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Project M Social Thread Gold

PlateProp

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@ Strong Badam Strong Badam @ Hylian Hylian @Umbreon
Have you read this post yet? I'm curious to hear your thoughts and opinions, because I think it's one of the most well-thought out posts that I've seen on Smashboards for a long time.
I still don't get why people say Melee is like jazz

It's honestly more like someone took a bass guitar and scraped their nails across it while it was connected to an a (read: sound like ass)

Dem controlls be way too gross

Real talk tho, I would say PM/Melee was more of an electronic nature. But I think the only people that could understand the way I see it is if they can perceive sound in three dimentions
 

Comeback Kid

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I don't think it's right to compare Melee to music you only half pay attention to while falling asleep (yes I have) when there are other Smash games that fit the bill. :tired:
 

robosteven

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if Smash is jazz

and traditional fighters is like rock or classical or whatever

Skullgirls is progressive dreamfunk
 

Comeback Kid

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It's just the same tired concept that jazz is all about improvisation while other musical genres are all about keeping to form but made into a fighting game comparison.
 

Empyrean

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I actually once compared smash to a canvas, dunno what I said exactly, was trying to explain **** to some casuals
TL;DR: never explain **** to casuals, just play
 

SpiderMad

Smash Master
Joined
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Messages
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My left thumb doesn't move fast enough or accurately enough on the 3DS Control stick
my left hand is a pleb. it doesn't have fast enough speeds or precision.

I played lefty on guitar hero because my left hand couldn't press the buttons fast enough.
I write left handed and play instruments lefty, but I throw right handed. I want to say my Right hand would be faster for this supposed 3ds control stick movement, but my left hand might just be fatigued lol.

I don't think it's right to compare Melee to music you only half pay attention to while falling asleep (yes I have) when there are other Smash games that fit the bill. :tired:
Nothing deserves to be compared to Melee. The closest things are the good songs people used in good combo videos. Each combo video with a good song highlights certain aspects of Melee and that person's play with the song.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MPlP4zvX0lQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o8srtrJdf5c
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GdMA9wSDFUc

But I just love compilations in general
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZxwvh0hu3A#t=215
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4qYr13bLv80&list=PLovBMkMLex7y0xboPZJ8ZALzhluFPH3AN

@ SpiderMad SpiderMad , had an opportunity to play for a bit last night. I have to say the only thing that is difficult about the sh-bair --> dj 2x bair is the pre-requisite QuickDraw-->rar, I swear I can't seem to avoid c-sticking the jump direction instead of the early bair lol, it feels easier to do in this version XD Then again I only had the opportunity to mess around for like a half hour, still it is kind of cool to input a full-momentum rar with the c-stick.
Are you able to record your TV? Where you able to get it? I want you to do and record this, and you don't even have to QD first if you feel that's the hard part: SH Bair DJ Bair Nair Bair (getting the hitbox out) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0gBDctEu8Hg#t=208

I don't use the C-stick for the first early aerial, unless it doesn't require to be super early like Falco's Bair.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IeLklmmYyNk#t=46

I don't understand how you're getting trouble with the QD rar with your wording/explanation.
 
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Hinichii.ez.™

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I write left handed and play instruments lefty, but I throw right handed. I want to say my Right hand would be faster for this supposed 3ds control stick movement, but my left hand might just be fatigued lol.


Nothing deserves to be compared to Melee. The closest things are the good songs people used in good combo videos. Each combo video with a good song highlights certain aspects of Melee and that person's play with the song.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MPlP4zvX0lQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o8srtrJdf5c
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GdMA9wSDFUc

But I just love compilations in general
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZxwvh0hu3A#t=215
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4qYr13bLv80&list=PLovBMkMLex7y0xboPZJ8ZALzhluFPH3AN


Are you able to record your TV? Where you able to get it? I want you to do and record this, and you don't even have to QD first if you feel that's the hard part: SH Bair DJ Bair Nair Bair (getting the hitbox out) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0gBDctEu8Hg#t=208

