Project M Social Thread Gold

[Kaye Cruiser]

...What the actual hell is going on in here right now? I'm way past lost at this point. O_o'

 

[valakmtnsmash4]

Me too, I have no idea what happened since yesterday.

...What the actual hell is going on in here right now? I'm way past lost at this point. O_o'

 

[Grey Belnades]

...What the actual hell is going on in here right now? I'm way past lost at this point. O_o'

Nerd stuff. The usual.

 

[Leafeon]

Quit being so overdramatic.

You're the worst of them all.

Well, too late now.

Torrents of the current "definitive build" have been compiled all over the web.

Even if you convince upstarting devs to drop it, the fans still have it, and indie modders have access to the source code. No point crying over spilt milk, might as well just enjoy the ride, and do what you can.

On a side note, I heard Nanobuds is absolutely livid and causeing a lot of **** in the BR over the 4chan leakers. He's ready to kill someone apparently.

I actually hate you gossip and rumour spreading types. Atrocious.
This is not the kind of thing you can say in public without actually hurting someone.

 

[Lizalfos]

Someone on the Discord server this is the best way to figure out why they stopped development.

So if they want to be arrogant enough to try, they can be my guest, but as it stands, we're now a community of thirds. We've got top players saying we should go back to 3.02 on social media, we have people who actually want to grind 3.6, and we have people who want to move forward with scattered assets.

Who really ends up being right here, in the end? Probably no one.

Omg, just let them make the bugfix patch, newPMDT is taking things one step at a time so you are jumping to far out problems. RN there is just one version of PM used by TOs.

 

[Leafeon]

The right thing to do is just play 3.6, like you've been told to do by the flickering, dying flames of the dt.

 

[Infinite]

https://www.reddit.com/r/NewPMDT/comments/3v95nf/in_response_to_strong_bad_and_the_old_pmdt_as/

New modes, new codes, new physics, new costumes, new music, new everything. It will be professional and will work perfectly.

Sounds to me like they have never coded before. Nothing ever works perfectly in a software environment. 5+ years for the PMDT and there are still bugs. Is it because they are terrible at coding? Obviously not. Don't inflate yourselves to be the next PMDT, especially with nothing in hand. You want to mod, FINE. But don't come to the community pretending to be it's saviour when we don't need one. All this will cause is 3/5 of the people saying WTF are these new modders thinking, just play 3.6 - 1/5 going oh well they said we need to be saved so it must be true.... SAVE ME, SAVE ME. And 1/5 noticing this trend thinks PM is going to die so leaves the game.

PM is likely going to die if we keep going down this road....

 

[ZombieBran]

Is there a way to remove all lurkers and non regulars thatll start posting a ton of **** once something major happens, keep my poor little thread alone

Hi.
Can confirm, don't give a **** about this thread, just here for the drama.

 

[Rawkobo]

Omg, just let them make the bugfix patch, newPMDT is taking things one step at a time so you are jumping to far out problems. RN there is just one version of PM used by TOs.

That's possibly closest to the only thing I'd be okay with anyone doing on this "new team." Nothing more.

You're the worst of them all.

I actually hate you gossip and rumour spreading types. Atrocious.
This is not the kind of thing you can say in public without actually hurting someone.

Part of this entire situation has been essentially that. People making decisions to spite other people by doing things anyway and then rumoring it's making them go ape****.

Of course they're going to go ape****. They're having things said about them with no actual basis.

 

[MechWarriorNY]

Of course they're going to go ape****.

And they are idiots for doing so, because acting like that...

They're having things said about them with no actual basis.

...won't actually do anything about this. Cooler heads must prevail if progress is to be made, and right now, progress is desperately needed.

 

[Rawkobo]

And they are idiots for doing so, because acting like that......won't actually do anything about this. Cooler heads must prevail if progress is to be made.

This is...actually a fair point.

I had stuff I was going to sort of tack on regarding why the instantaneous response of damage control just ended up happening, but it's...basically that, yes.

 

[Geno Boost]

So will Knuckles and Lyn and Isaac ever gets released?

 

[drakargx]

No

Theyre not worth it either imo

 

[Zzuxon]

So will Knuckles and Lyn and Isaac ever gets released?

Probably not officially, but they've all been leaked.

 

[steelguttey]

god this new pmdt **** is ****ing ridiculous. you can change it to project "not project m" and it wouldnt matter because theyre still using the same exact assets that the pmdt used and they will reach the same legal walls project m did. all this is gonna do is split the community in half, we dont need that. just play 3.6, its still the most balanced smash game by a landslide, no matter how much people want to deny it EVERY CHARACTER can win a tournament as a solo main, just stop being a *****.

