Project: Earth

[Deleted member]

Since this is our rating room, I feel that it is better suited to fit this task than the general discussion is. The goal of this topic is to create a handful of fully complete and viable Sandstorm teams. We can then take what we have learned from this topic and from each other to improve the ones we have and to improve our focus. Ideally, I would like to have 3 complete teams of individual and varying function.

Let's start off with the basics though. Only two Pokemon in the game have Sandstream: Tyranitar and Hippowdon. Obviously, each team must include one of these two. Other available Pokemon:

Ground:

http://www.serebii.net/pokedex-dp/ground.shtml

Sandslash
Nidoqueen
Nidoking
Dugtrio
Marowak
Quagsire
Mamoswine
Gliscor
Donphan
Swampert
Camerupt
Flygon
Whiscash
Claydol
Torterra
Gastrodon
Garchomp
Hippowdon

Rock:

http://www.serebii.net/pokedex-dp/rock.shtml

Golem
Rhyperior
Omastar
Kabutops
Aerodactyl
Shuckle
Tyranitar
Lunatone
Solrock
Cradily
Armaldo
Relicanth
Regirock
Ramparados
Bastiodon
Probopass

Steel:

http://www.serebii.net/pokedex-dp/steel.shtml

Forretress
Magnezone
Steelix
Scizor
Skarmory
Aggron
Metagross
Registeel
Jirachi
Empoleon
Bronzong
Lucario
Heatran

Other:

Cacturne
Golduck
Clefable

We have many aspects to look at here. Special Defense boost to Rock types being the first. We also have to realize that these Pokemon generally have multiple disadvantageous weaknesses, particularly those Rock/Steel pokes with 4x fighting weakness in a game where many pokemon can carry superpower. We can look at Sand Veil abuse, and drafting in other various typings onto the team, such as Water or Fighting that hit many types Super Effective. Both attacking and stall teams are welcome. We should also look at the noticeable lack of Special Attack and Special Defense so as not to leave any holes.

I think the best thing first would be to analyze good leads. I am of the opinion that we have several amazing leads available in these lists:

Swampert
Flygon
Claydol
Hippowdon
Aerodactyl
Tyranitar
Forretress
Scizor
Metagross
Bronzong

Also as a general stratagem, try to keep 2 fast killers on attack teams, or at least one with a priority move, even if you're playing stall. For example, I like to run Choice Scarf Jolly Garchomp with a Bullet Punch Metagross, in case one goes down you still have a back-up.

Let's see what we can do. Final teams will be posted for everyone to see with proper credit assigned. Creativity is not a necessity, but is encouraged if only to help others learn from it. This also doesn't have to be totally serious. I expect this to take several months, so let's have a good time with it.

 

[A_man13]

Awesome. I have a meh sandstorm team I could post if you want. Only downside is that I have cacturn (as it's imune to sandstorm) and garchomp if that is an issue.

 

[JesiahTEG]

I'd like to begin by saying I've tried about 3 sandstorm teams now and I've had success with none of them. I ask everybody, do they REALLY have the potential to compete at high levels? Explain so and WHY also. Before I dedicate serious time to this, I want to know what people think.

 

[Deleted member]

Particularly dangerous sweepers to make note of:

Tyranitar:
-Rock Polish (heh)
-Dragon Dance
-Choice Band
-traps stuff with stab pursuit

Marowak:
-Thick Club, Swords Dance?

Mamoswine:
-130 base attack, 80 base speed, STAB ice
-Life Orb, can be surprisingly fast
-Choice Band

Gliscor:
-Swords Dance
-Rock Polish? lol

Garchomp:
-130 attack, stab dragon
-faster than the average bear
-looks like a badass

Shuckle:
-Power Trick

Ramparados:
-itself

Scizor:
-SD Bullet Punch Technician
-can agility pass to heatran, pretty scary

Skarmory:
-BRAVE BIRD

magnezone and dugtrio:
-traps stuff that pursuit can't

lucario:
- SD and 2 priority moves
-choice specs handles the low spe att problem surprisingly well

half the **** available:
- gets agility/rock polish/ dragon dance/ swords dance
- gets explosion
- gets walled by the same stuff. remember that the opponent can only have 1 skarmory, so this works to our advantage

 

[A_man13]

I'd like to say that, even though my sandstorm team is relativly succesfull, it's near impossible to play them at high levels. Sandstorm relys primaraly on ground, rock, and steel. This means that most all pokes have some form of weakness to fighting and ice. Think how common this is:

-Weavile
-Infernape
-Lucario (at least on my team)
-Some forms of Swampert

and others. Not only that, but think of how common any ice or fighting moves are. There are slight ways around it (Gliscor for fighting, Lucario for ice, etc.), but it's hard for it to be a 100% guerantee around those two moves. Just flip the typing on my example and see what I mean.