I don't use the C-stick for the first early aerial, unless it doesn't require to be super early like Falco's Bair.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IeLklmmYyNk#t=46

I don't understand how you're getting trouble with the QD rar with your wording/explanation.
If you don't jump on skype
I will kill U
 

Hylian

Not even death can save you from me
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@ Strong Badam Strong Badam @ Hylian Hylian @Umbreon
Have you read this post yet? I'm curious to hear your thoughts and opinions, because I think it's one of the most well-thought out posts that I've seen on Smashboards for a long time.
It was very well written and captured a lot of melee players emotions in a way they may not know how to express properly. I enjoyed the read.
 

Zoa

Smash Ace
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Mar 18, 2009
Messages
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Any other fellow Hyrule Warriors players get the DLC yet? Twili Midna is incredible. One of my absolute favorite characters now. Also hope you all have a happier Thanksgiving for fellow Americans. I gotta work a ten hour shift at my restaurant next to a Wal-mart that's having Black Friday, and a mall down the road. Whoopdee do.
 

HyperrCrow

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Ayo @ SpiderMad SpiderMad send me some of those challenges you like to give people for PM. I recently got my capture card working again and want to try to do some of those things, it'll greatly help out my execution.
 

Bleck

Smash Master
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Messages
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"dribbling is a thing in basketball for basically no reason" ~ some nerd that doesn't know anything about basketball
 

GHNeko

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I hope you weren't with annoying family members, like I was.
I was with 2 cats and my wife.

You think that's bad?

Try playing COD in lag

That will make you question your humanity
>playing COD

im questioning you right now

as well as judging.

"dribbling is a thing in basketball for basically no reason" ~ some nerd that doesn't know anything about basketball

OH HERE IT GOES

PLEASE BLECK.

SINCE YOU SEEM TO KNOW

EXPLAIN HOW HE IS INCORRECT
 
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PMS | Tink-er

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Wasn't dribbling invented because basketball is the sport of passing the ball and you can't move whilst holding the ball so lmao **** the rules I'm gonna pass the ball to myself over and over again. I mean I have absolutely no interest in physical sports where the meta game is defined by having good gear and using steroids to train harder and there's no development to the meta ever, but that seems like a fundamental middle finger to the original rules, not a development.
 
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Bleck

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Messages
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Basketball's origins are as a basket-oriented version of handball; the only way to advance the ball was to pass to other players, as moving with the ball in hand wasn't allowed.

The basic rules came from the idea that a) sports like football or American football were too rough for an indoor environment, and b) letting players move with the ball tended to force strategy to revolve around giving the fastest or strongest player the ball and defending them. Making the focus of the game passing in between players forced all players to be coordinated at all times, and to work with each other in a manner in which all players are of the same value.

Players decided to "pass to themselves" in games, using a bounce pass - this forced players who wanted to move with the ball to have an extra, specific kind of coordination, ensuring that team-based play wouldn't suffer if an individual player was allowed to move with the ball (as unlike things like strength or speed, manipulating the ball is a skill). The rules were eventually solidified in that players weren't allowed to move after ceasing an initial movement, so that teamwork and individual coordination are as important as each other.

I admire the poster's passion, but sports and games don't usually have rules "just because". The idea of entry-barrier mechanics like l-canceling - "it's here just to make it harder" - is something unique to video games, and are always very poorly justified.
 
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SpiderMad

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Messages
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Ayo @ SpiderMad SpiderMad send me some of those challenges you like to give people for PM. I recently got my capture card working again and want to try to do some of those things, it'll greatly help out my execution.
K be sure to upload'em sometime this year

QD RAR SH Bair DJ Bair Nair Bair (getting the hitbox out) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0gBDctEu8Hg#t=208

Yoshis: Wolf FH Blaster WL Blaster WL https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0gBDctEu8Hg&list=UUC_duOivBOekU6LS3_8w25A#t=16

3.02 List, one or two may not still work
http://smashboards.com/threads/project-m-social-thread-v3-5.339825/page-803#post-17098767

I think they ruined my Sonic one in 3.5 =/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IsW8TapgnBE

@1FD Did you get the d-tilt Forward Hold Back Dash to work?

