Problems vs Marth

[Pointman Rob]

He's a punk ***** with a sword that has the range of a GUN.

lol, but other than that...

I'm having some difficulties with a friend's Marth. (It's a pretty sick Marth) Over the course of a match I'll find that I really dunno what I should do. For example, he generally approaches me with SHFFL'd Nairs or Fairs followed by either Dtlit or Fsmash, and he spaces them quite well. It doesn't seem to matter what I do, one of them always connects, and I proceed to get comboed hard. How do I play that one off without getting hit, and then what's the best way to punish that?

Second question is while I'm recovering back to the stage, he likes to crouch at the edge of the stage and just SH->Dair me when I go for the ledge with Up-B. He rarely misses it, and although I'm SURE I could avoid it by sweetspotting the ledge, no matter how perfect I think I get it, I still get hit. A) Is it possible to get to the ledge with Marth doing that B) If I get hit, is it possible to edge-tech and survive? I've tried countless times, but I can't seem to get the timing for it. He also seems to hit me away from the ledge when he does it, so I question whether its possible. Tips/suggestions for dealing with that?

Also feel free to post any general Marth advice that you think might help. (stage picks, general strats, etc) Edgeguarding his Marth is no prob for me, its getting a combo started to get him off the ledge that's the hard part.

 

[Frozenserpent]

For the dair.... it's possible to tech it, but it seems very difficult for me to, kind of like ganon's uair. I'm pretty sure ganon has a crappy sweetspot and he's still vulnerable to the dair even if you sweetspot perfectly.

My suggestion? If you're not at too high percentage, you can just forget about sweetspotting and just up-b high, and DI when you get hit. If he f-smashes you... if your percentage isn't a ridiculous percentage and it's not a tipper, you'll end up not needing an up-b.

As for dealing with his shuffled nairs and fairs, that seems to be more of an issue of spacing. Your own fair has some ridiculous range (the appearance is misleading). You can try out using dair, since it has a fairly decent range, and knocks marth upwards.
In general, marth seems much more vulnerable when you are below him, and he doesn't seem to have an especially good shield.
So long as he is not keeping the pressure on you, you shouldn't be doing too poorly. IMO, it's when the marth starts grabbing frequently that it becomes an irritating matchup.

 

[technomancer]

For the D-air spike, smash DI into the stage when you get hit and you should be able to immediately tech unless you get hit well away from the wall. Hugging the wall will help too. Holding towards the stage, you'll usually be able to tech, and C-Sticking it can help that too I think.

 

[ArcNatural]

For the D-air, you can smash DI into the wall then tech and immediately upB into them. Ganon's upB grab range is huge and you will end up grabbing them before they can do anything. Learn retreating Fairs while mixing your jumps up. That's all I can think of.

 

[Metal Reeper]

Well im a good Marth player myself but iv found if u can wavesheild (wavedash while in sheild) You could get really close to em and maybe get off a sheild grab unless he grabs u first wavesheilding is very very ahrd tho but if u practice that it would help.

 

[Deleted member]

hmmm :\

the only thing that i can think of when my brother does that is i use my second jump and use his dair (my brother doesnt call ganon mr. hitbox body for nothin :D)

or try to tech torwards him if u can tech, and shffl bair till you can turn around and sucker punch that girly looking gun sworder dude with a fair in da dome!

 

[Stormblast]

For the dair.... it's possible to tech it, but it seems very difficult for me to, kind of like ganon's uair. I'm pretty sure ganon has a crappy sweetspot and he's still vulnerable to the dair even if you sweetspot perfectly.

Just for the record, Ganon's Uair is near impossible to tech and it doesnt even become techable until 130+ because below that % it does only stun like falco's lazers and that is impossible to tech.

But yeah his dair reaches far below the edge so sweetspotting wont help you there unless you manage to tech it.

 

[O D I N]

For Dair; Practice meteor cancelling too; Up+Bing again the second you're hit. Could throw him off. My friend actually likes to throw a towards+B,Towards+B, down+b at me, and that 3rd down B is a meteor smash. Fun stuff.

