Project M Social Thread

[Tlock]

So I was thinking of a good way to describe Project M to my casual-playing friends from college in the event that a new patch/demo is released by next year and I go down to visit them in the spring. The best that I came up with was "it's an alternate universe version of Brawl if Brawl were a direct sequel to Melee instead of a separate game in the series."

I see P:M as the fourth and final installment in the smash series. It is clear that Sakurai is not going to change his mentality that he had when developing brawl, so I see no way that SSB4 will be enjoyable to me. This line of thought also helps the waiting for this game to come out. If this is going to be the last smash game I ever play, I want it to be as perfect as possible and I am ok with waiting ever how long is needed.

 

[MaxThunder]

Total noob question: I'm a Brawl player, and I'm currently pretty happy with vBrawl, but this mod seems really interesting. Considering I have absolutely no experience with high-level Melee play (I only learned what a wavedash was a couple months ago, lol), how difficult do you think it is to adjust to the new game? Judging from what I saw from videos and the Melee boards, Melee seems a lot harder and more demanding than Brawl (which isn't something I necessarily like).

just pointing out that i regularly play with a DK main who isn't using any advanced techniques... well apart from dashdancing (but that one is the easiest one... not much advanced...)... and he's about equal with me... so if you know your character and are playing smart, then you don't really need all the tech skill... unless you're aiming at the top level i guess...

Edit: post below = words of truth...

 

[NeoZ]

I'd say give it a shot. Melee is hard at high level, but it's still insanely fun when you don't know anything advanced. P:M is probably not much different.

This.
Melee has been really fun for me since it came out, it's not like the game suddenly becomes fun when you are good enough for tournaments, I played it casually for years and sucked at the game, yet I still had a lot of fun.

 

[ValTroX]

The fun thing of a melee environment is the ability to punish, I played melee sine release, and I started wavedashing like 4 years later. I gotta accept that learning advance techniques gave me a HUGE edge against the people I regularly played with but they quickly learned and things balanced out a little(I'm still the best player among them). So if you play with a party with similar skill to your own, you are guaranteed to have fun, but if you go and play against melee pros, you'll get destroyed and probably lose some interest to play.

 

[MaxThunder]

heh... i didn't start wavedashing until august this year... only just now gotten the hang of it=)...
well that's mostly because i've only been able to regularly play with someone for a few weeks now...

 

[Ecks]

I really recommend giving it a try. When Brawl came out I still played Melee more or less casually (not much ATs at all). Even then I hated Brawl and went back to Melee. Melee is incredibly fun, competitive or not. Do note that playing competitive Melee will require dedication and insane amounts of practice. P:M aims to be Melee's successor so expect it to be like that too. Also, P:M will have so much cool stuff, like new moves/redesigns and stages. It's definitely worth a try.

 

[The_Guide]

Has anyone considered giving Ivysaur a grabbing special for its down-b?

 

[Archangel]

Has anyone considered giving Ivysaur a grabbing special for its down-b?

what kind of grab exactly?

 

[JOE!]

^this

what would be different about it that couldnt be done with her normal grabs?

 

[ValTroX]

He means something like Wario's bite I guess. It give's an aerial gab box. Doesn;t sound too bad tbh

 

[JOE!]

Well yeah, but what *I* was infering was how itd be different entirely from her normal grabs as in, would she be biting the foe? if not, she's be using her vines, which is her normal grab already...

 

[ValTroX]

I guess it wont be different, Unless they add the properties that she steals hp from the foe(I think another brawl mod had this, not sure if B+)

 

[MaxThunder]

ok... how about her up-b tether being able to grab people... on the air... would be hilarious if someone failed to edgehog her...

 

[ValTroX]

IMHO, all tether UpBs should be removed.

 

[MonkUnit]

and you'd have in place of that?..

 

[ValTroX]

IDK, something like a dair that actually propels her upward? Movement of vines so it acts like a helicopter? Anything but a tether

 

[MaxThunder]

what's so wrong with tethers?...

 

[ValTroX]

auto sweet-spot is wrong with tethers.

Maybe the dair-like propeller could be chargeable, like Diddy's barrel. Also she could act out of it, think of it as a fusion of Diddy's and G&W's recovery with a Dair-esque animation. The longer you hold the UpB, the larger the sporecloud released.

Edit: I do admit that tethers are easy to edgeguard, but the auto sweetspot thing just kills 'em for me.

 

[MaxThunder]

am i the only one who keeps failing at tether recoveries?... my failure rate is over 50%... the worst one is olimar... gah...

 

[ValTroX]

lol Olimar's is pretty bad, but oppinions on the thing I proposed are accepted, I don't think it would be a bad change TBH.

 

[MonkUnit]

well of course Olimar's tether is bad. the length depends on how many pikmin he has on him at the time.

 

[ValTroX]

So, no thoughts on the UpB idea Monk? :/

 

[MonkUnit]

i personally dont see a reason to remove the upB tethers. tethers will probably be worked with or w/e later. they arent a problem right now afaik.

 

[Avalancer]

Could anyone post the changes of Jigglypuff and Falco between P:M and melee? My friend who used to play melee plays P:M with me, and he thinks Jigglypuff has gotten heavier and rest stronger (the last already proven wrong)

 

[Shadic]

Jigglypuff had some issues with non-Meleeified hitboxes in the demo. They've been fixed already.

 

[hotdogturtle]

"Imagine Brawl, but better. It's faster again, and more fun! And no characters suck!"

