Project M Social Thread Gold

[mimgrim]

LMFAO

Ryu's frame advantage against shield on Nair/Bair are pretty freaking ridiculous now. Fair's pretty good now too.

Too bad I suck horribly at the game rofl.

 

[Soft Serve]

Puff got buffs and nerfs cuz of it, sh air dodge nair is safer, pound probably destroys shields even more now, but now you can't shield a yoshi dair without losing a stock


Going to just keep playing jiggs/Ryu when I do occasionally play that game. Only cool characters

Also Yuck Foshi, in every smash game

 

[Player -0]

Reminds me. mimgrim I'm playing KH: Chain of Memories!

I'm on the Atlantica (or something) part with Aerial (how spell?)

Edit - Soft Serve There are a bunch of cool characters in Smash 4 like LM, Robin, Swordfighter >:C

Also Duck Hunt is looking pretty interesting.

huehuehuehuhheuheuhehuehue. The random button calls to me

 

[KayB]

Yeah right.

There was a problem fetching the tweet

That shieldstun change is really the biggest thing since the death of VI (and something I was personally waiting for since the Brawl days).

I'm really excited by this change even though I'm sure it's going to backfire horribly at some point.

#blockstrings

Let's be honest here.

The only true block strings that Shulk can do from an aerial requires MALLC (as shown in this video), which is super situational, especially so if your opponent knows what MALLC is to begin with. In addition, in order to actually induce enough shield damage to do a shield break, in most cases the Monado needs to be in buster mode, which unfortunately not only makes MALLC harder but also much easier for the opponent to see coming. Otherwise, Bair (or any other aerial for that matter) is not safe on shield even with the added shield stun (sans characters that have high traction like Luigi, which is unrelated to the shield stun buff) without MALLC, making this shield break combo extremely unlikely and sub-optimal. This game has almost been out for a year and I still have yet to see people even getting close to using MALLC as a viable strategy to begin with.

And even if this was somehow a slight buff to Shulk, it doesn't change the fact that other characters will benefit from this change much more than he will, meaning that, relatively speaking, Shulk will actually be nerfed, especially considering that Shulk has pretty ****ty defensive options out of shield already.

Until I actually see an in-game example of someone using the added shield-stun to benefit Shulk, I have doubts that this shield stun mechanic actually helps him in the long run.

 

[Soft Serve]

Reminds me. mimgrim I'm playing KH: Chain of Memories!

I'm on the Atlantica (or something) part with Aerial (how spell?)

Edit - Soft Serve There are a bunch of cool characters in Smash 4 like LM, Robin, Swordfighter >:C

Also Duck Hunt is looking pretty interesting.

huehuehuehuhheuheuhehuehue. The random button calls to me

Objectively false, the only cool characters are ryu and puff.

Actually, everyone not yoshi is pretty okay I guess.

Yoshi mains in smash 4 should burn their wiius

 

[drakargx]

Study session thing wasnt so bad after all imo

Before we left she asked me and my friend if we knew someone... she also faintly said facebook before saying his name so I managed to put two and two together and I found her facebook account doing it, our only mutual friend was the person she listed and she didn't seem to be in contact with him more so I think she checked earlier. From our texts I was already forming some sort of idea of where she might come from but now it's getting very clear.

I definitely want to ask her out or something to go talk about stuff like this but with no car it limits the scope of what you can do... for various reasons I DONT want anyone in my family to know I'm even remotely interested in a girl right now. Since we live near each other already I was planning on asking for a walk around the neighborhood next week when we dont have school but I'm not sure if this would be a suitable date or not...

 

[KakuCP9]

Soft Serve
What did Yoshi do to you to make you hate all of his incarnations? (even brawl Yoshi?)

 

[Soft Serve]

Soft Serve
What did Yoshi do to you to make you hate all of his incarnations? (even brawl Yoshi?)

Has you fought a smash 4 yoshi? It's ****ing cancer

Melee/64 yoshi is fine I guess. Brawl yoshi is just bad. Pm yoshi double jumps out litterally of everything diddy tries to do to him and actually is a good character out side of it

 

[Bleck]

yeahhh Smash 4 Yoshi is kind of ridiculous

 

[Kushina43]

yeahhh Smash 4 Yoshi is kind of ridiculous

Speaking of, what do you think about the shieldstun increase?

 

[Giygacoal]

Anyone else like Ip Man? I like Ip Man.

Ip Man 3: Punch-Out! The Movie
Ip Man 3 & Knuckles (of Mike Tyson)

 

[Mansta]

It turns out instead of it being the control's fault I'm just awful at Rivals, who would have thought.

 

[mimgrim]

Reminds me. mimgrim I'm playing KH: Chain of Memories!

I'm on the Atlantica (or something) part with Aerial (how spell?)

Atlantica is right and her name is spelled Ariel.

Chain of Memories is also the worst KH entry in the series. :< Mostly because of the gameplay (I so ****ing hate the card system).

