Pretty in pink or true in blue, Krystal for Sm4sh!

[Guybrush20X6]

Speaking of, I wonder if it's worth our time to try and garner support on the furry boards of the internet. Krystal is basically how a lot of them got started.

 

[jahkzheng]

Just found this poll recently and it's got some interesting results. Each vote is limited to a google account to avoid people spamming too easily...

https://docs.google.com/forms/d/10-...BTigeOBOW4jz_c/viewanalytics?usp=form_confirm

I'll spoiler my detailed thoughts...

Spoiler

Krystal is in solid contention for third most wanted newcomer! K. Rool is way ahead with Isaac in a solid second, as expected. Then there's a small crowd fighting for third, but I feel Krystal has an edge against most of them.

First, there's characters like Banjo, Bayonetta, Shovel Knight, and Rayman that all have around the same number of votes as Krystal give or take a couple, but as we know they suffer from not being Nintendo properties. Then there's characters like Chrom and Ridley, both have slightly less votes than Krystal and we know why they face difficulty in terms of inclusion. Other than all these characters with limiting factors, the only real unhindered competition from newcomers Krystal faces is from Paper Mario and Dixie apparently, at least in this poll so far. Of course, characters like Bandana Dee or others could close ground but mostly it's the characters I already mentioned that are in close proximity to Krystal.

In terms of vets, Roy as an oddly high number of votes and that feels like a bit of an aberration. Likewise the number of Young Link votes feels oddly high, equalling Krystal's votes. I find both these vets unlikely however, but you never know. Krystal leads Snake slightly and we know about his difficulty in getting included. Wolf's votes actually seem low, though still higher than Krystals, but I feel he's as good as in at this point so his vote counts aren't telling and I don't think he'll really effect the chances of any other character.

It's still a small sample but given the precautions to avoid vote spamming, I think this poll is a nice snapshot that looks good for us. Even better when it appears it's mostly a Gamefaqs poll and I don't think it's necessarily known for having much in the way of Krystal support. Btw, the pie chart showing voter affiliations was added later and that's why it's got many less answers than the character poll.

TL;DR - Krystal is doing alright! You can come to your own conclusions by looking at the link but if you want my detailed opinion on why this looks good to me, you should probably read the spoiler.

Also, posted this whole thing from my phone so sorry if it's a mess. Smashboards isn't so fun to use on a phone, heh.

 

[JamesDNaux]

@JamesDNaux
If you like Dixie then you should follow Dixie for DLC on twitter and support her #Shamelessplug

And make sure to spread the word!

Eh, Dixie is lower on my want list. She's still my favorite Kong, but I like the Kremling King more and even he's not in my top 3.

Speaking of, I wonder if it's worth our time to try and garner support on the furry boards of the internet. Krystal is basically how a lot of them got started.

I was under the assumption that people treated them like the scum of the internet.

I've seen a lot of Krystal fans getting overly defensive and swearing up and down that they aren't furries.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Eh, Dixie is lower on my want list. She's still my favorite Kong, but I like the Kremling King more and even he's not in my top 3.

I was under the assumption that people treated them like the scum of the internet.

I've seen a lot of Krystal fans getting overly defensive and swearing up and down that they aren't furries.

Furries get a lot of crap but A. most of them are just normal people who like drawing anthros and B. a vote is a vote, it doesn't matter who the voter gets turned on by. Maybe don't mention yiffing in the reasons tho.

 

[jahkzheng]

Just found this poll recently and it's got some interesting results. Each vote is limited to a google account to avoid people spamming too easily...

https://docs.google.com/forms/d/10-...BTigeOBOW4jz_c/viewanalytics?usp=form_confirm

I'll spoiler my detailed thoughts...

Spoiler

Krystal is in solid contention for third most wanted newcomer! K. Rool is way ahead with Isaac in a solid second, as expected. Then there's a small crowd fighting for third, but I feel Krystal has an edge against most of them.

First, there's characters like Banjo, Bayonetta, Shovel Knight, and Rayman that all have around the same number of votes as Krystal give or take a couple, but as we know they suffer from not being Nintendo properties. Then there's characters like Chrom and Ridley, both have slightly less votes than Krystal and we know why they face difficulty in terms of inclusion. Other than all these characters with limiting factors, the only real unhindered competition from newcomers Krystal faces is from Paper Mario and Dixie apparently, at least in this poll so far. Of course, characters like Bandana Dee or others could close ground but mostly it's the characters I already mentioned that are in close proximity to Krystal.

