Proposed Evo 2015 Smash 4 Ruleset: Customs Possible!

[Shawn Michael Slaughter]

You're acting as if all the possible combinations are viable. Certain combinations will be found to be far superior to others. In the end we will be dealing with much less once we learn what is the best.

Once you're exposed to these moves enough it won't impact you much at all to see different ones

But seriously just play melee.

Dude, get off your damn high horse. There are a lot of us that actually prefer Smash 4 to Melee, and there's nothing wrong with that or the vice versa. Melee is far more technical and fast-paced than any other Smash game. That's where the masters can shine and show off their prowess.

But for those of us who don't have that same level of skill or can't keep up with the pace Melee sets, we feel better playing Smash 4 as well as playing from a bigger roster with more characters that we like. I can't play Rosalina or Lucina in Melee now can I?

The Smash Community needs a second main game and Smash 4 should be that game. It's less intimidating for new players and is open to more people due to how much simpler it is than Melee. Let the Melee players have their more technical, fast-paced game, and let those of us who can't keep up or get the hang of those tech tricks play Smash 4. We're a community. We should be more open and allow new things to come along, games and players, instead of trying to cling to a single game with elitist mentalities. It's going to kill the scene and stave off new players.

TL;DR: Let people enjoy whatever Smash game they want. Keep Smash 4 in the competitive scene. Keep Melee in the competitive scene. Pull the sticks out of your butts.

 

[Alex Night]

"We just need the smash 4 meta to grow it'll get good eventually"
Its almost as promising as brawl and brawl was terrible from day 1 to now. None of its changes amounted to becoming good.

Smash 4 will be the same way brawl is. A few years down the road it will still be a terrible pile of crap of a game and you're foolish to think otherwise.

If you are a brawl player or a smash 4 player the absolute best thing you can do is drop the game completely and just pick up melee.

"You elitist scum!"
There is a difference between being an elitist and just being right when something is obviously a better choice no matter how you look at it. You guys are simply wrong about brawl and smash 4 being better. Thats just the hard facts and you need to accept it.

If you're at the bottom of a pool and I tell you its a better decision to eventually come up to breathe air than stay down there and drown are you going to call me elitist air breathing scum and stick to your drowning death metagame?
The better decision is obvious. Melee is simply the better game. This isn't something we push with opinions. We're just simply recognizing that it is the best and correcting people who made the wrong decision to play brawl/smash4 instead of a game thats infinitely more fun and hype.

If you don't have the money for melee yet just sell your smash 4/brawl to start making money for it. You won't regret it.

Melee the better choice regardless of what game there is... See, stuff like this gives me reason to not stand behind Melee fans. I can name you plenty of faults with Melee itself and you can't refute this. Look at Apex 2015 where players are now ditching their longtime mains for Fox. It's happened with Shroomed, it's happened with HungryBox although he is still trying with Jiggs, and now it's happening with Armada. Melee is now at that point where everybody is playing Fox and every other character is irrelevant and a Marth winning Apex 2015 doesn't change this as many, many players use Fox and Falco far more than Marth or Sheik.

Then there's how the actual game itself falls short on music, content, the controls are so stiff, and not to mention of the high and mighty attitude of Melee elitists, which you are, praising about Melee and talking down to the rest of the Smash games like "Smash 64 is out of date, just play Melee.", "Brawl is unbalanced trash.", "Project M isn't even a real game and is just piggybacking on Melee.", or "Smash 4 isn't even Melee and is just Brawl 2.0."

I guarantee you that Melee is far from balanced. There's only "balance" within the Top 8. Do I even need to mention Sheik who completely invalidates over half of the cast with just one simple Chain Throw?

I get that Melee is amazing, I really do. However, it isn't the best Smash game out there and people need to stop treating it as such. It's like looking at people who say that Ocarina of Time is the best Zelda game ever. From my standpoint, I see Project M as a better game than Melee solely because of better balance and more things to do with the actual mod itself like Stamina and All Star Versus. It doesn't make my opinion right just like your opinion about Melee being the better game in comparison to Smash 4 isn't right. You can't even compare those two games because they play on different engines and environments, so what's the point in saying that it's better when you can't even compare them?

