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Pros and cons of every character in smash 4

Discussion in 'Competitive Discussion' started by vegeta18, Feb 23, 2015.

  1. vegeta18

    vegeta18
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    Smash Journeyman

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2012
    Messages:
    311
    About this Topic:
    Just as the title reads, this a topic that lists pros and cons for every character in the game. The list is in alphabetical order. Some characters were easier to find data on than others. Most of my research came from this website, either the posts in this thread, the individual character boards, or just simply the knowledge i had in my head. I will constantly update this topic over time, so if you see any flaws that need some work, feel free to post and i will read over it and update the list for any character.

    Also please note that the amount of pros and cons for each character holds no meaning at all. It was easier for me to find data on some characters more than others, so if a certain character has a ton more pros than cons that doesnt necessarily mean they are better than the characters with more cons. It was all based off that data i was able to find while making this thread.

    This topic is great for those who are new to this game, unfamiliar with a few certain characters, or are still having trouble picking your mains. I hope this will aid you guys a ton, and help you to overcome bad match ups.

    Huge thank you to the user @BlueXenon who made a topic very similar to this in the brawl forums long ago, it was an extremely useful tool for me as i was first learning the game, and was my motivation to make this thread for sma4sh. Original Brawl thread is here.http://smashboards.com/threads/pros-cons-of-each-character.306655/


    :4bowser:
    Pros:
    +Very powerful Smash attacks
    + very heavy
    + great dash speed
    + good range on a lot of attacks

    Cons:
    - has tough time getting past zoning
    - combo`d easily
    - large size makes it hard easy to be hit by things
    - somewhat poor recovery

    :4bowserjr:
    Pros:
    + has 2 hurtboxes, takes less damage when his clown car is hit
    + mecha koopa great for mind games and stage control
    + powerful smash attacks
    +Great Zoning Options
    + side special can be cancelled into U-air or other aerials
    + Bair and dair

    Cons:
    - mecha koopa can be used against bowser jr
    - takes extra damage when bowser jr himself is attacked
    - smashes require hard reads
    - laggy cannonballs
    - many laggy moves in general

    :4falcon:
    Pros:
    +Stupid good combo potential and damage outputs
    +Intimidating to a lot of players (Subjective)
    +Very good kill options (Knee, Raptor, Flc Kick, Flc Pawnch, DAir, BAir, Up Throw)
    +Easy to stage spike with
    +Good approach options
    +One of the best, if not the best, dash grabs in the game
    +Fast Running speed
    +Good weight

    Cons:
    -Not very many spacing options
    -Suffers a bit when being zoned out well (Mainly Projectiles)
    -Tall hurtbox
    -Standing Grab has very little range

    :4charizard:
    Pros:
    + Surprisingly good ground speed.
    + Rock Smash has incredible super armor and does tons of damage.
    + His jab, neutral air, and up smash are all fast moves that are easy to land(important for heavy weights to have).
    + Amazing grab range.
    + Nair combos into jabs instantly
    + Very heavy damage-output character
    + Flare Blitz is deadly when catching opponent off guard
    + Great at edge-guarding
    + Tilts give good spacing options
    + Up throw is a strong kill throw, especially under platforms

    Cons:
    - Having two short air jumps limits your air speed, making follow up attacks difficult.
    - Large hurtbox, vulnerable to combos and projectiles.
    - Limited approach options outside of Flamethrower.
    - Tricky character to master and use effectively.
    - Slow air movement
    - Rock smash is beaten by swords
    - Heavy character (easily combo'd)

    :4corrin::4corrinf:
    Pros:
    - Large, disjointed hitboxes.
    - great range on attacks
    - Several kill options.
    - Fairly good combo ability.
    - Good at juggling.
    - Aerials that make them difficult to challenge in the air.
    - Little landing lag on most aerials.

    Cons:
    - Short grab range.
    - Difficulty approaching, especially against projectile wielders.
    - Unimpressive recovery.
    - Can sometimes have difficulty landing kill moves.
    :4darkpit:
    Pros:
    + great recovery
    + more powerful arrows than regular pit
    + electroshock arm has super armor and can kill very early(thanks buffs)
    + better voice than pit? (subjective)

    Cons:
    - arrows are slower and easier to dodge than regular pit`s
    - laggy aerials?
    - less range on arrows than regular pit

    :4diddy:
    Pros :
    + Reliable kill setups
    + Great frame data
    + Excellent combo potential
    + Down throw + up air can kill at extremely low percents and is very strong combination in general
    + Powerful and versatile projectiles
    + Good horizontal and vertical recovery options
    + Great match-ups
    + Insane hitboxes
    + Very fast
    + fair and bair are fast and very hard to punish

    Cons:
    - can take advantage of diddy`s recovery
    - banana`s can be used against him
    - whiffed side special has a lot of landing lag

    :4dk:
    Pros:
    +powerful and fast smash attacks
    + can ko early
    + very heavy and hard to kill

    Cons:
    - can be combo`d easily
    - big target
    - few approach options and difficulty with zoners

    :4drmario:
    Pros:
    + Good overall damage output
    + Good kill power off of strong & relatively safe moves, or kill confirms.
    + Among the best reflector in game: can anti zone + uses as a neutral mixup.
    + Above average edgeguard game: Tornado beating airdodges, reverse upb & bair being strong punishes for low recoveries.
    + Strong combo game off of throws & starters like Dtilt,Utilt,Jab 1 or 2, landing upair, etc
    + His other special moves, like dr.tornado, can also aid in his recovery
    + Gets better with customs(subjective)
    + More range with pills than mario and can zone slightly better
    + Excellent Out of shield options: BackAir, UpB & UpSmash being the best.
    + Bair wall for days
    + Pills cover a unique path
    + Down-B covers rolls and has good priority
    + Low SH height allows you to fight Rush down characters better.

    Cons:
    - Poor recovery
    - Slow movement in air and on the ground
    - Pills have significant ending lag
    - Lackluster mobility
    - Poor range
    - Struggles to approch

    :4duckhunt:
    Pros:
    + amazing stage control
    + very strong zoning
    + racks up damage fast
    + quick tilts and fair
    + can be very tricky with all of his traps and special moves.

    Cons:
    - very light
    - has a hard time killing
    - sometimes difficult to set up traps when being rushed down

    :4falco:
    Pros:
    +long range reflector that does damage
    + knockback on projectile
    + great spacing tools
    + potential still very untapped (subjective)

    Cons:
    - changed drastically from brawl version
    - light weight
    - somewhat poor recovery
    - can be hard to get ko

    :4fox:
    Pros:
    +lasers can rack up damage fast and force opponent to approach
    + extremely fast
    + quick smashes
    + good combos and rushdown

    - light weight
    - somewhat predictable recovery
    - sometimes hard to get the kill

    :4ganondorf:
    Pros:
    +Incredible combo ability for a slow character (naturally from being a semi-clone of Captain Falcon)
    +High combo potential at low percents
    +Being a clone of CF in itself is a pro
    +Heavy and Powerful
    +Great tilts, that can ko
    + One of the best Down airs in the game ( if not the best)
    +Great reach contributes to his combo ability
    +Great Tech Chase move
    +Ganoncide, the victim dies first
    +Great punishes and hard reads
    +High KO potential
    +Great range, making him good at trading and controlling space
    +Great command grab, and by extension, good mix-ups
    +Good offstage game and edgeguarding ability
    +Maybe this can be counted as an inherent trait, but Ganon's scary af. It's tremendously easy to let frustration
    and panic get the best of you, which means Ganon has a distinct psychological advantage in some cases.

    Cons:
    - Slow, gimpable recovery
    - A complete lack of a projectile
    - Easily juggled
    - Punished Easily
    - Laggy aerials, esp. big landing lag
    - Slow in general
    - Huge hurtbox
    -Arguably the easiest character to gimp
    -Suffers badly against projectiles
    -No OoS game
    -Very few options against short characters (can't be Aerudo'd, SH NAir'd, etc.)
    -Worst grab range, further limited OoS options
    -Majority of moves require hard reads to connect if the opponent isn't habitually offering themselves to you, and by extension, he
    -Easily rushed down
    -Moves stale badly, since many of his common KO moves are also the ones he uses to rack up damage

    :4greninja:
    Pros:
    + Recovery is among the best in the game both in how far it goes and how safe it is due to both Hydro Pump and Shadow Sneak
    + Mobility is among the best
    + Water Shuriken is a great projectile both for harassing the opponent when uncharged and either for combos or killing when charged.
    + Can reset to neutral very easily with good Hydro Pump usage.
    + Very fast dash grab with great range
    + Good range on his attacks
    + Great combo potential
    + Good kill setups
    + Very good edgeguarding game
    + Good power behind his moves
    + Shadow Sneak is a good mix-up move.

    Cons:
    - Poor options out of shield
    - Mediocre options for approaching.
    - Substitute can be unreliable
    - Commits really hard to his attacks
    - Terrible standing grab.
    - Somewhat laggy moves in general

    :4myfriends:
    Pros:
    + Attacks generally inflict high damage and knockback, and have good range.
    + F-air and B-air, plus Quick Draw, are auto-cancellable from short-hop and full-hop heights, respectively.
    + Eruption, when timed properly, is a deadly edgeguarding tool.
    + Aether can stop characters that recklessly edgeguard, has super armor, and can occasionally spike near ledges.
    + Surprisingly good number of combos, considering his weight class.
    + Good ground and aerial mobility, considering his weight class.
    + Being a heavy prolongs his survivability, allowing him to take advantage of the rage mechanic.

