Project M Social Thread

[leelue]

Anybody else heard about CISPA? I love it when lawmakers become the puppets of corporations.

It is an inevitability when corporations are allowed to finance politics. Money = sway, unless the masses do something about it.
Oh, funny thought though. When the masses to try to do something, you get Occupy Beat Street I mean police abuse avenue I mean Occupy Wall Street. I always mess that up.

 

[Jonny Westside]

Have you guys ever thought of restoring Fox's original Fair move from Smash 64? It was pretty useful imo more so than "flutter hush" lol

 

[Strong Badam]

Yes, Fox needs to be better than best in the game.

 

[I R MarF]

Have you guys ever thought of restoring Fox's original Fair move from Smash 64? It was pretty useful imo more so than "flutter hush" lol

Fox already has more options than 90% of the cast even with the useless fair. Not sure he needs it :/

 

[ValTroX]

Fox already has more options than 90% of the cast even with the useless fair. Not sure he needs it :/

Then, I'll make you be sure, he doesn't need it.

 

[trojanpooh]

Yes, Fox needs to be better than best in the game.

As long as your at it I think Sheik could be a lot better if you gave her fair a little more knockback

 

[Kink-Link5]

Falco's B-throw could always use some chain grab attributes, it wouldn't hurt.

 

[Jonny Westside]

loooooool ok I see your point. Just thought I'd atleast throw that out there. Been playing lot of Smash 64 lately so yeah.

Since the open beta(I'm just gonna call it that cause' demo 2 sounds freaking ********) is coming out in 4 days, I was wondering what you guys are focusing on in preparation.

 

[Kink-Link5]

They are focusing on how long to delay the demo to add in Wario's Muscles and fix bugs.

 

[Stevo]

Since the open beta(I'm just gonna call it that cause' demo 2 sounds freaking ********) is coming out in 4 days, I was wondering what you guys are focusing on in preparation.

Just call it Project M demo patch

 

[RaphaelRobo]

What have you guys done with Ganon's neutral B and Utilt? It seems kind of useless, in my opinion, for him to have two of the same move. Unless you're trying to pull off some fancy combo, they're only ever going to be used when puff misses a rest.

 

[Vigilante]

I don't trust Saurai for Smash 4. A producer can make some great games and some terrible games. Smash is just one he's dead set on dumbing down.

Also, when Demo 2 come sout, repeatedly do up taunt with Lucario.

 

[GP&B]

If I knew exactly how to find the video, I'd show you the video with Ganondorf doing a Dair on Fox, edge canceling it, and immediately starting up a Warlock Punch and landing it. It was on Yoshi's Story.

Saurai for best producer ever. That lousy Sakurai wishes he was as good.

 

[Jonny Westside]

I don't trust Saurai for Smash 4. A producer can make some great games and some terrible games. Smash is just one he's dead set on dumbing down.

Also, when Demo 2 come sout, repeatedly do up taunt with Lucario.

I totally saw this coming o_________O

 

[GP&B]

So I found this video that demonstrates perfectly why post-tech KB momentum needs to get fixed some day.

 

[♡ⓛⓞⓥⓔ♡]

I have concern/question related the reverse up-b ledge grabbing. Is this universal, and is it to be fixed? Because it makes Marios cape in edge guarding totally useless, among various other aspects of the game.

E:

So I heard you like ledgecanceling...no **** this, I didn't. Goddammit I'm using these ****ing memes. ****.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQ3kLxhNReQ

 

[JediKnightTemplar]

It is an inevitability when corporations are allowed to finance politics. Money = sway, unless the masses do something about it.
Oh, funny thought though. When the masses to try to do something, you get Occupy Beat Street I mean police abuse avenue I mean Occupy Wall Street. I always mess that up.

Occupy Beat Street

Beat

I couldn't resist.

 

[GP&B]

I have concern/question related the reverse up-b ledge grabbing. Is this universal, and is it to be fixed? Because it makes Marios cape in edge guarding totally useless, among various other aspects of the game.

Tell me how Mario edgeguarded against characters who could already reverse grab the ledge with their Up B's in Melee and that answers your question; he couldn't use Cape in the first place on characters that already could and it's also been discussed numerous times why universal reverse ledgegrabbing was put in. Also, you say this as if Bair isn't a ridiculously good option to chose if a character is trying to reverse ledgegrab.

 

[♡ⓛⓞⓥⓔ♡]

Tell me how Mario edgeguarded against characters who could already reverse grab the ledge with their Up B's in Melee and that answers your question.

