Data Prepare Yourself (Ike Match-up thread)

[Cereal Bawks]

Ryo uses QD against Spin Dash sometimes. Not that often, but he does it.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

Ryo uses QD against Spin Dash sometimes. Not that often, but he does it.

I would think given QD's startup they could just jump over it on reaction. Huh.

 

[PyroTakun]

I would think given QD's startup they could just jump over it on reaction. Huh.

It all depends on the spacing, but if Sonic jumps over it you're back in neutral so it's no big deal.

But if it clashes, Sonic wins the jab war like Rango said.

 

[Funkermonster]

How do you guys fare against projectile chars like ,, etc. and what do you do to get around them? Just wondering

 

[Nidtendofreak]

Both of those two are around the 50-50 ranges, you'll probably hear lots of different people saying either 55-45 or 45-55.

Ike's Fair swats out a lot of projectiles, particularly MegaMan's pellets. So it becomes a giant battle of baiting back and forth between the opponents. MegaMan has not much for options up close so once Ike gets in he's dealing a fair bit of damage + MegaMan's KO options ain't great so Ike is living for quite a while.

Toon Link... I don't think there is a single character in the game that doesn't find him annoying. And unlike MegaMan he actually has a few options up close, and trades away some raw killing power for bomb KO set ups.

Gotta be pretty good at powershielding and realizing when a projectile has enough start up that you can punish the pluck with Dash Attack.

 

[Maik93]

I think there is more than just that about MegaMan...
I have a set of Ryo against a MM here he seems to struggle quite a bit...

 

[Arrei]

Getting in on Mega is definitely not as simple as simply chewing through his lemons with Fair. Trying to approach from the air is probably discouraged in general, as the lemons simply come out too quick and too often for our aerials to beat out and we're just gonna get unceremoniously bopped out of the air at best against any Mega who employs retreating aerial lemons with any degree of accuracy. What I've done lately is focus on stealing his Metal Blade by catching it or picking it up on block, then using the opportunity to walk closer since he's lost both a projectile and a setup tool as long as that blade is in play, meaning a little less stuff to watch out for. What to actually do with that blade is up to you, but I prefer to Z-drop it once I've finally gotten close enough where using lemons is a gamble for Mega, either regrabbing it with Nair if I intend to go in raw or using it to pressure for a grab.

 

[Trunks159]

Forgive me if this was already discussed but how should Ike approach the Pika matchup?

 

[---]

http://smashboards.com/threads/match-up-discussion-vs-ike.435671/

The M2 board is looking at Ike next, we would appreciate any thoughts and opinions in regards to this match up.

 

[KronoFox]

In my past experience probably the worst match ups for Ike are Mario and Greninja. I haven't had much trouble against sheiks however. My main weakness is knowing where to up-b when recovering and trying to to get fludded by mario or up-b'd by greninja.

 

[the_muffin]

Mario I can certainly agree with, but I've never had too much trouble with Greninja, but maybe I just haven't played a good one yet.

For me, Cloud and Corrin give me the biggest problems. I play Ike as a spacer 95% of the time and suddenly having to get in close to fight those two gives me problems.

 

[Cereal Bawks]

You shouldn't be getting in close in those matchups. At least that's not what I do when I play them. They both have to respect your fair since it outranges most of their moves.

 

[Macedonian]

I honestly think greninja is one of our hardest MU. He has so many tools to mess with our recovery. he makes us approach him but he is incredibly quick and hard to catch, while he is excellent at using his speed to exploit any mistake we make.

I have heard on here mega man is not a bad matchup for us but I have had problems in the MU. There are to many lemons to swat at all of them away. He can edgegaurd us well with bair, Dair and a Nair. Not to mention his projectiles.

Toon link is hard as hell but I'm not convinced we loose it just yet. Have not played the best toon links ever so I don't know

 

[-m0]

@FrostyLemon or the_muffin If you're still around and if you have 3DS I would love to play some matches with you to help with some of your Cloud problems. How is your internet?

Also a question to the Ike boards. Do you think Ike plays similar to Shulk or Cloud? Personally I think that they're very different in playstyle. At least when I play Ike, I feel that. How do you feel about Ike's placement on the tier list compared to Shulk and Cloud? oh and marth too i guess.

 

[Cereal Bawks]

I think he's more similar to Shulk than Cloud. I used to main Shulk, and I thought Ike just felt like a straight upgrade when I picked him up.

And are you talking about Ike's placement in the official tier list? Because I think he's way too low in general. He should be at least around high mid to low high. But yeah, I think he's a lot higher than Shulk on the tier list, but lower than Cloud.

 

[KronoFox]

@-m0 In my personal opinion Cloud felt a bit more natural to me than shulk when I picked him up because of how similar the hitboxes are for his aerials hence a similar spacing for the character.

 

[-m0]

Yeah. Kinda wish we had your fair sometimes lol. Ike's moves just feel kinda slow, especially uair when compared to clouds frame 7 ****.