    Cons:
    - Attacks are generally slow with considerable start-up and ending lag.
    - Recovery is linear and predictable.
    - Without custom specials enabled, edgeguarding ability is limited.
    - Being a heavy makes him susceptible to combos.

    :4jigglypuff:
    Pros:
    -Rest
    -Throws do ~12%
    -Best aerial game of the cast
    -Recovery covers a lot of distance
    -F Air combos into itself
    -Great edgeguarding game
    -Has a shield breaking move

    Cons:
    -Slow ground speed
    -No Up B recovery
    -Rising Pound no longer a thing
    -Easy to edgeguard
    -Useless Up B, bad Neutral B
    -Generally slow ground moves

    :4dedede:
    Pros:
    +huge damage and knockback
    + one of the best recoveries in the game
    + gordo is strong projectile
    + amazing spot dodge
    + down smash is quick and deadly
    +hammer gives great range on his attacks

    Cons:
    - can be combo`d easily
    - can be rushed down by faster characters
    - custom moves dont do much to improve him
    - difficult to approach
    - gordo`s can be hit back at him if not positioned correctly

    :4kirby:
    Pros:
    + can crouch very low and duck under attacks
    + nice combo strings and follow ups
    + multiple jumps so difficult to gimp
    + copy abilities last longer than brawl
    + nice grab game and good pummel
    + Great, long distance recovery
    + Very low crouch

    Cons:
    - 3rd lightest
    - low range
    - bad mobility (ground and air)
    - very situational / unusable specials
    - below average KO power

    :4link:
    Pros:
    + great zoning abilites
    + Many projectiles which can disrupt approaches and can deal a lot of pressure
    + quick and strong smashes with disjointed hitboxes
    + good zair
    + can rack up damage fast
    +Jab 1
    + Strong ko moves
    +Lots of range
    +Can live to high amounts because of being heavy and also benefits from rage
    +Can punish air dodges really well

    Cons:
    - lacks reliable kill move
    - many bad match ups
    - although recovery has been buffed from brawl, still not that great
    - Grabs are very situational
    -Can get combed easily
    -Easily juggled
    -Slow

    :4littlemac:
    Pros:
    + Amazing tilts, jab, and smashes that shut down a lot of options
    + Can dish out massive damage very quickly
    + Has a frame one kill setup around 100% on most of the cast

    Cons:
    - bad aerials
    - Poor recovery
    - Many very, very difficult matchups

    :4lucario:
    Pros:
    +The Aura combined with rage gives incredible knockback at higher percents
    +Every stock is useful, a fresh stock means more combos are available, or the aura stock, even if you're falling behind, reading your foe can lead to a severe punish.
    +All his specials are useful and can be used in creative ways in the match.
    + Very good aerial attacks
    +A way wide of options for your recoveries, even the walls are your allies! Wall jumps and wall clings are at your disposal.
    +Extreme Speed directly to a wall makes you wall cling and has a hitbox at the end of it! great if you want to read your foe's ledgeguard.
    +A good crouch (and crouch walking too!).
    +Aura Sphere is quick to charge, can hit if charging on your foe's face, and deals nice damage and knock-back at a high aura buff.
    +Fast grabs and good throws.
    +The awesome up tilt! your foe is directly on your back? UP TILT!
    +Down air can help you to be airborne (not as good as brawl or PM, but its OK), and can work as air breaks (good as approaching), BUT WON'T BREAK YOU IF YOU'RE BEING LAUNCHED! first recover from tumble or reeling, then it will work as normal (careful not to fast fall involuntarily).
    +Decent rolling and side steps.
    +Great weight (or gravity), meaning you can escape combos with some ease, and you wont be KO'd that fast

    Cons:
    -You'll need a lot of patience, being to hasty to attack will lead you to severe punishments.
    -Lucario is more inclined to a defensive game rather than an offensive one.
    -Getting hit with a smash on an aura stock almost means a KO, and your launching power will be drastically lowered. But some options and mix-ups are again at your disposal.
    - Aura can make it very difficult to land combos
    -Slow smash attacks, and some have a long end-lag. Since it slow, punishing a roll or spot-dodge can be easier (even without meaning to).
    -Approaching might be a pain (or haven't found a good one yet). EDIT: Foxtrot is a nice option to make approaching.
    Running speed is average or below.
    He doesn't have an stable "On hit-KO" combo (Like Cap. Falcon or ZSS).
    Whiffing a Force Palm (even blocked) can be punished. (That's why it grows!). Spot-dodging it completely at grab range is hard, but possible.
    If during your Extreme Speed you hit something above your head while recovering in any motion upwards (Like that square or irregularity on the right side of Omega Wind Hill, UUUGH HATE THAT), you'll crash and fall down!
    Also, since patch 1.0.4, landing after helpless state (after extreme speed) will punish you with severe landing lag (almost 1 second) and have a huge opening. You can avoid this by landing horizontally. While inputting diagonally downwards by touching the ground or being parallel to it during the extreme speed (don't go straight down, or you'll crash on floor, has less landing lag though, poor Lucario), this will result on an slide after ending it, preserving the hitboxes and drastically reduce your landing-lag. Just be careful not to slide off a platform, OK? Else you'll fall to your doom.
    Double Team anything on air can lead you to strange reactions, be careful of what your countering, else you'll fall failing to counter.
    Up-Throws can be DI (Or vectored) with some ease, breaking your setups.
    Neutral Air has a weird hitbox, but you'll get used to it after some use.

    :4lucina:
    Pros:
    + great air speed
    + strong and quick shield breaker
    + tied with marth for fastest walker in game

    Cons:
    - lacks in range compared to marth
    - no tipper, harder to get kos
    - lighter than marth

    :4luigi:
    Pros:
    + amazing combos
    + great frame data
    + very strong punishes
    + powerful ko moves
    + taunt does a lot of damage

    Cons:
    - lacks in range
    - second slowest aerial mobility (1st is D3)
    - predictable recovery

    :4mario:
    +decent recovery(much better than docs)
    + great combo potential
    + Great punishes

    - low damage output
    - limited range
    - need good reads to land smash attacks

    :4marth:
    Pros:
    +Solid aerial game
    +Relatively fast moves
    +Tipper F Smashes kill at around 50%
    +Tippers in general
    +Has a kill throw
    +Fast Up B
    +Fastest walker, tied with Lucina
    +Has a shield breaking move
    + Directly benefits and rewards good spacing
    + Great Frame traps

    Cons:
    -Increased aerial landing lag
    -Throws only do 3 or 4%
    -Combo game diminished
    -Bad horizontal recovery
    -Predictable recovery

    :4megaman:
    Pros:
    + Heavier than average (102 weight)
    + Great Recovery Options that can be acted out of, nor use up his 2nd jump
    + Can Wall Jump
    + Very good at edge guarding/gimping/foot-stooling
    + Excels at Mid-Range Spacing/Pressuring/Gameplay
    + Custom Specials are more diverse compared to most characters and can help cover certain match-ups better than others.
    + D-Specials allow for an active hitbox while defending

    Cons:
    - Nearly every kill move is either situational or are easily punished
    - More or less no comboing ability, forces the need for good reads
    - Reflectors can give him a harder time than most of the cast
    - Technically a Fast Faller, leaves him vulnerable to certain combos (like Up-Tilts from Mario/Sheik)

    :4metaknight:
    Pros:
    +Great match ups across the board only having 2 or 3 MU to look out for
    +Reliable kill setups on the whole cast
    +Disjointed hitboxes
    +Safe dash attack and F-Smash
    +Good dash grab with the falcon slide effect
    +9th fastest dash in the game as well as being 19-21 in air speed
    +OOS options one being a kill move another starting combo's
    +Can start combo's out of Uair,Dair,Utilt,Dtilt,DA,Back throw/Down throw/Forward throw
    +9 kill moves and strong advantage state
    +6 jumps allowing him to stall recoveries,landings,multiple edgeguard options by hovering in the air and bypass projectiles. Also allows him to zone some characters with dair.
    +Dimensional Cape giving him a free ticket out of disadvantage state,edgeguards and traps
    +Specials and F-Smash that deals alot of damage, Mach Tornado dealing 23% and 25% on BJ
    +Side B invalidates edgeguard attempts from most of the cast and stage spikes are pretty much guaranteed
    +Insane shield poking moves
    + Small Hurtbox

    Cons
    -Damage per hit on his normals are as low as Sheiks
    -Lightweight
    -Poor Range
    -Aerials have significant end lag so he cannot use them in neutral

    :4mewtwo:
    Pros
    Great combo ability
    2 very powerful kill throws(forward and back throw)
    good range on a lot of moves with his tail
    shadow ball is very powerful when landed
    side special and fully charged shadow ball in the air help can help his spacing and recovery
    air dodge makes him invisible so hard to read where he is landing

