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Project M Social Thread Gold

Kaye Cruiser

Kaye Cruiser

Waveshocker Sigma
Joined
Aug 11, 2009
Messages
8,032
NNID
KayeCruiser
Switch FC
0740-7501-7043
Paradoxium said:
Squirtle isn't even close to being bad, wtf
Click to expand...

Fighting against Squirtle is really annoying as hell and therefore, the character is automatically downright bad.

-eats more of this deliciously salty chicken-
 
Kaye Cruiser

Kaye Cruiser

Waveshocker Sigma
Joined
Aug 11, 2009
Messages
8,032
NNID
KayeCruiser
Switch FC
0740-7501-7043
Paradoxium said:
Bro I'm eating salty chicken too, thank god there's a Popeyes within walking distance I'm too lucky
Click to expand...
I feel like you intentionally missed the joke, but I'll let it slide cause Popeye's even though that's not the chicken I'm eating. ¦D
 
Paradoxium

Paradoxium

Smash Master
Joined
Sep 7, 2012
Messages
3,019
Location
New Sand Fall
Kaye Cruiser said:
I feel like you intentionally missed the joke, but I'll let it slide cause Popeye's even though that's not the chicken I'm eating. ¦D
Click to expand...
I didn't get the joke at all, I'm just sitting here enjoying my fried chicken and I thought someone else might have been enjoying some too. But if it was a joke than I guess that sucks for you cus this chicken is OFF THE CHAIN
 
Lizalfos

Lizalfos

Smash Master
Joined
Dec 30, 2013
Messages
3,483
Location
Greenville, SC
Vashimus said:
I was going to reserve my judgment on this until I actually played through the Zora sections myself on MM3D. Now that I have, I can safely say the change to the Zora swimming was a bad one.

So, sperg time it is.

I think most people can agree that Zora Link has some of the best swimming controls ever put in a video game. There are very few underwater sections in games can match the sheer fun and usefulness of that mask. It certainly wasn't perfect -- the super-fast Zora swimming wasn't the best for maneuvering around solid obstacles or very tight spaces, leading to more than a few head-bumps. So of course slowing the swimming down makes sense. It makes it easier to traverse those areas without getting frustrated. For people who couldn't adjust to the original speed, they appreciate the slow-down. And for people who liked it, torpedo-speed is still there with R. Problem is it uses magic, so going full-speed is entirely dependent on how much magic you have. While this does get solved by just coughing up the dough for a Chateau Romani, the fact that it takes magic in the first place goes against the entire design of the swimming areas.

Zora Link is a transformation that's pretty limited in its uses; although not quite to the extent of the Deku, he still only really shines in underwater areas. All of those water sections either involve

A: Large, deep bodies of water to traverse though (Great Bay, outside Pirate's Fortress, Pinnacle Rock)
B: Long, narrow tunnels that require little maneuvering whatsoever (Beaver race, Zora Moon Dungeon, Ikana River etc.)
C: Mix of both (Great Bay and Stone Tower Temple)

Just going through them one by one, it's clear the underwater regions were specifically designed with Zora Link's torpedo-speed swimming in mind. At full speed, Zora Link can cross vast bodies of water with ease, and quickly as well. When in narrow tunnels, he can jet his way through, and his mobility ensures you're not going to hit anything as long as you're paying attention. For C, it can get a bit tricky as you're combining multiple skills (dolphin jump in Stone Tower for the key, anyone?), but since they're mainly found in dungeons, those kinds of challenges should be expected.

Making Zora Link swim slower completely clashes with the design of the swimmable areas, as they were made in a time where they expected you to be able to swim at full speed whenever. Yes, it offers you greater control, but the times where it's really needed are few and far between. When you're just trying to get from point A to B like the majority of water sections, the slower swimming just makes it a massive chore, and thus takes away from the player enjoyment. No one is going to swim across Great Bay in regular speed if they can help it. It takes way too long in a game where time is already of the essence. Getting the Zora eggs? Much more tedious having to cross those large bodies of water multiple times.

"But hey! That's why they put the fast swim on R, right?? You can just go fast whenever you want!!"
Except you need magic.

"Just buy a Chateau Romani or stock up on green potions and bam, problem solved."
That's the problem. Magic now becomes a necessity when using Zora Link, as the game punishes you if you don't, with lengthy swims that eat up the hours of the Termina day, not taking into account other things I may need magic for. In MM, you could use your magic however you wanted: conservatively, aggressively, or not at all. By tying the turbo-swim to the shield, you're now forcing me to use magic on a regular basis as the Zora if I want to escape the boredom of the normal swimming.