@Ripple Did you record the demonstration of Marth not getting perfect wavelands at Exposure?
 
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Soft Serve

softie
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It just hit me that I couldn't get side-b attack>falling uair to work on my roommate's wario because Diddy's release point is character dependent, based on their height. I knew it was a thing because I do it do his zard all the time but my god do I feel really really stupid now.
Almost as stupid as forgetting popgun>instant AGT of the peanut was a thing till mad told me last night.

Diddy's moonwalk is so god damn amazing, and so are his ledge wavelands. This character is too good.


my ex keeps sending me texts, and its taking all my will power to stop myself from just telling her to **** off.
 

Lizalfos

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Sorry to ruin your fun, but I was thinking that maybe what happened in Ferguson doesn't primarily represent racism in America, but perhaps a greater problem in the US.

The absurdity of the American criminal justice system. How we have the largest incarcerated population in the world. How the system is stacked against the accused in many ways due to the heavy over legislation. The quantity of the laws isn't the only problem though, it is how loosely they are written, in the end judges are defining the laws based on case by case situations that might not reflect the original intent of the legislation.

What Ferguson demonstrates is that police, as part of the system, also get a special kind of protection. If I remember correctly, in recent history there have been 14 killings of unarmed civilians in Missouri by law enforcement. None of these cases were investigated.

So what we see is a vicious criminal justice system for everyone and police brutality that goes unchecked.

Is the situation worse for people of color? I'd say yes, but I feel like this conversation isn't primarily about race because not all of the 14 unarmed people killed by police were African American.

Even if race is the primary issue, why ignore the massive secondary issue? That there are no legal systems in place to protect you from police brutality or the tyranny of the legal system.

Edit: Is Falco's moonwalk any good? I think that I saw PPMD using it at SKTAR3 vs Mango Winners Finals.
Edit2: @ Bleck Bleck you are right about dribbling. There are situations to not L-cancel and L-canceling has some counter play with shield angles.
 
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SpiderMad

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It just hit me that I couldn't get side-b attack>falling uair to work on my roommate's wario because Diddy's release point is character dependent, based on their height. I knew it was a thing because I do it do his zard all the time but my god do I feel really really stupid now.
Almost as stupid as forgetting popgun>instant AGT of the peanut was a thing till mad told me last night.

Diddy's moonwalk is so god damn amazing, and so are his ledge wavelands. This character is too good.


my ex keeps sending me texts, and its taking all my will power to stop myself from just telling her to **** off.
Yeah lack of another Banana is gonna make use of the peanuts. Look at this though lol http://smashboards.com/threads/heads-up.380020

Diddy has a lot of ledge options

Look at this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jn5spvHUGQo&list=UUC_duOivBOekU6LS3_8w25A#t=23

Look at this crazy Brawl stuff (I'm not done gathering them all again, like the WJ B-reverse Banana, but people should watch a ton of ADHD matches in the first place)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cXZrOcmg4O0#t=123

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gfBt_EZsEf4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=12tLH7wCwq8#t=782

Notice the SH Bair AD Banana Catch, same as in PM but it's gonna be a WL
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cXZrOcmg4O0#t=962
And the SH Bair Platform Banana Catch, we can pry AGT
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cXZrOcmg4O0#t=996

Don't go for this a lot
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F8wwr693KDo#t=153
Because it can be punished sometimes
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ukqll54ewcY#t=86

Look at this SH Double bair
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cXZrOcmg4O0#t=977
Now look at in PM, still there just harder
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EVQDFfwxAi4
Same with AC Fair
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cXZrOcmg4O0#t=1098

Look at Vro do this SH Bair Uair
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H7a1U1UfrNw#t=222

Look at M2K escape this combo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_wFYbhaaUQ0&list=UUC_duOivBOekU6LS3_8w25A#t=955

