+Good juggling with the high priority and disjoints of up tilt, up smash, and up air. Charge blast and fsmash are also good for covering landings. Gundashing with fair also allows gunner to have great mobility to cover landings.
+Good edgeguarding game with flame pillar, charge blast, up smash, and fsmash. Flame pillar covers the entire ledge for at least 35 frames, and it covers every ledge option except for rolling. Charge blast can cover most ledge options (it can cover all of the ledge options of some characters). Up smash is good for covering rolls and jumps. Fsmash is a good killing option that can cover every ledge option when timed properly.
+Decently fast killing options. Up tilt is frame 5 and kills around 135. Dtilt is frame 8 and kills around 130. Down smash is frame 9 with good killing power for a smash attack. Up smash is frame 11 with good killing power for a smash attack.
+Good follow ups out of throws and a couple of low percent true combos that can lead into damaging strings. Dthrow to nair and up throw to up tilt are true combos at low percents. Gunner can also kill opponents with up throw or Down throw to up air after a DI read. There are more follow ups on throws in the Mii Gunner true combo and follow up thread.
+Good recovery distance with Lunar Launch and gundashing to the stage.
+Good follow ups with some true combos (This is covered in the mii gunner true combo and follow up thread).
+Good killing mixups from jab. Gunner can cancel jab into any smash, any tilt, charge blast or dash attack.

Cons
-Low damage output.
-No reliable kill confirms
-Punishable recovery since Lunar Launch does not have hitboxes that cover gunner.
-Lacks a reliable combo breaker.

 

[_SoRa_]

+Vanish (Amazing Up-B)
+Great OoS game
+Has the largest number of advanced techniques at the moment
+Great "get of me" moves
-Bad Smash attacks besides Up-smash. D-smash can't cover large and quick rolls and is weak and has a significant amount of endlag so is very punishable (You will never see a Sheik doing this move lol) , F-smash is average.
-Whiffed Bouncing Fish in the ground has a lot of landing lag (Spot dodge the bouncing Fish if grounded and punish)
-Side-b gives her in free fall animation, so in the air, if miss inputed side b is stock gone

Why no ?

 

[vegeta18]

+Vanish (Amazing Up-B)
+Great OoS game
+Has the largest number of advanced techniques at the moment
+Great "get of me" moves
-Bad Smash attacks besides Up-smash. D-smash can't cover large and quick rolls and is weak and has a significant amount of endlag so is very punishable (You will never see a Sheik doing this move lol) , F-smash is average.
-Whiffed Bouncing Fish in the ground has a lot of landing lag (Spot dodge the bouncing Fish if grounded and punish)
-Side-b gives her in free fall animation, so in the air, if miss inputed side b is stock gone

Why no ?

i just dont know enough about bayonetta yet, I know i could personally really use a list of pros and cons for her, if people know some feel free to add some up

Edit: All updated so far, just need some data on ryu, bayonetta, lucas, cloud. Theres also a few characters that could probably use some more points to them.

 

[Phan7om]

Just want to point out Kirby's crouch isnt the best in the game, its only as low as Megaman's.

 

[Furret24]

Pros
+ Great combo game with Down Throw.
+ Has arguably the best set of aerials.
+ Nearly every attack has notable disjoint.
+ High damage output.
+ Good airspeed.
+ Up Smash a powerful anti-air attack.
+ Good recovery.
+ While situational, Oil Panic is a fast, powerful attack with crazy good disjointed range. In fact, Down Throw -> Oil Panic can potentially be a true zero-death combo.
+ Has arguably the best offstage game of the roster.
+ Most moves have lingering hitboxes.
+ Has large windboxes on several of his moves.

Cons
- Has major killing issues, among the worst of the entire roster.
- Poor neutral.
- Dies early due to really low weight and falling speed.
- Overall poor range despite his disjoints.
- Laughable grab range and terribe throws outside of Down Throw.
- Mediocre smashes outside of Up Smash.
- Situational to bad specials outside of Fire.
- Almost no safe options on shield.
- Bad aerial acceleration.
- Deceptively large amounts of lag, especially on startup.
- Bad projectile.


I'll do Yoshi and Duck Hunt later.

 

[Magik0722]

Wario:
utilt, ftilt, upB, upsmash, fmash, downsmash, dash attack, fair, and bair punishable on hit for a large percent range.
Bike glitch causes it to explode easily while riding it.