Project M Social Thread

[JOE!]

Lol, leffen mad salty about getting jv4stocked by jcz.

Isn't this going to be a problem for a long time however? Due to characters being on a more even playing field, even good players from melee would have trouble against a good newcomer using a previously bad or new character, and if the newcomer wins vs the melee vet who isn't as dominating... well the johns come out.

#Icalledit

 

[DrinkingFood]

Why is it that when I make these arguments in response to Ike's success, he gets nerftweaked in the next demo
But when everyone else makes these arguments in response to Leffen's loss at the hands of a new character, everyone's all like "lol silly leffen, don't you know nobody knows these matchups?"

 

[Archangel]

Allow me to clarify what I mean:

Upthrow --> upair with Fox is not an auto combo, because the Fox has to react to his opponent's DI. It's still a combo (most of the time) if done correctly, but it's not an auto combo.

An example of an auto combo in Melee would be Wobbling, since it's 100% execution once you've started it.

^this

Besides....how can it not be melee-like to have combos(even auto ones) when they exist for just about every viable character?

 

[ELI-mination]

So I went ahead and made a rough draft of what the Demo 3 CSS is going to look like, you know, to satisfy everyone who wants it to be more melee-like.

 

[GaretHax]

So I went ahead and made a rough draft of what the Demo 3 CSS is going to look like, you know, to satisfy everyone who wants it to be more melee-like.

idnno in order to be really accurate about half of the Foxes should be Shieks and Falcos, maybe one more Marth, a couple Peaches, and a handful of Falcons... Also can I request a Taj button? Ooo or a Kage button... Axe button anyone? Come to think of it where's the Muffin Button?

 

[Archangel]

honestly, the lack of a peach in that picture kind of ruins the joke. If this is going off melee results of recent years there should be alot more falco in that. As well as the occasional Samus, Ganon, Pikachu.

 

[cannedbread]

is there any footage of project m at apex

 

[batistabus]

JCaesar's already uploaded some money matches on his Youtube channel. The other stuff will hopefully be released sometime this week.

http://www.youtube.com/user/JCaesar007?feature=sub_widget_1

 

[standardtoaster]

I have two friendlies on my channel

 

[cannedbread]

thanks but i mostly want to see footage of leffen getting planked apparently

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Anything of me?

 

[cannedbread]

you too reflex

but i like watching matches of people being camped/being put in unfavorable situations, they're probably among some of my favorite sorts of matches

i actually had a camping playlist on youtube but google is dumb and i don't know how it disappeared

 

[bubbaking]

Also, Bubbaking, surprising lack of Fox's in the Top 8 of Apex 2013 Melee lol. Just sayin.

I've always talked about both spacees in Melee. PP got 2nd and Mango got 4th. What's your point?

Edit: Not sure, but I bet M2K went Fox during Apex as well.

Edit 2: If Armada wasn't such a good player, a spacee would have won this (inter)national. PP's Marth was just to counter dumb Peach.

 

[McNinja]

Hmm I've been detecting a lot of Peach hate from you lately Bubba.

 

[bubbaking]

Haven't you heard? She's my least liked character in all of Smash, even in Brawl, not even joking. I don't actually have anything against the char except for that nearly everything Samus does she can do better. She's pretty well-designed, IMO. FCs are a really cool thing and I'm glad that even in Brawl she still has them. Still, my persona personally as a person does not like Peach. I HATE that *****!

Edit: And at least I'll admit that I hate Peach, unlike Kink and his.....secret anti-Falcon fetish.

I'm not sure what leffen's referring to exactly, but fox's uthrow uair is not an auto combo, since you have to follow the opponents DI.

I don't see what you're trying to say here. ALL "auto combos" have to follow the opponent's DI. Even NTSC Melee Sheik's dthrow > fair/uair followed this simple rule. Same goes for 2.1 Lucario's uthrow > bair. Fox's uthrow > uair is just as bad as the rest of them.

 

[Hylian]

You guys really have no idea what an auto combo is huh? LOL. Neither Melee or PM have a single autocombo.

 

[ELI-mination]

I don't see what you're trying to say here. ALL "auto combos" have to follow the opponent's DI. Even NTSC Melee Sheik's dthrow > fair/uair followed this simple rule. Same goes for 2.1 Lucario's uthrow > bair. Fox's uthrow > uair is just as bad as the rest of them.