Anyway, if you have the space for it, try throwing him off with your double jump, like jump away from the stage, and then up B. I'm not the best at giving advice. :-? Sorry bout that.

As far as approaching him, throw out some more bairs. Bairs are fast, have great knockback, and looks cool. ;-) Don't forget the slaps when he trys to grab you, but he has hella range, so it's difficult to pull those off. Personally, I love my dair, so I usually approach with dairs and bairs. I use fairs if they miss their fsmash. I like to jump towards them, double jump back while they attack, and go in for the punch afterwards.

Good luck sir! Sorry if I wasn't too helpful. :-X

 

[Stormblast]

Marths Dair is a Spike, therefore no meteor canceling unless you live where the PAL version is used.

 

[tarheeljks]

i suggest bairs

 

[Frozenserpent]

Just for the record, Ganon's Uair is near impossible to tech and it doesnt even become techable until 130+ because below that % it does only stun like falco's lazers and that is impossible to tech.

But yeah his dair reaches far below the edge so sweetspotting wont help you there unless you manage to tech it.

I know it's possible to tech ganon's uair. I'm not sure about %, though. From personal experience, i've teched ganon's reverse uair as ganon on battlefield.

 

[Stormblast]

you must have been at pretty high % then

 

[AS Money]

marth may have the range of a gun but ganon has range comparable to that of marths. also ganon can kill marth in like 3 moves as well. for the fair problems on marths approch may i sudgest you CC to something as it stands ganon is quite the rock when it comes to weight. also abuse how fast the quick jab ganon has vs marth to anything from a fair to a stomp. stomping marth is quite a good stratigy. then again watch out cuz marth likes every character above him uptilt abuse from marth is quite annoying

 

[linkmastersword]

edge gaurding:
Ledge hang Bair
ffDair as to jump over the tip of his sword during his up b or at least trade hits
Reverse Uair
if marth is recovering from above, just uair him

quick combos
jab - dash attack or maybe even grab if he sheilds right away
dthrow to aerial
let him Fsmash your shield, maybe try to wave shield toward him, you can get a free hit this way
this fight is much more even than people think it is.

Full jump rising dair, to 2nd jump spaced bair or fair.

grabbing is very important for ganon in this fight.

 

[technomancer]

Don't forget to mexican truck (vB) him if he recovers level from you :D

 

[Luck-NYC/NJ]

the key to beating marth is all patience. wat alotta people dont realize is that they charge into marth all the time. it might even feel like there is no way to approach him (which can be true sometimes for really good marths). Just be more patient dash dance away from him and wait for him to make a move. then i would suggest using all ur good ranged moves once hes within range.

wait for him to approach and when:
He comes from the ground u can either: retreating fair or full jump dair or wait for the fairs then roll dodge away. the thing u want to do most though is get a grab. grabs own marth so u must not shield so much and try and get him to shield.

From the air: full jump double fairs are hard to stop but also hard to space. these r ur best bet for shield grabbing. otherwise roll under him. if u can get behind him the most he can do is bair u which will completely push u away so he cant combo. u can also try challenging him with a uair but i wouldnt risk it.

Remeber key to beating marth is grabs u can **** him offa those. also make ur edge-gaurding flawless and u will beat marth.

 

[thebluedeath1000]

Happynigga is right, marth's recovery isn't very variable. Ganon can take a stock by bairing him off and virtually doing anything...And even if the marth manages to come back, a simple dair will send him up like a rocket if hes around 100-ish.

It would be best to wait for a mistake and punish..grab to start your combos and do your best to get below marth when hes in air and theres stage below you. Your uair cuts through everything of his and you can take him off the stage with it easy.

 

[linkmastersword]

another tip for your teching is when doing ganon's upb you should get below the level just enough so when you do an up b you will barely make it on to the stage, not the ledge but successfully on the stage. press up and L immediately as you start moving upward, you should be 2 body lengths below the ledge.

this way you have the upB grab hitbox for an attack, the ledge tech, and the chance of landing on the level if the ledge is occupied.

 

[frotaz37]

CC down tilt.