Spoiler

 

[Anthonio WIlliams]

I like customs, but I personally dont think they should be allowed in tourneys

 

[byebye]

Each character has 4 specials with 2 additional alternative Custom move for each, which grants them 12 special moves total. Those 12 special moves can be arranged in any way that the player wants from the 3 different choices between all 4 customs (Such as "2122" Mii Brawler for example)

3 x 3 x 3 x 3 = 81 different possibilities. And that's just for one character...

But now, if you were to make the choice to change between games. where now you have option to change to one of the other 51 characters with a completely different set combination.

81 x 51= 4131 possible combinations...

this computation is overblown.
in smash w/o customs. every char has.
jab -> jab combo, 3 tilts, 3smashes, 5 aerials, grab, dash attack, 4 specials. without counting aerial specials. a total of 18 different possible offensive moves.
you need to learn 8 other moves on top of that 18.
and those 8 are just variations of the already existing 4.

in contrast, in SF. say sakura:
6 neutral attacks, 6 crouching, 6 neutral airs, 6 forward airs, overhead kick, throw, focus attack, 3 QCB+K, 3 DP+P, 3 QCF+P, super, 3 EX moves, utlra.
total of 40.

and imagine. custom moves really are just like sakura's charged hadouken. sakura can either fire a:
fast to come out, long range, low damage, small hit box hadouken
or
slow to come out, short range, good damage, big hitbox hadouken

relate that to mario's fireball. familiar?

in Smash4 custom, we have to select which type of fireball to use
in Smash4 w/o, we are stuck with the default
in SF, all kind of fireball are available out of the box

we have just 20ish offensive move to worry about, while they worry about 40ish. and we cry coz of additional 8 other moves, which are just variants of existing one, no wonder FGC look down on us.

 

[CaliburChamp]

I hope to God there's no customs at Apex 2016. Let's try vanilla for at least another year and incorporate customs progressively through other regional and local tournaments. Smash Wii U isn't going anywhere for a while.

As a hardcore player, it shouldn't take a whole year to adapt to the metagame unless you're really bad at the game. This is tournaments were are talking about where hardcore players come to play. After 3 months, most people have their customs unlocked for their mains and know the Smash 4 metagame well enough to know which characters are strong and know which characters are counterpicks.

I'm fine with the first year of Apex being with no customs. As this showed how plain Smash 4 is without them. Something needs to change. It will give Smash 4 more longetivity, to hopefully outlive Brawl's. And Smash 4 needs something different compared to Melee.

 

[Omegascizor456]

Evo is gonna be HYPE!!! Cant wait:D

 

[Rango the Mercenary]

I get that Melee is amazing, I really do. However, it isn't the best Smash game out there and people need to stop treating it as such. It's like looking at people who say that Ocarina of Time is the best Zelda game ever. From my standpoint, I see Project M as a better game than Melee solely because of better balance and more things to do with the actual mod itself like Stamina and All Star Versus. It doesn't make my opinion right just like your opinion about Melee being the better game in comparison to Smash 4 isn't right. You can't even compare those two games because they play on different engines and environments, so what's the point in saying that it's better when you can't even compare them?

You had me until Ocarina of Time. My favorite Zelda game is A Link to the Past and my second favorite is now A Link Between Worlds, with Ocarina of Time being #3. You can never deny that OoT has contributed greatly to gaming, but the reason I respect that opinion is because it's more than an opinion - it's more or less a fact. Never again will we see a game that adds up to the sum of its parts and ends up being the greatest game of all time. Every Zelda game that has come out has ranged from great to bad, and all of them have had a flaw or two that keeps them from ever reaching the legacy or level of quality that sets Ocarina of Time apart from the rest of the series.

