Project M Social Thread Gold

[Life]

Only way removing wavedashing in a platform fighter is acceptable is if, among other things like alternative sources of ground mobility, there's an alternative way to get on the platform smoothly.

Brawl had something like this in platform canceling, where you could instantly land when passing up through a moving platform with a certain input, but it was a bug and, again, only worked on moving platforms (basically Smashville and a few of the more obscure stages like RC). Aerial interrupts do the same thing in a more character-specific fashion.

Having to jump up to a platform and then just kinda wait to fall back down on it is really awkward, especially if your game includes very low platforms like FoD's can be.

If Smash 4 were literally identical except with wavedashing, I'd probably still play it.

Also magikarp Luigi's walk is really important for movement mixups out of WD.

 

[KayB]

"**** Bayonetta" - Dylan Sprouse 2016

 

[KakuCP9]

There was a problem fetching the tweet

GOTTA BLASTO

 

[Binary Clone]

I'm pretty psyched for the Wavedash Games thing. Honestly, more platform fighters isn't gonna be a bad thing, and at best we get a great game with a healthy scene that we can all play. At worst we just keep playing Smash games.

And also, I won my uni's low tier tournament with Roy today. Throwbacks to when I mained Roy in PM. Roy in Melee just feels awful haha. He just is so incredibly incapable. I almost didn't play in the tournament just because I don't like playing low tiers (they're just boring), but I'm glad I ended up doing it.

 

[Life]

Roy vs bad spacies is the Melee equivalent of PM's Bowser vs bad spacies.

 

[Kurri ★]

I'm pretty psyched for the Wavedash Games thing. Honestly, more platform fighters isn't gonna be a bad thing, and at best we get a great game with a healthy scene that we can all play. At worst we just keep playing Smash games.

And also, I won my uni's low tier tournament with Roy today. Throwbacks to when I mained Roy in PM. Roy in Melee just feels awful haha. He just is so incredibly incapable. I almost didn't play in the tournament just because I don't like playing low tiers (they're just boring), but I'm glad I ended up doing it.

I think people are just pessimistic, especially when it's an indie dev with no notable games in their history.

Personally, so long as it plays well, has a nice artstyle, interesting characters, and nice soundtrack, I'll probably enjoy it.

 

[Lizalfos]

According to my friends intelligence is sleeping in Calclus and still making A's.

Ok, we get it, you are insecure and waste all your time with friends during the day and get only three hours of sleep every night after cramming.

No, I won't make oatmeal for you.
And that isn't ****ed up.

 

[standardtoaster]

i legit never know what lizalfos is talking about

 

[Bleck]

https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/...hers_matt_and_i_are_the_cofounders_of/d22qp5z

"Will be have something "like" L-Canceling that creates a skill gap via input timing. Very likely. We just have to do it right."

sigh

 

[Smooth Criminal]

Yes, we do have Battletoads. Pretty good edit/mashup/splice of Rash's theme. Probably my second favorite theme so far in KI Season 3.

I hope they don't try to loop the main theme's riff/chords into every other theme this season. It sounds cool, but it can get really redundant after a while (see Kim Wu's theme). Seems like Celldweller and Atlas Plug did get Arbiter right, though. Not surprising considering that Atlas Plug's worked on the musical composition of some games in the Halo franchise and all. He's certainly not O'Donnel, but hey, good enough for me. Haven't found a really good variant of Tusk's theme yet but from what I can gather, it's pretty ok.

tl;dr I still miss Mick being at the helm for the music, lol

Smooth Criminal

 

[Kurri ★]

"Will be have something "like" L-Canceling that creates a skill gap via input timing. Very likely. We just have to do it right."

sigh

Yeah, I sorta died there too, but eh, maybe they do find a way to implement it without feeling forced or unnecessary.

I swear the Smash community is the only community that demands unnecessary and complex mechanics for the sake of unnecessary and complex mechanics. I got to the Street Fighter community and everyone is ****ting on FADC and One-frame links. Makes me appreciate Street Fighter more

 

[Lizalfos]

i legit never know what lizalfos is talking about

I have a meme of consciousness.