I agree with this so much.

 

[Meme]

Just got back home after Apex and a few days at NYC...

It was really nice to play P:M with several people over at APEX, too bad there were only a few setups, I hope next year it gets a bigger expo. I saw it was attracting a bunch of people to it.

 

[DrinkingFood]

I think there are two definitions of auto combos going on here
One being anything that can be easily followed up by a human with a proper read against a human with human limits, such as falcon's everything
and the the other being something inescapable due to the physics governing the game when executed at a human level, such as wobbling or shine infinite on certain characters

EDIT: Oh and hylian seems to think it' something completely different, I'm guessing he's saying it's a combo that works without you doing anything, hence the "auto" part

 

[Hylian]

I think there are two definitions of auto combos going on here
One being anything that can be easily followed up by a human with a proper read against a human with human limits, such as falcon's everything
and the the other being something inescapable due to the physics governing the game when executed at a human level, such as wobbling or shine infinite on certain characters

EDIT: Oh and hylian seems to think it' something completely different, I'm guessing he's saying it's a combo that works without you doing anything, hence the "auto" part

Uh, there is one definition for auto-combo, and neither of those are correct.

Those would be called chain combos(or strings for 3d fighters) and infinite combos respectively.

An auto-combo is a combo that completes itself if you get the first hit, without requiring additional inputs. Melee/PM have nothing like this due to the nature of the game mechanics.

 

[cannedbread]

I FOUND IT

http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL-XSvTFY216sr_hpQx2FaWdfbdMYT2U4S

enjoy my playlist of some of melee's best camping

although some matches have only a couple of minutes of camping it's still pretty campy

 

[JCaesar]

thanks but i mostly want to see footage of leffen getting planked apparently

I'm afraid you'll be disappointed then. There was no planking that I ever saw in this tournament.

 

[bubbaking]

Hylian is correct, but please Hylian, stay in context. We all know that nothing is free in this world.

I think there are two definitions of auto combos going on here
One being anything that can be easily followed up by a human with a proper read against a human with human limits, such as falcon's everything

***** plz, that's just Kink. Those are part of what we call mindgames, among other things, aka outplaying your opponent.

As for Fox U-throw to Uair, sure you can sort of DI out of it, but they're also in the perfect position to regrab you again, and you're always likely to get hit the second time. I mean come on, we've seen many matches where a player missed the u-throw to uair once but then immediately regrabbed, did it again, and then ***** the opponent. It's difficult to DI out of because most of the time (imo) they take you by surprise.

While I do think Fox's uthrow > uair is stupidly easy, if he messes up and then re-grabs you, I think that's really because you LET him re-grab you. This isn't '08.

 

[DrinkingFood]

@hylian, I wasn't saying there were multiple definitions or that either of those were right, just that that's what people were saying and that it was the source of the confusion

@bubba, I don't think you quite understood what I said there. I was implying that the "proper read" was landing a hit before the opponent can escape via airdodging/attacking/jumping etc; I wasn't referring to anything at neutral or even "mind games", but rather a combo, since that's, ya'know, the topic at hand here.

 

[cannedbread]

what's the difference between an auto combo and a true combo

 

[GHNeko]

what's the difference between an auto combo and a true combo

an auto combo is a true combo. It's a sub category of true combo at that point.

 

[Hashtag]

So leffen believes if he's better than you in melee, he should be better in PM as well by default. When he knows as little about new matchups as the person next to him does.

I've always been of the mindset that pro players are generally better at the matchup than than you and making decisions. Most pros aren't leagues ahead in technical aspect of the game.

So when you are on a more neutral setting with balanced characters and more even playing field when I comes to matchups... Then what happens?

Do people have more of a chance against pro melee players? Is the learning curve less steep to cross that threshold because the game is still new?

 

[PGH Carroll]

im with leffen. this game blows.
IKE nation tho

 

[GHNeko]

i honestly cant tell if carroll is joking or not atm.

 

[bubbaking]

I don't think you quite understood what I said there. I was implying that the "proper read" was landing a hit before the opponent can escape via airdodging/attacking/jumping etc; I wasn't referring to anything at neutral or even "mind games", but rather a combo, since that's, ya'know, the topic at hand here.