    Cons
    Lightweight
    Big Target
    Floaty in the air

    :4miibrawl:
    (with customs)
    Pros
    + Fast Air Speed
    + Fast Running Speed
    + Fast Attacks
    + High Jump
    + Pseudo 3rd Jump
    + Edge Cancel-able dive kick
    + Up B deals 17%, has great air mobility, starts on frame 8 making for good OoS option
    + Horizontal Mix-up Recovery is limitless
    + Can combo from d-throw (sometimes comboing into a kill)
    + Has a Meteor Smash
    + Ultimate Uppercut has Super Armor Fully Charged
    + Up Smash has brief invincibility
    + Aggressive character
    + Fsmash is incredibly Strong
    + Takes like all the good moves from each fighter (utilt, n-air, up B)
    + Can wall Jump multiple times with Feint Jump
    + Get to play as whoever you want
    + Can combo Ledged cancel FJ into HK

    Cons
    - Has no range
    - Has the worst vertical recovery in the game
    - F-smash only hits on frame 17
    - Feint Jump has no invincibility
    - Struggles to kill opponents higher than 80%
    - Lacks a decent projectile
    - Onslaught heavily punishable on shield
    - Strongest Air attack can't kill until 140% (B-air)
    - Throws lose comboing ability at 80% and can't kill until 200%
    - Doesn't get to play on For Glory
    - Default Moveset is terrible
    - Usually limited to boring Guest Miis
    - One of the worst Rapid Jab combos
    - All smash attacks are unreliable kill moves for either being too weak or slow
    - None of his tilts kill
    - U-air hardly has any hitstun

    Mixed
    +- Ledge getup invincibility longer than other characters, requires different timing. Works out well first until the opponent learns this and has more time to punish
    +- feels like playing a melee character

    :4miisword:
    (With "optimal size" and XXXX moveset)
    Pros:
    + Good overall mobility
    + Strong projectile game (Chakram)
    + Versatile aerial game
    + Good low % combo game
    + Good recovery along with good anti-edgeguarding tools (Gale Strike and Chakram mainly)
    + Above average near ledge endgeguarding game
    + Ledge trump into Bair/Uair kill
    + OoS kill move (if Hero's Spin is chosen)
    + Quick U-Smash and D-Smash
    + Stronk F-Smash
    + Multihit Chakram into *insert kill move here*
    + Small hurtbox

    Cons:
    - Mediocre CQC game
    - Below average killing power
    - Frame 7 jumpsquat
    - Small range for a sword wielder
    - Lack of kill throws
    - Lack of meteor smash
    :4miigun:
    1111 guest size gunner
    Pros
    +Top tier neutral due to the great range and safety of fair (It is a projectile that only has 12 frames of landing lag and covers about a quarter of final destination) and a variety of good tools in the neutral (charge blast, nair, bair, pivot flame pillar, pivot ftilt). Gunner is also decently mobile due to a foxtrot with a speed of 1.6 and a gundash that has the speed of a falcon kick to accompany good airspeed and air acceleration.
    +Decent disadvantage state due to a good variety of landing mixups (gundashing, flame pillar, stalling with reflector, and lunar launch), a situational combo breaker in a frame 3 reflector, a good survivability due to an above average weight, and a small frame when standing and grounded (gunner is relatively difficult to jab lock).
    +Good juggling with the high priority and disjoints of up tilt, up smash, and up air. Charge blast and fsmash are also good for covering landings. Gundashing with fair also allows gunner to have great mobility to cover landings.
    +Good edgeguarding game with flame pillar, charge blast, up smash, and fsmash. Flame pillar covers the entire ledge for at least 35 frames, and it covers every ledge option except for rolling. Charge blast can cover most ledge options (it can cover all of the ledge options of some characters). Up smash is good for covering rolls and jumps. Fsmash is a good killing option that can cover every ledge option when timed properly.
    +Decently fast killing options. Up tilt is frame 5 and kills around 135. Dtilt is frame 8 and kills around 130. Down smash is frame 9 with good killing power for a smash attack. Up smash is frame 11 with good killing power for a smash attack.
    +Good follow ups out of throws and a couple of low percent true combos that can lead into damaging strings. Dthrow to nair and up throw to up tilt are true combos at low percents. Gunner can also kill opponents with up throw or Down throw to up air after a DI read. There are more follow ups on throws in the Mii Gunner true combo and follow up thread.
    +Good recovery distance with Lunar Launch and gundashing to the stage.
    +Good follow ups with some true combos (This is covered in the mii gunner true combo and follow up thread).
    +Good killing mixups from jab. Gunner can cancel jab into any smash, any tilt, charge blast or dash attack.

    Cons
    -Low damage output.
    -No reliable kill confirms
    -Punishable recovery since Lunar Launch does not have hitboxes that cover gunner.
    -Lacks a reliable combo breaker.

    :4gaw:
    Pros
    + great air game
    + excellent smashes
    + lucky side special or full bucket can kill very early
    + great edge guarding

    Cons
    - light weight
    - unreliable projectile
    - somewhat poor ground game

    :4ness:
    Pros:
    + Insane combo strings, build-a-combo style
    + Racks up damage quickly overall
    + Crazy edge-guard potential
    + Small hurtbox (He's pretty short)
    + Long lasting hitboxes for safety
    + Good ranged options, great up close options
    + Fantastic SH aerials that are usually easy to space well with and hard to punish (this one is debatable)
    + DownB in lots of Matchups
    + Most reliable kill move in the game (Bthrow) as well as a long list of other kill moves (Uair, Bair, Nair, Fsmash, PKT2, etc...)
    + Up special is hard to avoid, good for juggling opponents
    + Best throw game overall.
    + Good at edge guarding

    Cons:
    - Fairly Slow Running Speed
    - Not very hard to Gimp Ness
    - Vulnerable when recovering
    - Slow rolls and a short spot dodge
    - Easily overwhelmed by really fast characters or characters who have strong defensive options
    - Struggles when being juggled, and has few landing options
    - Can struggle offstage against certain characters
    - Average mobility leaves him more punishable than most
    - Laggy specials that are easily punished if whiffed
    - Not the best smashes and tilts
    - Has a few extremely situational moves like dair and dtilt

    :4olimar:
    Pros:
    + Small size makes dodging easier.
    + Can wrack up damage fast without having to approach.
    + Has reliable kill options.
    + Strong recovery that is hard to gimp.
    + Can wall opponents out with projectiles.

    Cons:
    - Since he is light he dies earlier.
    - Pikmin can desync randomly from the line.
    - Fast characters give him a lot of trouble.

    :4pacman:
    Pros:
    + not many bad match ups
    + very agile
    + neutral b is very versatile
    + the ghosts on his smash attacks can cancel out some projectiles

    Cons:
    - throw is considered to bad very bad due to the massive ending lag
    - hydrant and neutral special can work against pacman if they are not positioned properly
    - trampoline can be taken advantage of by opponent, they can use it as well, or attempt to gimp

    :4palutena:
    Pros:
    Very fast ground movement
    Overall great aerial moves (Fair and Bair being the best)
    Good spacing tools (Jab, Dtilt, Fair)
    Jab can lead into grabs and combos
    High priority on some moves (Bair, Dash Attack)
    Down throw can almost always lead to combos
    Has access to a reflector that can also be used for offstage pressure (rarely)
    Warp special is a great recovery move
    Some default specials may only be useful in certain match ups
    comes with all her customs unlocked
    very unique and verstaile custom special moves that are much different than the original specials

    Cons:
    Light and easy to launch and KO
    Tall and easier to hit than other characters
    Most tilts and Smashes have lots of lag
    Majority of kill moves have lots of lag
    Has trouble dealing with faster characters
    is limited in gameplay with customs off

    :4peach:
    Pros:
    -Can float and has a technique applied to this called QFR, both of which are incredibly useful for spacing
    -Parasol open hitbox (while floating) can actually kill from above
    -Fair is incredibly strong
    -Dair is good for damage, approaching, and shield damage
    -Has a chance to pull a Stitchface for around 30% damage, Mr. Saturn which can easily break shields, or a Bob-Omb
    -Uair is disjointed, has semispike-esque properties, can go through the stage if opponent if above ledge
    -Dtilt has decent range and is decent for setups
    -FSmash can have customized range
    -Pulling turnips can alter the neutral game in many matchups
    -Has a counter
    -DSmash punishes rolls heavily and even some moves with heavier endlag

    Cons:
    -Incredibly floaty
    -Slow in general
    -Telegraphed recovery
    -Hard to kill with
    -Pulling a turnip is incredibly slow, Jesus
    -Can be severely outcamped, a problem in general and for floating
    -Fast characters are a huge problem for her, a problem in general and for floating
    -Counter is slow, severe endlag
    -USmash is strong but hard to hit with

    :4pikachu:
    Pros:
    + Has a lot of powerful moves and smashes.
    + Also good at dealing a lot of damage to your opponent.
    + Very fast and small
    + The electric has the ability to stun for a small time, so this could help you to get close to your opponent.
    + Grabs are really good, all of them are easy to combo from and get easy kills.
    + The Thunder cloud in the move thunder now has a meteor effect and that can help get some kills as well.
    + Keep him in the air, he has a lot of combos in his aerials
    + Aerials are long lasting
    + Up+ Special (quick attack) can be used to give out damage and go to a safe place quickly so you are unable to get punished.
    + Down tilt can trip opponents.
    + Can duck under projectiles and can crawl *bonus*.