Likewise, I will never see Melee as the supreme Smash game. Brawl already challenged it with its character diversity. And not being a fan of wavedashing and the like, I never bothered playing it competitively. I preferred Brawl's style. Unfortunately, it had its own problems, like tripping, even worse balance, and when it lost online, it became a shell of its former self. So I did play Melee for a while. But neither game will ever be as good as Smash Wii U. This game is just too amazing and has done everything well, from balance to character diversity.

 

[RDT]

It's pretty crazy that customs weren't available to begin with. We are less than a year into Smash's 4 existence and banning things without exploring them. Especially something that just really adds characters to the game, even if the only difference is their B moves.

Over time I could see specific customs found to be broken and banned sure, but we obviously don't know it yet. Come on now.

 

[RDT]

Brawl's 1st Evo had items if I remember correctly. Sure it didn't work, but it's not like it killed the game or anything.

 

[Squ0ldrive]

Brawl with items. They like to try stuff out, and if it doesn't work it's not coming back.

Brawl with items has its fun monents

 

[Squ0ldrive]

Brawl with items has it's fun moments

 

[warriorman222]

Brawl with items has its fun monents

I know, I loved when a Smash Ball spawned next to me as Sonic. I was using that as an example that they like to try things out, and if the people hate it it's not coming back. If customs flop, they won't be at EVO 2016. Simple as that.

 

[kraven202]

Customs at Evo sounds like such a great idea, however I fear that the way people are proposing it might just not work out. If customs ruin Evo because of how long they take or because other reasons then that's it for customs, custom will be done forever.

Now here's the thing: There's just way too much effort to be put from the community and the TOs and far too many complications with trying to use the Custom moveset project on such a large event. Now don't get me wrong; I'm all up for custom moves and I wish this could be done much easier. It could if Sakurai didnt decide to put something so awesome in the game then do it in the most horrible way humanly possible (by making them so hard to obtain and then so annoying and time consuming to equip instead of making a side menu on the character selection screen...) but... that did not happen and we're stuck with this...

Mixed sets also bring a lot of complications to the table like a very unstable metagame because movesets are going to keep changing constantly. There are so many combinations that it's going to be much much harder on players to adapt to match ups. Yes, you could select the 10 best movesets for each chararacter--but that also kinda defeats the purpose of allowing mixed sets which is to allow everyone to use their movesets and not something pre-determined. But if we allow people to use their movesets it would take way too much time...

Now here's the thing... I'm in favor of mixed sets, in fact that should be the goal for everyone using customs, and if you guys manage to pull that off for Evo then that'd be freaking amazing, however consider this...

If the custom moveset project goes down and it cant happen then at least we should make a Plan B which is to allow custom however they can only be used 2222 and 3333 and I know I know what you're all going to say: That it's not worth it and that you'd rather not use anything at all instead, but if that's the only way custom moves ever get to see the light of day then we should at least do it like that..

Doing it like this has its fair share of advantages too. It's much easier to set up, movesets don't constantly change, players won't have so much trouble adapting, a much more stable metagame, less trouble for both the TOs and the community... Even if it's just 2222 and 3333, a lot of characters already benefit a lot from it. (Mostly the bottom tiers)

For customs to happen, everyone needs to be on the same page. If you want customs to happen you need to agree on a stable way to make it happen; otherwise its just a mess of people saying they want it their way and that just scares the TOs because its so confusing and hard to apply. Same thing applies for Mii height/weight; just accept default/default and stop asking to be able to change the H/W because it's just not going to happen.

Bottom line, get on the same page and organize yourselves, the goal should be the custom moveset project, but if that can't happen then at least consider going for plan B so custom moves actually get to see some action.

 

[CHOMPY]

Whats the difference between "Gamer Handly" and "Shoryuken.com Username"?

 

[Charey]

Whats the difference between "Gamer Handly" and "Shoryuken.com Username"?

Gameer Handle is what you want to be called during the tournament, the user name is for if you have a account on thier forum already.