Project M Social Thread

[PEEF!]

Fox has an amazing recovery.

 

[I R MarF]

Fox has an amazing recovery.

Yes he does distance wise. its just predictable.

Btw, if "amazing" is the word you would use to describe Fox's recovery, what about characters who are actually difficult to edge guard like Pikachu?

 

[Shadic]

There's several aspects of recovery, including:

• Overall distance
• Gimpability
• Predictability
• Flexibility

Fox has a fairly flexible, long-distance recovery that is very gimpable and (can sometimes be) hard to predict depending on position/stage.

With that said, remember that this topic shouldn't be overly hostile, so please play nice, children.

 

[PEEF!]

Fox's recovery is not predictable, and he is one of the most successful characters on getting back onstage at high levels. Fox's recovery is so different between high level and low level play. Fox can start upb above the ledge and go straght to the ledge, go high to a plat, go straight up, or go straight at your face. If you guess wrong he makes it back. He can also sideb plat cancel, sideb to ledge, or sideb straight at your head. If you guess wrong he makes it back. Alot of people try to act like it is easy to edgeguard, but it really is not if the fox is doing it right (See: Kels). It is very difficult for most characters to cover more than one option at once. People think its easy to edgeguard because bad foxes just drop low and try to upb sweetspot, which is rarely the best method of recovery.

 

[9Kplus1]

Because I don't want to continue this (and because I can't have a drink tonight...), I'll just address the last notable paragraph of your post:

It seems to me that you believe variables are a valid argument for deciding match length. That is true, but you must also realize that this doesn't disprove physics and recovery as being important to determining match length. The sheer fact remains that there are constants that state certain characters can be KO'd easier than others and these characters will have shorter match times.

There are multiple reasons behind why a match can last extremely long, and recovery isn't one of the more significant ones. I believe that I and others have explained why already. If you choose not to accept that, then tough ****ing **** for you -- it's not as if the project will die if people are under different impressions.

Good day, and take a break from being so mean, will ya?

I have very low tolerance for people who try to be right when they're wrong about something proven several times already... I'm sorry? It could've been worse considering my condition earlier today -- and even if I was "being so mean", what's stopping you from, you know, ignoring that?

Recovery does impact match length. And whether you like it or not, playstyles and player skill are unfair arguments against recoveries having that impact when said argument is a variable. How to you explain characters with floatier physics and recoveries have longer match times than those who dont?

The effectiveness of a recovery is an unfair argument for proving that recoveries have a significant impact on match length because every character has a different recovery option that can be edgeguarded; recoveries are inconsistent amongst the cast and thus a not fair when used as a standpoint, especially when physics are brought into play. Arguments like these can go on for a while if one party chooses to make it so. Until you bring solid proof to the table, there's no fathomable reason behind why anyone should support your argument.

meh don't need to say anything else.

 

[I R MarF]

Fox's recovery is not predictable, and he is one of the most successful characters on getting back onstage at high levels. Fox's recovery is so different between high level and low level play. Fox can start upb above the ledge and go straght to the ledge, go high to a plat, go straight up, or go straight at your face. If you guess wrong he makes it back. He can also sideb plat cancel, sideb to ledge, or sideb straight at your head. If you guess wrong he makes it back. Alot of people try to act like it is easy to edgeguard, but it really is not if the fox is doing it right (See: Kels). It is very difficult for most characters to cover more than one option at once. People think its easy to edgeguard because bad foxes just drop low and try to upb sweetspot, which is rarely the best method of recovery.

If a fox started recovering above the ledge, couldn't you just jump at him and attack? Once you are close enough to him, the distance he moves is negligible and any angle he chose wouldn't get past you. And if he was too far away, then you'd have more time to react to whichever angle he does end up choosing.

Because I don't want to continue this (and because I can't have a drink tonight...), I'll just address the last notable paragraph of your post:

There are multiple reasons behind why a match can last extremely long, and recovery isn't one of the more significant ones. I believe that I and others have explained why already. If you choose not to accept that, then tough ****ing **** for you -- it's not as if the project will die if people are under different impressions.

Recovery does impact match length. And whether you like it or not, playstyles and player skill are unfair arguments against recoveries having that impact when said argument is a variable. How to you explain characters with floatier physics and recoveries have longer match times than those who dont?

I have very low tolerance to people who try to be right when they're wrong about something proven several times already... I'm sorry? It could've been worse considering my condition earlier today -- and even if I was "being so mean", what's stopping you from, you know, ignoring that?

