Project M Social Thread

[N.A.G.A.C.E]

Invite me over, idk when u hold fests and stuff. And western li is better then eastern li

 

[stingers]

my zeldas not that good. my zards def better lol. and my ike prolly. but I think shes got the potential best. she can set up unbreakable walls and has a totally safe retreat. and silly multihit disjoints that u cant sdi out of? and those legs of hers....man. shes just got the whole package.

 

[ELI-mination]

I get the feeling we're not talking about tier lists anymore

 

[cannedbread]

zelda's the best

 

[stingers]

nothing turns me on like multihit disjoints

 

[ELI-mination]

I wanna get me some of that Nayru's love

 

[cannedbread]

i personally find her utilt to be a very intimate move.

EDIT:

she can set up unbreakable walls

no she's just playing hard 2 get

just attack her/them with

but do it on the low

 

[Hylian]

what are you talking about?

Hylian, if you play sonic, just jab and nair until he dies. Boomarang for variance. Otherwise, you'll lose.

Haha will do. I'm not actually too worried about sonic(inb4 lose to sonic) but more-so like..a really good mario or something that I don't have any experience against.

if oyu stil zelda
no wory
u win al,l gohome an be famly man
i

famly man i all win
slti lnki

Hylian you'll do fine, Link is top tier. (Non-trolling)

Thanks .

Also going to my first PM tournament this weekend. Super excited.

As a competitive Brawl player who didn't play Melee at a high level, I'm sure I won't do super well, but hopefully I'll be able to hang with the Melee vets. One advantage I have is getting to play vs all of Hylian's Melee characters, whereas I doubt a lot of them have a ton of Snake experience

Either way, I know it's going to be a good time. Should get a lot of good experience vs a variety of players and characters.

Hype hype.

 

[leelue]

Against Mario, seriously
Just tell everyone that you practiced against Mario and that the matchup is 80/20 link. Tell them up tilt or something is amazing. Scare them out of Mario.
Because otherwise
Lights out

 

[Hylian]

Against Mario, seriously
Just tell everyone that you practiced against Mario and that the matchup is 80/20 link. Tell them up tilt or something is amazing. Scare them out of Mario.
Because otherwise
Lights out

*Opponent picks mario*
"Oh nice my roommate plays mario this match-ups awesome for link !!!!"
*Opponent switches to lucario"
"Oh nice this is my roommates secondary, man you really are just like my roommate!"
*Opponent switches to DK*
"Oh man I hope I do well haven't played many dks"

This is perfect...I can't lose!!!

 

[leelue]

Thank me later

 

[Vkrm]

Hello gentlemen, really want to ask a question and get your opinions on something. Do you guys like green hill zone. I kinda don't, and its not like its unfair or anything. As far as I know the stage is completely fair. I mean it probably favors some chars more than others in certain MU's but it's not really polarizing for players to autoban right off the break. I just feel like GHZ has like, no soul. There aren't any quirks to make it memorable to be honest. I think it'd be hella cool if the replaced it with the melee version of battle field or something. I'm not a sonic fan which might make biased to begin with. Does anyone know if the pmbr has that kind of power to just get rid GHZ and replace it with something else?

 

[DMG]

For everyone
Apparently, mario's frame data is better than docs. I don't remember on what moves, but it is a decent hunk. So I'm going to straight make unresearched claims saying that mario got oldmario's frame data, doc's damage'KB on most moves, a better dair, and these **** streamers on his tricycle.

Obv top tier

Actually I went over both of their frame data for Melee. They actually match up quite a bit frame wise, the biggest difference was that Doc would have a few more frames landing lag from aerials (and the gap made smaller with L cancelling). A lotttttt of stuff had basically the same frame data, or weird things like Doc would have an extra frame of an active hitbox for the attack.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=312343

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=309998

Assuming those two are accurate

Thank me later

NO GUSTA

 

[leelue]

Personally, I like the stage. It is certainly one of the blander stages but it's still fine enough. Only thing I can think of that'd spruce it up a bit would be to have two swinging platforms instead of 1, but I digress.

Anyway, the pmbr can do anything to the stages as they see fit.

 

[Rikana]

I don't see the pmbr getting rid of ghz. You're free to replace it though. It just won't be used for tourney standards or depends on TOs rules.