    Cons:
    - Light weight
    - Doesn't have a jab combo and his jab is easy to get out of.
    - Skull bash can be predictable and can be easily intercepted by anything even though it's powerful
    - short reach on most attacks
    - vulnerable on most specials

    :4pit:
    Pros:
    + great recovery
    + lots of control with curving his arrows
    + greater arrow range
    + upperdash arm kills at earlier percents than dark pits
    + His D-Throw combos into his Up-Smash and all of his aerials.
    + Excellent disjoint Dash Attack can lead into strings.
    + Good spacing options with F-Tilt, D-Tilt, 123 Jab and Fair.
    + Dair can Spike.
    + Excellent Dash and Pivot Grab.
    + Is proficient in sharking under platforms with Up-Smash.
    + One of the best Gimpers in the game i.e. Light Arrows.
    + Uair also allows for creative combos and follow-ups.
    + Has a killing throw: F-Throw.
    + Can reflect projectiles with Orbitars.
    + Can Trump the ledge which leads into a Bair kill.
    + No terrible match-ups; most are either 50:50 or in Pit's favour. Only slight disadvantages remain in those that are not.

    Cons:

    - Up-B does not have a hit box.
    - Up-B does not grab the ledge if his back is facing it, or if he is too close to the ledge when recovering.
    - Pit is not protected during Up-B.
    - Orbitars have a slow start-up and endlag.
    - Has little options at the ledge.

    :4rob:
    Pros:
    + Has a move that can reflect projectiles
    + Up and Side smashes KO early
    + Very reliable recovery, can go from one end of FD to the other
    + Tilts are faster and do more damage
    + Zoning game is incredible
    + Nair provides good coverage
    + Solid kill-throw @ ~110%'ish (Up-throw)
    + Easy to set up walls with
    + Can be played defensively & offensively

    Cons:
    - Prone to combos; heavy character
    - Prone to Juggling
    - Slow up b could leave him prone to spiking
    - Predictable recovery
    - Weak against rush-down MUs (Sheik, Sonic, Pikachu, etc..)

    :4robinm:
    Pros:
    + very strong zoning game
    + books can be picked up and thrown as items
    + levin`s sword has great range and priority as well as disjointed hitbox
    + most significant health restoration move in the game

    Cons:
    - Slowest run speed
    - Slowest pummel
    - Slow walk speed
    - Low grab range
    - Large openings in her defense
    - Limited uses for special moves, smash attacks, and aerials

    :rosalina:
    Pros:
    + great zoning game
    + Good ground game
    + Great range and disjointed hitboxes due to Luma.
    + Has a projectile
    + Can control the stage fairly well
    + luma can tank a lot of attacks, get you out of grabs, attack you, aid in combos and many more things
    + Luma can act as a "meat shield" for oncoming projectiles
    + gravity pull can work against any kind of projectile in the game, and also makes the item belong to rosalina
    + very quick and powerful smashes with little ending lag
    + good kill moves
    + galaxy around many of her attacks isnt considered to be part of her actual body, so wins trades often
    + Very strong aerial attacks and juggling game
    + Recovery has a very long range.
    + Decent ground speed
    + Lunar Landing gives her a pressure option.



    Cons:
    - Rosalina's options become limited without Luma.
    - has a hard time getting out of juggles
    - Is a large light-weight target.
    - floaty in general
    - no hitboxes on her up special(unless customs are allowed)
    - Some of her attacks have noticeable end lag.
    - Luma can die soon after it respawns.

    :4feroy:
    Pros:
    +Good ground and air speed
    +Good grab game with guaranteed followups out of Fthrow, and in some matchups Dthrow, till high percents
    +Aerials have low landing lag for the amount of disjoint he gets
    +Excellent kill power overall in ftilt, utilt, fsmash, dsmash, up b and bair
    +Good, reliable kill confirms from nair hit 1 sour and sweet, and decent kill confirms from jab
    +Good options against shield in landing with fair and tomahawking
    +Excellent combo game, gets at least 20 off of any of his good combo confirms, up to around 40
    +Great tech chase options in Fthrow and Dtilt if the opponent insists on DI'ing away, giving him DI mixups from throws against non-floaties

    Cons:
    -Aerials don't autocancel from shorthop, meaning that you must hit your opponent or make them spot/roll, or else they are punishable
    -Lack of autocancel aerials means he can't spam them safely to push the opponent around, must rely on forcing the opponent to respect them as options out of neutral
    -Fast faller, which gives him a good combo game but also makes him extremely vulnerable to combos
    -Like many sword characters, doesn't really fare that well in neutral CQC. Frame 5 jab is fastest move
    -Recovery, while having a big disjoint in the front, is fairly susceptible to being edge guarded from above (IE Falcon stomp etc)
    -Poor air acceleration, can't weave around very much

    :4samus:
    Pros:
    +Mix up heavy character great for people who like mindgames.
    +Heavy and floaty means less hits stun at earlier percentages and more survivability at later percentages.
    +Slows down rushdown characters with her approach countering tools.
    +very strong meteor smash

    Cons:
    -Deals poorly with pressure.
    -Heavy and floaty means she'll get juggled a lot.
    -Drastically different play style from the rest of the cast, as such tedious to pick up and learn

    :4sheik:
    Pros:
    + One of the best recoveries in the game
    + Great OoS game
    + Great "get of me" moves
    + Great mobility both on the ground and in the air
    + One of the best rolls in the game, increasing her mobility and evasiveness on the ground
    + Great at punishing most things with sheer mobility, granting her one of the best neutral games.
    + Great mix ups and pressure game. SHFF Fair, SHFF empty jump, dash attack and dash grab mix up very effectively. Carries momentum well
    + Needles combo at higher percents and can put pressure into opponents to force them to approach
    + Has great zoning tools like Fair and Needles.
    + Has a lot of moves safe on shield when spaced correctly
    + Very quick moves in general
    + Has a very easy time landing a grab and has good follow-ups out of grab
    + Good combo game to rack up damage quickly at low and mid %s.
    + Great edge guarding
    +Fast aerials, with very little lag

    Cons:
    -Her KO moves usually require hard reads to set up. She has to either hard read (and hit with like Fsmash or Usmash, or hit with a Bouncing Fish offstage) which carries a lot of risk, wait until very high percents when Bair starts to KO, or KO by gimping the opponent. So she relies on carrying momentum to KO.
    -Bad Smash attacks besides Up-smash. D-smash can't cover large and quick rolls and is weak and has a significant amount of endlag so is very punishable (You will never see a Sheik doing this move lol) , F-smash is average.
    -Most of her moves individually do very little damage. She has to combo to deal actual damage, which becomes harder at higher percents.
    - Whiffed Bouncing Fish in the ground has a lot of landing lag (Spot dodge the bouncing Fish if grounded and punish)
    - Light for her size
    -Because of her lightweight and her difficulty setting up the KOs, the opponent will usually live very long against her. This her vulnerable to rage working against her and potentially getting KOed very early if the opponent successfully punishes her.
    -Average reach on her moves, while lacking in disjointed hitboxes on most of her moves
    -Side-b gives her in free fall animation, so in the air, if miss inputted side b is stock gone


    :4shulk:
    Pros:
    + Versatile character who can call upon his Monado Arts for literally any situation
    + One of the biggest if not the biggest disjointed hitboxes in the game
    + Can greatly capitalize on any momentum he gets

    Cons:
    - 90% of his approach options involve Nair or Fair, making him predictable to shield-grabs
    - Mediocre frame data meaning he's required to space well
    - Every Monado Art has 1 or 2 core playstyles that can easily be noticed and exploited by their opponents

    :4sonic:
    Pros:
    + fastest character in the game
    + great combos
    + many mindgames and mixups with all of his ball moves and cancels
    + great juggling which can often lead to kos
    + good at racking up damage fast while staying safe
    + great off stage pressure

    Cons:
    - many jab combos can easily disrupt his side or down special
    - struggles against zoners
    - struggles against very defensive playstyles
    - can be forced to play very campy and boring in certain match ups at high levels of play
    - homing attack can feel very useless sometimes
    - not very many strong approach options

    :4tlink:
    Pros:
    + Three very good projectiles
    + Excels at taking stage control
    + Can easily rack up damage
    + Can out-camp almost everyone
    + Has a z-air, which is a great poking and spacing tool with little landing lag
    + Good running speed, and has the tools to slow down faster characters
    + Two recoveries with spin attack and the tether, giving more options to recover with
    + Good ability to combo with bombs, the boomerang, and u-tilt
    + Difficult to combo due to being light and floaty
    + Great grab range
    + Has a kill throw
    + His Hylian shield can protect against a lot of projectiles just by very slowly walking forward, crouching, or standing around

    Cons:
    - Light and easy to KO
    - No moves with a hitbox that comes out before frame 6
    - Bad at taking back stage control once it's been lost
    - Loses to approaches like dash shield, mainly because his grab is slow
    - Has a terrible and generally useless d-air
    - Loses the camping fight to a few characters
    - Grab has a lot of ending lag and is very punishable if it misses
    - Aerials have a lot of landing lag, and are unsafe on shield
    - Can't efficiently deal with direct pressure and/or rush down
    - Gets gimped relatively easy
    - Has trouble landing the kill while racking up damage and increasing the opponent's rage