EDIT: Forgot Skarmory. That's the only example that comes to mind with a relative immunity to both.

 

[Deleted member]

good point. we should construct the pokemon not weak to them to be the ones to counter these types, like metagross. we should also note to look into yache and chople berry.

pokes not weak to ice/fighting combo

swampert (all water/ground), camerupt
forretress
scizor
shuckle
metagross
bronzong
jirachi
skarmory
golduck

edit: you will have difficulty finding any pokemon that takes the ice/fighting combo relatively well.

 

[A_man13]

I'd really have to play around with it for a bit to get some good sets for that. Right now it seems Skarmory and metagross seem to be the best off so far. I think Scizor W/ Brick break works well around the weakness or at least the ice portion. Just got to be carefull around Infernape.

I just remembered ground type as being a relativly common weakness. That completes the Axis of evil types for sandstorm team as well as the common on team axis. Combine that with it's immunity to sandstorm itself and houston, we have a problem. That puts Metagross to rest in that area. I do remember, however, that Magnet rise can be baton passed if need be.

I still might try and provide some ground type movesets (as most of my sandstorm teams revolve around the likes of garchomp and gliscor). We might also want to debate the better sandstorm starter.

 

[Deleted member]

there is absolutely no requirement to start with either Sandstream pokemon. Actually, I encourage starting with something else if only to get rid of snow warning.

 

[A_man13]

Good point. I was actually meaning which would be better to start sandstorm; Hippowdon or Tyranitar?

 

[Deleted member]

depends on the rest of your team. ttar can wall trap or kill, hippo can wall phaze and counter specific stuff. you can use both too.

better to base your team around a concept and to just pick one I think, but if you have a different method by all means share it.

stuff I'm looking at:

ttar- I usually use ttar to ko starmie and other specific things, but I also use salamence to break walls and he's not available, so I'm stuck between CB and boah.

meta- good for bullet punch revenge kills and pursuit trapping, but also uses agility very well. meta also makes a sickly starter. hard call

chomp- yache or scarf? chomp's moves don't really change for the most part.

edit: if someone does a stall team based on garchomp w/ brightpowder and sand attack....lol

 

[A_man13]

depends on the rest of your team. ttar can wall trap or kill, hippo can wall phaze and counter specific stuff. you can use both too.

better to base your team around a concept and to just pick one I think, but if you have a different method by all means share it.

stuff I'm looking at:

ttar- I usually use ttar to ko starmie and other specific things, but I also use salamence to break walls and he's not available, so I'm stuck between CB and boah.

meta- good for bullet punch revenge kills and pursuit trapping, but also uses agility very well. meta also makes a sickly starter. hard call

chomp- yache or scarf? chomp's moves don't really change for the most part.

edit: if someone does a stall team based on garchomp w/ brightpowder and sand attack....lol

Good ideas. Lol at the edit. You mean sand veil right? If so, that's how I set up my cacturn:

Cacturn @ Bright powder
Sand veil
Adament nature
4 HP/ 252 Atk/ 252 Spd

-Substitute
-Leech seed
-Focus punch
-Sucker punch

I've had entire battles where I've just hid behind my substitute the whole time, unleashing punches and the ocasional leech seed as well as evilly laughing. I'm thinking of switching Spd and hp evs as to get a bit bulkier cacturn and one that's more likely to move last.

 

[zrky]

somehow, I thought A_man, would like this =)

 

[A_man13]

My sandstorm team isn't my normal team anymore, but I have had several cases to deal with sandstorm so I know a variety of movesets for sandstorm pokes.

Oh, and sorry for missing you on shoddy

 

[Deleted member]

really, sand veil + bright power + sand attack is just gay in general.

 

[A_man13]

All you need there is the double team if it were allowed and you'd be pure evil.

 

[Deleted member]

the cacturne set is good.

what do you guys think of something standard and working from there?

aerodactyl
hippowdon
scizor
heatran
swampert
jirachi

I don't think these teams are particularly difficult to make.

 

[A_man13]

That seems like a good starting point. It combines a few types together to topple most of the common weaknesses.

 

[ElemMasterZeph92]

the cacturne set is good.

what do you guys think of something standard and working from there?

aerodactyl
hippowdon
scizor
heatran
swampert
jirachi

I don't think these teams are particularly difficult to make.

That's a good team, you're right its not difficult to make.

 

[A_man13]

That's a good team, you're right its not difficult to make.