 

[hotdogturtle]

GHZ is the best stage in the game

Spoiler

for putting Sonic Adventure 2 music on. 12 ****ing slots and it's still not enough, but it's better than every other stage.

 

[foshio]

I love GHZ. it is my favorite stage (maybe bc of the music...)

 

[GHNeko]

Only thing I can think of that'd spruce it up a bit would be to have two swinging platforms instead of 1, but I digress.

I like this idea. It'll be like the old games as well.

 

[Jolteon]

ghz is awesome <3, but it is missing Jun Senoue - Just the way I like it

edit: and the Sonic 2 eggman theme lolz

 

[Juushichi]

JCaesar, what's your opinion on R.O.B., I guess tier wise? He seems like mid, mid-low in terms of strength vs the rest of the cast. So far playing, I don't really feel like he has bad stages... but some MUs I feel like I'm struggling in. Sheik seems kinda hard, Falcon is ****s, Mario is actually ok-ish. Falco is hard sometimes and really, like almost laughably easy when they're offstage. I feel like a dog at a computer when I have to play Fox. Marth is hard-ish too.

Oh, I also lost Wario/ROB for the first time (set, 2-3, last stock last hit though) to Quivo last night in friendlies. It seems so different vs a Wario who actually knows how to weave in and out properly and doesn't run into nair all day. It seems like ROB is one of the MU's (I would imagine Bowser as well) where using Bite is actually pretty viable. I handled his TL pretty well, but Q isn't used to him yet.

 

[DMG]

Rob vs Falcon isn't too bad, he's got Bowser syndrome however and by that I mean if you get grabbed or launched you are consistently going to eat it. Even in situations where Rob might be able to jump out, trying to land or use a quick aerial to stop the juggle is really hard. He cannot easily and quickly cover diagonal attacks from below unless the person is behind him and he's able to Nair. He also cannot quickly just throw out a Dair or move from directly below to stop it.

Rob WITHOUT getting launched looks kinda decent. Get him airborne and his answers to pressure are just too slow or awkwardly placed most of the time.

 

[Juushichi]

Yeah, basically. That was the largest thing I was running into vs Falco outside of those high lasers on shield, haha. It was like I was playing GnW... but worse somehow when I got caught by shine. It literally seemed like an autocombo at that point for like 80%. The unfortunate thing about trying to use a quick aerial to stop the juggle is that your fastest one is fair and you're usually not in a position to try to counter poke with it.

ROB when he's not getting comboed is pretty fun, I will admit. He's definitely tiding me over until Samus is into my hands for this game. I still am having a tough time with him in a few spots, namely approaches from 1 to 3 o'clock and about 9 to 11 o'clock [and actually comboing from those angles where utilt will whiff, ftilt won't hit and you have to struggle to get uair out there], which I think are his weaknesses when you do try to get in on him. It's not like samus who has a high angle utilt/ftilt(?) and Up-B OOS or peach with her options, so sometimes I feel like I'm really free when I'm forced to sheild.

That was the biggest problem I found with Wario when I played Quivo in our casual sets throughout Wednesday night. His weave game (haha) was pretty top notch, especially later in the set (and with my gyro, sheesh) and it was hard to hit him. He'd weave away from sh nair/fair, fh fair, away from tilts and cover that spot directly above or behind me where ROB has that trouble I mentioned before. Then from there it was his grab, command grab and some well-placed aerials that uprooted me. It's a fun MU, though I had to reevaluate it. Probably 55-45 ROB or slightly better.

 

[GHNeko]

Inb4reflexwondersays100:0MUforRob

 

[Juushichi]

He plays and beats Player-1 who is a ROB player down in AL, so I doubt it. :x

 

[bubbaking]

Stingers, since week 1 eli and I have called mario the best and zard the worst. Going to ride this train til it crashes

It's crashed already! Zard definitely isn't the worst character.

zards not the worst tho. so y'all are dumb there.

my train:
zelda best
ness worst
gg

Yours has crashed too.

So far people have started to realize MY prophecies. Lucario for Top Tier, Ike and Pit for High Tier, Lucas for Mid/High Tier; now we just need people to realize that Ness is Mid Tier.