    :4villager:
    Pros:
    + good zoning ability
    + good combo potential
    + nair, great for combo breaking+comboing
    + one of the best recoveries in the game
    + very tricky and has a lot of traps
    + can ko at very early percents
    + Pretty heavy for how small of a character he/she is
    + dair is disjointed and spikes
    + great offstage options
    + great edge guarding options
    + upsmash scoops and is also disjointed
    + can always have a rocket on the field
    + dtilt+utilt KO
    + back throw KOs
    + ftilt has a great hitbox+pivot options

    Cons:
    - slow dash speed
    - weak grab because of startup AND ending lag, it's punishable and also can be spot dodged on reaction, it requires a read to land, the reward is way lower than the risk unless u get a backthrow KO.
    - hard to punish with fsmash and dsmash due to small hitboxes
    - reflectors are strong against him due to most of his moves counting as projectiles
    - because of villager's weak grab and the buff to counters in wiiU, counters are especially strong vs villager because you know he's probably throwing out a hitbox, especially vs his B+B nair
    - fast dash speed characters are an issue because these characters can dash past the rocket before it becomes active and can punish rocket trap setups
    - jab has low damage
    - all tilts have startup lag, especially dtilt
    - despite the slight extra damage, bair is pretty much a wasted button if u think about it

    :4wario:
    Pros:
    + can eat many things, bite is a lot stronger in this game in general
    + great aerial maneuverability
    + many recovery options when all are available
    + excellent edgeguard and ledgeguard options
    + benefits from stalling the game (which is extra important in certain match ups)

    Cons:
    - waft is useless for a lot of the game
    - up special has poor recovery
    - poor range
    - very few true combos
    - difficult to land ko moves reliably

    :4wiifitm:
    + good running speed and jump height
    + great aerial maneuverability (about even with warios)
    + great custom moves
    + Healing with both Deep Breathing (down special) and Sun Salutation (neutral special)
    + Strong in both long and short range combat
    + jab combo grounds opponents
    + jab 1 attacks on both sides
    + Long and unpredictable recovery makes her difficult to edgeguard (WFT can often stall until you're forced to return to the edge or die)
    + Deep Breathing and Header can be used to make landings unpredictable
    + Header can be used to attack from the ledge, even from across the stage

    Cons:
    - small hit boxes
    - Many of his/her attacks whiff on short characters
    - without proper mash up special doesnt go very far
    - requires extremely good spacing on her moves in order to be effective
    - Frame data generally not impressive

    :4yoshi:
    Pros:
    +Speedy on the ground and in the air
    + Fast in the air and on the ground
    +Great zoning option in the egg toss
    + Eggs create a wall and can be used for approaching
    +aerial grab in egg lay
    + Egg lay can be B-reversed, and create unique movement
    +ground pound can kill and can be set up with a jab
    +double jump armor
    +fairly heavy
    +unique shield mechanics which make his shield arguably better than everyone else's
    + His aerials are very good
    + up air is a reliable, quick kill move
    + nair is a combo breaker and a damn good one
    + dair can hit for 32%
    + OoS Nair/Upsmash
    + Jab 1 can be chained continuously, jab 2 has decent range
    + Can literally eat shields from the air
    + Fair is quick, can meteor, can combo [into kills], and has a low hitbox during landing lag animation

    Cons:
    -gimped very easily, especially by footstools
    -standing grab is slow, dash and pivot grabs have are very easy to punish
    -egg roll is easily dealt with and not a very good moves
    - UpB doesn't reset upon grabbing a ledge
    - Throws don't kill nor combo into anything

    :4zelda:
    Pros:
    + good zoning
    + back air can ko very early with sweet spot
    + down special is very good for edge guarding
    + up special has 2 hitboxes, one at the start and one at the end

    Cons:
    - many of her moves come out slow
    - poor approach options
    - floaty, tall, and lightweight for her size

    :4zss:
    Pros:
    +Amazing recovery with lots of mix ups to recover with. Is very difficult to edgeguard
    +Amazing mobility, both on the ground and in the air. Has one of the fastest and highest jumps in the game and has good falling speed.
    +Combos easily from a lot of moves and her combos deal massive damage, making her punish game one of the most dangerous ones as she can rack up huge damage or KO with the blink of an eye. Has an effective juggle game. She can punish even the smallest of wrong commitments severely, like with Up b OoS.
    +Has a lot of KO moves. KOes very early with moves like down b and up b. Bair is a reliable KO move. Has many set ups into KO like Dthrow into Uair, Uair into Up b, or Dsmash into almost anything.
    + Boost kick kills everyone near the top at around 100%
    +Very quick moves overall, including a frame 1 jab and a frame 3 Utilt, and a lot of them are safe on shield when spaced correctly.
    +Great reach on a lot of her moves, and a lot of her moves are disjointed, allowing her to control space well and pressure effectively.
    +Has pretty good mix ups, with dash attack travelling very far and her mobility to mix up between FF, non-FF and empty jump and well spaced aerials to make her trickier to predict.
    +Good grab game. Her grab is disjointed and has very long reach. Dthrow follow-ups easily into moves like Uair or Fair.
    +Resets relatively bad situations back into neutral easily, greatly helping her to take less damage when getting punished. Flip Jump is a great tool to get out of pressure and juggles.
    + frame 1 jab
    + One of the best utilts in the game
    + can stun with her neutral special or down smash

    Cons:
    -Relies a lot on reads. Although sometimes her commitments are very low risk, other times she relies on high riskreads to punish severely. This makes her heavily reliant on conditioning and adapting to the opponent.
    -Some characters can crouch under a lot of her moves, including jab 1, Paralyser Utilt, Bair, Zair and neutral angled Ftilt, forcing her to adapt to that option.
    -Her grab is very slow and is highly punishable on whiff, making it risky to throw out most of the time.
    -Can sometimes have problems vs characters with strong OoS options and chars with a strong ability to whiff punish due to her grab being risky to throw out. This can make her struggle a little bit in neutral sometimes. Her shield pressure and mobility in general can make this significantly less of an issue.
    -Very light and relatively tall for her weight.
    - Dair is very laggy when whiffed and easy to avoid
    - light weight, bigger target
    - Doesnt have many tools for off stage pressure
     
    #1 vegeta18, Feb 23, 2015
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2016
    HyperComboFinish, 1FC0, Fex13 and 4 others like this.
  2. Budget Player Cadet_

    Budget Player Cadet_
    Expand Collapse
    Smash Debater

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2008
    Messages:
    8,906
    Location:
    Vinyl Scratch's Party Bungalo
    NNID:
    Budget_Player

    Little Mac
    + Amazing tilts, jab, and smashes that shut down a lot of options
    + Can dish out massive damage very quickly
    + Has a frame one kill setup around 100% on most of the cast,
    - No aerials
    - Poor recovery
    - Many very, very difficult matchups
     
  3. Scarlet Jile

    Scarlet Jile
    Expand Collapse
    Smash Lord

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2005
    Messages:
    1,221
    Location:
    The Woods, Maine
    NNID:
    ScarletJile
    Diddy

    Pros -
    + Reliable kill setups
    + Great frame data
    + Excellent combo potential
    + Powerful and versatile projectiles
    + Good horizontal and vertical recovery options
    + Great match-ups
    + Insane hitboxes
    + Very fast

    Cons
    - Can't fly indefinitely
    -
     
  4. MarioFireRed

    MarioFireRed
    Expand Collapse
    Smash Journeyman

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2014
    Messages:
    442
    Location:
    Colony 9
    3DS FC:
    5026-4457-8398
    NNID:
    MarioFireRed
    :4shulk:
    + Versatile character who can call upon his Monado Arts for literally any situation
    + One of the biggest if not the biggest disjointed hitboxes in the game
    + Can greatly capitalize on any momentum he gets
    - 90% of his approach options involve Nair or Fair, making him predictable to shield-grabs
    - Mediocre frame data meaning he's required to space well
    - Every Monado Art has 1 or 2 core playstyles that can easily be noticed and exploited by their opponents
     
    NINTENDO Galaxy and Ryuji like this.
  5. ATH_

    ATH_
    Expand Collapse
    Smash Ace

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2014
    Messages:
    549
    Location:
    Omnipresent
    3DS FC:
    0963-0267-2548
    NNID:
    HexManiacSnivy
    :4ness:
    +Insane combo strings, build-a-combo style
    +Racks up damage quickly overall
    +Crazy edge-guard potential
    +Small hurtbox (He's pretty short)
    +Long lasting hitboxes for safety
    +Good ranged options, great up close options
    +DownB in lots of Matchups
    +Back Throw for easy kills
    -Fairly Slow Running Speed
    -Not very hard to Gimp Ness
    -Vulnerable when recovering
    -Slow rolls and a short spot dodge
    -Easily overwhelmed by really fast characters or characters who have strong defensive options

    :4falcon:
    +Stupid good combo potential and damage outputs
    +Intimidating to a lot of players (Subjective)
    +Very good kill options (Knee, Raptor, Flc Kick, Flc Pawnch, DAir, BAir, Up Throw)
    +Easy to stage spike with
    +Good approach options
    +One of the best, if not the best, dash grabs in the game (Subjective)
    +Fast Running speed
    +Good weight
    -Not very many spacing options
    -Suffers a bit when being zoned out well (Mainly Projectiles)
    -Tall hurtbox
    -Standing Grab has very little range
     
  6. GdspdUblkprzdnt

    GdspdUblkprzdnt
    Expand Collapse
    Smash Journeyman

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2014
    Messages:
    375
    Location:
    Aguadilla, Puerto Rico
    NNID:
    GdspdUblkprzdnt
    :4samus:

    +Mix up heavy character great for people who like mindgames.
    +Heavy and floaty means less hits stun at earlier percentages and more survivability at later percentages.
    +Slows down rushdown characters with her approach countering tools.
    +jab 1

    -Deals poorly with pressure.
    -Heavy and floaty means she'll get juggled a lot.
    -Drastically different play style from the rest of the cast, as such tedious to pick up and learn.
    -jab 1
    -Be questioned constantly for your choice in main.
     
