Project M Social Thread

[leelue]

What's the command difference for homing and non-homing?

I think Sonic needs these kind of options, so I approve.

Sonic has like... the most options ever (after ike)

 

[Comeback Kid]

Sonic has like... the most options ever (after ike)

Yeah, but Ike is considered one of the best characters whereas Sonic is at best low-mid. Having a less predictable mid-air dash attack (ala his flame shield in S3&K) bumps him up a tad.

 

[V-K]

Welp it seems like everyone's on the EVO hype train, so i'll ask this: Is captain falcon any better in 2.5, i'm not talking about buffs, but instead from what you guys have seen on stream (i can't watch streams btw) is he any smoother looking or anything, kinda like marth is looking alot smoother and faster (i think it was his dash animation that got changed).
And could anyone tell me how squirtle looked...please

Falcon has slightly better recovery because he can use the sideB to recover. However I think the PMBR should definitely buff him a bit in the final release. While he was definitely high in the tier list in Melee he simply wasn't as good as Fox, Falco or Marth, that's out of question.

 

[Pimpfish]

No one is asking them to give up their lives for this project. Some of us are just frustrated that we were told we would get an announcement every saturday and we have been let down multiple times now. So you can get off your knees for the project m team, no one is attacking them.

Shadic, thanks for the clarification. I'm happy you said something instead of letting us sit in the dark...and that's all I was asking for.

i was just voicing my very valid opinion. chill out mang

Sonic should be able to do fine, just like falcon. falcon is good because of mindgames, because hes fast. sonic should be good.

 

[JCaesar]

Hey, just wanna let everyone know (while I still have power and internet access) that the Xanadu and Legion streams on Tuesday and Wednesday this week are at best unlikely to happen. But I'm sure others will fill in at some point, especially with all the great new PMBR members, including metroid1117, Rat, Professor Pro, Fuzzyness, Sethlon, Vist, and BuckOhFive!

 

[bubbaking]

I'm re-posting this:
Anyway, some of you may remember that I posted about a month ago with regards to the growing P:M scene at Stony Brook University. Well, I'm proud to say that we're finally hosting a legit tournament. Check it out:
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=329148

I'll probably re-post this tomorrow when there's more activity on this thread.

 

[GHNeko]

yo

Milkman's Lucas

is way too good

 

[9Kplus1]

@bubbaking - Bair, Razor Leaf, Seed Bomb and pivot grabbing neutralize rush down characters pretty well.

(while I still have power and internet access)

>Implying that the upcoming storm is something to worry about lulz

 

[bubbaking]

@bubbaking - Bair, Razor Leaf, Seed Bomb and pivot grabbing neutralize rush down characters pretty well.


>Implying that the upcoming storm is something to worry about lulz

None of those work well (or at all) OoS, so I'm gonna hafta stick with my original opinion that Ivy will crumple in the face of extreme rushdown. Fighting against that nearly always involves sitting in shield at some point during the match and thus having a great shield game is of utmost importance.

Edit: To exemplify, I will list some other zoning chars who don't fall to fast, speedy, aggro critters. Samus has a great sex kick, bomb, and upB to use OoS. Her WD OoS is really handy too (how good is Ivy's WD?). The Links also have great sex kicks and their upB's are great OoS punishers for mistakes, breaks, and bad decisions in shield pressure. Falco is Falco.

 

[Mono.]

Ivy'll be fine.

 

[9Kplus1]

None of those work well (or at all) OoS, so I'm gonna hafta stick with my original opinion that Ivy will crumple in the face of extreme rushdown. Fighting against that nearly always involves sitting in shield at some point during the match and thus having a great shield game is of utmost importance.

Your theorysmashing makes me want to crash my head into a block of Katchin . You're implying that every character with bad OoS options will have trouble with "extreme" rushdown characters; well, that's just untrue. DDD, ROB, and Ike, for example, do reasonably well against rushdown characters despite lacking potent (though, still usable) OoS options. Their ability to effectively keep those characters out lessens the chance of them having to deal with being pressured by cute furry animals or a touchy hermaphrodite. Ivysaur is no different. Between rolling, grabbing, Fair / Bair spam, Razor Leaf, Seed Bomb, and Ftilt, rushdown characters will have a pretty tough time getting in, let alone keeping Ivy still long enough to actually capitalize on laying a hand on her.

and Ivy's WD isn't anything special, but it's good enough to consider using defensively.

 

[Jolteon]

My main concern regarding Ivy is that she will crumble in the face of extreme rush-down, despite being a zoning queen. When I say "extreme rush-down," I'm mostly talking about the spacees, Sheik, and Lucario. I don't see how Ivy is supposed to combat against their ridiculous CQC games.