 

[eideeiit]

Nothing beats bad semi-self-made pixel art avatars.

I played some PM on netplay. Was fun, but man, this was the first time I came across a Wario with a punish game and I can tell you some salt was had. A D A P T A T I O N B O Y S I guess.

Also it's strange how much better my Samus is compared to my other 3-days-mained chars.

I really hope things solidify quickly. I can't really see the comp. community adapting anything except 3.6 or the 3.61 with the bug fixes as its standard. I really hope there was a real community head or something for pm now. Maybe the Salt mines will do it. I really hope they find a solution.

What'd really grind my gears would be these new modders using the names PM and PMDT. The PMDT disbanded and no other group should use their name on their **** just cause they want to carry on doing what they did, even if their ideas are the same (doubt it).

 

[Rawkobo]

Finally caught up with the thread since I took time off last night, sans the couple of posts I made a little while ago.

If @Fortress's post demonstrates anything, it's that it's perfectly clear what kinds of mentalities are in the "new" PMDT. Accepting just about anyone is a huge mistake that the people who are likely leading point on this whole thing are going to regret immediately. I've had the opportunity to see who's on the team, and while I do know a few of them are coders (that may or may not have applied to the team and gotten rejected) and names in the community, the rest are distinctly people who are unfamiliar with building around a particular design philosophy.

The goals listed are evidence of that. Yes, okay, this game became its own thing different than Melee because of the mingling of physics and how the different characters interacted with these changes. But it was a basis that gave clear things to build around. The current bullet points are vague and don't represent much thought or consideration put into those decisions. They're simply a line to work with the current assets that may or may not have been improved without them knowing to begin with (the build is clearly old enough because of the "Halloween" build that had updated Roy in it, meaning that there was a substantial amount of time where Knuckles, Lyn, etc. could've been overhauled, but people are apparently crazy enough to think that these rough designs are "fine" and "nearly done").

Sorry to everyone in PMS who's been having to see this **** pop up in your thread over the past 36 hours. I miss waifus and life talk and ****posting too.

 

[.alizarin]

https://www.reddit.com/r/NewPMDT/comments/3v95nf/in_response_to_strong_bad_and_the_old_pmdt_as/

"Project M is the spiritual successor to Melee, and Evolution will be the spiritual successor to PM.
.

yeah let's divide the community during a vulnerable time in its life when it needs unification

0/10
0/10
0/10

 

[wiztick]

snip

thats the problem unfortantly. people follow PM beacuse it promised balance. 3.5/3.6 was in the middle of a patch that was focusing on design issues meaning balance not looked at meaning guys who main bowser/D3/link (im the link one) feel screwed beacuse we expect this to be remedied when they got the chance to really look at them. thats why crazy "definitive editions" will always come out because of this or any other things they expected in later patching.

this happens to all popular things though, look at the shadow final remix version 6.9 stuff that exist.

 

[PMS | LEVEL 100 MAGIKARP]

fine I guess I'll write a thing about PM 32 hours or so removed from the actual closing announcement because I know at least @CORY will probably read it

first lemme get some silly little things out of the way: anyone who wants 3.02 back seems to either play one of the top tier characters (lucas, pit, diddy, mewtwo, fox) or would rather complain about how good those characters are than learn the current and much more manageable matchups. or those people are from mdva and want back the era where they and their pm scene were at the center of smash and vgbc was beginning its rise to power

**** gamergate and gamergate discussion I want that toxic ****hole contained on 8chan and whatever other vile misogynistic place it came from. at this point you are only serving to make enemies when you bring up gamergate

also I miss when canon posted a lot and got in arguments with kink link all the time lmao

Alright, now I guess it's time to pitifully wax poetic over this mod of a videogame.
Project M was what really introduced me to the world of competitive fighting games and the smash scene in general. Since then, I have gone from playing Project M casually to my current point, where PM is the only videogame I play aside from dabbling in a few other fighting games. I've slowly stopped playing videogames altogether because I've found that none offer unsolvable complexity of interactions and emergent design of a metagame full of a community's attempts to optimize the disparate characters that Project M or other fighting games offer. For the past two years my "most visited tabs" section of Chrome has had a link to the Project M general discussion subforum on smashboards. I would be lying if I said that Project M was not one of the things I consistently thought about on a daily basis.