    #6 GdspdUblkprzdnt, Feb 23, 2015
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2015
    RoachCake and Zylach like this.
  7. pershona

    pershona
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    Smash Journeyman

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2014
    Messages:
    337
    Location:
    Oulu, Finland
    :4sheik:
    +Great movement.
    +Fast aerials, with very little lag
    +Great offstage game.
    +Can easily switch between camping and offense.
    +Great combos.

    -Can have a hard time killing.
    -Still somewhat light so can get KO'd easily if hit by a strong smash attack.
     
  8. Zachmac

    Zachmac
    Expand Collapse
    Smash Champion

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2014
    Messages:
    2,311
    Location:
    Arizona
    3DS FC:
    4210-4109-6434
    NNID:
    AbsolBlade
    :4charizard:[​IMG]
    Pros
    + Surprisingly good ground speed.
    + Rock Smash has incredible super armor and does tons of damage.
    + His jab, neutral air, and up smash are all fast moves that are easy to land(important for heavy weights to have).
    + Amazing grab range.
    + Extremely optimistic character.

    - Having two short air jumps limits your air speed, making follow up attacks difficult.
    - Large hurtbox, vulnerable to combos and projectiles.
    - Limited you spacing and approach options outside of Flamethrower.
    - Tricky character to master and use effectively.
    - Half of its health gets chipped away by stealth rocks, so don't forget to carry a pokemon with defog or rapid spin in your team.
     
    #8 Zachmac, Feb 24, 2015
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2015
  9. Cryz

    Cryz
    Expand Collapse
    Smash Cadet

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2014
    Messages:
    39
    :4kirby::

    Pros:
    -few landing lag on his moves
    -can crouch very low and duck under attacks
    - nice combo strings and follow ups
    -multiple jumps so difficult to gimp
    - copy abilities last longer than brawl
    -nice grab game and good pummel
    -kill throws

    Cons:
    -he's light
    -he has trouble approaching
    -difficult position when against heavy projectile characters
    -difficulties to kill the opponent
    - specials are not really useful
    -bad mobility
     
  10. Luco

    Luco
    Expand Collapse
    Smash Hero

    • Wii U Backroomer
    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2011
    Messages:
    9,225
    Location:
    The isle of venom, Australia
    3DS FC:
    2638-1462-5558
    NNID:
    dracilus
    :4ness:

    + most reliable kill move in the game (Bthrow) as well as a long list of other kill moves (Uair, Bair, Nair, Fsmash, PKT2, etc...)
    + Fantastic SH aerials that are usually easy to space well with and hard to punish (this one is debatable)
    + PKT juggles are the future
    - Struggles when being juggled
    - Can struggle offstage against certain characters
    - Average mobility leaves him more punishable than most
     
    #10 Luco, Feb 24, 2015
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2015
  11. TheRealBlueBlur

    TheRealBlueBlur
    Expand Collapse
    Smash Apprentice

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2014
    Messages:
    106
    Location:
    EV Training in Hoenn
    :4greninja:
    Pros:happysheep:
    +Has a fast Sheik/Melee feel
    +Water Shuriken - a long range, powerful, chargeable projectile
    +Decently long range smashes
    +Somewhat long range grab
    +One of the best d-airs in the game


    Cons:sadsheep:
    -Awkward combination of low air speed and fast falling speed (just like DDD)
    -Laggy tilts
    -Probably the worst Counter in the game
    -Mediocre special moves overall

    :4ganondorf:

    Pros:happysheep:
    +Incredible combo ability for a slow character (naturally from being a semi-clone of Captain Falcon)
    +Being a clone of CF in itself is a pro
    +Heavy and Powerful
    +Great tilts
    +Best d-air in the game IMO
    +Great reach contributes to his combo ability
    +Dat Side-B tho


    Cons:sadsheep:
    -Slow, gimpable recovery
    -A complete lack of a projectile
    -Easily juggled
     
  12. mimgrim

    mimgrim
    Expand Collapse
    Smash Hero

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2013
    Messages:
    9,219
    Location:
    Somewhere magical
    WTF kind of cons (and a pro as well) did I just read.

    First off Greninja has the 5th fastest air speed, he's the 3rd fastest faller, and 4th fastest fast faller.
    Only Ftilt is on the laggy side. Utilt has rather low endlag though and Dtilt comes out pretty fast.
    Palutena has the worst counter in the game. I still never use counter, but that is more of a personal thing of mine with counters in general.
    Shuriken, Shadow Sneak, and Hydro Pump are all great.
    Dair is far from being one of the best in the game with the risk involved in using it.
     
    #12 mimgrim, Feb 24, 2015
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2015
    SwoodGrommet, TTYK and wedl!! like this.
  13. TheRealBlueBlur

    TheRealBlueBlur
    Expand Collapse
    Smash Apprentice

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2014
    Messages:
    106
    Location:
    EV Training in Hoenn
    • Warning Received
    Wow, a Greninja fan. The only person I can think of who mains him is aMSa. Not surprised you were so quick to jump the gun and defend your main.
    His air speed isn't particularly slow. It is only slow for his speed archetype. And where did you pull that air speed number from?
    Shadow Sneak is laggy and terrible, and Hydro Pump only pushes opponents back instead of doing real knockback.
    At least Palutena's counter can actually hit. It also comes out faster.
    His d-air can hop off of opponents, and that allows for more aerial options.

    Maybe you should do your research a bit better before calling someone out like that.
     
    #13 TheRealBlueBlur, Feb 24, 2015
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2015
  14. mimgrim

    mimgrim
    Expand Collapse
    Smash Hero

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2013
    Messages:
    9,219
    Location:
    Somewhere magical
    • Warning Received
    Are you for real.

    http://smashboards.com/threads/wip-...-decisive-arts-pit-dark-pit-rectified.383217/
    http://smashboards.com/threads/smash-4-fall-fast-fall-rankings.384660/
    Shadow Sneak cancels hitstun and is a great trap move and is also good for edgeguarding. Hydro Pump is a fantastic edge guard move and resets the neutral.
    His Dair also has incredibly horribly landing lag making it way to risky for not enough reward unless you are sure beyond a doubt you can hit with it. Otherwise you are gonna get punished for using it.

    Do your ****ing homework.
     
    #14 mimgrim, Feb 24, 2015
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2015
    TTYK and Real Smooth-Like like this.
  15. TheRealBlueBlur

    TheRealBlueBlur
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    Smash Apprentice

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2014
    Messages:
    106
    Location:
    EV Training in Hoenn
    That was incredibly uncalled for. It's that type of attitude that gets people banned. I'm actually considering reporting you. If you are going to childishly defend your main at least keep it professional.
     
    #15 TheRealBlueBlur, Feb 24, 2015
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2015
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  16. ImReallyFeelingIt

    ImReallyFeelingIt
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    Smash Apprentice

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2014
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    82
    Location:
    North Carolina
    NNID:
    Sailings
    ew, Fighting on Smashboards. Don't want to get in the middle of a fight but:

    Shadow Sneak ending may be laggy, but it's far from terrible. It rewards well especially on high damage.
    Hydro Pump is... Meh, It's not slow, though, if used properly is can be unpredictable. And obviously it's gimpable. Like most recoveries that arn't teleporting. But in all honesty, It's probably the least gimpable of recoveries that arn't vanishing.
    And that dair is actually very risky. Offstage AND Onstage. I rather not use it at all.

    I don't main Greninja but this is my point of view battling him at least once a day and seeing him at tourneys.
     
    #16 ImReallyFeelingIt, Feb 24, 2015
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2015
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  17. TimeSmash

    TimeSmash
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    Smash Champion

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2006
    Messages:
    2,666
    Location:
    Inside a cheesecake
    NNID:
    nintend64
    :4peach:

    Pro:

    -Can float and has a technique applied to this called QFR, both of which are incredibly useful for spacing
    -Parasol open hitbox (while floating) can actually kill from above
    -Fair is incredibly strong
    -Dair is good for damage, approaching, and shield damage
    -Has a chance to pull a Stitchface for around 30% damage, Mr. Saturn which can easily break shields, or a Bob-Omb
    -Uair is disjointed, has semispike-esque properties, can go through the stage if opponent if above ledge
    -Dtilt has decent range and is decent for setups
    -FSmash can have customized range
    -Pulling turnips can alter the neutral game in many matchups
    -Has a counter
    -DSmash punishes rolls heavily and even some moves with heavier endlag

    Cons:
    -Incredibly floaty
    -Slow in general
    -Telegraphed recovery
    -Hard to kill with
    -Pulling a turnip is incredibly slow, Jesus
    -Can be severely outcamped, a problem in general and for floating
    -Fast characters are a huge problem for her, a problem in general and for floating
    -Counter is slow, severe endlag
    -USmash is strong but hard to hit with
     
  18. TheRealBlueBlur

    TheRealBlueBlur
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    Smash Apprentice

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2014
    Messages:
    106
    Location:
    EV Training in Hoenn
    It's alright, the "fight" was just ending.
    Shadow Sneak's ending lag and accuracy is so bad that I don't feel that any reasonable amount of damage could make up for it.
    Okay, calling Hydro Pump bad may have been an overstatement on my part. It's just...okay, I guess.
    D-air is very fast and has a large hitbox, so you're not very likely to miss.