Uh, maybe you should just try and express some kind of maturity? Whats stopping you from that? And I can't believe how arrogant you are. In what way have you "proven me wrong several times"? By using an argument that is incredibly player relative and has nothing to do with predetermined character constants such as physics and recovery options?

But in retrospect, I agree. we should stop. Lets just agree to disagree

 

[Pachinkosam]

well i guess not

 

[PEEF!]

If a fox started recovering above the ledge, couldn't you just jump at him and attack? Once you are close enough to him, the distance he moves is negligible and any angle he chose wouldn't get past you. And if he was too far away, then you'd have more time to react to whichever angle he does end up choosing.

You are not usually in the position to just go hit him, but some characters can. There is no simple solution to Fox's recovery and thats why its so good.

 

[Deleted member]

fox/falco have pretty crappy recoveries. it's like a running joke that a throw off stage is a OHKO.

i guess those chars could stand to suck though.

 

[Kink-Link5]

Yo, stop with the ****ing bull**** arguments please. Why are you arguing the cause of long matches. Not everyone has Jiggs or Peach recoveries anyway. I don't see the validity of any of these arguments, just headache inducing tl;dr's. You both admitted that the cause of long matchups is the inherit choice of playstyle between both players so why are you continuing to argue.


I'd like to see Lucas's Uair hit at a 50 degree angle and have little or no KBG. I'd like to see Ness's Uair hit at 90 degrees and have moderate knockback growth, enough to like, chain two uairs together on Battlefield and have the second one kill off the top at like 95%.

 

[I R MarF]

Yo, stop with the ****ing bull**** arguments please. Why are you arguing the cause of long matches. Not everyone has Jiggs or Peach recoveries anyway. I don't see the validity of any of these arguments, just headache inducing tl;dr's. You both admitted that the cause of long matchups is the inherit choice of playstyle between both players so why are you continuing to argue.


I'd like to see Lucas's Uair hit at a 50 degree angle and have little or no KBG. I'd like to see Ness's Uair hit at 90 degrees and have moderate knockback growth, enough to like, chain two uairs together on Battlefield and have the second one kill off the top at like 95%.

Eh, I was just trying to prove that recovery does play a role in match length i guess

 

[Xebenkeck]

50 degree? That would make it almost impossible to combo with, when you consider a 50 degree base knockback on top of DI. i'd say something more like 75 degree.

 

[Vigilante]

Xenbeck is right about the angle thing. It's like when we tried a 45 degree angle on Wolf's shine, we realized it was too low and elevated it to allow combo ability. A 75 degree angle is very comboable.

 

[JediKnightTemplar]

Why would you have a character's move be specifically made to combo into another character's move? That doesn't make sense to me.

 

[rk-9000]

this thread is alot different now, its just huge walls of text with passive aggressive *****ing at other people over the smallest aspects of the game, its not enjoyable to read anymore

 

[Xebenkeck]

pointless post is pointless.

The reason we were disscussing recovery extending match length is that certain people mentioned that matches were lasting too long in P:M. One reason was too many characters had too good of recoveries, which help contribute to longer matches.

I'd rather have lucas uair be a combo move then a killer.

 

[phurgawtin]

give <insert character here> a fornication leg extension.

 

[9Kplus1]

give <insert character here> a fornication leg extension.

Make Sheik's **** bigger? I approve

 

[Xebenkeck]

Shiek is female its mathematically proven man: if A=B and B=C then C=A

So Zelda = Female, and Zelda = Shiek, therfore Shiek = Female.

 

[9Kplus1]

Sheik is not a hypotenuse, he's a guy =L

Speaking of higher tiered characters, is Marth being experimented with?

 

[SNPR]

By the way guys, still streaming with mah crew. Closed alpha!
http://www.justin.tv/sniperfox1

 

[Xebenkeck]

Hypotenus? that is A2 + B2 = C2 lol. 2=squared(there is no subscript option lol)

Waht could you possibly want to change on marth? Only thing I could possibly think of is using his Brawl counter, because I think the window in which he counters is longer.

 

[Vigilante]

People need to chill out here. It's fine to theorycraft, but try and get along.

 

[Hiper]

I finally downloaded the demo yesterday, and despite how old it is, i should´ve done it before. Im having so much fun with link, no comparison with b+.

Also, i have to agree with rk-9000 the thread has been worse lately

 

[Beorn4200]

Man last matches of Link vs X char was *****'in on snipe's stream... Good work showing off that Link raqu. You make him look like such a ******* with that projectile spam into combos. Just wish he could get a kill below 130 140 ever. You racked damage so fast it didn't phase you.