At first I was drawn to the possibilities of Project M: a metagame that was constantly changing for the better with patches and character balance that wasn't hemmed in by rigid and unchanging design choices of distant Nintendo employees. It was a whole new world of interactions and mechanics and characters where I felt I could learn something new about the game itself any time I watched a stream or a vod. There was a world inside of this game and the players who played it and I loved it. That only grew with subsequent patches and added characters. I watched the game itself grow and create its own pantheon of characters, players, moments, and strategies. This wide open world was still wide open, but it was growing its own legend and inscribing its own heroes on its halls for posterity.

I'm obviously sad that the PMDT is no more. My avatar probably is an accurate representation towards my feelings on the matter. Project M was an eternally young game, a game that promised new content and balance goodies with each new patch. The creation of a metagame, like a Lego building, was able to be constantly altered and made fresh by the addition or subtraction of new building blocks in character additions or move changes. However, the patches were a blessing and a curse. They obviously provided better overall balance as time went on, but they also hindered metagame growth within each patch as people banked on or waited for the next one. Project M has stopped receiving patches and will no longer be eternally young and new: it's going to age and mature. However, I realized that the purpose of patches wasn't to constantly keep changing the game, but to develop, by trial and error, a game which didn't need patches.

Based on this, after being initially sad and shocked after the disbandment of the PMDT, I realized that this may have been the unannounced deadline that the PMDT was working towards: the time when they couldn't prop PM up anymore and it needed to stand on its own. As such, I was and am excited for the opportunity to see how their creation changes and develops over time, not by their influence, but by ours. The child of the PMDT has left the cradle, and is still just as full of infinite possibilities as it was as an infant, but now it has the opportunity to grow into a strong, independent game like its father Melee.

The strength of a competitive game is based on competition and a game withers and dies if there are no players competing in it. This is where I fear the most for the future of Project M, that without the active parenting of the PMDT, its scene will splinter and lead itself astray. Project M is a competitive game focused first on gameplay, and the entire scene needs to be on board about the nature of this. We've worked hard to make this game what it is today and to give it the storied history it has (much of it actually transcribed within this social thread or the one before it). I don't want to lose it all now. If we love Project M as a competitive game, we all wish for the best for it, which right now involves unity behind both the former dev team as well as the actual game itself. All major TOs as well as the former members of the PMDT have come forward and said that the official version of the game going forward is the final release of 3.6. In order to allow this game that we've invested so much time and effort into, we need to stay united.

It's no longer 2013, Smash is no longer a newcomer trying to gain traction at Evo, and #OneUnit is widely regarded as wishful thinking at best or a farce at worst. Unity between the entirety of the fractional Smash scene has always been a fractious topic, and it is even more now, with PM being made the black (purple?) sheep of the flock. However, we don't need unity through the entire smash scene, we just need all the nerds who love our silly mod to be united. While this may seem cheesey, I don't think any sort of PM-specific usage of the phrase #OneUnit would be convincing or appropriate. We need something that is our own and captures what we want.

Earlier today, I posted Sethlon's One Soul Burning PM combo video. Sethlon's Roy has come to be a symbol of PM and Sethlon and his Roy are some of the heroes that are undoubtedly carved on the golden walls of the PM mythos. Few things represent PM better than a member of the Dev Team performing with his own character that he brought back to existence from Melee. I think this combo video comes close to capturing the spirit of Project M: a single-minded desire of achieving the most one can with the tools that one has created.

Deep down, we all want Project M to succeed (except Hax$ lmao) in our way and I think we all acknowledge that it requires unity. We've all been involved with this game and of those of us who are heavily invested in it, I think we're all burning with one shared passion: to make Project M the greatest game it can be, and then some. This requires unity. We need to be one unit, but more importantly we all have one burning passion that we share. Collectively, we have one soul burning with passion for this game. We are one unit with #OneSoul.

Cmon, let's make Project M great. #OneSoul

tl;dr: play 3.6 u bakas

 

[Dastardly Ridleylash]

thats the problem unfortantly. people follow PM beacuse it promised balance. 3.5/3.6 was in the middle of a patch that was focusing on design issues meaning balance not looked at meaning guys who main bowser/D3/link (im the link one) feel screwed beacuse we expect this to be remedied when they got the chance to really look at them. thats why crazy "definitive editions" will always come out because of this or any other things they expected in later patching. this happens to all popular things though, look at the shadow final remix version 6.9 stuff that exist.

Again, they can't do much about it, either. It was either cut PM down themselves to avoid any legal issues or risk getting into much more serious legal matters with Nintendo that could have cost them a lot more money then they could afford and bankrupt them.