"Well the Goron uses magic to spike roll and move at fast speeds, so it's only fair the Zora has that restriction."
You'd have a point if Epona and the Bunny Hood weren't in the game, two other means of fast travel on land not counting SoS, so you didn't have to use him if you didn't want to. The areas where Goron roll is required are no problem either because it uses so little magic in comparison, and when using him in Termina Field he can just roll over bushes and easily refill his stock. Swimming as a Zora is your main method of traversing water regions, and usually the only effective one. There's no reason to make going faster come at a penalty.

"Just hating on the game because of one change, wtf just play the original"
What, I can't enjoy the remake too? I've wanted it for a while, and this is the only glaring change in the whole game I don't like. There are so many improvements made, but the swimming there just bothers the hell out of me. I'd would've appreciated being given the option to choose your preferred swim controls in the options menu. Then everyone would've been happy.

Despite all that ranting about one damn mechanic, trust me, I love MM3D. It's better in virtually every way. Buuuuut I'll keep the Virtual Console download on my Wii also.

Now time to sl-zzzzzzZZZzzzzZZZzzz......
Click to expand...
I like it when things use magic because potions aren't useless. Potions are a good money sink and that's why you should always play on hero mode.
 
Lizalfos

Lizalfos

Smash Master
Joined
Dec 30, 2013
Messages
3,483
Location
Greenville, SC
Gamegenie222 said:
Pretty much how I feel with all the melee top heads who never played Fox switching to Fox like Armada. This will be me when PPMD goes 20xx and plays Fox and I been down this road with DEHF went Diddy in Smash 4 and now Fox leaving the bird behind :( .
Click to expand...
Why would PP play Fox when he has a Falco and Marth?
 
Kaye Cruiser

Kaye Cruiser

Waveshocker Sigma
Joined
Aug 11, 2009
Messages
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Welp, time to read the latest Sonic issues finally. I'm looking forward to it for this panel alone.



God, I've loved these comics so much more since the reboot from a year or two ago. <3
 
PlateProp

PlateProp

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Joined
Mar 15, 2014
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4,149
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San Antonio
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Genericality
3DS FC
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Paradoxium said:
But why would you intentionally choose to play a bad character, and then go online and complain about how bad that character is?
Click to expand...
"Complain"

It's really sad that out of all of you Kaye and Softie are the only ones who get it
 
Last edited:
robosteven

robosteven

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 14, 2007
Messages
1,181
Location
MA
NNID
robosteven
Paradoxium said:
But why would you intentionally choose to play a bad character, and then go online and complain about how bad that character is?
Click to expand...
because he's almost good but his small number of problems singlehandedly make him terrible.

I know you weren't talking to me but this comment is targeted at me by default.
 
teluoborg

teluoborg

Smash Otter
Joined
Mar 12, 2008
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4,060
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Paris, France
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teloutre
Vashimus said:
I was going to reserve my judgment on this until I actually played through the Zora sections myself on MM3D. Now that I have, I can safely say the change to the Zora swimming was a bad one.

So, sperg time it is.

I think most people can agree that Zora Link has some of the best swimming controls ever put in a video game. There are very few underwater sections in games can match the sheer fun and usefulness of that mask. It certainly wasn't perfect -- the super-fast Zora swimming wasn't the best for maneuvering around solid obstacles or very tight spaces, leading to more than a few head-bumps. So of course slowing the swimming down makes sense. It makes it easier to traverse those areas without getting frustrated. For people who couldn't adjust to the original speed, they appreciate the slow-down. And for people who liked it, torpedo-speed is still there with R. Problem is it uses magic, so going full-speed is entirely dependent on how much magic you have. While this does get solved by just coughing up the dough for a Chateau Romani, the fact that it takes magic in the first place goes against the entire design of the swimming areas.

Zora Link is a transformation that's pretty limited in its uses; although not quite to the extent of the Deku, he still only really shines in underwater areas. All of those water sections either involve

A: Large, deep bodies of water to traverse though (Great Bay, outside Pirate's Fortress, Pinnacle Rock)
B: Long, narrow tunnels that require little maneuvering whatsoever (Beaver race, Zora Moon Dungeon, Ikana River etc.)
C: Mix of both (Great Bay and Stone Tower Temple)

Just going through them one by one, it's clear the underwater regions were specifically designed with Zora Link's torpedo-speed swimming in mind. At full speed, Zora Link can cross vast bodies of water with ease, and quickly as well. When in narrow tunnels, he can jet his way through, and his mobility ensures you're not going to hit anything as long as you're paying attention. For C, it can get a bit tricky as you're combining multiple skills (dolphin jump in Stone Tower for the key, anyone?), but since they're mainly found in dungeons, those kinds of challenges should be expected.