 

[Divinokage]

Why wouldn't he be able to kill lower than 130?

 

[jalued]

Why wouldn't he be able to kill lower than 130?

agree^

upB, upair on floaties, down air, nair edgeguarding, fsmash, upsmash, ftilt edgeguarding all kill below 130% (stage dependant ofc)

 

[L7Junkie]

Yeah, I think Raqu's the best player among our little group. It might just be who he uses, but I dunno. His projectile game is annoying as hell, lol. Which I guess is a good thing.

And yeah, I was dying before 130% quite a lot as I remember. He definitely doesn't have a lack of KO options. And mixed with Raqu's funky play style, Link is just... an ***, lol.

 

[Beorn4200]

Why wouldn't he be able to kill lower than 130?

Dunno, just seems to happen a lot ... On the streams. might be the playstyles of the streamers.

The occasional latter hits of up-b happen near the edge for low kills sometimes. Other than that Dair doesn't seem to be combo-ed into at kill %'s. We all know that **** is powerful ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gZYUGbAcPmY&feature=channel_video_title ) but people don't land it much. Though I'm pretty sure I've combo-ed into it with rang a few times. Those being his most powerful kill moves.
Fair, nair, uair, first hit spin attack, ftilt, fsmash(first hit), and usmash just don't get the job done with DI. Fair's really sexy now with that extra kill power and 15%. Oh and close hit dsmash can kill around 120, but you have to be, well, close... point is link has a bit of trouble getting low kills but as I was saying raqu was making him looks awesome. ^_^

Whoa **** didn't expect so many replies this early in the morning... guess its just me.

 

[jalued]

Fair, nair, uair, first hit spin attack, ftilt, fsmash(first hit), and usmash just don't get the job done with DI.

not outright, but they put the opponent in a poor position where link can most often easily edgeguard. They may have been living longer because people are not experienced with many character's recoveries and how to deal with them yet.

 

[L7Junkie]

Heh. I'm always up this late. Just decided to see if people were talking about the stream at all (and to see if anyone paid me any compliments, lol).

I think Raqu got most of his kills with ftilt, up-b edgeguards and/or comboing into them, some lucky and not-so-lucky dairs and fairs.

 

[JCaesar]

I get most of my Link kills with dthrow->up-B (kills around 100 and works on a surprising number of characters regardless of DI) and nair gimps. Link's nair could be a character by itself.

 

[Beorn4200]

Heh. I'm always up this late. Just decided to see if people were talking about the stream at all (and to see if anyone paid me any compliments, lol).

I think Raqu got most of his kills with ftilt, up-b edgeguards and/or comboing into them, some lucky and not-so-lucky dairs and fairs.

Your pit was looking good... Besides peef no one seems to play him and not get ***** hard... Across stage combos to arrow reset to more combos looks so fun.

 

[L7Junkie]

Apparently, spam_arrows' Pit is good. He was talking a little crap about mine in the chat, lol. Thanks, though. I try. And yeah, comboing across the stage with Pit is fun as heck. You'll feel free as a bird.

 

[hotdogturtle]

Link's nair could be a character by itself.

He'd be a sex character. He has a permanent hitbox out at all times >_>

 

[Archangel]

Apparently, spam_arrows' Pit is good. He was talking a little crap about mine in the chat, lol. Thanks, though. I try. And yeah, comboing across the stage with Pit is fun as heck. You'll feel free as a bird.

doesn't matter what kind of game hack it is. Give me pit, give me 10-15 minutes to adjust, I'll give you a beastly pit.

 

[Time/SpaceMage]

He'd be a sex character. He has a permanent hitbox out at all times >_>

...So like Infinite Sword Glitch? *smirk*

 

[Juushichi]

Many boners to be had with sex kick nair. It has the stamina to succeed... do you?

 

[GHNeko]

Spam arrows fetish and hard on for pit confirmed.

 

[robosteven]

Dude, I'm sorry, but you have one of the worst Link's I've ever seen, your use of clawshot and arrows are PAINFUL to watch

And how can you fail bombjump? I can do that forever without a single fail until the bomb kills me, put it this way, if you don't immediately fly off the screen, you should be able to recover with just 1 or 2 bombjumps, with it Link has a good recovery I've survived well over 200% doing that

I like your Wario though

But please, are there any videos of someone who is good with Link?

One of my eyes was reading your comment while the other was looking at your current avatar and I lol'd, had an aneurysm, and then died.