 

[teluoborg]

"Will be have something "like" L-Canceling that creates a skill gap via input timing. Very likely. We just have to do it right."

sigh

Imo you just read that wrong.
They're not putting L cancel into their game and that's a good thing. They're adding timing based skill test(s).
Timing based skill tests are basically in every fighter in the form of just frames or links.
Things like perfect shielding also create a skill gap via input timing so really the something "like" L cancel that they want to implement could be pretty much anything.

 

[wiztick]

Snip

if they mentioned it will b like L-canceling then they most likely din't mean it like perfect shielding.

i really don't want this game to be a fad game. only to be played and dissmissed 2 weeks later cuz it din't provide that hole people wanted. im getting a feeling that wavedash games are trying to make a perfect melee, instead of trying to make a great platform fighter

 

[PMS | LEVEL 100 MAGIKARP]

the smash/platform fighter community is so steeped in ideology that nobody can imagine a perfect platform fighter outside of the confines and base framework of melee

 

[teluoborg]

Well then you should probably go read the reddit ama where they say exactly that they are trying to create a great platform fighter and not a perfect melee, that should reassure you.

 

[PMS | LEVEL 100 MAGIKARP]

no that's what I'm saying, even when trying to create a perfect platform fighter, nobody is capable of building from the ground up, all any developer aside from sakurai seems to be able to do is do simply make changes to or paste their own ideas onto the framework of melee

nobody can even imagine building a platform fighter without the model of melee to compare to

 

[standardtoaster]

One of the issues I see them facing is character design. Everyone enjoys smash because it uses well known IPs. If you had the same game but completely new characters trying to target the same audience it would probably be nowhere as popular

 

[Binary Clone]

I dunno, honestly Smash 4 is fairly independent from that framework. Completely reworked ledge interactions, no L-cancelling/major input barriers (unless you count pivot stuff I guess), reworked jab combos that link much better, most combos being purposefully short and simple, pretty much all characters having some kind of throw combo...

But I think the main point is that platform fighters are still too young to really depart from Smash far enough to distinguish themselves. And by "young" I don't mean straight up "this many years" kind of thing, but as in how much exists within the genre. Prior to recent years, we only really has Playstation All-Stars. Now we have Brawlhalla and Rivals of Aether and now this upcoming Wavedash Games title. But... that's pretty much it, discounting mods and fangames, which aren't really independent titles.

It's hard to frame platform fighters outside of the model of Smash when Smash is just about the only model out there. At this point in the development of platform fighters as a genre, we might as well just call them Smash clones. Think about how many genres were defined by a single game or series. Rogues are actually just called that because of Rogue. For a long time, first-person shooters were actually just called Doom clones, and it took quite a while and a lot of popularity for the genre to actually progress far enough to distinguish itself from that Doom/Wolfenstein box - and a lot of that was just by virtue of technological advances and the ability to do more, scale things up, increase realism, etc.

Even so, people tend to ignore the platform fighters that don't conform to that model. People are totally capable of building platform fighters from the ground up, but they're small and people don't tend to compare them to Melee/Smash because they feel so distinct. Remember that flash game Chaos Faction? Pretty much a platform fighter. Heard of Duck Game? Pretty much a platform fighter. The difference is that those games aren't in that box as much, so people don't relate them as much. But they're not quite melee-like enough to draw that particular crowd more than anyone else.

 

[Bazkip]

I dunno, honestly Smash 4 is fairly independent from that framework.

any developer aside from sakurai

lrn2read

 

[Binary Clone]

lrn2read

My b, see rest of post for actual relevance. Just ignore the first paragraph.