    Also, thank you for not being a complete *** about stating my mistakes.
     
  19. FullMoon

    FullMoon
    Expand Collapse
    i'm just joking with you

    • Premium
    • Wii U Backroomer
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    Nov 2, 2014
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    Location:
    Rio de Janeiro, Brazil
    NNID:
    INFullMoon
    Okay, I'm just going to make my own list.

    :4greninja:

    + Recovery is among the best in the game both in how far it goes and how safe it is due to both Hydro Pump and Shadow Sneak
    + Mobility is among the best
    + Water Shuriken is a great projectile both for harassing the opponent when uncharged and either for combos or killing when charged.
    + Can reset to neutral very easily with good Hydro Pump usage.
    + Very fast dash grab with great range
    + Good range on his attacks
    + Great combo potential
    + Good kill setups
    + Very good edgeguarding game
    + Good power behind his moves
    + Shadow Sneak is a good mix-up move.

    - Poor options out of shield
    - Mediocre options for approaching.
    - Substitute can be unreliable
    - Commits really hard to his attacks
    - Terrible standing grab.
    - Somewhat laggy moves in general.

    That seems about right, I don't think I missed anything.
     
    #19 FullMoon, Feb 24, 2015
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2015
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  20. TheRealBlueBlur

    TheRealBlueBlur
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    Smash Apprentice

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2014
    Messages:
    106
    Location:
    EV Training in Hoenn
    Seems better than mine. Nice list.
     
  21. warionumbah2

    warionumbah2
    Expand Collapse
    Smash Master

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2012
    Messages:
    3,077
    Location:
    Playing KOF XIV
    :4metaknight:
    +Great match ups across the board only having 2 or 3 MU to look out for
    +Reliable kill setups on the whole cast
    +Disjointed hitboxes
    +Safe dash attack and F-Smash
    +Good dash grab with the falcon slide effect
    +9th fastest dash in the game as well as being 19-21 in air speed
    +OOS options one being a kill move another starting combo's
    +Can start combo's out of Uair,Dair,Utilt,Dtilt,DA,Back throw/Down throw/Forward throw
    +9 kill moves and strong advantage state
    +6 jumps allowing him to stall recoveries,landings,multiple edgeguard options by hovering in the air and bypass projectiles. Also allows him to zone some characters with dair.
    +Dimensional Cape giving him a free ticket out of disadvantage state,edgeguards and traps
    +Specials and F-Smash that deals alot of damage, Mach Tornado dealing 23% and 25% on BJ
    +Side B invalidates edgeguard attempts from most of the cast and stage spikes are pretty much guaranteed
    +Insane shield poking move



    -Damage per hit on his normals are as low as Sheiks
    -Lightweight
    -Poor Range
    -Aerials have significant end lag so he cannot use them in neutral
     
  22. smashkng

    smashkng
    Expand Collapse
    Smash Lord

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2009
    Messages:
    1,742
    Location:
    Malmö, Sweden
    3DS FC:
    0318-7423-9293
    NNID:
    Smashsk
    I decided to give Sheik and ZSS' pros and cons for now.

    :4sheik:
    Pros:
    -One of the best recoveries in the game
    -Great mobility both on the ground and in the air
    -One of the best rolls in the game, increasing her mobility and evasiveness on the ground
    -Great at punishing most things with sheer mobility, granting her one of the best neutral games.
    -Great mix ups and pressure game. SHFF Fair, SHFF empty jump, dash attack and dash grab mix up very effectively. Carries momentum well
    -Needles combo at higher percents and can put pressure into opponents to force them to approach
    -Has great zoning tools like Fair and Needles.
    -Has a lot of moves safe on shield when spaced correctly
    -Very quick moves in general
    -Has a very easy time landing a grab and has good follow-ups out of grab
    -Good combo game to rack up damage quickly at low and mid %s.
    -Great edge guarding


    Cons
    -Her KO moves usually require hard reads to set up. She has to either hard read (and hit with like Fsmash or Usmash, or hit with a Bouncing Fish offstage) which carries a lot of risk, wait until very high percents when Bair starts to KO, or KO by gimping the opponent. So she relies on carrying momentum to KO.
    -Most of her moves individually do very little damage. She has to combo to deal actual damage, which becomes harder at higher percents.
    -Somewhat light
    -Because of her lightweight and her difficulty setting up the KOs, the opponent will usually live very long against her. This her vulnerable to rage working against her and potentially getting KOed very early if the opponent successfully punishes her.
    -Average reach on her moves, while lacking in disjointed hitboxes on most of her moves

    :4zss:

    Pros:
    -Amazing recovery with lots of mix ups to recover with. Is very difficult to edgeguard
    -Amazing mobility, both on the ground and in the air. Has one of the fastest and highest jumps in the game and has good falling speed.
    -Combos easily from a lot of moves and her combos deal massive damage, making her punish game one of the most dangerous ones as she can rack up huge damage or KO with the blink of an eye. Has an effective juggle game. She can punish even the smallest of wrong commitments severely, like with Up b OoS.
    -Has a lot of KO moves. KOes very early with moves like down b and up b. Bair is a reliable KO move. Has many set ups into KO like Dthrow into Uair, Uair into Up b, or Dsmash into almost anything.
    -Very quick moves overall, including a frame 1 jab and a frame 3 Utilt, and a lot of them are safe on shield when spaced correctly.
    -Great reach on a lot of her moves, and a lot of her moves are disjointed, allowing her to control space well and pressure effectively.
    -Has pretty good mix ups, with dash attack travelling very far and her mobility to mix up between FF, non-FF and empty jump and well spaced aerials to make her trickier to predict.
    -Good grab game. Her grab is disjointed and has very long reach. Dthrow follow-ups easily into moves like Uair or Fair.
    -Resets relatively bad situations back into neutral easily, greatly helping her to take less damage when getting punished. Flip Jump is a great tool to get out of pressure and juggles.

    Cons
    -High learning curve. Requires good spacing and understanding of the character in order not to use her moves in the wrong situations.
    -Relies a lot on reads. Although sometimes her commitments are very low risk, other times she relies on high riskreads to punish severely. This makes her heavily reliant on conditioning and adapting to the opponent.
    -Some characters can crouch under a lot of her moves, including jab 1, Paralyser Utilt, Bair, Zair and neutral angled Ftilt, forcing her to adapt to that option.
    -Her grab is very slow and is highly punishable on whiff, making it risky to throw out most of the time.
    -Can sometimes have problems vs characters with strong OoS options and chars with a strong ability to whiff punish due to her grab being risky to throw out. This can make her struggle a little bit in neutral sometimes. Her shield pressure and mobility in general can make this significantly less of an issue.
    -Very light and relatively tall for her weight.
     
    David Viran likes this.
  23. wedl!!

    wedl!!
    Expand Collapse
    Goddess of Storms

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2014
    Messages:
    2,158
    Location:
    Soul Realm
    NNID:
    Plushies4Ever
    :4zss:
    pros:
    • extremely fast air and ground speed
    • great grab followup game
    • frame1 jab
    • recovery is actually usable now bc of ledge changes and boost kick
    • boost kick kills everyone near the top at like 100%
    • taser
    • bair is insane
    • arguably the second best utilt (:4mario: takes #1)
    • good range
    cons:
    • dair sucks
    • has options to kill but not a variety of them
    • grab is super punishable
    • overly commitment-based
    • extremely light
    • not that much of a presence offstage
    • crouching
     
    #23 wedl!!, Feb 24, 2015
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2015
  24. Meek Moths

    Meek Moths
    Expand Collapse
    Smash Ace

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2014
    Messages:
    544
    Location:
    New York
    help i cant find many cons of pit (i wonder why)

    so i far i can only thinkof no hit on up B and aerials dealing low damage

    but everything else is just too good or at least ok... fastest smashes,range, good dodges n rolls
     
    #24 Meek Moths, Feb 24, 2015
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2015
  25. TimeSmash

    TimeSmash
    Expand Collapse
    Smash Champion

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2006
    Messages:
    2,666
    Location:
    Inside a cheesecake
    NNID:
    nintend64
    Annoying *** voice?
     
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  26. vegeta18

    vegeta18
    Expand Collapse
    Smash Journeyman

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2012
    Messages:
    311
    i think for pit and dark pit, and a few other clones, ill basically just write the differences between them and then if there's anything note worthy about either of them we will add. Ill post an update of my first post with all the characters in the game by tonight. Thanks for all the help so far! makes my life a million times easier and i have really enjoyed the support all of you guys have been giving this post. ill cycle through and organize all the posts that were listed here as well.