Anyway, some of you may remember that I posted about a month ago with regards to the growing P:M scene at Stony Brook University. Well, I'm proud to say that we're finally hosting a legit tournament. Check it out:
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=329148

I'll probably re-post this tomorrow when there's more activity on this thread.

ivy does fine vs rush down, and sheik is hardly a rush down char.

 

[Ishiey]

yo

Milkman's Lucas

is way too good

Any videos? :o

Also +1 for Ivy having a tough time with kills. I think some of her throws could stand to gain a bit more power so that they KO at like, idk, ~150-160 instead of 200 lol

 

[9Kplus1]

Yeah, at least Bthrow needs a power buff imo

 

[GHNeko]

yeah
i got plenty of videos

hours worth

now i just need motivation to spend the time chopping them up

 

[9Kplus1]

I'll $30 MM you the next time you come to MD if you split that footage up

There's your motivation =]

 

[GHNeko]

why would i want to play against you?

you cant even take this game seriously

Kappa

 

[9Kplus1]

I take money very seriously

 

[CORY]

why would i want to play against you?

you cant even take this game seriously

Kappa

in that case, he's basically saying:

yo dawg, i'll pay you 30 bucks to split that footage up.

go for it!

 

[GHNeko]

when you put it in that perspective...

guess i better get on it.

 

[iLink]

Pikachu is a pretty cool guy. QAC shenanigans are kinda fun. Just need to figure out how to use this crazy uair.

Is he getting changed at all in 2.5? He seems pretty solid and I can't even think of anything to change.

 

[stingers]

pikachus really good atm, if he needed anything, it'd be a nerf rather than a buff lol. But I don't think he needs any changes. hes really fun to play and really good.

 

[9Kplus1]

Pikachu is a pretty cool guy. QAC shenanigans are kinda fun. Just need to figure out how to use this crazy Uair.

Flick your C-stick up or press "Attack" while holding up. It's literally the easiest Uair to understand and use in this game... Rudeness aside, just Uair behind shields (following a QAC or overshot Nair) and optimize the tail spike for gimps.

and aside from a few throw tweaks, Pika is unchanged from 2.1.

 

[iLink]

I meant the hit trajectory of uair. Don't really fully understand when the opponent will be knocked upward or semi-spiked.

 

[bubbaking]

If you hit with the tip of the tail, you get the semi-spike. If you hit with the 'meatier' portion of the attack (I guess you could say Pika's butt), then you hit them upwards. The move also has a backwards semi-spike that hits at a similar angle as the regular spike but in the opposite direction. IIRC, you get this if you hit with the back of Pika's tail.

Is he getting changed at all in 2.5? He seems pretty solid and I can't even think of anything to change.

I can think of one easy. Give him his Melee QA distance. It wouldn't be too great of a buff. It would just let him do easier what he did extremely well in Melee: go super deep for a gimp and still recover just fine. Other than that, though, he's already pretty solid.

Your theorysmashing makes me want to crash my head into a block of Katchin . You're implying that every character with bad OoS options will have trouble with "extreme" rushdown characters; well, that's just untrue. DDD, ROB, and Ike, for example, do reasonably well against rushdown characters despite lacking potent (though, still usable) OoS options. Their ability to effectively keep those characters out lessens the chance of them having to deal with being pressured by cute furry animals or a touchy hermaphrodite. Ivysaur is no different. Between rolling, grabbing, Fair / Bair spam, Razor Leaf, Seed Bomb, and Ftilt, rushdown characters will have a pretty tough time getting in, let alone keeping Ivy still long enough to actually capitalize on laying a hand on her.

and Ivy's WD isn't anything special, but it's good enough to consider using defensively.

Not theorysmashing. This is the impression I got after I played Ivy myself in the latest developer's build. I have huge interests in picking up Ivy once 2.5 is officially released. I don't really believe DDD does well against rushdown. He's really good at punishing mistakes on shield pressure and he's good at dealing with opponents at mid-range. ROB has a good CC that he can follow up on with dtilt and dsmash, and he has a great shieldgrab. Ike has two amazing jabs and great tilts. Ivy's not heavy, so her CC ability isn't great, and she also doesn't really have good CC follow-ups. At least, that's what I felt when I played her.

Don't get me wrong; I think Ivy was a very well-designed character. I just think she's gonna have certain problems in specific MUs. That's what every char is supposed to have.

 

[cannedbread]

I meant the hit trajectory of uair. Don't really fully understand when the opponent will be knocked upward or semi-spiked.

i think the tip of the tail is the backwards semi spike and his butt knocks you upwards

 

[Jolteon]

I meant the hit trajectory of uair. Don't really fully understand when the opponent will be knocked upward or semi-spiked.