Well, I'd be using that approach for people who didn't notice that Brawl was slow, unfun, or unbalanced in the first place. So this is no good.

 

[~tgm_Zeej]

Ivy with an air grab would be interesting. For some reason, I'm picturing it as a fairly weak meteor. Something to ground bounce onstage to start a combo, or a gimping tool.

I think giving her a better recovery kind of defeats the point of the character. Ivy has one of the most gimpable recoveries in the game. So she should probably be an unforgiving monster on-stage to make up for it, right?

 

[Avalancer]

Jigglypuff had some issues with non-Meleeified hitboxes in the demo. They've been fixed already.

Ah, I see. I'm guessing Falco is pretty much the same? (not counting the landing detection differences)

 

[hotdogturtle]

To me, Demo Jigglypuff felt different than Melee in terms of movement/physics/jumps or whatever. It was kind of like a fusion between Melee and Brawl. I trust that all of those things have been fixed by now, as with all the other characters.

 

[IYM!]

i personally dont see a reason to remove the upB tethers. tethers will probably be worked with or w/e later. they arent a problem right now afaik.

i am agree with this, but would be better have the melee's tethers recovery back , because the move would be more efective ot only for recovery also for make defensive tactics
when the enemy go for gimp us

 

[9Kplus1]

I personally don't see much of a point in giving Ivysaur a better recovery when she doesn't have much to abuse it with. What I mean by that is that Ivysaur's offstage game isn't very hot to begin with, so giving it a better recovery (as per the suggestions in this thread) won't really change much. Giving Ivysaur better aerial mobility and a couple of buffs to it already solid arsenal (a higher "hop" when using and more mobility after Vine Whip for example) could potentially fix her recovery problem; it would also complement Ivysaur's fairly heavy weight, emphasizing on good DI so Ivysaur won't be forced to use its Up B. Another buff to Ivy's recovery that doesn't involve messing around with her specials could be simply replacing her Bair with another bulb attack similar to ROB's vBrawl Bair (correct me if he still has it, as I haven't seen any recent vids of ROB). Said move would push Ivysaur far enough that it could work as a neat recovery mix-up. With that in mind, would it be a viable idea to place a hitbox on Ivy during its Uair? It makes logical sense; I mean, Ivysaur IS propelling itself downward using an explosion that was created on its back.

Anyway, its stage game is what needs attention right now, as even the B+ build felt pretty sluggish (just IMO). To give a better clue of what I'm talking about - making Ivy's dash speed faster, for example, would help it get across the stage faster (it's also backed by Ivysaur being quadrupedal), not only giving it a better reason to use Razor Leaf defensively, but also opening it up to more combo options. Er, speaking of which, I loved the aforementioned idea of CH Razor Leaf as the projectile itself slows down, but I personally think that Razor Leaf should have more shield damage in addition to being slower. In both the games and anime, Razor Leaf just cuts through everything as opposed to outright blowing its target way. Giving Razor Leaf more shield damage would not only be more balanced (pretty easy to powershield anyway), but also pretty accurate canon-wise. Regarding Ivysaur's other moves, I think that Nair should have a less hitboxes and a strong hit at the end with p.bad BKB, but really good KBG. A change of that nature would make Ivysaur a more combo oriented and give her a potential setup for an edgeguard.

Just a few suggestions, don't take them too seriously =/

As far as Ivysaur's Down B is concerned, I'm all in favor of a Force Palm- / Koopa Klaw-ish move; i.e, Cut sounds great. Cut could have a hitbox similar to KK if it doesn't grab and become a meteor when used in the air.

EDIT: Er, ninja'd 9.9

 

[MaxThunder]

actually... a hitbox on ivy's body during uair would be kinda awezome and make sense... i can totally see her going offstage and spiking/meteor smashing someone with it...

and... a shffling her uair must look so hilarious... she'd be bellyflopping while blinking...

 

[hotdogturtle]

With that in mind, would it be a viable idea to place a hitbox on Ivy during its Uair? It makes logical sense; I mean, Ivysaur IS propelling itself downward using an explosion that was created on its back.

That reminds me of Wario's dair with an additional explosion hitbox above him/her (especially if they add a meteor like MaxThunder said). And frankly, that sounds amazing @_@ For a character who supposedly has a bad offstage game and really bad recovery, it might not be a bad idea to have one godly aerial. Then it could be very high risk/high reward to justify its usefulness, but with the rest of Ivysaur's aerials still being mediocre, they could still put the majority of the character's focus on its ground game. The playstyle would be like, "play on the stage, don't go offstage at all, unless you're using uair".

 

[MaxThunder]

and with uair propelling her downwards... and her bad recovery... that's really a pretty risky move...

 

[Avalancer]

Could you guys put the Unrestricted camera code in the .gct file too? :3

 

[MaxThunder]

^^yeah i still don't get why the demo doesn't have that...

 

[jalued]

^^yeah i still don't get why the demo doesn't have that...

i saw a stream, i think PEEF's where it was already included

 

[SuperHappyCow]

Have ivysaur spin upside down before that smoke explosion thing, and use it as a recovery.

 

[PEEF!]

Have ivysaur spin upside down before that smoke explosion thing, and use it as a recovery.

Her dair is currently able to be used as a recovery in that way.

 

[ComradeCanada]

Is there any recordings of some of the streams showcasing newer stuff for those of us who have odd hours to watch things? I'd love to see some of the changes so I can prep for when I convert my college to P:M.