They can't reverse grab in up-b free fall in Melee, that's why I asked. Also I believe it's only at the beginning and end of their up-b's.

But I will improve my argument: if possible, reverse-up-bs should be exactly as in melee, because otherwise it's dumb. Especially for Wolf, I hate when that **** happens.

 

[batistabus]

Do we know anything about Squirtle's Down-B? I've seen water...leak out of him during arials. Is it that? Or does he not even have one yet? It might be cool for him to have a freeze move...and I'd like to see Bubblebeam.

 

[JCaesar]

They can't reverse grab in up-b free fall in Melee, that's why I asked. Also I believe it's only at the beginning and end of their up-b's.

But I will improve my argument: if possible, reverse-up-bs should be exactly as in melee, because otherwise it's dumb. Especially for Wolf, I hate when that **** happens.

What exactly are you trying to say? You're mad that Wolf can reverse-grab out of his up-B, even though Fox and Falco could in Melee?

 

[jalued]

They can't reverse grab in up-b free fall in Melee, that's why I asked. Also I believe it's only at the beginning and end of their up-b's.

But I will improve my argument: if possible, reverse-up-bs should be exactly as in melee, because otherwise it's dumb. Especially for Wolf, I hate when that **** happens.

There are still alot of things to be fixed with the game, I'm sure they will get around to it eventually. Just be glad the demo 2 is coming soon, it wont be perfect but it should be almost perfect

 

[Kink-Link5]

What exactly are you trying to say? You're mad that Wolf can reverse-grab out of his up-B, even though Fox and Falco could in Melee?

Fox couldn't fall 30 feet and grab the ledge backwards though.

 

[kaizo13]

grabbing the ledge backwards during special fall is ****en ********.....

i understand the pmbr might currently not have a way around it but i sure hope it happens eventually. can't see the melee fan base being too fond of it.

 

[Brian_Link]

What I was actually thinking of for Squirtle's Down-B is Mirror Coat. I'm kind of envisioning it like a Shine. Before you go and say I'm going with the "Give every character a Shine philosophy", I'm not. Have it reflect projectiles, maybe clink with other attacks, come out frame 1. But make its hitbox the same relative size as rest, and have it do flinchless damage. I view down-B moves as primarily defensive moves, and I think this is a defensive move that doesn't have the room for abuse as Shine does.

 

[JCaesar]

Fox couldn't fall 30 feet and grab the ledge backwards though.

I guess I just don't understand the Wolf reference then. How exactly is he different than anyone else?

 

[jalued]

I guess I just don't understand the Wolf reference then. How exactly is he different than anyone else?

i think he just means any character, but saw wolf being able to do it onstream or something. I'm sure the backroom plans to fix it when possible

 

[GP&B]

You should have specified that you were talking about reverse ledgegrabbing within a certain amount of frames in freefall.

 

[leelue]

But I will improve my argument: if possible, reverse-up-bs should be exactly as in melee, because otherwise it's dumb. Especially for Wolf, I hate when that **** happens.

You don't seem to understand that mario's cape pushes characters pretty far, even when there is no momentum to reverse. This was the compromise made long ago.

"Should" is a strong word, as it implies that it's better than doing it the other way. Please provide real examples, because I'm sure many characters and strategies would be opposed to your line of thinking. I am neither a character nor a strategy, but I am still opposed.

For example:
*I play Sonic. Currently, if I want to up B, walljump, Fair, and airdodge to the ledge, I can do that. I could not if your idea was implemented. In fact, all of the "act after up B" characters lose some edgeguarding flashiness and effectiveness with reverse ledge grabbing being gone.
*In teams, the way it is now, I can edgeguard someone and if their teammate comes from behind me to take advantage of my situation, I have one extra option to weigh and they have one extra route to cover. This is depth.
*I've seen many foxes and falcos get hit under battlefield but make miraculous and memorable recoveries because of the ability to grab the ledge when facing the wrong way. The same could be said for sheik. Or lucas. Or any other character. You can argue that giving a universal benefit to recoveries and adding an extra option to characters across the board is a bad thing, however you should have those arguments well backed up.

Kaizo, I don't know about you, but literally every player I've shown PM to prefers the ledge grabbing in PM over its predecessors. Once I had a dissenter but he came around after playing a few rounds.

 

[jalued]

You don't seem to understand that mario's cape pushes characters pretty far, even when there is no momentum to reverse. This was the compromise.

"Should" is a strong word, as it implies that it's better than doing it the other way. Please provide real examples, because I'm sure many characters and strategies would be opposed to your line of thinking.