In terms of vets, Roy as an oddly high number of votes and that feels like a bit of an aberration. Likewise the number of Young Link votes feels oddly high, equalling Krystal's votes. I find both these vets unlikely however, but you never know. Krystal leads Snake slightly and we know about his difficulty in getting included. Wolf's votes actually seem low, though still higher than Krystals, but I feel he's as good as in at this point so his vote counts aren't telling and I don't think he'll really effect the chances of any other character.

It's still a small sample but given the precautions to avoid vote spamming, I think this poll is a nice snapshot that looks good for us. Even better when it appears it's mostly a Gamefaqs poll and I don't think it's necessarily known for having much in the way of Krystal support. Btw, the pie chart showing voter affiliations was added later and that's why it's got many less answers than the character poll.

TL;DR - Krystal is doing alright! You can come to your own conclusions by looking at the link but if you want my detailed opinion on why this looks good to me, you should probably read the spoiler.

Also, posted this whole thing from my phone so sorry if it's a mess. Smashboards isn't so fun to use on a phone, heh.

Okay, so I wrote the above post up a few hours before posting it. It's clear that in the time of it's writing and now that more votes came in. Banjo has gotten 4 more posts since I last looked and Bayonetta has gotten 3. Shovel Knight has gotten 1. Krystal is right where she was this morning at 12 votes. Inkling and Shantae have closed ground significantly too, getting 3 and 4 votes more since this morning respectively.

 

[Fatmanonice]

Speaking of, I wonder if it's worth our time to try and garner support on the furry boards of the internet. Krystal is basically how a lot of them got started.

Because there's no possible way that would heavily backfire or cause bad publicity...

 

[ES. Dinah]

Krystal is very likely actually. Japan wants her in.

 

[jahkzheng]

Speaking of, I wonder if it's worth our time to try and garner support on the furry boards of the internet. Krystal is basically how a lot of them got started.

I was under the assumption that people treated them like the scum of the internet.

I've seen a lot of Krystal fans getting overly defensive and swearing up and down that they aren't furries.

Furries get a lot of crap but A. most of them are just normal people who like drawing anthros and B. a vote is a vote, it doesn't matter who the voter gets turned on by. Maybe don't mention yiffing in the reasons tho.

Because there's no possible way that would heavily backfire or cause bad publicity...

Well, I think our groups major focus is getting Krystal some support and votes. We don't need to create a super group with any furry board support group, but I imagine it wouldn't hurt that if any of us are familiar or frequent boards like that, they could show and push for Krystal support on that side of the internet. We can keep the groups separate but the cause unified. Votes can come from anywhere. We don't need to get everyone in one room to get them to vote, so to speak. It's purely Krystal support period, not Smashboards trying to get Krystal support from elsewhere. This applies to all other sites. We aren't gonna bring in a bunch of Redditers for support either, but if anyone uses Reddit frequently, they can speak for Krystal on that side of the internet too. See how this works? No mixing, just spreading the word without forcing ourselves into places.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Krystal is very likely actually. Japan wants her in.

I was under the impression that Japan hated Krystal for ruining their Yaoi pairings. Interesting how things change over time.

 

[王女 クマトラ]

Fairly unrelated (sorry!) but where can I get the cute DLC support cards everyone has in their signature? I figured they would just be in the OP of the character support threads, but they don't seem to be..

Edit: I didn't even mean to post this in this thread.. Oops.. But I do want a Krystal support card, lol.

 

[TheDarkKnightNoivern]

Might as well try, the more votes the better and I get the feeling we're gonna need as many as we can get

 

[Guybrush20X6]

I think Krystal's strongest assets will be moveset potential, rounding out a cast and double pack potential with Wolf. Plus she has a lot of (reasonably SFW) fanart that can be used to make nice looking banners.

 

[JamesDNaux]

Fairly unrelated (sorry!) but where can I get the cute DLC support cards everyone has in their signature? I figured they would just be in the OP of the character support threads, but they don't seem to be..

Edit: I didn't even mean to post this in this thread.. Oops.. But I do want a Krystal support card, lol.

I noticed my Snake icon in your signature, glad to see more support for him. And more people actually using things I make.

I have a Krystal one too, actually.

 

[Captain Hazama]

I noticed my Snake icon in your signature, glad to see more support for him. And more people actually using things I make.