 

[trash?]

the smash/platform fighter community is so steeped in ideology that nobody can imagine a perfect platform fighter outside of the confines and base framework of melee

because that's literally the only one that has a 100% hit rate in competitive play

it'd be like getting mad at people creating fighting games in the early 90s for basing core stuff off of street fighter 2, like that's the only baseline you had for something that absolutely worked

 

[Strong Badam]

Yeah but can I do Bite -> Waft in Wavedash's game? If not then gg checkmate atheists

 

[CORY]

Yeah but can I do Bite -> Waft in Wavedash's game? If not then gg checkmate atheists

well, if you really wanted to know, you could tag them here.

or it might be too late and they'll just say the ama was yesterday : /

 

[shairn]

I've unwittingly become a small celebrity at my local bank for ordering Japanese yen, since none of the ladies there had seen them before

 

[CORY]

I've unwittingly become a small celebrity at my local bank for ordering Japanese yen, since none of the ladies there had seen them before

Weeb

 

[Bleck]

Imo you just read that wrong.
They're not putting L cancel into their game and that's a good thing. They're adding timing based skill test(s).
Timing based skill tests are basically in every fighter in the form of just frames or links.
Things like perfect shielding also create a skill gap via input timing so really the something "like" L cancel that they want to implement could be pretty much anything.

sounds to me like they're putting in l-canceling

One of the issues I see them facing is character design. Everyone enjoys smash because it uses well known IPs. If you had the same game but completely new characters trying to target the same audience it would probably be nowhere as popular

project m demonstrated that even the same game with the same characters trying to target the same audience it still wasn't anywhere near as popular

 

[PMS | LEVEL 100 MAGIKARP]

why not just add grab teching rather than adding lcancelling

 

[shairn]

Make a QWOP style fighting game like toribash but real time

 

[PMS | Tink-er]

why would you make grabbing worse than it already is in smash? most characters combo into and out of grabs, grab teching would just kill cool things like tech chasing.

 

[CORY]

why not just add grab teching rather than adding lcancelling

I would want grab breaks so hard...

why would you make grabbing worse than it already is in smash? most characters combo into and out of grabs, grab teching would just kill cool things like tech chasing.

Because smash grabs are pretty stupid. A lot of the stupid is necessary for how the game engine works, but they can be given other checks without having their functionality be gutted.

 

[eideeiit]

why would you make grabbing worse than it already is in smash?

wtf grabs are broken

but seriously, 2 grabs with differing frame data, a way to choose which one to tech and dynamic rewards to them would be a much better system than what melee/pm's got.

Also watched The lives of others, a German movie from 2006 about DDR's Stasi spying on it's own citizens. Though not perfect, it was a really truly good film and I'm glad I finally got around to watching it. The acting especially worked, it fit the rest of the movie so well. I haven't watched many German films, but either this or Metropolis is probably the best.

 

[PMS | LEVEL 100 MAGIKARP]

why would you make grabbing worse than it already is in smash? most characters combo into and out of grabs, grab teching would just kill cool things like tech chasing.

the smash/platform fighter community is so steeped in ideology that nobody can imagine a perfect platform fighter outside of the confines and base framework of melee

 

[PMS | Tink-er]

if i wanted to play a game where grabbing is worse, i'd play a game where grabbing is worse. this has nothing to do with grabs and everything to do with the fact that i main ice climbers. i don't like dashdancing in smash, i don't want to play a footsies based game. i'll take my ****ty 50/50 approaches and busted grab punishes how they are.

 

[Deleted member]

it was good **** posting in here boys, but I think I'm gonna close my SB account because I hate all of you

especially you, @PlateProp.

Goodbye Strong Badam , end my suffering

 

[eideeiit]

@ Texan folks
Is Lunchables this weird irl too?

 

[CORY]

@ Texan folks
Is Lunchables this weird irl too?

He's sees fairly stable, for a teenager who rules his pm scene with an iron fist.

But I really only interact with him about once a month. So who knows.

 

[CORY]

if i wanted to play a game where grabbing is worse, i'd play a game where grabbing is worse. this has nothing to do with grabs and everything to do with the fact that i main ice climbers. i don't like dashdancing in smash, i don't want to play a footsies based game. i'll take my ****ty 50/50 approaches and busted grab punishes how they are.

Stop being dumb and stick to being cute.

 

[Kurri ★]

So, who else is playing the Overwatch stress test?

 

[standardtoaster]

only thing i know about overwatch is that tracer is mad cute