I fail to see why people feel like they're entitled to content we'd always been getting FOR FREE. It's not like we got screwed out of the full paid experience by unreleased DLC or anything, they were literally going to cost nothing but a bit of time to update your game. And this attitude that the PMDT are being overreactive about the leak really rubs me the wrong way, because a lot of people forget that there's this part of working together in a professional team that not many people expect to be actively breached like this.

They're mad about the leak because the content is being purposefully put out to the public without their consent. That's basically theft at that point. It's like being told to keep a new dinosaur genus to the people in the know and then leaking it, name and all, 48 hours before it was published in a journal. And people are mad because they're raising a legitimate uproar over this?!

There's being considerate to us and giving us the unfinished content with the developers' consent...and then there's leaking unfinished or underdeveloped content without the consent of the creators.

 

[AirshBornely]

Sami? She's not in pm

She is. You just have to rename her files to Snake and put them in the Snake folder.

Samus

oh, I see, sami as in plural samus. she is pretty similar to snake, what with projectiles, crawl, legs, arms, a head, a torso, and being in project m

That's actually not the first time I've heard her referred to by that nickname. I thought it was a northwestern thing.

re: Oh, he did mention Advance Wars. Didn't even see that. Just saw 'Sami', 'side-B', and 'Snake'.

I wanna believe that this was all a joke.

Thats cool. None of the unreleased characters are going to be considered "official characters" for use in tournament play. However no one can stop you from playing it on your own/with friends.

I know. Just nice getting to enjoy these.

Lyn, Isaac and Knuckles of course are fun.

I'm actually looking forward to seeing 20XX at tournaments.

 

[Gamegenie222]

 

[Soft Serve]

God damn I leave the thread for a day and we get 20 pages of stupidity

Yeah I want to play knuckles too, but a new dev team will just split our community. Don't even give af about the ethical whatever, we shouldn't update past bug fixes, which should be done in a month or so. It's rediculous that less than 12 hours after the news people jumped on it thinking they can do better. Have fun getting sued, if "evolution" splits the community further and the game dies quicker, you know who to blame.

 

[Blank Mauser]

My impression of Lyn so far:

 

[Rawkobo]

did we know wonder woman was actually going to be in this movie or am i high

 

[Zzuxon]

Are there any projects starting to clean up Knuckles, Lyn, Sami, and Isaac?
Other than the silly newPMDT I mean.

 

[MechWarriorNY]

Rawkobo Though I tend to be cold and unemotional in times of adversity due to my biased belief that feelings get in the way of doing what must be done(I subscribe to the same school of thought that sorts like Kiritsugu, Lord Vetinari, and Optimus Prime do there), it's very rare that I can't easily come up with solutions to problems because of it.
:^)

 

[Zzuxon]

did we know wonder woman was actually going to be in this movie or am i high

She appeared briefly in the first trailer.

 

[Raccoon Chuck]

So will Knuckles and Lyn and Isaac ever gets released?

Nope.

 

[TTTTTsd]

God damn I leave the thread for a day and we get 20 pages of stupidity

Yeah I want to play knuckles too, but a new dev team will just split our community. Don't even give af about the ethical whatever, we shouldn't update past bug fixes, which should be done in a month or so. It's rediculous that less than 12 hours after the news people jumped on it thinking they can do better. Have fun getting sued, if "evolution" splits the community further and the game dies quicker, you know who to blame.

At this point he's best left in the dev build for those who want to try him and see what could've been, yeah. It's an interesting thought but the amount of QA it would take + the fact that it's not the old DT working on it I think makes it meaningless, who would understand their game more? I have to agree here, he'd just take too much work and it wouldn't be OFFICIAL in the PM sense. Plus that whole legal liability thing (AKA the reason they quit) should scare people away from the idea of full blown updates. Like as interesting and cool as he is (he'd probably be in that "main 4 lyfe" thing for me) it's just not a good idea nor is it really plausible, yeah.

The most I want is 3.6 with bugfixes but IDK if that's gonna happen or not, so 3.6f is what we should use.

 

[PurplishBacon]

Personally I'm sticking with the PM:XP team and wherever they go. They got a decent team of decent people. They shut down temporarily over (you know what) but their twitter said they're back. and about the leaked Chars I think lyn and knuckles could be playable but not Issac or Sami.

That's my 2 cents

oh and no 3.02 that would be like GE stops making light bulbs so everyone goes back to candles. that's the only thing I'm completely opposed to.

 

[Lukie_Pookie]

Are there any projects starting to clean up Knuckles, Lyn, Sami, and Isaac?
Other than the silly newPMDT I mean.