I have a Krystal one too, actually.

You mind terribly if I use that icon as well?

 

[JamesDNaux]

You mind terribly if I use that icon as well?

I made them for people to use, I'm just glad people like them!

I made some for a few other characters as well.

 

[Captain Hazama]

Thank you so much!

 

[Jason the Yoshi]

I made them for people to use, I'm just glad people like them!

I made some for a few other characters as well.

You wouldn't happen to have one for Isaac from Golden Sun, would you?

 

[JamesDNaux]

You wouldn't happen to have one for Isaac from Golden Sun, would you?

Why I happen to have a certain adept.


I made a post with a load of them in the character thread, but that's probably pages back by now.

 

[ChaosOmega]

Speaking of, I wonder if it's worth our time to try and garner support on the furry boards of the internet. Krystal is basically how a lot of them got started.

doubt it,

 

[MagnesD3]

If I got Wolf and Krystal Ill cry.

 

[Foxy Renegade]

If we managed to get Wolf and Krystal then I'd probably resemble a child on Christmas. I doubt it will happen, but the way I see it their options are slightly limited. I see a lot of space on Star Fox and Donkey Kong with a couple randoms thrown in such as Isaac. The first hurdle we have to pass is whether she will even appear in the Star Fox Wii U iteration. Since I haven't seen her in any sort of way I fear they may have followed one of the belligerent people who so strongly voiced their hatred for her. If I voiced my hatred or the flaws with certain characters like they do I'd never leave my computer. lol.

Also, as for the ballot that was shown earlier it's still in an incredibly early phase. Not to mention I can't even place a vote on it because it won't load properly to let me do so. As for the official ballot on the Smash website I believe it's more of a nomination poll. I believe they will take the frequency of recommendations into account to a degree, but it's mainly just to throw the names around. Perhaps they plan on holding an official vote later on that will put in place measures to hinder duplicate votes. Though I firmly believe that even if they did do this it's more just to take a sample of what characters are actually popular, they wouldn't simply create the winner of a poll.

And as terrible as it probably is, I vote Krystal on the ballot again with a different reason. I know the trolls and diehards certainly are doing that for their characters, so I try to balance that out with Krystal. Judge me if you will, but I'm tired of the disappointment.
Since we are receiving two veterans as the first DLC I believe that we will be due for a newcomer afterwards. And as far as DLC goes I could see Wolf coming back as the last veteran, but nobody else. Roy is out because his role has been filled half a dozen times. Sorry, but WE DON'T NEED ANY MORE SWORDSMEN.

I'm honestly displeased with how Star Fox was represented in this iteration. Fox's timings are way off than they were in Brawl and his knockback distance has been nerfed too. I can still play him, but it just feels off now. I was never a big Falco guy, I wish he would have been removed rather than Wolf (he's way more of a clone). Regardless, Falco feels very floaty and different now. If someone who put more hours on him could confirm that opinion that would be appreciated.

 

[Banjo-Kazooie]

I really, reeeally, really wish that Krystal shows up in Sm4sh. I think she got robbed of her chance thanks to Wolf being denied as well. Now everyone is thinking on Wolf before Krystal because they miss him from Brawl. And with Lucas inclusion, its only logical for everyone that he should return too. And I can't say I disagree. But Wolf should have never left in the first place. Only thing that is going to suck is that Wolf will return as the same Fox cloney guy he was; red landmaster and everything.

Im gonna give a vote for Krystal anyways. After all, everyone is giving votes like crazy. At least Im gotta show support for the 2 characters that I wanted in the first place. Before the whole ballot shenanigans. And no point in being a negative nancy anyways.

 

[Princess Toady]

Welcome to the new people ! <3

I would advertize for Krystal on furry websites but I kinda don't know any so it's a little pointless. It's not the type of boards I frequently post at. Since so many people decide to vote more than once, I also decided to give more votes for Krystal as well. I do not think it's bad since so many people are taking advantage of the very blurred rules, so we might as well do it too. Of course, don't spend one hour a day spamming votes for Krystal...

Really, we should be looking forward to June or at least next E3, whenever it may be. Once Wolf is confirmed we can finally request his fans' aid in supporting Krystal. Theoretically, they should not be averse to helping us. I'm also trying to reason with people, telling them not to waste their votes on very unlikely characters, but sometimes it's hard ! Thankfully, in general they are very kind and since they know their characters will never make it, they don't mind helping a friend out. ^^

I hope Krystal's appearance isn't based on Command though, I like my characters to be pretty. And so far in Smash, my favorite iteration of Fox was in Melee. I liked how he looked like an actual Fox with an elongated nose. Krystal can't be based on Adventures alone, but I would like if she was at least based on Assault's model. Like Wolf in Brawl.