 

[Lizalfos]

Listening to Professor Layton music makes homework fun.
"A phase diagram for dry ice? That reminds me of a splendid puzzle."

 

[Bleck]

Speaking of, what do you think about the shieldstun increase?

It seems like the intent was to make a global change that will make a larger chunk of attacks safer on shield, hypothetically skewing the metagame slightly towards characters that at this point are underappreciated, which is good, I think? On the other hand, it seems like a few characters (Yoshi, for example) also benefit highly from it, so it's probably not gonna change everything as much as we hope?

I think it's a good change, but I think the more egregious "top tier" characters need to be toned down a bit. Sheik, ZSS and Yoshi come to mind (I would have also said Luigi had they not just nerfed his down throw).

 

[Lizalfos]

Think how much better Fox and Falco are now tho.

 

[Giygacoal]

Atlantica is right and her name is spelled Ariel.

Chain of Memories is also the worst KH entry in the series. :< Mostly because of the gameplay (I so ****ing hate the card system).

I actually appreciate Chain of Memories as an experiment in game design, and it seems to be the precursor to the deck system in BBS.

 

[mimgrim]

I actually appreciate Chain of Memories as an experiment in game design, and it seems to be the precursor to the deck system in BBS.

It isn't really anything like the deck system (which is actually good) though lol.

I'll admit it was a neat idea, at the very least.

But they failed horribly in the execution.

 

[Giygacoal]

It isn't really anything like the deck system (which is actually good) though lol.

I'll admit it was a neat idea, at the very least.

But they failed horribly in the execution.

Yeah, but I mean it's as if the meeting went "Hey, we did that thing that should have worked better than we had in mind... Let's try that again... sort of!"
I think it was a fair attempt at a pre-KH2 on the GBA (not that approaching GBA was such a brilliant idea).

 

[trash?]

https://www.reddit.com/r/SSBM/comments/3n1kgf/new_global_technique_discovery_vcanceling_reduce/

14 years

 

[Bleck]

5% ha ha ha

 

[Lizalfos]

https://www.reddit.com/r/SSBM/comments/3n1kgf/new_global_technique_discovery_vcanceling_reduce/

14 years

Not air parry.
Lame party game.

5% ha ha ha

Is a significant edge for something easy to do.

 

[Bleck]

we must be operating on different meanings of the word significant

 

[PMS | Tink-er]

we must be operating on different meanings of the word significant

i would call .05% statistically significant

 

[teluoborg]

Let's be honest here.

The only true block strings that Shulk can do from an aerial requires MALLC (as shown in this video), which is super situational, especially so if your opponent knows what MALLC is to begin with. In addition, in order to actually induce enough shield damage to do a shield break, in most cases the Monado needs to be in buster mode, which unfortunately not only makes MALLC harder but also much easier for the opponent to see coming. Otherwise, Bair (or any other aerial for that matter) is not safe on shield even with the added shield stun (sans characters that have high traction like Luigi, which is unrelated to the shield stun buff) without MALLC, making this shield break combo extremely unlikely and sub-optimal. This game has almost been out for a year and I still have yet to see people even getting close to using MALLC as a viable strategy to begin with.

And even if this was somehow a slight buff to Shulk, it doesn't change the fact that other characters will benefit from this change much more than he will, meaning that, relatively speaking, Shulk will actually be nerfed, especially considering that Shulk has pretty ****ty defensive options out of shield already.

Until I actually see an in-game example of someone using the added shield-stun to benefit Shulk, I have doubts that this shield stun mechanic actually helps him in the long run.

chill man I only posted the twit for comedic purposes, not to show you the future of metagaming.
And even without Mallc purple Bair is probably -6/7 on shield now which given its range makes it safe. Not enough to make a blockstring out of it but completely enough to stay unpunished.

Also technically if your character already had bad oos options before the patch then you're not losing much compared to what you're gaining.

 

[Giygacoal]

Off-topic but most people in my friend group use "literally" as a filler word and that gets annoying.

 

[Muscle_Senpai]

Although it may only be 5% and won't be properly executed by everyone just think about how certain characters might have better survival chance depending on the stage. May not seem that big to you but it will cause combos to lose their strength at certain %s.

 

[trash?]

I mean, I can at least see one INCREDIBLY IMPORTANT use, which is vs. fox's uair, and any new mechanic that makes fox have to at least try a little more as a result is a good thing

 

[PMS | Tink-er]

i wobble people in melee. this does not effect ICs punish game.

 

[CORY]

i would call .05% statistically significant

.05% is a fifth twentieth of a percent, homie.

 

[Bleck]

I mean, I can at least see one INCREDIBLY IMPORTANT use, which is vs. fox's uair, and any new mechanic that makes fox have to at least try a little more as a result is a good thing

being a global thing means that all characters have to try a little more - a nerf to fox doesn't really hold much weight if it also nerfs everyone else at the same time

 

[Bazkip]

.05% is a fifth twentieth of a percent, homie.