Nobody relevant is messing with this right now. Honestly, the only group worth trusting to finish those WIP characters is the PMDT, and they're out. It would be better for a new group to just make their own versions of those characters to both respect the work of the PMDT and build something that they can really claim as their own.

On that topic, does the PMDT not want any mods forking from Project M, or do they just want to avoid the releases of any new mods or patches that come out under the Project M name? I did not completely understand from Strong Bad's post what exactly can cause them legal issues. They aren't against 3.6 being distributed and used in tournaments, so PM 3.6 being proliferated isn't a concern. Other than being potentially disrespectful, how do the actions of other modders put the PMDT at risk? Main thing I can think of is if a fork gets tangled into a real legal dispute, it might get the PMDT roped in as well (meaning all works using PM assets are problematic). Also, a community bugfix release that looks like a main branch release could invite attention from Nintendo if the situation was starting to get sketchy. However, I don't know enough about the law to know what the situation is, which is why I'm asking.

 

[Deleted member]

I think it's best to just let people do what they want, and let the chips fall where they may.

As you can see, the community is already split, and there is nothing you can do to stop that, especially by estranging people and telling them what they should or shouldn't do.

If other people wanna continue development, let them. If it bothers you, don't support it. But the only thing you'll accomplish by acting like elitsts over mods modding other mods is that you'll get left in the dust and lose all sympathy from others by trying to remain exclusive, rather than inclusive.

Play your game, have fun, and if other people wanna play this version? Cool. If they would rather play newer versions, and later versions become more popular? Oh well.

But acting like the original work of the PMDT is absolute and unmatchable is the greatest load of bullocks I've heard in a long time. You people used to complain about Smash purists criticising PM for being a mod, and would defend the validity of said mod for it's quality, but now, you're doing just the same with the new uptake, staying fanboys through and through. Without any evidence of anything, making all sorts of prejudgements. And it's ironic, considering the PMDTs work was derrivative fanwork to begin with, and half the talent is still eager to work with the new team.

Hypocrisy at it's finest. This sort of attitude, NEVER ends up well.

 

[Lukie_Pookie]

But acting like the original work of the PMDT is absolute and unmatchable is the greatest load of bullocks I've heard in a long time.

I agree. Though I don't think that dealing with their janky WIP stuff is a great idea, people are probably gonna make some sweet forks from PM. Whether they end up used in tournaments or not is TBD, but fun alternatives are gonna pop up regardless.

 

[Kneato]

Hey, fun fact I haven't seen anyone consider.

Yea its apparent that SSBEvo doesn't give a **** about the consequences their actions could have on the original PMDT and likely haven't thought about what consequences they themselves may have to face.

But if they do provoke actual legal action from Nintendo (the very thing that PMDT was trying to avoid in the first place), they aren't just ****ing themselves and the old dev team. They are ****ing the whole community.

Look at what happened when merely VGBC stopped streaming PM. The HINT of possible legal action behind the scenes MAJORLY crippled the PM tournament scene in North America. Everyone became afraid to stream PM, everyone became afraid of hosting PM.

Now what kind of effect do you think explicit legal action on Nintendo's part would have?

 

[Jonyc128]

I just read the last 5 pages, ALL OF IT.

 

[Deleted member]

I agree. Though I don't think that dealing with their janky WIP stuff is a great idea, people are probably gonna make some sweet forks from PM. Whether they end up used in tournaments or not is TBD, but fun alternatives are gonna pop up regardless.

People are gonna have a hard time keeping PM relevant with Smash 4 sweeping the scene though, especially with Nintendo trying to squash it out.

Melee stayed relevant cause Brawl sucked that bad.

And PM still had momentum after Smash 4 cause people were holding out for all the new content, namely the characters. Smash 4 is NOT a bad game, and it trumps PM in having a more diverse and exciting roster.

From here on, modding will take all the PM assets to port them onto WiiU, and PM will stay "purist" with most tournaments refusing to include it due to it being radioactive.

If the PM scene refuses to adapt, they'll simply kill themselves off. They were already struggling for revelance, with this attitude though, they'll be on suicide watch.

 

[drakargx]

I'm actually a bit confused as to why Mr. video game lawyer hasn't come around to talk about the legality of the situation. People love to play lawyer and change the situation so it fits them the best but I'm pretty sure all this talk of continuing PM would stop if people actually realized what the dev team realized

 

[Lizalfos]

I do find it funny how the "newPMDT" is just a bunch of randoms who decided because they made a sub-reddit they'll be the new official PMDT lol

I like how this was how the original PMDT started.