They are easy to make but hard to execute well. Now we really need to start making movesets (and trying our hand at other teams) to see what works. Maybe get a few strategy dex entries while we are at it.

 

[ElemMasterZeph92]

They are easy to make but hard to execute well. Now we really need to start making movesets (and trying our hand at other teams) to see what works. Maybe get a few strategy dex entries while we are at it.

You're right on both terms, the strategy dex entries on the on the other hand will really make me think. The movesets aren't my problem, its the possibilities which drive me crazy because I can't decide.

 

[sonofthesky]

Where the **** is groundon, rayquaza, Steel arceus, Rock arceus, Ground arceus, And dialga?

 

[jigglyppuff8]

Weather is way too unstable for ubers...I think.

 

[Deleted member]

I want to base mine around Metagross, Tyranitar, Garchomp, and I'm not too sure of what after there.

I use a fun Jirachi set:

Jirachi @ Leftovers, Modest, Serene Grace
252 HP / 120 SpA / 136 Spd
Substitute
Calm Mind
Grass Knot
Thunder

60% paralysis on thunder, 42% with misses on any given turn. Tends to keep things interesting.

 

[A_man13]

Interesting idea. Definetly gonna irritate the foe.

I've went ahead and tried replacing my tyranitar with a hippowdon. This is what I've come up with:

Hippowdon @ Leftovers, Impish, Sand Stream
252 HP/ 4 Atk/ 252 Def

-Stealth Rock
-Roar
-Earthquake
-Slack off

Pretty baisic. Sets up stealth rock and sandstorm for the entire team, then forces switches to deal stealth rock damage as well as damagle from sandstorm for those able to be hit by it. EQ hits steel and rock types super effective as they don't take much damage from stealth rock and immune to sandstorm. Slack off keeps the barage going.

 

[Deleted member]

it's like a skarmory kind of.

BRAVE BIRD

 

[ElemMasterZeph92]

I want to base mine around Metagross, Tyranitar, Garchomp, and I'm not too sure of what after there.

I use a fun Jirachi set:

Jirachi @ Leftovers, Modest, Serene Grace
252 HP / 120 SpA / 136 Spd
Substitute
Calm Mind
Grass Knot
Thunder

60% paralysis on thunder, 42% with misses on any given turn. Tends to keep things interesting.

Hm, I like it too but are you sure about using thunder over thunderbolt. I'm just saying that wouldn't it be funner to hit more. It really keeps up the suspense though.

 

[ElemMasterZeph92]

Interesting idea. Definetly gonna irritate the foe.

I've went ahead and tried replacing my tyranitar with a hippowdon. This is what I've come up with:

Hippowdon @ Leftovers, Impish, Sand Stream
252 HP/ 4 Atk/ 252 Def

-Stealth Rock
-Roar
-Earthquake
-Slack off

Pretty baisic. Sets up stealth rock and sandstorm for the entire team, then forces switches to deal stealth rock damage as well as damagle from sandstorm for those able to be hit by it. EQ hits steel and rock types super effective as they don't take much damage from stealth rock and immune to sandstorm. Slack off keeps the barage going.

That's pretty good as well, it reminds me of a more advanced version of Marriland's skarmory. Sorry for the double post.

 

[A_man13]

it's like a skarmory kind of.

BRAVE BIRD

I never really got the point of brave bird Skarmory. Shouldn't a wall try not to suck their own HP up?

Alright, so I've been playing around with shoddy a tad and, if I might make this suggestion, I think that most teams should start with something that is fight or fire enabled. The most obvious counter for a sandstorm team is a hail team which leads with Aboamasnow. A fighting move will be able to sweep it and most other hail team people (save Frosslass) and a fire will destroy near everything. I also think one of the contenders for lead should be Scarftran. It's fast enough to get a move ahead of most pokes, taunting or tricking choice scarf over is near useless, an asset when it comes to dealing with ice types, and provides openings for skamory and hippowdon to switch in.

 

[JesiahTEG]

Not to be a party pooper here, but if I'm going to spend time on this project and take pride in making a good SS team, I wouldn't want Garchomp to be allowed, since I'd want to test the team vs people on Shoddy.

Actually wtf...Want to know what Smogon SHOULD have done? Make it so that Sandstorm teams are ALLOWED to have Garchomp...It would make them wayy better vs normal teams and make them viable and make them a reason to be used. That's such a smart idea, **** you Smogon.

 

[A_man13]

Another issue has reared its ugly head in testing; Skymin. It has grass, ice, ground, and substitute, meaning everything but the kitchen sink is hit super effective and with speed. If it gets a sub up, that just makes everything 10X worse.