 

[leelue]

Ness is def bottom 5 bub. Because melee

 

[bubbaking]

That's horrible logic.....and you know it!

I find it hard to believe Ness is the worst when his recovery can sweetspot the ledge and he has a competent on-stage game.

>Because being able to sweetspot the ledge makes him not the worst. So what makes any character the worst then? I'm pretty sure G&W and Wario can sweetspot the ledge from the correct distance.

The people who play melee in NY only play it for money for the most part. With the exception of a few. Everyone else is either retired or lives in eastern LI.

So true...

Hello gentlemen, really want to ask a question and get your opinions on something. Do you guys like green hill zone. I kinda don't, and its not like its unfair or anything. As far as I know the stage is completely fair. I mean it probably favors some chars more than others in certain MU's but it's not really polarizing for players to autoban right off the break. I just feel like GHZ has like, no soul. There aren't any quirks to make it memorable to be honest. I think it'd be hella cool if the replaced it with the melee version of battle field or something. I'm not a sonic fan which might make biased to begin with. Does anyone know if the pmbr has that kind of power to just get rid GHZ and replace it with something else?

I don't really like that platform much. I mean, I don't dislike it, but it's not really like many chars can base their gameplan around it too much outside of Zard taking a quick peek at it during a grab to see if he can use it for his uthrow. It's just too high off the ground. More plats would be nice, even if they're all moving. Along those lines, I actually think the stage is too plain. I mean, it's definitely better than Brawl's GHZ, but.......I like quirky stages. I was totally against the removal of Brinstar, RC, and KJ64 from the standard Melee Ruleset and I would like more wacky stages like that in my P:M. Y'know, stages like........Pictochat.

 

[bubbaking]

Accidental double post...

 

[JCaesar]

Yeah, basically. That was the largest thing I was running into vs Falco outside of those high lasers on shield, haha. It was like I was playing GnW... but worse somehow when I got caught by shine. It literally seemed like an autocombo at that point for like 80%. The unfortunate thing about trying to use a quick aerial to stop the juggle is that your fastest one is fair and you're usually not in a position to try to counter poke with it.

ROB when he's not getting comboed is pretty fun, I will admit. He's definitely tiding me over until Samus is into my hands for this game. I still am having a tough time with him in a few spots, namely approaches from 1 to 3 o'clock and about 9 to 11 o'clock [and actually comboing from those angles where utilt will whiff, ftilt won't hit and you have to struggle to get uair out there], which I think are his weaknesses when you do try to get in on him. It's not like samus who has a high angle utilt/ftilt(?) and Up-B OOS or peach with her options, so sometimes I feel like I'm really free when I'm forced to sheild.

That was the biggest problem I found with Wario when I played Quivo in our casual sets throughout Wednesday night. His weave game (haha) was pretty top notch, especially later in the set (and with my gyro, sheesh) and it was hard to hit him. He'd weave away from sh nair/fair, fh fair, away from tilts and cover that spot directly above or behind me where ROB has that trouble I mentioned before. Then from there it was his grab, command grab and some well-placed aerials that uprooted me. It's a fun MU, though I had to reevaluate it. Probably 55-45 ROB or slightly better.

Yes, ROB struggles with pressure. That was an intentional design choice. His OOS options are mediocre (though he does have a good shield grab) and he has no good aerial combo breakers. He has a good "active" defense though. Tilts, gyro, dsmash, and retreating aerials (most of which linger and have fairly high priority) can all make him difficult to approach.

I think Falcon is one of his harder matchups for sure. Despite all the dirty things ROB can do to him (aside from easy gimps, Falcon is possibly the only character that ROB can dthrow CG, at least in my experience), ROB is such easy combo bait for Falcon it's not even funny.

Wario I feel like ROB should beat, but I don't have much experience in the matchup. I MMed Apple's Wario and won but it was fairly close, and that's the only tournament level Wario I've ever played.

 

[bubbaking]

JCaesar, what's your opinion on R.O.B., I guess tier wise? He seems like mid, mid-low in terms of strength vs the rest of the cast. So far playing, I don't really feel like he has bad stages... but some MUs I feel like I'm struggling in. Sheik seems kinda hard, Falcon is ****s, Mario is actually ok-ish. Falco is hard sometimes and really, like almost laughably easy when they're offstage. I feel like a dog at a computer when I have to play Fox. Marth is hard-ish too.