 

[IanTheGamer]

Guys, can you tell me how to put an image as my sig?

 

[Princess Toady]

I think you should put the link of your image between [ img] [ /img].

Remove the spaces of course.

 

[SilverWolf7]

Hm... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nfthppOnIsc

http://mynintendonews.com/2015/04/0...ots-on-the-super-smash-bros-character-lineup/

what do you think?

 

[IanTheGamer]

I think you should put the link of your image between [ img] [ /img].

Remove the spaces of course.

Thanks, but the image isn't showing up

 

[TheDarkKnightNoivern]

Hm... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nfthppOnIsc

http://mynintendonews.com/2015/04/0...ots-on-the-super-smash-bros-character-lineup/

what do you think?

Those were there before release weren't they? Plus they don't appear on the mobile site

 

[Foxy Renegade]

I just read that article about an hour ago actually. lol. I don't necessarily know that it means anything because I'm pretty sure I heard similar speculation back when they were revealing characters and it turned out just to be placeholders for the page and not necessarily for characters. Although, I could see roughly that amount of characters coming as DLC. And I like Banjo and Kazooie I just find it funny that we basically have a character that operates with another character on his back (Duck Hunt). I wonder whether that would become a sort of a clone or something. I think we'll see a reveal at E3 for sure, hopefully to coincide with Star Fox Wii U at E3. So, either Wolf or Krystal...but I have a hard time seeing three veterans back to back. I would think they would want to save veterans because they require the least amount of additional programming.

 

[TheRandomCities4]

I just read that article about an hour ago actually. lol. I don't necessarily know that it means anything because I'm pretty sure I heard similar speculation back when they were revealing characters and it turned out just to be placeholders for the page and not necessarily for characters. Although, I could see roughly that amount of characters coming as DLC. And I like Banjo and Kazooie I just find it funny that we basically have a character that operates with another character on his back (Duck Hunt). I wonder whether that would become a sort of a clone or something. I think we'll see a reveal at E3 for sure, hopefully to coincide with Star Fox Wii U at E3. So, either Wolf or Krystal...but I have a hard time seeing three veterans back to back. I would think they would want to save veterans because they require the least amount of additional programming.

Yeah those slots were speculated to be filled back before the game released. There's no quota for Sakurai to fill with this ballot, I feel. They could take less than 5 characters, exactly 5 characters, or more than 5 characters. It's all speculation at this point.

 

[ChaosOmega]

I can think of a few furry websites you can advertise krystal voting on
Furaffinity, inkbunny, sofurry, deviantart

 

[TheRandomCities4]

Here's a thought.

At this point, I wouldn't be surprised if they're gonna get the veterans out of the way first. Mewtwo, Lucas, Wolf (E3?), and maybe one more.

The reasoning behind this is because the deadline for entry on the ballot is October 3rd this year. That's quite a bit away. There's probably enough time in-between June (Lucas's supposed release) and October to release one more veteran.

Then, when the ballot ends, they'll use the votes to choose which characters that will be made as future DLC after October. Heck, they could use the ballot results for a while to continue making DLC for Smash if they wanted - kind of like a service platform for the DLC. It would certainly keep the interest alive for Smash for a long time.

We'd have to wait a while for the ballot characters, sure, but that's nothing new.

 

[Foxy Renegade]

The way the ballot is set up it seems to be more of a suggestions box due to the lack of any sort of safeguards for spamming votes. Not to mention October 3rd is a long way off. I believe that they'll do a DLC about every 2-3 months and 1 or 2 DLC after that deadline ends. They completed Lucas basically during the production of Mewtwo, so we know veterans take minimal time complete. Not to mention Wolf is predictable, so I imagine they'll throw something big at E3. Could be Krystal, could be someone entirely different. I guess I just don't view the ballot as an actual voting system, just nominations that they will then consider. Either way, we're both speculating someone who has proven to be a bit unpredictable. lol

Sorry to double-post, but I have to bring up the whole Wolf being a clone thing after reading the SSB4Dojo. I just don't understand how people still complain about him being a clone. Yes, he had some similar moves, but I swear the people that swear up and down that he's a clone never play any Star Fox characters. I played Fox and Wolf and they are VERY different in their regards. The only clones that I've seen are Dark Pitt, Lucina, and Dr. Mario. I could see arguing Falco, but still there are characters that are way more similar than those that receive the greatest criticism.

