Problems vs fox

[GLaDOS]

I main falco and my friend mains fox, however I have problems with specific tactics he uses as fox. Firstly, he likes to jump around a lot to use arial attacks, especially on stages like battlefield - when I try to air attack him he always seems to get me first with fox's F-air (which seems to be more responsive than Falco's F-air). Secondly, he seems to play quite agressively, which messes me up. An example of this is when fox comes straight at me to grab (I usually shield expecting a dash attack). Finally, and perhaps the biggest problem, is his constant smash spam - it's so predictable but it's hard for me to punish because of the short lag time afterwards. Sometimes he may do 3 forward smashes in a row, miss all of them then when I try to grab he down smashes. I usually find myself being the first to lose a stock, and forever having to play catchup to stand a chance of winning - a recent strategy I have started to use is to chain grab him up to 40%, then slip some air attacks in when he tries to escape, but even this is limited in success.

If anyone can help me develop a counter for this strategy as falco, please help

 

[crimsonhaze]

BIG THING: roll instead of shielding (it seems like)

 

[wangston]

First off flaco's fair is a no no unless you are gimping people off the stage. Use falco's n-air or b-air or d-air for any sort of approach. Also you can chain fox to 40% then spike him so there is no reason you shouldn't be able to beat him. For more on chain spiking if you don't know how to do it read this. http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=175482

 

[bludhoundz]

I main falco and my friend mains fox, however I have problems with specific tactics he uses as fox. Firstly, he likes to jump around a lot to use arial attacks, especially on stages like battlefield - when I try to air attack him he always seems to get me first with fox's F-air (which seems to be more responsive than Falco's F-air). Secondly, he seems to play quite agressively, which messes me up. An example of this is when fox comes straight at me to grab (I usually shield expecting a dash attack). Finally, and perhaps the biggest problem, is his constant smash spam - it's so predictable but it's hard for me to punish because of the short lag time afterwards. Sometimes he may do 3 forward smashes in a row, miss all of them then when I try to grab he down smashes. I usually find myself being the first to lose a stock, and forever having to play catchup to stand a chance of winning - a recent strategy I have started to use is to chain grab him up to 40%, then slip some air attacks in when he tries to escape, but even this is limited in success.

If anyone can help me develop a counter for this strategy as falco, please help

Falco's fair isn't really that great of a move. It can be good situationally, but Fox's fair is better. If you want to beat his fair use bair (with good spacing this should work) or a laser (this can't really fail unless you miss).

If he runs straight at you for a grab / dash attack, use your reflector and put him on his ***. You can also try Ftilt or jab.

If he spams Fsmash, let it hit your shield and then press A to grab him. Don't bother dodging it with spotdodges or rolling, this is the easiest way to punish. If he starts catching on then mix it up, but smash spam is pretty easy to deal with.

Also the chaingrab is a good idea. You can chain him to the end of the stage (leave one character length until the edge of the stage for yourself after the last grab), get a short running start and then dair him to his death.

 

[GLaDOS]

Hmm, thanks for the hints - so overall would it be better if I don't follow fox into the air because that **** fair always seems to get me, although i see the point about using Bair. I typically do roll to dodge , but if I do it persistantly he just attacks where he thinks I'll end up. Is it just a case of mixing things up a bit to become less predictable? I haven't mastered the spike after chain grab yet, although I have been working on it recently.

 

[bobwaffles]

Against aggressive players, especially Smash spamming ones, reflector is your best friend. It really messes up those kind of approaches, and if he tries to approach from the air, just roll back and laser him.

 

[PCHU]

Chain his butt, that'll teach him how to approach.
Laserlock him a few times.
He will eventually start getting more defensive.
That's your chance to chain and play like you do now.
If he's used to smashing so much, screw his playstyle up and SHL him, or just shine him.
Meteor him a few times.
You can be just as aggressive as he can.

 

[Tangy]

Since your friend likes to use a lot of aerials, just put up your shield for a shield grab. If he lands behind you, go for a d-smash, u-tilt, or wait for him to make a move. If you get him in a grab, just go for the chaingrabs. It's impossible for Fox to escape at low percentages.
When your friend is running up to you, spot dodging is better than just shielding. Avoids both dash attack and grab. You can also simply do a f-tilt to intercept him.
You have so many choices against the smash spams. Shield grab, spot dodge, reflect, lasers...

 

[mr.fizwidget]

my bro mains fox and for a while i thought he might be competitive with my falco. then i started playing smart. chain grab is your best friend and let him approach-this gives you a huge advantage.

 

[clank123]

when he starts with the aerials just spam roll, and when he spams smash just use phantasm

 

[Omega Deman]

Using lasers while on the ground near Fox = bad. If gives fox a free Fsmash.

Use Nair instead of Fair. in fact try approaching using Nair, followed by AAA.

 

[crimson chaos]

Falco is way more aggrisive and stronger then fox. Do u short jump or just reaguler jump aginst it would be better if u just short jump d-air it will mess him up and then CG him

 

[the-real-dan0]

remember short hop lasers to rack up easy damage and practice getting that chain grab to dair in on him to put him a stock down early in the match

 

[Fenrir EX]

I recently moved from Marth, to Wolf, to Falco. One of the first things I learned was to shorthop-laser (still working on perfecting) and shorthop-double laser (almost mastered). It really helps. Falco's laser is way more useful when you cancel it with the ground.