I see what you're saying, but you also said "such as Falcon's everything", which led me to believe you were referring to Kink and his incredible hate for good tech-chases. To be honest, Falcon's 'combos' often consist of him reading whether you will try to DJ out of a combo or just DI down + away. Some of his stuff really are true combos, but a lot of it are just fast, honest-to-goodness reads.

More critique on this game:

as far as i could tell, most of the characters were better designed when i played last time (feb last year). i don't think it's about the characters that are fine as-is so much as smoothing out the rough edges as they come up.

just from observation, sonic was by far the worst designed. whenever there is a sonic on the screen, the entire game is warped around him regardless of what's actually going on. this lead to some visibly awful situations in free play, including the inability to intentionally 3 vs 1 him effectively, sonic's own teammate getting gang-***** 100% of the time for not being sonic (unless sonic stops you), and a player in the finals (theoretically one of the two best players in the room) not knowing what to do against the character mid-set. sonic is an egregiously awful character design and was consistently soft-banned from free play the entire weekend to keep the game playable. i can't stress enough the intense amount of bad that went into this character. really, what were you thinking.

link was...no. make him bad at literally anything. jesus christ.

DK having a better macro game than captain falcon is sketchy, although that just may be my inexperience vs the character. the character heavily encourages grab > moves until KO, and there's a lot of characters that are polarizing like that but don't have DK's weight or grab range.

squirtle, marth, falcon, fox, falco, wolf, mario, ganon, ike, bowser, samus, wario, etc all seemed fine- for now. as people continue to find holes, they will continue to need revisions.

by far the best part about this game so far is the exclusion of olimar.

I guess this is why we don't have more high-level Melee players playing P:M.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Do people have more of a chance against pro melee players? Is the learning curve less steep to cross that threshold because the game is still new?

This, probably. 2.5 is new and not everyone knows all the matchups (I was learning a fair amount of them while there). No one knows of all the exploits and tricks, so it's easy to get caught off-guard.

Most players in Melee have already gotten about as good as they're gonna get. Most players in PM haven't even started to grow in skill yet. Practice makes perfect.

 

[Deleted member]

what's the difference between an auto combo and a true combo

an auto combo is a retardedly easy combo that you have an excessive amount of time to react to and could not possibly miss mid-seizure. ex. the only real autocombo in melee is sheik's downthrow > moves.

 

[PGH Carroll]

lol tbh i really dont like this game.

im in there for the Ikes tho.

 

[Revven]

lol tbh i really dont like this game.

I am dissapoint.

 

[GP&B]

You guys.

Fox DThrow to Shine is clearly the best autocombo in the game.

 

[ELI-mination]

Try not to pay too much attention to those "criticisms" of P:M that were just posted. They're laughably misinformed.

 

[bubbaking]

Of course. Shine makes everything a combo.

On the subject of port priority with regards to grabbing:

In most, if not, all fighting games, whenever both characters try to grab each other it results in a break away type situation. Would it be possible to have this sort of thing happen in P:M? Instead of one character grabbing the other because they just happened to be player 1 (or player 4, I'm not sure how it works with grabbing), they both perform they're grab release animations. I'm not sure if the PMBR already thought of doing this, but I think it would solve a few problems.

I'm not 100% sure, but I believe grab priority for simultaneous grabs in vBrawl/P:M is actually random, which is more fair than a certain port always winning. Port priority in vBrawl/P:M applies to other things, such as who gets sent flying when both chars in a grab situation are hit at the same time.

honestly, the lack of a peach in that picture kind of ruins the joke. If this is going off melee results of recent years there should be alot more falco in that. As well as the occasional Samus, Ganon, Pikachu.

As well as the occasional Samus, Ganon, Pikachu.

occasional Samus

Samus

Whaaa.....? Since when has Samus won a large tournament of any sort?

 

[#HBC | Joker]

didn't one just take 2nd place at Apex in melee doubles?

 

[ELI-mination]

Plz stop quoting archangel i have him ignored

 

[cannedbread]

to be honest i sort of like reading criticism about project m as long it's as objective as possible and not misinformed

umbreon's little quips about it were okay but i would like if it were expanded on a bit