Making Zora Link swim slower completely clashes with the design of the swimmable areas, as they were made in a time where they expected you to be able to swim at full speed whenever. Yes, it offers you greater control, but the times where it's really needed are few and far between. When you're just trying to get from point A to B like the majority of water sections, the slower swimming just makes it a massive chore, and thus takes away from the player enjoyment. No one is going to swim across Great Bay in regular speed if they can help it. It takes way too long in a game where time is already of the essence. Getting the Zora eggs? Much more tedious having to cross those large bodies of water multiple times.

"But hey! That's why they put the fast swim on R, right?? You can just go fast whenever you want!!"
Except you need magic.

"Just buy a Chateau Romani or stock up on green potions and bam, problem solved."
That's the problem. Magic now becomes a necessity when using Zora Link, as the game punishes you if you don't, with lengthy swims that eat up the hours of the Termina day, not taking into account other things I may need magic for. In MM, you could use your magic however you wanted: conservatively, aggressively, or not at all. By tying the turbo-swim to the shield, you're now forcing me to use magic on a regular basis as the Zora if I want to escape the boredom of the normal swimming.

"Well the Goron uses magic to spike roll and move at fast speeds, so it's only fair the Zora has that restriction."
You'd have a point if Epona and the Bunny Hood weren't in the game, two other means of fast travel on land not counting SoS, so you didn't have to use him if you didn't want to. The areas where Goron roll is required are no problem either because it uses so little magic in comparison, and when using him in Termina Field he can just roll over bushes and easily refill his stock. Swimming as a Zora is your main method of traversing water regions, and usually the only effective one. There's no reason to make going faster come at a penalty.

"Just hating on the game because of one change, wtf just play the original"
What, I can't enjoy the remake too? I've wanted it for a while, and this is the only glaring change in the whole game I don't like. There are so many improvements made, but the swimming there just bothers the hell out of me. I'd would've appreciated being given the option to choose your preferred swim controls in the options menu. Then everyone would've been happy.

Despite all that ranting about one damn mechanic, trust me, I love MM3D. It's better in virtually every way. Buuuuut I'll keep the Virtual Console download on my Wii also.

Now time to sl-zzzzzzZZZzzzzZZZzzz......
Click to expand...
My thoughts exactly. If only those skeleton fishes gave you magic pots or something, even the pudi pudis but nooooooooo, let's just have you wait half a dayt before you can fully utilize that mask.

Well at least it has a solution (based Romani) or you can simply spam R while being oom and it still goes fast so I can keep my autism under control.
What makes me mad tho is that rolling/twirling doesn't give you instant max speed anymore. That made the swamp/Mojo parts hell for me. Like come on was it that terrible ? Why take this away while letting the bunny mask bug in the wind fish song ?
 
Soft Serve

Soft Serve

softie
Premium
Joined
Dec 7, 2011
Messages
4,164
Location
AZ
Mariotehplumber said:
He is not overrated he is awesome.
Click to expand...
Doc in melee is really really cool, and has cool things, like up-b cancels and sh instant Bair waveland. But he's horrible. The only thing making him better than Mario is that pills help him more in the Marth/Puff MU. Mario already does slightly better vs spacies/falcon/shiek (DJ Nintendo things Mario beats shiek 55-45 in Melee), the speed and better recovery helps so much, and against non floaties, not having the dthrow fair kill setup doesn't matter because he just dthrow fsmash or upair>fsmash or tech chase Dsmash for his kills.

Doc is really bad in melee lol.
 
Saxophoneoftime

Saxophoneoftime

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 18, 2012
Messages
1,454
Location
MI
Coffee_dad is honestly the best Twitter account there is. All he posts about is him getting coffee.



How could you not love this
 
Mariotehplumber

Mariotehplumber

Banned via Warnings
Joined
Jul 16, 2014
Messages
213
Location
Canada
NNID
JohnMTP
ImG | PF | Softie said:
Doc in melee is really really cool, and has cool things, like up-b cancels and sh instant Bair waveland. But he's horrible. The only thing making him better than Mario is that pills help him more in the Marth/Puff MU. Mario already does slightly better vs spacies/falcon/shiek (DJ Nintendo things Mario beats shiek 55-45 in Melee), the speed and better recovery helps so much, and against non floaties, not having the dthrow fair kill setup doesn't matter because he just dthrow fsmash or upair>fsmash or tech chase Dsmash for his kills.

Doc is really bad in melee lol.
Click to expand...
He takes more skill to win though which gives more bragging rights when using him.
 
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