He was trying to make a joke referring to the standard p-value used when measuring statistical significance but messed up and wrote 0.05% instead of just 0.05

PMS | Tink-er you're bad at science

 

[trash?]

I mean yeah, you have a point, but one of the major things is that you have to be in the air (and I think out of hitstun? because it shows all the working aerial states, and hitstunned is its own state last I remember) for it to work, meaning it'll inevitably favor characters like jigglypuff who are always in the air and, beyond a fox uthrow conversion, never really gets combo'd, whereas post-neutral, fox is often either a) in hitstun in the air or b) already on the ground, because he's a fast faller and thus doesn't really have much time in the air where he isn't hitstunned

I'm not like, trying to imply fox still isn't the best, but I'd think it's a safe bet to assume this works more for characters around fox more than it works for fox, long-term

kadano showing off fox's usmash post-VI (velocity influence??? it's that or velocity-cancelling, it's 50/50 on twitter lmao), marth now lasts up to 110% in the air

 

[Bleck]

I'm looking forward to seeing whether or not this has any meaningful impact on the metagame beyond people being able to survive fox a few percents longer, but I'm not holding my breath

what I'm interested in hearing more about is why it happens, like is this some kind of bug or was this maybe intentional for some reason

 

[Soft Serve]

I'm looking forward to seeing whether or not this has any meaningful impact on the metagame beyond people being able to survive fox a few percents longer, but I'm not holding my breath

what I'm interested in hearing more about is why it happens, like is this some kind of bug or was this maybe intentional for some reason

its hard coded into the game at 5%, Achilles only found it because he was digging through melee data with a hex editor.

Theres no depth to it, its just another thing you should always be doing in that situation to optimize it. Just another dumb element to the game so that people can go "Look, we keep finding cool new things for this 14 year old game, its perfect." when it really doesn't add any depth or anything really other than barriers in execution/knowledge. Its niche, pretty interesting, but at the end of the day there's still only 5 good characters, another 5 okay ones, and many piles of garbage.

 

[SpiderMad]

its hard coded into the game at 5%, Achilles only found it because he was digging through melee data with a hex editor.

Theres no depth to it, its just another thing you should always be doing in that situation to optimize it. Just another dumb element to the game so that people can go "Look, we keep finding cool new things for this 14 year old game, its perfect." when it really doesn't add any depth or anything really other than barriers in execution/knowledge. Its niche, pretty interesting, but at the end of the day there's still only 5 good characters, another 5 okay ones, and many piles of garbage.

You risk missing tech or causing air dodge, so going for it can be calculated.

 

[Soft Serve]

I'm looking forward to seeing whether or not this has any meaningful impact on the metagame beyond people being able to survive fox a few percents longer, but I'm not holding my breath

what I'm interested in hearing more about is why it happens, like is this some kind of bug or was this maybe intentional for some reason

In a more broad application, it is if you get hit out of the frames of air-dodge before invincibility, you take less knock-back. It seems to carry over to actions you couldn't air dodge out of, like tumble or special fall, just because it does.

You risk missing tech or causing air dodge, so going for it can be calculated.

seems ridiculous to assume people will try to start baiting it out in attempts to prevent people from reducing velocity by 5%. The tech situation is legit, although technically we've been doing this already when we get hit going for a tech. Just seems needless/pointless/unnecessarily precise for just a small, barely tangible reward. But Melee is perfect and everything we find is positive

 

[Bazkip]

Soft Serve it's possible for someone to think they're about to get hit, press shield but then not get hit for whatever reason, and thus end up air dodging when they didn't intend to. I imagine that's the situation SpiderMad is referring to.

 

[SpiderMad]

seems ridiculous to assume people will try to start baiting it out in attempts to prevent people from reducing velocity by 5%. The tech situation is legit, although technically we've been doing this already when we get hit going for a tech. Just seems needless/pointless/unnecessarily precise for just a small, barely tangible reward. But Melee is perfect and everything we find is positive

Unnecessarily precise for a barely tangible reward? Well dang son, that sure doesn't make sense.

Minor things like this are part of the magic of Melee where there's always hope in surviving.

https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/2oiaky/shortened_and_reversed_vanish
https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/2scqmd/new_fox_tech_apparently_fox_can_sweet_spot_under/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E2cOUEL9uic
https://youtu.be/WMpUymqNkag?t=1127
https://youtu.be/ZkdPVUlrSOo?t=962
http://smashboards.com/threads/reve...coveries-video-included.273278/#post-10179915 <- Characters like Marth have "aim" frames, resulting in slightly more forward Up-b if desired
http://smashboards.com/threads/reve...es-video-included.273278/page-2#post-18139367 Walls required to turn Up-b around
https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/2two27/fox_and_falco_sideb_lengths_and_timings/co31dmz The multiple shortens with one being 1 frame lenient

 

[Bazkip]

This might be the first thing I ever back on Kickstarter
Best $20 I'll ever spend

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/stevelichman/steve-lichman-volume-1