Now for my other complaint, why is it okay for Fire Emblem to grow by two characters (one of which being a clone) and Star Fox can only have 3 (and even lost one)? Yes, I know Star Fox hasn't been hot recently, but it's a classic that they are putting stock into reviving the series on the Wii U.

I apologize, I just get frustrated when reading SSB4Dojo. We just don't have any of the really vocal people backing Krystal, which in my opinion hurts her chances significantly since the loudest jackwagons are the ones that we pay attention to. lol.

 

[TheDarkKnightNoivern]

Here's a thought.

At this point, I wouldn't be surprised if they're gonna get the veterans out of the way first. Mewtwo, Lucas, Wolf (E3?), and maybe one more.

The reasoning behind this is because the deadline for entry on the ballot is October 3rd this year. That's quite a bit away. There's probably enough time in-between June (Lucas's supposed release) and October to release one more veteran.

Then, when the ballot ends, they'll use the votes to choose which characters that will be made as future DLC after October. Heck, they could use the ballot results for a while to continue making DLC for Smash if they wanted - kind of like a service platform for the DLC. It would certainly keep the interest alive for Smash for a long time.

We'd have to wait a while for the ballot characters, sure, but that's nothing new.

4 veterans seems about right if they do it bi-monthly, mewtwo in April, Lucas in June, Wolf in August (Possible star fox release?) and then someone else in Ocober. It doesn't have to be a veteran it could be a newcomer like marshal who we know was planned or a new semi-clone

 

[Delzethin]

Posting later than I intended to, but here we are nonetheless. It seems like we have two major hurdles to deal with for Krystal to gain more support:

1. Misguided views on representation. Wolf being a near-lock at this point doesn't inherently hurt Krystal's chances...but it's making a lot of people give up on her. I keep seeing posts or comments on how "they wouldn't put a second Star Fox character in". I've seen just as many claim that the series "doesn't need four reps". I've even run into the ridiculous "character slot" argument a few times. I'm sure you guys have seen them all as well, right? Most of the fanbase is still convinced we could only get one new character per franchise.

The frustrating part is how adamantly it's believed even though we have so much evidence to the contrary. One could argue that Melee's two Mario characters, two Pokémon characters, and four Zelda characters was due to Smash 64's roster being so small, but it did still happen. Even in Brawl, we saw four Pokémon characters. Most recently, the already rep-heavy Mario series gained both Rosalina and Bowser Jr.

I think our key is the most likely reason both of them got in: both ideas were too good to pass up. Both characters had interesting angles--a puppeteer and a machine pilot--and each had the potential to be compelling additions to the roster. The developers must've realized they were risking oversaturating the game with Mario characters, but in the end, both characters got in.

Wolf is a frontrunner in the ballot, a veteran of the previous Smash game who is dearly missed. Krystal has a less vocal fanbase, but has the moveset potential to rival the likes of Isaac and K. Rool, and would lend naturally toward being a unique character for a series that hasn't had someone unique in Smash in a long time.

Two characters from the same series who both have legitimate claim to joining the roster. If it happened already not even a year ago, why couldn't it happen again?

All we need to do is find a way to convince more of the fanbase.


But even then, we'd still have another problem...and this one's more complicated.


2. For now, let's call this one the "Furry Stigma".

Okay, so we all know the fandom exists. We've seen it in various levels. Some present may even be a part of it. We've seen how some of its more...vocal members act, and how it gets a bad reputation due to them and due to how most media zeroes in on them.

Ordinarily, it wouldn't be relevant...except we're dealing with a character that became more or less a sex icon in some parts of the fandom. Rule 34 spares no one, as they say. Problem is, that part is frustratingly well known around the Internet.

Which brings me to a point that was literally just made:

We just don't have any of the really vocal people backing Krystal,

Why don't we? The same reason so many Krystal supporters have been quiet:

They're afraid of being associated with a fandom that gets regularly harassed in places online and is viewed as being more sexual than it actually is.

This one's tougher to solve. How do we gather greater and more vocal support for a character so stigmatized?