    Once again thanks so much for everything guys! this is already turning out better than i expected. :)
     
  27. Weavile's Wrath

    Weavile's Wrath
    Expand Collapse
    Smash Apprentice

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2014
    Messages:
    121
    Location:
    Smashville
    :4marth:
    Pros:
    -Solid aerial game
    -Relatively fast moves
    -Tipper F Smashes kill at around 50%
    -Tippers in general
    -Has a kill throw
    -Fast Up B
    -Fastest walker, tied with Lucina
    -Has a shield breaking move
    -Everybody look at me

    Cons:
    -Increased aerial landing lag
    -Throws only do 3 or 4%
    -Combo game diminished
    -Bad horizontal recovery
    -Predictable recovery

    :4jigglypuff:

    Pros:
    -Rest
    -Throws do ~12%
    -Best aerial game of the cast
    -Recovery covers a lot of distance
    -F Air combos into itself
    -Great edgeguarding game
    -Has a shield breaking move

    Cons:
    -Slow ground speed
    -No Up B recovery
    -Rising Pound no longer a thing
    -Easy to edgeguard
    -Useless Up B, bad Neutral B
    -Generally slow ground moves

    :4ganondorf:

    Pros:
    -HITS SOOOOO HARD
    -Tilts kill
    -Disrespect points
    -Great Tech Chase move
    -Ganoncide, the victim dies first
    -Best D Air
    -Great punishes and hard reads

    Cons:
    -One of the worst recoveries
    -Punished to oblivion
    -Laggy aerials, esp. big landing lag
    -Slow
    -Doesn't use sword
    -Lacks combos
    -Huge hurtbox

    And that concludes my somewhat satirical analysis on the pros and cons of the above characters.
     
  28. Xuan Wu

    Xuan Wu
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    Heir to the Black Knight

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2013
    Messages:
    329
    Location:
    Tri-Cities, Michigan
    NNID:
    Xuanwu_2014
    :4myfriends:

    + Attacks generally inflict high damage and knockback, and have good range.
    + F-air and B-air, plus Quick Draw, are auto-cancellable from short-hop and full-hop heights, respectively.
    + Eruption, when timed properly, is a deadly edgeguarding tool.
    + Aether can stop characters that recklessly edgeguard, has super armor, and can occasionally spike near ledges.
    + Surprisingly good number of combos, considering his weight class.
    + Good ground and aerial mobility, considering his weight class.
    + Being a heavy prolongs his survivability, allowing him to take advantage of the rage mechanic.

    - Attacks are generally slow with considerable start-up and ending lag.
    - Recovery is linear and predictable.
    - Without custom specials enabled, edgeguarding ability is limited.
    - Being a heavy makes him susceptible to combos.

    ^-^
     
    TimeSmash likes this.
  29. TimeSmash

    TimeSmash
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    Smash Champion

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2006
    Messages:
    2,666
    Location:
    Inside a cheesecake
    NNID:
    nintend64
    I love this
     
  30. Weavile's Wrath

    Weavile's Wrath
    Expand Collapse
    Smash Apprentice

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2014
    Messages:
    121
    Location:
    Smashville
    I try my best.
     
    TimeSmash likes this.
  31. L9999

    L9999
    Expand Collapse
    Smash Champion

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2014
    Messages:
    2,387
    Location:
    the attic I call Magicant
    3DS FC:
    3780-9480-2428
    :4ness:
    +Good kill moves (PKT2, Bair, Uair, Rising Dair (maybe not), Bat and Down Samssh (maybe not) and of course Back Throw.)
    +Good racking up damage.
    +Best throw game overall.
    +Good edgeguarder.
    +Gain distance with aerials.
    +Esay time comboing and killing.
    +Useful specials (PK Fire and Thunder, PSI Magnet SOMETIMES)
    -Nyeh recovery even with customs.
    -Laggy specials that are easily punished if whiffed.
    -Slow speed makes him easy to punish.
    -He is easily juggled and has no landing option.
    -Nyeh smashes and tilts.
    -Dair is a pathetic excuse of a move, PK Flash is mostly useless and Down Tilt is an even worse move than Dair.
     
    ImReallyFeelingIt likes this.
  32. Putuk

    Putuk
    Expand Collapse
    Smash Ace

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2014
    Messages:
    905
    Location:
    None of your beeswax!
    3DS FC:
    2723-9688-6533
    Switch FC:
    SW-8387-2163-6416
    :4dedede:
    +Most disrespectful character in the game
    -Most disrespectful character in the game
     
  33. Weavile's Wrath

    Weavile's Wrath
    Expand Collapse
    Smash Apprentice

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2014
    Messages:
    121
    Location:
    Smashville
    That's the most incorrect thing I've ever read.
    :ganondorfmelee::ganondorf::4ganondorf:
    GANONDORF=DISRESPECT
    DISRESPECT=GANONDORF


    No rudeness intended, I have no problems with your opinion.
     
    #33 Weavile's Wrath, Feb 24, 2015
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2015
    moofpi, DakotaBonez and TimeSmash like this.
  34. Marrow

    Marrow
    Expand Collapse
    Speak softly and carry a Thick Club

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2015
    Messages:
    701
    Location:
    Just around the corner
    3DS FC:
    1993-9950-1450
    :4yoshi:

    Pros:
    -Speedy on the ground and in the air
    -Great zoning option in the egg toss
    -aerial grab in egg lay
    -ground pound can kill and can be set up with a jab
    -double jump armor
    -fairly heavy
    -unique shield mechanics which make his shield arguably better than everyone else's
    -his aerials, oh my GOD HIS AERIALS
    -up air is a reliable, quick kill move
    -nair is a combo breaker and a damn good one
    -dair can hit for 32%
    -comes in eight designer colors

    Cons:
    -gimped very easily, especially by footstools
    -standing grab is slow, dash grab is reckless
    -egg roll is meh
    -sakurai forgot three of yoshi's designer colors
     
    GokuEllis and TimeSmash like this.
  35. GSM_Dren

    GSM_Dren
    Expand Collapse
    Smash Journeyman

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2014
    Messages:
    388
    Location:
    Oahu, Hawaii
    :4drmario:
    + Up-B OoS and is a kill move
    + Bair wall for days
    + Pills cover a unique path
    + Down-B covers rolls and has good priority
    - Recovery is on the worser end
    - Slow movement in air and on the ground
    - Pills have significant ending lag

    :4yoshi:
    + OoS Nair/Upsmash, yes please
    + Jab 1 can be chained continuously, jab 2 has decent range
    + Fast in the air and on the ground
    + Eggs create a wall and can be used for approaching
    + Egg lay can be B-reversed, and create unique movement
    + Heavy character and will live longer
    - Pivot grab has to connect or else get punished big time
    - Can be footstooled to oblivion
    - Egg roll is still not good
     
    #35 GSM_Dren, Feb 24, 2015
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2015
  36. Pazx

    Pazx
    Expand Collapse
    hoo hah

    • Moderator
    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2009
    Messages:
    1,576
    Location:
    Canberra, Australia
    NNID:
    Pazx13
    :4dk:
    + He's the leader of the bunch
    + You know him well
    + He's finally back
    + To kick some tail
    + His coconut gun can shoot in spurts
    + If he shoots ya it's gonna hurt
    + He's bigger
    + Faster
    + Stronger too
    + He's the first member of the DK crew
     
  37. GhostUrsa

    GhostUrsa
    Expand Collapse
    Smash Ace

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2015
    Messages:
    523
    Location:
    Minnesota
    3DS FC:
    1220-6542-6727
    NNID:
    GhostUrsa
    I agree with all of this except this one.

    "- Without custom specials enabled, edgeguarding ability is limited."

    He may not have a lot of options, but the options he's got cover almost all recovery scenarios. My list would probably change it to
    "- Has limited edge-guarding against high recoveries." as it's the only area I feel Ike struggles when following through for a KO. His aerial options have great strength but are extremely predictable. Otherwise, his middle and deep edge-guarding are pretty spot on.
    Yeah, I'm nitpicking a little but I felt that was a little to generalized. Other than that, my list would be pretty much the same.
     
    Xuan Wu likes this.
  38. Putuk

    Putuk
    Expand Collapse
    Smash Ace

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2014
    Messages:
    905
    Location:
    None of your beeswax!
    3DS FC:
    2723-9688-6533
    Switch FC:
    SW-8387-2163-6416
    Crenando can't lay down like a lazy sack o' smug.
     
  39. Dee-SmashinBoss

    Dee-SmashinBoss
    Expand Collapse
    Smash Ace

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2015
    Messages:
    917
    :4kirby:
    Pros
    +Has fast attacks that can easily be used right after another move.
    +Great, long distance recovery
    +Fantastic edge-guarding game
    +Nice combo ability
    +Very low crouch(possibly the lowest in the game)

    Cons
    -Awful approach options
    -Poor mobility
    -Situational specials
    -Poor combo ability in his throws
    -Rather short ranged attacks
     
  40. vegeta18

    vegeta18
    Expand Collapse
    Smash Journeyman

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2012
    Messages:
    311
    anyone got some pros and cons for the 3 different mii`s?
     

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