 

[JesiahTEG]

Seriously though, I'm all for this if Chomp is banned. I'd LOVE to have a good SS team.

 

[zrky]

I never really got the point of brave bird Skarmory. Shouldn't a wall try not to suck their own HP up?

Alright, so I've been playing around with shoddy a tad and, if I might make this suggestion, I think that most teams should start with something that is fight or fire enabled. The most obvious counter for a sandstorm team is a hail team which leads with Aboamasnow. A fighting move will be able to sweep it and most other hail team people (save Frosslass) and a fire will destroy near everything. I also think one of the contenders for lead should be Scarftran. It's fast enough to get a move ahead of most pokes, taunting or tricking choice scarf over is near useless, an asset when it comes to dealing with ice types, and provides openings for skamory and hippowdon to switch in.

Do you have problem with my steel chicken

Is steelix immune to sandstorm?

 

[A_man13]

It is. Why do you ask?

 

[Oracle]

A while ago I tried a fusion sandstorm-hail team, that actually went ok. Obamasnow, Ttar, and lunatone, and others I forgot. Might have been a hippowdon.

 

[ss118]

Infernape @ Focus Sash
Timid
4 HP, 252 Speed, 252 Sp. Attack
Overheat
Endeavor
Stealth Rock
Vacuum Wave

Tyranitar @ Leftovers
Jolly
4 HP, 252 Attack, 252 Speed
Crunch
Earthquake
Dragon Dance
Fire Punch

Cacturne @ Brightpowder
Adamant
4 HP, 252 Attack, 252 Speed
Sucker Punch
Seed Bomb
Swords Dance
Substitute

Flygon @ Life Orb
Hasty
212 Attack, 252 Speed, 44 Sp. Attack
Draco Meteor
Earthquake
Fire Blast
U-Turn

Scizor @ Leftovers
Technitian: Adamant
252 HP, 76 Attack, 4 Speed, 176 Special Defense
Bullet Punch
Brick Break
Swords Dance
Roost

Heatran @ Life Orb
Naive
4 Attack, 252 Speed, 252 Sp. Attack
Flamethrower
Earth Power
Substitute
Explosion

To be honest, I made this whole team in about 5 min but I think it's pretty solid. I might consider Gliscor over Infernape if the fighting weakness gets out of hand.

9 Straight Wins
1 Loss(bad play versus a Rain Dance Team)
1 Win
1 Loss(haxed by Scizor, maybe I should make Heatran more match-lasting?)
3 Wins
1 Loss(I got outpredicted, but the team did fine itself. Very close)
5 Straight Wins
1 Loss(Epic fail miss on Scizor with Flygon's Fire Blast ._.")
2 Win
1 Loss(Skymin is gay)

20 Wins
5 Losses

80% Win Percentage

That's decent I guess, though there is a bit to improve on.

Updated team

5 wins 2 Loss

 

[A_man13]

Pretty solid team. IMO gliscor could take advantage of sandstorm better than infernape and it's not going to be digging switching into the endless sandstorm as well as other entry hazards.

Well, this is what I am using up to this point on my sandstorm team. I do have a hippowdon version if anyone wants to see that set.

Tyranitar @ Leftovers
Adament: Sand stream
76 HP/ 252 Atk/ 180 Speed
Taunt
Dragon Dance
Earthquake
Stone edge

Lucario @ Focus Sash
Jolly: Inner Focus
4 HP/ 252 Atk/ 252 Speed
Sword Dance
Close combat
Extreemespeed
Stone edge

Heatran @ Choice scarf
Naive: Flash fire
4 HP/ 252 Sp. Atk/ 252 Speed
Heat Wave
Hidden power ice
Earth power
Explosion

Cacturn @ Bright powder
Adament: Sand veil
4 HP/ 252 Atk/ 252 speed
Substitute
Focus Punch
Sucker Punch
Leech seed

Gliscor @ Leftovers
Impish: Sand veil
172 HP/ 84 Atk/ 172 Def
Taunt
Roost
Earthquake
Ice fang

Scizor @ Leftovers
Adament: Technition
4 HP/ 252 Atk/ 252 Speed
Sword Dance
X-Scizor
Bullet Punch
Superpower

Pretty meh, but it works (at least enough to beat Zrky).

 

[Deleted member]

I want to keep Garchomp legal for this. Banned or not, Garchomp lets us learn more about this game.

 

[Chill]

Where's project: water?

 

[ss118]

yeah I want to use Kyogre, since obviously Garchomp is being allowed for project: earth

 

[Deleted member]

funny, none of the submitted teams have chomp yet.

don't be bitter about this. comparing chomp to kyogre is a joke and you know it.