I don't have a definitive answer so far. All I can think of is that we continue our plan for a campaign and get word out about why we think Krystal is such a worthy character. Maybe we can convince more people to support her despite what it may bring from any trolls or degenerates.


But while we focus on that, there is something that'd help is in the long run.

Speaking of, I wonder if it's worth our time to try and garner support on the furry boards of the internet. Krystal is basically how a lot of them got started.

That might actually be a good idea...provided we're smart about how we handle it.

Think of it this way. At their core, the furry fandom is made up of people who think animal-people are interesting. For the majority of them, it doesn't go beyond that...and even for the less work-safe side, it still applies.

Is the whole point of this preliminary campaign talk not about proving how interesting Krystal would be in Smash? To get the furries' attention beyond what attention we already have, we wouldn't need to do anything different other than ensure things reached the right places online.

For minimal extra effort, we could rally support for Krystal from people who wouldn't be afraid of being associated with her.

 

[TheDarkKnightNoivern]

Posting later than I intended to, but here we are nonetheless. It seems like we have two major hurdles to deal with for Krystal to gain more support:

1. Misguided views on representation. Wolf being a near-lock at this point doesn't inherently hurt Krystal's chances...but it's making a lot of people give up on her. I keep seeing posts or comments on how "they wouldn't put a second Star Fox character in". I've seen just as many claim that the series "doesn't need four reps". I've even run into the ridiculous "character slot" argument a few times. I'm sure you guys have seen them all as well, right? Most of the fanbase is still convinced we could only get one new character per franchise.

The frustrating part is how adamantly it's believed even though we have so much evidence to the contrary. One could argue that Melee's two Mario characters, two Pokémon characters, and four Zelda characters was due to Smash 64's roster being so small, but it did still happen. Even in Brawl, we saw four Pokémon characters. Most recently, the already rep-heavy Mario series gained both Rosalina and Bowser Jr.

I think our key is the most likely reason both of them got in: both ideas were too good to pass up. Both characters had interesting angles--a puppeteer and a machine pilot--and each had the potential to be compelling additions to the roster. The developers must've realized they were risking oversaturating the game with Mario characters, but in the end, both characters got in.

Wolf is a frontrunner in the ballot, a veteran of the previous Smash game who is dearly missed. Krystal has a less vocal fanbase, but has the moveset potential to rival the likes of Isaac and K. Rool, and would lend naturally toward being a unique character for a series that hasn't had someone unique in Smash in a long time.

Two characters from the same series who both have legitimate claim to joining the roster. If it happened already not even a year ago, why couldn't it happen again?

All we need to do is find a way to convince more of the fanbase.


But even then, we'd still have another problem...and this one's more complicated.


2. For now, let's call this one the "Furry Stigma".

Okay, so we all know the fandom exists. We've seen it in various levels. Some present may even be a part of it. We've seen how some of its more...vocal members act, and how it gets a bad reputation due to them and due to how most media zeroes in on them.

Ordinarily, it wouldn't be relevant...except we're dealing with a character that became more or less a sex icon in some parts of the fandom. Rule 34 spares no one, as they say. Problem is, that part is frustratingly well known around the Internet.

Which brings me to a point that was literally just made:


Why don't we? The same reason so many Krystal supporters have been quiet:

They're afraid of being associated with a fandom that gets regularly harassed in places online and is viewed as being more sexual than it actually is.

This one's tougher to solve. How do we gather greater and more vocal support for a character so stigmatized?

I don't have a definitive answer so far. All I can think of is that we continue our plan for a campaign and get word out about why we think Krystal is such a worthy character. Maybe we can convince more people to support her despite what it may bring from any trolls or degenerates.


But while we focus on that, there is something that'd help is in the long run.


That might actually be a good idea...provided we're smart about how we handle it.

Think of it this way. At their core, the furry fandom is made up of people who think animal-people are interesting. For the majority of them, it doesn't go beyond that...and even for the less work-safe side, it still applies.

Is the whole point of this preliminary campaign talk not about proving how interesting Krystal would be in Smash? To get the furries' attention beyond what attention we already have, we wouldn't need to do anything different other than ensure things reached the right places online.

For minimal extra effort, we could rally support for Krystal from people who wouldn't be afraid of being associated with her.

But the thing is that Star Fox is a relatively small series when compared to mario and it not having a game release since 2006 doesn't help, Star Fox getting 2 reps really depends on just how big Star Fox Wii U will be and how much nintendo is willing to push it. I do think Star Fox could and should get Wolf and Krystal but with the position the Star Fox series is in it's pretty understandable why most people see it that way.