 

[Arrei]

That's the price we have to pay for having every aerial sans Nair serving as a kill move, I suppose.

I have to say Ike's closer to Shulk simply because of their movement data, though. Cloud's style of spacing feels like a different beast since he can weave in and out more.

 

[-m0]

Yeah Cloud's low commitment with aerials really does make him different swordsman. One that can force approaches too. Especially in a full hop. Not sure how strong Ike's mix up game froM a full hop is, but Cloud's ability to get multiple high-damage/comboing aerials from a full hop differentiates him from the other two. However, even that may not be worth losing so hard to shields. Ike's grabs terrify me whenever I play against one and I know that Arts scare people a lot too.

Also, does the new angle of nair make nair->Aether a thing at all? I was messing around on FG with Ike and was able to get nair->Aether a couple times, as well as a Quickdraw that killed a Marth at 64% 0_o

 

[Koiba]

Hey there Ikes!

The angels are discussing the radiant hero himself, and we'd love input from your side!

So hop on over~

 

[CHOMPY]

Hey guys, the Dark Pit/Pit boards are discussing the Fox MU, so I came here to invite you guys to it.

Please go to our Pit matchup thread below.

http://smashboards.com/threads/batt...t-matchup-discussion-mega-man-ike-ryu.414936/

 

[PyroTakun]

Hey there Ikes!

The angels are discussing the radiant hero himself, and we'd love input from your side!

So hop on over~

Unfortunately I have no real MU exp against the Pits, but I do know that the shields are an easy gimp on Ike's recoveries if timed and spaced correctly.

 

[Banjobeast158]

Howdy, anyone have some tips against bowser or fox? I know they are both on opposite sides of the spectrum. I think it is because I play too aggressive; anyways, anything would be much obliged.

 

[Arrei]

Honestly, Bowser's a weird case. Both are characters who operate off one creed: let them come to you. Ike and Bowser flourish off of punishing mistakes with their long reach and grab combos... but that means trying to make something happen is detrimental to your success. The best thing I can really say is, if Bowser is campy, use max range attacks and grabs - OoS Fortress is too good to try his shield with haphazard tilts. If he's approaching via walking, as good Bowsers are wont to do, I try to wall him out with retreating aerials, especially Bairs, RAR or otherwise. And if he's aggressive, then it's just a matter of dodging. Once he's in the air, do not let him land as best as you can, his disadvantage state is extremely crippling. He may try to Bowser Bomb the ledge to reset to neutral, but we have Counter, and 24 damage Counters are deadly, to say the least.


For Fox, the only thing I really focus on is to not get caught underneath him. Not only does he have a plethora of long-lasting, quick hitboxes to land on our faces with, but they can lead into kill confirms, some of which we can't even tech with some poor luck. If I do get stuck under him, defense is my highest priority. I don't need to fear his grabs very much, although avoiding them is still prudent, but I definitely don't want to get hit by a sour Nair or Dair into aerial combos or Usmash.

 

[Petersheikah]

I'm having a lot of trouble against Fox too. I can't deal with his great speed and once he starts juggling he can racks up a ton of damage. How should I approach him? Should I approach him at all? Which moves should I punish (other than his Side B)? Should I focus on grounded attacks like pivot tilts and jab or stay in the air and space with Nair and Fair? I can't seem to figure out what's my best option.

Thanks in advance

 

[94Grovestreet]

I'm having a lot of trouble against Fox too. I can't deal with his great speed and once he starts juggling he can racks up a ton of damage. How should I approach him? Should I approach him at all? Which moves should I punish (other than his Side B)? Should I focus on grounded attacks like pivot tilts and jab or stay in the air and space with Nair and Fair? I can't seem to figure out what's my best option.

Thanks in advance

I would say try and space your arials. The little landing lag that Ike has makes them a great spacing tool. Fox, being rather tricky with his approaches can get caught by falling nairs which can combo into fair for nice conversions. Honestly, find the fox's quirks (does he jump a lot, agressive?, etc) and space accordingly.

 

[DariusM27]

Bumping for knowledge. I'm new to Ike smashboards. A few things - a friend of mine is a pretty good Ike and he contacted Ryo to ask for wifi dittos. Ryo said basically he's taking time away from the game for personal reasons, which is why we haven't seen him in over a month.
So if Ryo is gone from Smash for a while, who is going to be the No.1 Ike in tournys? Who should I be rooting for?
Also, I've seen Art of Ike. What other pages should I look into?
Thanks

 

[the_muffin]

San, Rango, Waldo, and Nojinko from Japan are other notable Ike mains. There's another guy in Virginia who goes by BlazerIke who dual mains Ike and Roy. Not as well known as those four, but he came up to Xanadu a few weeks ago and bodied me pretty bad in the ditto.