Analyze these double aerials
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uj6qxfqx8GI#t=22

RIP Upsmash
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nGBfvwXeeuc

Edit: Is Falco's moonwalk any good? I think that I saw PPMD using it at SKTAR3 vs Mango Winners Finals.
Him and Samus can both multi-walk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJDkfjFr1F0#t=106
Also Mango was going over all about Spacie MWs being "****" but I don't have all my mango uploads memorized yet to link you
 
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SpiderMad

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Messages
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Multi-walking sounds cool, but I have no idea what you actually mean by that.
What's your guess after viewing the video. I just made up the term, more like Multi-MW.

People are watching the videos right lol
 
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Strong Badam

Super Elite
Administrator
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l-canceling really doesn't have counterplay. angling your shield does not change the window by 6 frames in any case, so their timing can simply account for all shield angle possibilities. the number of situations that l-canceling is NOT The best situation is less than 0.1%, as well, so you're justifying the mechanic by a thread and nothing more. the increased accessibility of smash where l-canceling just happens by the game is far more valuable than whatever minuscule "added depth" there is from l-canceling being manual.
 

Soft Serve

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Yeah lack of another Banana is gonna make use of the peanuts. Look at this though lol http://smashboards.com/threads/heads-up.380020

Diddy has a lot of ledge options

Look at this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jn5spvHUGQo&list=UUC_duOivBOekU6LS3_8w25A#t=23

Look at this crazy Brawl stuff (I'm not done gathering them all again, like the WJ B-reverse Banana, but people should watch a ton of ADHD matches in the first place)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cXZrOcmg4O0#t=123

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gfBt_EZsEf4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=12tLH7wCwq8#t=782

Notice the SH Bair AD Banana Catch, same as in PM but it's gonna be a WL
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cXZrOcmg4O0#t=962
And the SH Bair Platform Banana Catch, we can pry AGT
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cXZrOcmg4O0#t=996

Don't go for this a lot
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F8wwr693KDo#t=153
Because it can be punished sometimes
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ukqll54ewcY#t=86

Look at this SH Double bair
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cXZrOcmg4O0#t=977
Now look at in PM, still there just harder
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EVQDFfwxAi4
Same with AC Fair
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cXZrOcmg4O0#t=1098

Look at Vro do this SH Bair Uair
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H7a1U1UfrNw#t=222

Look at M2K escape this combo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_wFYbhaaUQ0&list=UUC_duOivBOekU6LS3_8w25A#t=955

Analyze these double aerials
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uj6qxfqx8GI#t=22

RIP Upsmash
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nGBfvwXeeuc


Him and Samus can both multi-walk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJDkfjFr1F0#t=106
Also Mango was going over all about Spacie MWs being "****" but I don't have all my mango uploads memorized yet to link you
I'll get on watching these videos soon.

I'm doing aerials on shield stuff right now, Diddy has a lot of cool options for shield pressure. they're not perfect but only off by a frame or two, not 100% sure if all of them were fresh.
All strong hits
Dair: 7 hitlag, 9 shieldstun, -4 on shield (hit last airborne frame
Fair:8 lag, 8 stun, -6 on shield
Nair: 7 lag, 7 stun, -3
Bair: 7 lag, 7 stun, -2
Uair: 7 lag, 7 stun -3

Banana tosses look like they have basically the same shield data fresh, they do 6.5% and 8% so I guess the math just works out so that weak tosses and smash tosses are the same. Haven't really tested it when its stale, because all item tosses stale together, and its not the banana but the throwing itself that goes stale. Once they start doing like, 4-5 dmg its not as great.
These are weird too because the banana and diddy dont go into hitlag, only the person shielding, so I think the hitlags are basically more sheild stun unless I'm being stupid.
Banana on shield: 5 hitlag, 5 shieldstun. All tosses -9 on shield, running toss -29 on shield (these are messing me up, dont know if I should include hitlag. Also, these are implying that the frame the banana leave diddy's hand is when it hits shield, which is never really what happens).
Edit edit: Still cant do math/count frames correctly. Tosses should only be -3/4 at point blank, running toss - 23/24, confident on it this time.