It has 4 hitboxes on it which will send at different trajectories, N64 had a very in-depth explanation of it in one of his posts. In general though, the tip of the tail will semi-spike.

That is, if it's the same as it works in Melee.

bubbaking: Why does Ivy need good cc options to deal with CQC? Her pivot grab and bair are imo great tools for dealing with pressure, I don't think she needs more.

 

[leelue]

He just likes to bubbak

 

[bubbaking]

Pretty much, hit with the butt to combo into something else, like DJ bair, nair, or the semi-spike uair (I think dair might work, too; Pika has so many combo options ). Space it a bit more and hit with the tail's tip to get your spike for gimps. However, I've often frustrated myself by going for the spike and getting the reverse-spike. It's really easy to accidentally get one instead of the other.

@Jolteon, I simply mentioned CC options because 9Kplus1 listed characters without great OoS options as a counterpoint to my argument that Ivy lacks OoS options. I simply mentioned that many of those chars who lack OoS options have weight and/or CC abilty/options to balance that trait out. Ivy, however, has neither weight, CC ability/options, nor a good OoS game. From my experience with the char, her pivot grab and bair prevent pressure from being applied to Ivy (the very concept of zoning, as it were); they do little to alleviate pressure once it has actually been applied.

 

[Strong Badam]

Ivysaur is pretty heavy, comparatively. IIRC she's just as heavy as Mario.

 

[bubbaking]

I guess we have different opinions of what constitutes "heavy." I always saw Mario as a mid-weight character. :/

Edit: But I can see him being labelled as a heavier char, though...

I don't think she needs more.

Again, don't get me wrong. I think Ivy is a balanced and very well-designed char. Definitely one of my favorites out of the newcomers, hence my expectation to pick her up when v2.5 comes out. I also don't think she needs any more additions in the way of buffs or new features.

 

[ELI-mination]

I hope you all pick up Ivy so tournies will be that much easier for me.

 

[bubbaking]

#Foreshadowing

 

[Strong Badam]

He's barely lighter than Falcon/Link.

 

[Jolteon]

@Jolteon, I simply mentioned CC options because 9Kplus1 listed characters without great OoS options as a counterpoint to my argument that Ivy lacks OoS options. I simply mentioned that many of those chars who lack OoS options have weight and/or CC abilty/options to balance that trait out. Ivy, however, has neither weight, CC ability/options, nor a good OoS game. From my experience with the char, her pivot grab and bair prevent pressure from being applied to Ivy (the very concept of zoning, as it were); they do little to alleviate pressure once it has actually been applied.

Ah, I see.

Ivy's weight isn't bad, and I understand the distinction between a character having an option that combats an approach in the neutral game compared to an option that can deal with a character who's in CQC, but I think bair and pivot grab deals with both aspects. Her bair isn't like Marth's fair where the effective range is limited to its max-range, it forces knockdown vs ASDI down pretty early so it's a useful tool even when a character is in CQC. Her pivot grab is similar, it throws out a hitbox that threatens the entire range it occupies and it also has grab armour, which gives it merit when an opponent is close, it's certainly more useful than your example of Ike's jab/tilts as a CQC tool.

 

[jalued]

Pretty much, hit with the butt to combo into something else, like DJ bair, nair, or the semi-spike uair (I think dair might work, too; Pika has so many combo options ). Space it a bit more and hit with the tail's tip to get your spike for gimps. However, I've often frustrated myself by going for the spike and getting the reverse-spike. It's really easy to accidentally get one instead of the other.

@Jolteon, I simply mentioned CC options because 9Kplus1 listed characters without great OoS options as a counterpoint to my argument that Ivy lacks OoS options. I simply mentioned that many of those chars who lack OoS options have weight and/or CC abilty/options to balance that trait out. Ivy, however, has neither weight, CC ability/options, nor a good OoS game. From my experience with the char, her pivot grab and bair prevent pressure from being applied to Ivy (the very concept of zoning, as it were); they do little to alleviate pressure once it has actually been applied.

what's Ivy's downB and upB OSS options like?

 

[DMG]

Part of it Bubba is that there are not only more lighter characters, but how light they are dips much further than how Heavy Bowser/etc are. I think on the weight chart, Mario is 100 and Bowser is 109 right? There are multiple characters under 90 lol. Despite Mario being 100, I think the true "average" is closer to Ness (if his weight is the same as Melee) so it's like 90 something, and Mario's above that.

 

[leelue]

Pretty sure bowser is 118

Puff and Gdub are 60

The light characters there are serious outliers though. I may be wrong but I think the next weight up is in the mid 70s.

 

[Strong Badam]

Yeah and even then, that's only because Kirby/Olimar/MK aren't released yet.

 

[cannedbread]

or p diddy. zero suit samus might be light too.