On of the followups I do when the opponent starts to get close is throw out a reflector; it does enough knockback and damage to keep him away for at least the lag time, while still having enough range, and it has a chance to trip him. What you also could follow up with is a dash attack from standing position, done by mashing the control stick in a direction (like you would with a smash attack, and then press the c-stick down, this does a dash attack from a standing position (something that if done with the A button would produce a smash attack). Do make sure you press the control stick before the c-stick, or else you'll do a down smash, which will leave you right open. He'll probably won't anticipate that.

If you really want to get fancy you could mash the c-stick up right when the dash attack hits, and at low percentage hit him again with the up-smash (section 4.3 here). If you can't pull it off, don't do it in a match, it might make you look as if your tricks won't work and it'll give the opponent the impression he's better than you. On the other hand if you can get it to work most of the time on CPU's (or anything as long as he doesn't see you practice it), he might think "what the hell was that!", and that will give you an advantage. I used the same technique with Marth; whenever I saw an opening I did something flashy. It makes the opponent feel bad, which will make him use good techniques less, and resort to spammy-ness. This is when you punish him badly.

So basically, I'm telling you to use psychological "warfare" on the opponent, in order to beat him. This includes being flashy, using the taunt at the right time (don't get hit while doing it, that would ruin it), and mindgames. Don't get cocky though, and don't behave like an *** saying: "I WON AND YOU LOST! LOSER!". Just down his morale without saying anything mean, and keep yours up.

I have no idea if I'm telling you the right thing, or making it worse. It's kind of hard to explain.

 

[Jporiey]

lol d00dz just laz0r spaaaaaam ftw...
wins every time, trust me, just let the bread guide your way.

 

[Null_brawl]

just chain spike him... and use dair nair and uair fsmahs and usmash and dsmash its good too...

 

[ADHD]

Chain grab, you know about that right? It's very fun to punish people for being noobs with "ZOMGR so CHEEP" tactics.

 

[Null_brawl]

Chain grab, you know about that right? It's very fun to punish people for being noobs with "ZOMGR so CHEEP" tactics.

yeh!

thats rigth

 

[DAGanmanert]

Short hop Lasers, get in a chain grab and end with a Dair..Finshed..Get some DACs to rack up some damage...and dont forget about the reflector its always ur friend

 

[z3r0C0oL]

As a Fox main, let me tell you about my experiences with Falco...

Yes, lazer spam, cause fox doesnt have a reflector.... :/

Your lazers are Fox's best friend as they double the damage when they go back to hit you.
My advice, dont spam them. Although, online, the button lag lets some lasers through, off line is another story...

Chain grabbing will get you 40ish but Fox has one of the best meteor cancels with his upB so unless he is a total n00b, this wont kill him. Ive never been chain grabbed AND spiked. Also, smart players know that a spike is coming if you CG close to the edge so they will shine you will either miss or get hit by the shine. Spiking at later percentages will certainly work, but dont think that you can just chaingrab him at the start of the match and that Fox's stock is gone.

I always seem to get hit by Falco Forward Smash, i dont know why, but that seems to connect a lot more then it should :/

When up close, shine, it throws me off and is great for spacing.

Falcos, bair is amazing, use it often. especially when fox is hanging off the ledge.

oh, and Falco AAA combo is a pain the butt to get out of, it always does like 10-15% damage, this by far is the most annoying aspect about fighting falco. Fox does have his own AAA combo that sucks you in and can return the favor, but i find that falco's connects more as it travels forward just a bit.

Never use firebird to recover unless you want to get shine spiked.

I have only been pwnt once, by Toilet Humors Falco (actually, all his characters are insane, he is the BEST player i have EVER faced) and it was an amazing thing to watch. I managed to take off 2 stocks but he was in control the entire match. How you ask? Pressure, the guy NEVER let up. He was just in my face the entire match and gave me NO breathing room. I honestly cant remember much about the match but i just recall that he was in my face the whole time and i was just overwhelmed.


Let Fox be the aggressor and you are asking for trouble.

Overall , Falco has much better match-ups, his lasers are better then Fox's, and his chaingrab is a great damage builder and killer if the opponent has a crappy recovery.

Honestly though, i think in a Fox v Falco match, Fox has a slight advantage as he is faster then you and can combo Falco rather easily do to his fast falling ( which evens out the damage that Falco can do with his CG) and his smashes are stronger which can give Fox much earlier kills.

So basically, i dont think there is a trick to beating a good Fox or a good Falco, you just need to outplay the other person.

P.S. I use Fox only but when im bored i pick Falco since their move set is similar and he is a lot of fun to play as, Bair'ing and Spiking people is an amazing feeling. i also love to be annoying with SHDL

 

[Zanoske]

Yes, lazer spam, cause fox doesnt have a reflector.... :/

How can Fox not have a reflector while your lazer spamming?

 

[z3r0C0oL]

:/ <------ was meant to show sarcasm

 

[Zanoske]

:/ <------ was meant to show sarcasm

Oh... didn't know you were being sarcastic?