Project M Social Thread

[Deleted member]

We've got like four people thinking he sucks, a bunch of people thinking he's overpowered, and no hard data proving anything either way.

Are you wanting us to blindly develop the game to your whims or something?

i made no suggestions to you.

i would at least like some challenge, someone to prove me wrong, something.

"ike is too good"
"but he's really exploitable for reasons XYZ"
"but ike is really really good"

yeah

 

[DMG]

Some of Ike is really good, some of Ike is really bad. His range and power do not add up lol. But he's bad at dealing with pressure and getting back down to the ground safely. He's not OP, in that you can find MU's vs him that he definitely loses.

It's hard to tell for sure though, because I haven't seen a lot of strong players in P:M abuse his weaknesses, and on the other side I haven't seen top Brawl Ikes or people who are extremely experienced with the character fool around and show some stuff. For all we know, San or Mr. Doom or xyz Ike main could show us some really broken stuff or play him more efficiently (Fair on shield, we find out gives Ike a nice frame advantage, so they frame trap you with grab or something), and for all we know there will come a day where some Fox main makes the MU look unwinnable for Ike because Shine is so damn gay or because he has no answer to Nair or because Shine is so gay (definitely gonna be Shine).

What seems obvious though is that Ike is better than he was in Brawl, but he has different threats to worry about and it will be interesting to see if he can cover them or if he's just not fast enough or safe enough to handle the approaching and juggling pressure that's sure to build as people get used to P:M.

 

[cannedbread]

ike is a noobstomper. i'm pretty confident that people will find a bunch of strategies to counter him and his big golden d*** and he won't be nearly as good as he is now later

 

[`dazrin]

No one wants to argue with Umbreon because he'll summon Exodia to write an essay (Essodia) and it will obliterate all arguments that challenge it. Theorysmassshh.

 

[Shadic]

i made no suggestions to you.

i would at least like some challenge, someone to prove me wrong, something.

"ike is too good"
"but he's really exploitable for reasons XYZ"
"but ike is really really good"

yeah

You're the one making the claim that he's bad. There's no evidence of that at this point in time.

Theorysmash is great and all, but we're looking for numbers/actual evidence at this point in time.

 

[Mr.Pickle]

Yeah how about we save the theories on characters until after the biggest project m tournament yet.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

It's worth noting that some characters can hit him out of his Up-B pretty easily, which really screws his recovery over.

 

[DMG]

Anytime Ike uses Upb, it's the biggest target in the world on his back, waiting for him to get spiked. Can even shine him out of it with some ok timing even if he tries to sweet spot.

 

[skrach8]

release squirtle!!!

 

[DMG]

You DON'T want Brawl Squirtle in Melee, with fatigue also gone...

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Don't worry--I have some good ideas for fixing him (Squirtle). Hopefully they're taken seriously.

 

[DMG]

I bet in exchange, he's gonna have an awesome Nair that can't be beat for only reasons you understand Reflex.

 

[Nintendude]

I can't "prove" that Ike is good without beating great players in tournaments (which there aren't many opportunities to do) but I do believe that Ike's weaknesses don't hold him back much more, if any, than Falcon's and Marth's do. His mix-up game on the ground is superb which allows him to get those crucial first hits that he needs to do the necessary damage. His edgeguarding is also amazing which amplifies the benefits of his raw power. He's a solid character.

 

[Metà]

No one wants to argue with Umbreon because he'll summon Exodia to write an essay (Essodia) and it will obliterate all arguments that challenge it. Theorysmassshh.

if only there were tournaments where people just argue about who would win in their match, and not even have to hold a controller. then maybe he could actually shake a stick at some of the people he talks **** to

 

[Shadic]

Yeah, I wanna see videos of him destroying some well-played Ikes, taking advantage of all of his weaknesses and showing how bad of a character he is.

The Ike Falco match is interesting because Ike can kill Falco at 0%, but lasers mess with Ike pretty badly, imo.

 

[ph00tbag]

it will be interesting to see if he can cover them or if he's just not fast enough or safe enough to handle the approaching and juggling pressure that's sure to build as people get used to P:M.

I have a feeling safety is where Ike is going to suffer more than speed. Ike can be very fast if he makes sure to stay grounded, but for him to have that speed, he needs to use his less safe options.

I don't know. I don't really have an opinion on Ike, other than that I think he's occupied the spot Zelda had in the pre-demo2 days when everyone watched videos of Ryoko and proclaimed she was broken, meanwhile others were just astonished she was winning at all.

 

[Nintendude]

It seems like Ike vs Falco is similar to DK vs Falco in that lasers completely shut him down, but once he gets something going Falco is screwed

 

[ph00tbag]

It seems like Ike vs Falco is similar to DK vs Falco in that lasers completely shut him down, but once he gets something going Falco is screwed

That's actually the majority of Falco's match-ups.