But whats litterally insane, and I've been saying this for a while, is how stupid z-dropping bananas on shield is. Diddy and the Banana dont go into hitlag. I've been saying this for at least 10 months, but now I have the frame data to prove it.
Zdrop bananas are +5 on shield fresh, man. Diddy 2 broke
^^^^^ edit for clarity: They are +10 because 10 frames of shieldstun, but if you want your ground options you have to drop it 1 frame above the ground, then have 4 frames of regular landing lag.

We're highjacking the Social thread, because we talk more about diddy here than the diddy boards are active
 
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Strong Badam

Super Elite
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please say shiedstun instead of hitstun when referring to hitting a shield, also your "shieldstun" values are actually hitlag + shieldstun.
for future reference:
(damage + 4.45)/2.235, round down for shieldstun
 

Soft Serve

softie
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please say shiedstun instead of hitstun when referring to hitting a shield, also your "shieldstun" values are actually hitlag + shieldstun.
for future reference:
(damage + 4.45)/2.235, round down for shieldstun
Yeah those were all just me typing in hitstun instead of shield stun. edited it. And I accounted the hitlag into the sheild stun when factoring landing lag for advantage. I'm honestly not sure which way to put it because i've seen it referenced both ways in different threads. Edited it.
This is why I'm posting it to mad in the social thread instead of making new thread haha, like 85% chance I said at least one thing wrong
 
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PMS | Tink-er

fie on thee
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Iirc @ Hylian Hylian posted that cool gif of him comboing bowser with dysncs and one part was caused by purposefully missing an l cancel

How often is that necessary, missing an l cancel as ICs?
 

SpiderMad

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Messages
4,968
I did, I just thought that every character with a moon walk had a 'multi-walk'
Nah, someone like Marth can do Walk to MW, but going for another dash goes too far to keep going backwards even with TAS I think.
http://img198.imageshack.us/img198/5654/kde.gif
http://smashboards.com/threads/kadano’s-perfect-marth-class—advanced-frame-data-application.337035/#post-15564008

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4f5XPw2vEh0
Same with Ike (at least not when I tried to when he had somewhat of a MW, now he doesn't at all after they increased his dash distance in 2.5)
it's more like a Pluto walk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=verC4r-bmkE#t=41
It's smaller and not really a MW like it's not really a planet (except technically it is a MW)
 
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GHNeko

Sega Stockholm Syndrome.
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GHNeko
Basketball's origins are as a basket-oriented version of handball; the only way to advance the ball was to pass to other players, as moving with the ball in hand wasn't allowed.

The basic rules came from the idea that a) sports like football or American football were too rough for an indoor environment, and b) letting players move with the ball tended to force strategy to revolve around giving the fastest or strongest player the ball and defending them. Making the focus of the game passing in between players forced all players to be coordinated at all times, and to work with each other in a manner in which all players are of the same value.

Players decided to "pass to themselves" in games, using a bounce pass - this forced players who wanted to move with the ball to have an extra, specific kind of coordination, ensuring that team-based play wouldn't suffer if an individual player was allowed to move with the ball (as unlike things like strength or speed, manipulating the ball is a skill). The rules were eventually solidified in that players weren't allowed to move after ceasing an initial movement, so that teamwork and individual coordination are as important as each other.

I admire the poster's passion, but sports and games don't usually have rules "just because". The idea of entry-barrier mechanics like l-canceling - "it's here just to make it harder" - is something unique to video games, and are always very poorly justified.

I appreciate this post.

IF ONLY THIS WAS THE POST YOU MADE INITIALLY INSTEAD OF YOUR SMARK ALECK POST BLECK.

But no seriously. This was a neat post.

+1

EDIT:

IN OTHER NEWS; BEFORE I GO TO SLEEP




LOLOL
 
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