 

[Banjobeast158]

Bumping for knowledge. I'm new to Ike smashboards. A few things - a friend of mine is a pretty good Ike and he contacted Ryo to ask for wifi dittos. Ryo said basically he's taking time away from the game for personal reasons, which is why we haven't seen him in over a month.
So if Ryo is gone from Smash for a while, who is going to be the No.1 Ike in tournys? Who should I be rooting for?
Also, I've seen Art of Ike. What other pages should I look into?
Thanks

If you scroll down on the Ike page you'll see the "Path of Radiance Guide" made by San. It is old but it has a lot of useful things to know in it.

 

[PyroTakun]

Alright Ike boards, what do we know about the Charizard MU?

 

[Arrei]

I think I'd say prioritize the aerial game. The last time I played a decent Charizard (which was a long time ago, mind) I had a harder time getting in on him from the ground while he was throwing out retreating SH Nairs into jabs and grabs, as the move autocancels and lasts a long time, which allowed him to mix them up with actual approaches to get grabs. His Ftilt sweetspot means ground spacing at maximum range is bad for us, and his jab's reach is just as good as ours, if not better. Our aerial tools on the other hand beat him handily, as his Nair isn't disjointed and his Fair doesn't reach quite as far as ours.

 

[Ekans647]

I struggle to play an active aggressive role, so I prefer to bait and punish against Charizards. Most of his moves have a good amount of cooldown, so go in with your faster moves to punish. Aerial moves, like Arrei said, are also ideal for punishing Charizard's cooldown, and for allowing you some form of aggression. Shields are also a godsend in this MU, again due to Charizard's cooldowns. Shielding right also guarantees grabs setups, and with how vulnerable Charizard is to combos, you can rack large amount of damage. My main issue in this MU is netting the KO. From my experience, the most effective way to KO Charizard is to edgeguard his recoveries. Both Flare Blitz and Fly are heavily susceptible to Counter.

 

[Rango the Mercenary]

Lost to Mekos (Lucas) and Hyper (Roy), taking 5th at a tournament.

For Lucas, it seems really hard to do any kind of boxing against him. That he zones us out with Zair and PK Fire are also difficult. He also doesn't seem to respect our pressure since his recovery is quite good and his grabs are safe, to include a grab kill confirm.

I feel Roy is even or in our favor, but I flat-out got outplayed by Hyper. It seemed hard to zone him out, and his tech-chasing is quite impressive for early kills with FSmash. He does a good job staying in Ike's face, but I feel most of his aerials should be punishable on shield. Looking for ways to punish accordingly and keep him out for good. He took a solid number of grab confirms from me, so at the very least, he has a bad habit of dashing right into my grab.

 

[DariusM27]

Lost to Mekos (Lucas) and Hyper (Roy), taking 5th at a tournament.

For Lucas, it seems really hard to do any kind of boxing against him. That he zones us out with Zair and PK Fire are also difficult. He also doesn't seem to respect our pressure since his recovery is quite good and his grabs are safe, to include a grab kill confirm.

I feel Roy is even or in our favor, but I flat-out got outplayed by Hyper. It seemed hard to zone him out, and his tech-chasing is quite impressive for early kills with FSmash. He does a good job staying in Ike's face, but I feel most of his aerials should be punishable on shield. Looking for ways to punish accordingly and keep him out for good. He took a solid number of grab confirms from me, so at the very least, he has a bad habit of dashing right into my grab.

I really enjoy watching your Ike. I think you can go really far with him.

 

[PyroTakun]

Lost to Mekos (Lucas) and Hyper (Roy), taking 5th at a tournament.

For Lucas, it seems really hard to do any kind of boxing against him. That he zones us out with Zair and PK Fire are also difficult. He also doesn't seem to respect our pressure since his recovery is quite good and his grabs are safe, to include a grab kill confirm.

I feel Roy is even or in our favor, but I flat-out got outplayed by Hyper. It seemed hard to zone him out, and his tech-chasing is quite impressive for early kills with FSmash. He does a good job staying in Ike's face, but I feel most of his aerials should be punishable on shield. Looking for ways to punish accordingly and keep him out for good. He took a solid number of grab confirms from me, so at the very least, he has a bad habit of dashing right into my grab.

Lucas is definitely the harder of the psy kids, and I'm not really a fan of fighting Ness either. It's a constant struggle of getting in close enough to not get hit with Zairs and PK fires, but so close you get grabbed. I consider that to be an unfavorable MU.

Roy I still feel is even. Both characters can combo and gimp each other pretty hard.

 

[Linktest]

I find that Bowser is pretty easy as he is really slow and has a really large hit box.

 

[DariusM27]

I find that Bowser is pretty easy as he is really slow and has a really large hit box.

Bowser runs faster than Marth...

 

[Safelg123]

falcon and ike?

 

[Rango the Mercenary]

falcon and ike?

60-40. Play perfectly or die.

 

[samisawesam]

First post. Corrin main, pocket Ike. I'd say Corrin has at least a slight advantage as she can outspace Ike and he has trouble dealing with her combos/juggling. Eruption can still edgeguard Corrin, but holding down during the up-b will often hit Ike out of it. It's far from a hopeless matchup, as Ike still has some good range and back air OOS is fantastic if Corrin doesn't space well. IMO it's a -1.