Oh, I also lost Wario/ROB for the first time (set, 2-3, last stock last hit though) to Quivo last night in friendlies. It seems so different vs a Wario who actually knows how to weave in and out properly and doesn't run into nair all day. It seems like ROB is one of the MU's (I would imagine Bowser as well) where using Bite is actually pretty viable. I handled his TL pretty well, but Q isn't used to him yet.

I also have a hard time with ROB against Wolf.......and Link.

Yes, ROB struggles with pressure. That was an intentional design choice. His OOS options are mediocre (though he does have a good shield grab) and he has no good aerial combo breakers. He has a good "active" defense though. Tilts, gyro, dsmash, and retreating aerials (most of which linger and have fairly high priority) can all make him difficult to approach.

So he was designed to be like Samus (maybe Peach), just...worse? I mean, both have good tilts, dsmash, and defensively used aerials for a good "active defense." Both even lose pretty hard to Falcon. However, Samus actually has OoS options and combo breakers. Like, I'm in the same exact situation as Juushichi. I'm using ROB now as a Samus replacement, but once Samoose actually gets in, I'll have no real reason to use ROB.

Edit: Samus is also a lot harder to combo and she's heavier. The only difference I see between the two chars is that Samus is a little better on the ground, defensively, while ROB is better defensively in the air.

 

[bubbaking]

ugh, I'm reallly sorry for these double posts guys. Way too used to smashmods.....

 

[Juushichi]

I think I'll use Samus and ROB both when she comes out. I feel like they're still different enough apart that I'll want to use both.

As for my Wario exp, I mentioned that I should have some vids soon... but vs Apples' Wario was one of the friendly sets that WGS should have up. I remember beating him 2-0 (we played another game and I lost that one) but I was down 1-2 vs Quivo before losing that friendly set 2-3. My vids should have vs (WGS) Lucas/Pika, (Apples) Wario, (WGS) Marth (urgh), (BlueBomber) Ness maybe Falco/Dorf (depends if the NT Sak vids got recorded or not).

Also played a friendly set with 4%'s Peach, but lost pretty solidly 0-2. That wasn't recorded and 4% was pushing my poo all of last Friday's smashfest, haha.

 

[bubbaking]

Totally unrelated, but I just visited the P:M Downloads site and I saw something strange:

"Demo v2.1 Total Downloads: 24,244!
Demo v2.0 Total Downloads: 42,442!"

When you see what I saw, you'll **** bricks! :roflmao:

 

[GHNeko]

oh that's cute.

 

[DMG]

Inb4reflexwondersays100:0MUforRob

He's not THAT pessimistic about Wario lol. I do agree with most of what he says, coming from someone else who played Wario in Brawl. Rob probably wins that MU, if only because approaching a grounded Rob with Wario is very difficult.

Pit high tier I don't see it.

 

[ELI-mination]

Pit is ok, he's not that amazing.
The fight is not on and he's not ready yet, I can defeat him.

 

[GHNeko]

He'll receive no monkey business from eli.

 

[victra♥]

Yeah I've been hearing about how amazing Mario is in P:M.

What kind of changes were made that makes everyone think that?

 

[TheReflexWonder]

I think the Wario-R.O.B. matchup could go either way. I might even be inclined to say that Wario wins the matchup (though probably not by much). His weaving stuff works better against R.O.B. than most characters, and R.O.B.'s huge body makes him very susceptible to things like Bite and juggling that most characters don't really have to worry about. This is a matchup where Wario's pressure can legitimately be dangerous to the opponent even if he "walks away from it." Also, Wario's really good at screwing with R.O.B. offstage.

As an aside, I think R.O.B. is a mediocre character in general.

 

[Rikana]

Yeah I've been hearing about how amazing Mario is in P:M.

What kind of changes were made that makes everyone think that?

Cape is much more annoying in P:M; reverses even in sheild.
Doc pill gravity, Doc + Mario fAir, Doc uSmash on grounded foes, etc etc. Best of both worlds.