For example, I play Sonic. Currently, if I want to up B, walljump, Fair, and airdodge to the ledge, I can do that. I could not if your idea was implemented. In fact, all of the "act after up B" characters lose some edgeguarding flashiness and effectiveness with reverse ledge grabbing being gone.

In teams, the way it is now, I can edgeguard someone and if their teammate comes from behind me to take advantage of my situation, I have one extra option to weigh and they have one extra route to cover. This is called depth.

I've seen many foxes and falcos get hit under battlefield but make miraculous and memorable recoveries because of the ability to grab the ledge when facing the wrong way. The same could be said for sheik. Or lucas. Or any other character. You can argue that giving a universal benefit to recoveries and adding an extra option to characters across the board is a bad thing, however you should have those arguments well backed up.

Not all characters in melee could reverse grab from their upB. Shiek and marth are both examples of this. I agree that fox/falco didnt need that extra benefit, and i don't think its much of a problem if all characters can grab from their reverse.

However, reverse grabbing from freefall is unnecessarry and dumbs down the edgeguarding and recovery dynamic. Anyhow, I'm sure it'll be fixed eventually

 

[leelue]

It dumbs it down by adding options for the character offstage?
I think my post did a good job of showing how it makes it more deep.

 

[JOE!]

Do we know anything about Squirtle's Down-B? I've seen water...leak out of him during arials. Is it that? Or does he not even have one yet? It might be cool for him to have a freeze move...and I'd like to see Bubblebeam.

Last I saw it was a freezing/ice move, and the aerial you're thinking of is his Nair.

 

[Kaye Cruiser]

So I found this video that demonstrates perfectly why post-tech KB momentum needs to get fixed some day.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KGcB6VMmOus

My god, where has this man been all my life? xD

 

[jalued]

It dumbs it down by adding options for the character offstage?
I think my post did a good job of showing how it makes it more deep.

I don't agree. It removes any risk of using recovery moves near the edge, and wolf is a prime example of this. His sideB is meant to be a high risk, high reward type move. That's great if you manage to hit it, but if you miss, reverse grabbing from freefall removes a part of the risk of the move.

There are other examples, like sonic's upB -> walljump. Being able to walljump at the top of the move is a great bonus, that is pretty character specific. If he manages to walljump, AD and land on stage safetly then that's fine. But I don't think he should be allowed the added bonus of reverse grabbing. It just makes games last longer, and removes some of the match pace.

There are many more examples, but basically I feel anything offstage should have a large element of risk surrounding it, to keep everything interesting and tense. Reverse grabbing dulls the tension and imo damages the gameplay of project M

 

[kaizo13]

why should characters be able to AD backwards and grab the ledge? that makes it far too safe and easy for some characters. Like Jauled's Sonic example.

going off stage should remain risky

 

[GP&B]

I'm just getting confused by this now so I'm going to directly ask the thread for any PMBR response: what's the current stance regarding reverse ledgegrabbing? I'm aware and content with the fact that all character recoveries can sweetspot reverse ledgegrab; this is a fine universal change because the exclusivity made no sense at all in Melee. The main question though is in regards to reverse during free/special fall after a certain number of frames: was that intended to be fixed sometime down the line or is it staying?

 

[Revven]

why should characters be able to AD backwards and grab the ledge? that makes it far too safe and easy for some characters. Like Jauled's Sonic example.

going off stage should remain risky

Most air dodges currently last too long to be able to grab the ledge from the same general height backwards.

Above the ledge, sure you could possibly do the above (but then why would you if you have a Side B recovery or a good Up B?)

At the same height as the ledge it's not really doable.

Below the ledge... yeah I don't think I need to explain why air dodging backwards from below the ledge won't work LOL.

This is all my experience of course, I don't know frame data and etc.

Oh and I'm not talking about Sonic in this post.

 

[drsusredfish]

people keep saying "....when they can fix backwards ledge grab"
Aside from the backwards ledge grab range backwards grabing is on purpose, not somthing that needs to be "fixed" like a glitch.

 

[batistabus]

Why doesn't Lucas say PK Freeze? Is the clip just too long? If it were somehow possible to take the "PK" from "PK Fire" and add it to the "Freeze" from "PK Freeze", it'd cut down on the time a little bit...

 

[Ecks]

The clip doesn't fit. It's too long (PK Freeeze) and hearing it in succession is annoying.

And yeah, backwards ledge grab isn't going anywhere. It does more good than bad if you ask me.