 

[DrinkingFood]

On top of a projectile Ike can't deal with, Falco's also got insane shield pressure which Ike can't deal with, an insane combo game Ike cant deal with, and approaches aided by the laser that Ike doesn't seem able to deal with. Now I'm forgetting why Ike is a good character.

 

[Rubyiris]

Alternatively the falco player could pick fox and enjoy a 100/0 match up

Sent from my LG-VM670 using Tapatalk 2

 

[Nintendude]

That's actually the majority of Falco's match-ups.

That's why Falco wrecks low tiers, but many high tiers can deal with lasers because they have great mobility or projectiles that can interrupt him.

 

[Mr.Pickle]

Alternatively the falco player could pick fox and enjoy a 100/0 match up

Sent from my LG-VM670 using Tapatalk 2

You must play some really bad people if you think that.

 

[Rubyiris]

There are some low tiers with gimmicks that deal with falco well.

Pikachu has his tail, for example

Sent from my LG-VM670 using Tapatalk 2

 

[DrinkingFood]

There are some low tiers with gimmicks that deal with falco well.

Pikachu has his tail, for example

Sent from my LG-VM670 using Tapatalk 2

There are some low gimmicks with gimmicks that deal with gimmicks well.

Pikachu has his gimmick, for example

Sent from my LG-Gimmick using Gimmicktalk 2.

 

[trash?]

This gimmick sent from my Macbook Pro™.

 

[DMG]

This Gimmick brought to you by Rube Goldberg Machines



"Making bad options look cool since the 80's!"

 

[iLink]

Got my Bo5 set uploaded

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D7f34ZTU0Xg

Tried using a different character each match

(Me)Charizard vs (Deez)Luigi - 2:04
(Me)Link vs (Deez)Luigi - 6:32
(Me)Lucas vs (Deez)Luigi - 10:46
(Me)Lucario vs (Deez)Mario - 14:22
(Me)Wolf vs (Deez)Mario - 19:12


Next set I do I'll try sonic, wario, pit, gaw and toonlink I think.

 

[JediKnightTemplar]

You seriously haven't been RAR Bair'd in the face, have you?

If only I lived someplace near you, I'd be glad to show you how P:M Ness should be played.

Do you have a stable wifi connection? I'd be happy to play you as this post intrigues me.

 

[Rubyiris]

Pm ness: camp pm fire and rising aerials. Grab release > dair

Sent from my LG-VM670 using Tapatalk 2

 

[FRENUM]

So has the dev team made any new discoveries or significant breakthroughs towards the final product?

 

[foshio]

Frenum you should apply to be a playtester... honestly you have the creativity to push and test the limits of this game above anyone else I've seen, you could make some awesome characters imo. That is if you apply and they accept you of course

 

[GimR]

http://www.twitch.tv/vgbootcamp Smash @ Xanadu - Project M

 

[KingBlaze777]

Do you have a stable wifi connection? I'd be happy to play you as this post intrigues me.

I don't :/ Plus I have never played the wifi version of P:M, but I plan to fix my wifi problems in the near future and when I do, you'll be one of the first to know

 

[Rubyiris]

Me or Prof oksas should be playtesters.

Sent from my LG-VM670 using Tapatalk 2

 

[GP&B]

What I'm getting from Ruby is that Ike needs a tail.

Obviously.

 

[Sanity's_Theif]

I thought it might be his double jump animation but I confirmed that it's not that.

Nope, and the fact that no one notices it makes me think it's an even better idea to implement.

I changed his size to match his Twilight Princess size, it's a small change, he has slightly more range but bigger hitboxes too IIRC, but it's something I think is important to Ganondorf

In Project M he's too small, Link is only a head smaller, but Ganondorf is supposed to tower over Link, in TP, Link didn't even reach his chest in height:

I think it helps differentiate him from Falcon just a tad too

 

[kaizo13]

is there any footage of a good ike getting destroyed?

 

[Kink-Link5]

I don't think there is much footage of good Ikes in the first place. The demo has been out for 4 months and almost every match is filled with technical errors and experimental decision making.

 

[Mr.Pickle]

Nope, and the fact that no one notices it makes me think it's an even better idea to implement.

I changed his size to match his Twilight Princess size, it's a small change, he has slightly more range but bigger hitboxes too IIRC, but it's something I think is important to Ganondorf

In Project M he's too small, Link is only a head smaller, but Ganondorf is supposed to tower over Link, in TP, Link didn't even reach his chest in height:

I think it helps differentiate him from Falcon just a tad too

It also makes him a bigger target, thus easier to combo, which is one of the major weaknesses that he suffers from. His range and the size of his hitboxes are fine, there is no need for that change.

 

[JediKnightTemplar]

I don't think the change is necessary. Not changing the size of his hitboxes or his range just makes the game look weird when attacks that should work given his size whiff instead. If his hitboxes and range did match his new size then Ganondorf would just be godly in the right hands. In addition I think that making him a bigger target is unnecessary. It seems to be a nerf rather than a buff to me and I don't think that Ganondorf has shown any reason outside of theorysmash to be nerfed.