Although I just thought of something, Wolf is a semi-clone and a Brawl veteran meaning his data can be ported over and simply updated. Now if we got Wolf would that really mean that star fox got a new rep? an old semi-clone. With such little time that would likely go towards Wolf an actual newcomer for the series sounds feasible and of course Krystal is the only worthwhile candidate.

 

[Krayon Kaphonie]

http://tinyurl.com/qdjt7fy

Just thought it would be interesting to share what I came across on gamefaqs. ^^; it's unofficial but it makes me happy seeing my two most wanted I the newcomer list. ^-^

 

[TheDarkKnightNoivern]

http://tinyurl.com/qdjt7fy

Just thought it would be interesting to share what I came across on gamefaqs. ^^; it's unofficial but it makes me happy seeing my two most wanted I the newcomer list. ^-^

I still don't understand why they put Cranky over Dixie. Just wat?

Seriously, minus Bandana Dee anything after the third row down is just bad

 

[jahkzheng]

Posting later than I intended to, but here we are nonetheless. It seems like we have two major hurdles to deal with for Krystal to gain more support:

1. Misguided views on representation. Wolf being a near-lock at this point doesn't inherently hurt Krystal's chances...but it's making a lot of people give up on her. I keep seeing posts or comments on how "they wouldn't put a second Star Fox character in". I've seen just as many claim that the series "doesn't need four reps". I've even run into the ridiculous "character slot" argument a few times. I'm sure you guys have seen them all as well, right? Most of the fanbase is still convinced we could only get one new character per franchise.

The frustrating part is how adamantly it's believed even though we have so much evidence to the contrary. One could argue that Melee's two Mario characters, two Pokémon characters, and four Zelda characters was due to Smash 64's roster being so small, but it did still happen. Even in Brawl, we saw four Pokémon characters. Most recently, the already rep-heavy Mario series gained both Rosalina and Bowser Jr.

I think our key is the most likely reason both of them got in: both ideas were too good to pass up. Both characters had interesting angles--a puppeteer and a machine pilot--and each had the potential to be compelling additions to the roster. The developers must've realized they were risking oversaturating the game with Mario characters, but in the end, both characters got in.

Wolf is a frontrunner in the ballot, a veteran of the previous Smash game who is dearly missed. Krystal has a less vocal fanbase, but has the moveset potential to rival the likes of Isaac and K. Rool, and would lend naturally toward being a unique character for a series that hasn't had someone unique in Smash in a long time.

Two characters from the same series who both have legitimate claim to joining the roster. If it happened already not even a year ago, why couldn't it happen again?

All we need to do is find a way to convince more of the fanbase.


But even then, we'd still have another problem...and this one's more complicated.


2. For now, let's call this one the "Furry Stigma".

Okay, so we all know the fandom exists. We've seen it in various levels. Some present may even be a part of it. We've seen how some of its more...vocal members act, and how it gets a bad reputation due to them and due to how most media zeroes in on them.

Ordinarily, it wouldn't be relevant...except we're dealing with a character that became more or less a sex icon in some parts of the fandom. Rule 34 spares no one, as they say. Problem is, that part is frustratingly well known around the Internet.

Which brings me to a point that was literally just made:


Why don't we? The same reason so many Krystal supporters have been quiet:

They're afraid of being associated with a fandom that gets regularly harassed in places online and is viewed as being more sexual than it actually is.

This one's tougher to solve. How do we gather greater and more vocal support for a character so stigmatized?

I don't have a definitive answer so far. All I can think of is that we continue our plan for a campaign and get word out about why we think Krystal is such a worthy character. Maybe we can convince more people to support her despite what it may bring from any trolls or degenerates.


But while we focus on that, there is something that'd help is in the long run.


That might actually be a good idea...provided we're smart about how we handle it.

Think of it this way. At their core, the furry fandom is made up of people who think animal-people are interesting. For the majority of them, it doesn't go beyond that...and even for the less work-safe side, it still applies.

Is the whole point of this preliminary campaign talk not about proving how interesting Krystal would be in Smash? To get the furries' attention beyond what attention we already have, we wouldn't need to do anything different other than ensure things reached the right places online.

For minimal extra effort, we could rally support for Krystal from people who wouldn't be afraid of being associated with her.

Like I've said a few times, Star Fox Wii U really has the potential to make or break us, so to speak. Krystal needs something fresh for her. People need to be reminded what she's about and why she's unique, and for many it's been too long or they were never impressed to begin with. The stigma she carries now feels more current than her game canon to some because it's continued to be a thing long after her last notable appearance in a game.

And we can't really force people to change their minds or anything, we can just try and speak passionately about the character we choose to support because of "x" or "y" legit reasons. New material coming in for Krystal would absolutely help this.

About the issue of Star Fox getting two characters, I think it's got as legit a claim as any franchise because...

1) Wolf shouldn't have been cut and I think most believe he won't be influenced by the ballot because he's already in the works. Plus, we're not really getting two reps so much as we're restoring the three we had in Brawl and adding another. Maybe it's a fun little loophole explanation and I'm sure many would find exception with it.

2) The numbers speak. Wolf is the most wanted returning vet in just about all polls, particularly by the Japanese. Krystal is a top 5 wanted newcomer in many polls, particularly by the Japanese. Only other franchise that's managing the same two character support is Donkey Kong. Although not related to votes necessarily, I bet a poll asking what franchises could or should have two more reps, DK and Star Fox have little competition from any other franchise repped in Smash.

 

[Wolfheart07]

The way the ballot is set up it seems to be more of a suggestions box due to the lack of any sort of safeguards for spamming votes. Not to mention October 3rd is a long way off. I believe that they'll do a DLC about every 2-3 months and 1 or 2 DLC after that deadline ends. They completed Lucas basically during the production of Mewtwo, so we know veterans take minimal time complete. Not to mention Wolf is predictable, so I imagine they'll throw something big at E3. Could be Krystal, could be someone entirely different. I guess I just don't view the ballot as an actual voting system, just nominations that they will then consider. Either way, we're both speculating someone who has proven to be a bit unpredictable. lol

Sorry to double-post, but I have to bring up the whole Wolf being a clone thing after reading the SSB4Dojo. I just don't understand how people still complain about him being a clone. Yes, he had some similar moves, but I swear the people that swear up and down that he's a clone never play any Star Fox characters. I played Fox and Wolf and they are VERY different in their regards. The only clones that I've seen are Dark Pitt, Lucina, and Dr. Mario. I could see arguing Falco, but still there are characters that are way more similar than those that receive the greatest criticism.

Now for my other complaint, why is it okay for Fire Emblem to grow by two characters (one of which being a clone) and Star Fox can only have 3 (and even lost one)? Yes, I know Star Fox hasn't been hot recently, but it's a classic that they are putting stock into reviving the series on the Wii U.

I apologize, I just get frustrated when reading SSB4Dojo. We just don't have any of the really vocal people backing Krystal, which in my opinion hurts her chances significantly since the loudest jackwagons are the ones that we pay attention to. lol.

That's what bothers me a bit of people saying Wolf is a clone to Fox which in reality he is not. I've played with Wolf alongside with Fox in Brawl and their animation movesets are pretty much different from each other. The only thing obviously that makes him a clone is the Landmaster Final Smash which yes they need to change that up for Wolf and give him something different and something that has to do with his Wolfen which would make a lot more sense.

Now to answer your statement there of the Fire Emblem's roster going from 2 to 4 in this game, that's quite a leap and not to mention that like Starfox, Fire Emblem is a popular series, but not as big as Zelda or Mario(obviously) which in a way leads to say that if the FE roster can have 4 characters, then I don't see why the SF roster can't have 4 and it is not impossible for it to happen. Considering everything that is going on and SF Wii U coming up this year and its major reveal at E3 2015, then this puts the Starfox roster in a better position. Look at Krystal, ever since Brawl and even as of now, she is not only a popular character among the SF community(despite there are those who hate her for illogical reasons which they fall in the minority and there is a major audience who love her), but one who is a popular DLC candidate with a moveset so unique making her different from the SF roster and not to mention the whole roster could use more female characters in a way. Even in Japan now, the Japanese would like anything to have her in Smash 4 like how we in the West want it to and that actually makes her chances even better and it's not just that she's been requested since Brawl, but because of the upcoming SF Wii U game. K. Rool and Dixie are in the same boat here which like Krystal, they are popular characters with their own fanbase, but like us in the West, the Japanese want to see them in as playable DLC characters and I support these fans who want to see them just like how I and everyone of you guys here who are supporting Krystal. So we need to continue forward to make this happen.