Potential Roster/Stage Leak Thread

[TumblrFamous]

I still feel confident that Sakurai will find a way to make them work. He is trying his hardest, so I'll understand if they are or aren't in the game.

 

[Bonren]

The idea that Rhythm Heaven (Sneaky Spirit) and Ice Climbers (Polar Bear) would be Smash Run enemies but not have any playable representation isn't particularly strange to think about, and it's not the first time Smash has had assets in a game, be it music, stage, or playable representative, without accompanying assets.

I see what you're saying, but the only thing that bothers me is that in Brawl, music did not have representation tagged with emblems. Stages, and characters did. During the smash bros direct, it showed every enemy in that smash run presentation tied to an emblem of sorts.

Just imagine if back in the day Sakurai revealed Brawl's Hanenbow stage before the full roster of characters (Which might of happened? I'm not sure lol.) Some would expect a character from that game none the less, because there would have to be some sort of Hanenbow emblem to go along with the stage and potential character. But there was not a character for that stage, YET the emblem tied to the character was indeed playable, which was MR Game and Watch.

All of this is a little loose, but it's worth mentioning I think!

 

[cmbsfm]

Yeah, or just have nana run at 30 fps, so you can at least continue to control a character at 60 fps

Clones like Dark Pit and Dr. Mario are last minute additions to the roster for characters like IC who end up not being able to work in the end. Don't think that they were planned from the start and caused the cut of other characters

but why cut lucas or wolf?

 

[ChunkyBeef]

The issue had to be graphical. The ICs in Melee (4 of them on the screen at once) caused framerate issues on some stages like Fountain of Dreams with the water reflections. The 3DS' limitations he was mentioned was probably the issue with 8 character models on screen at the same time. Rosa/Luma don't have that issue since Luma is more akin to a Pikmin than Nana. This also explains Olimar's 3 pikmin limit as well. There's not an easy solution to Nana for the 3DS except making her extremely low poly and that will look just unacceptable.

I'd think the idea that Ice Climbers might be gone should've been considered from the moment Sakurai admitted that Assist Trophies and Pokemon ran at 30 FPS. The only reason they'd have done this was to ensure the game continued to run smoothly in the midst of all that chaos.

If they're making AT's and Pokemon, comparatively simpler entities compared to the Ice Climbers, run at 30 FPS to preserve graphical integrity throughout the battle, we have to come to grips with the idea that the Ice Climbers might be gone.

Silver lining, though, is at least we get an Ice Climbers allegory in Rosalina, which might explain why she was chosen in the first place.

 

[BombKirby]

I still feel confident that Sakurai will find a way to make them work. He is trying his hardest, so I'll understand if they are or aren't in the game.

At this point the game's done. The roster is chosen. IF this leak is real and if this is the full roster, that's it they ain't in. Unleeeess theirs DLC.

Silver lining, though, is at least we get an Ice Climbers allegory in Rosalina, which might explain why she was chosen in the first place.

Yup part of me always thought Rosalina was a nail in the coffin for the ICs since she's SORT of a duo character that actually can work around the 3ds limitations.

 

[Malcolm Belmont]

Am i the only one who thought Gamexplain 's video on this Leak was well..kinda crappy

 

[Deleted member]

but why cut lucas or wolf?

I don't have an answer for that, and it is disappointing

 

[TheTuninator]

No one else sees the absurdity that even though Lucas is already complete from Brawl and is a 2nd Mother rep... it makes sense that his moveset should be melted down and his scraps given to Ness... but they put in the work to 'Mario in white coat' (and a 7-9th rep?).

Yeah, this is why I'm a bit puzzled about what's going on with Doc. If he's basically a reskin of Mario, it's weird that he's not a skin, and if he's a Melee-status clone, it's really weird that he's in while characters like Lucas and Wolf are MIA.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Yup part of me always thought Rosalina was a nail in the coffin for the ICs since she's SORT of a duo character that actually can work around the 3ds limitations.

She's pretty much your puppeteer character you see in several fighting games. Like, Zato-1, Relius Clover, Chaos, that sort of thing.

 

[LittleMacAndCheese]

Have we seen gameplay of 4 pokemon//assist trophies being used at the same time during a 4 man fight?

On 3ds no... but sakurai knows that it would cause frame rate issues so him and the team could work that stuff out

 

[PingPongCop]

As far as we know, Sakurai didn't specifically say they were working on or having trouble with the Ice Climbers, did he? From what I recall, he said they were having trouble with multi-character fighters and used the Ice Climbers as an example of what he was talking about, but that was before he'd announced Rosalina. If Rosalina had been announced, I'm sure he would've used her as the example.

So I don't think those comments were anything in particular for or against the Ice Climbers. They're just like any other longtime rep like Falco or Ness: unconfirmed, but obviously in the game.

No, I'm pretty sure that the caption mentioned they were having trouble with the Ice Climbers alone. He then went on to go more in depth as to why, but I can't recall what he said because he has since taken the photo off Miiverse.

Also that kind of logic doesn't really prove anything; There has only been 3 Smash games in existence so we don't really have anything to go by. And for all we know this leak could be fake and Falco could be removed for whatever reason. It's Sakurai's choice, he doesn't necessarily have to include a character that has been in the series twice in a row if he doesn't want to.

 

[Stalkos]

I would like to point something, maybe it's not important, but propably is better than duck necks, furniture and if char A vs char B is better in the game.

This is the SSS in the leak:

That grey bar is supposed to be the lower screen right?


Well I was watching the nintendo direct and I saw those:

(This is what the lower screen of the SSS is supposed to look, I think that there was a discussion of this 3 or 4 pages ago.)
No sign of the supposed grey bar. Now this may be because the direct was in april and that menu could not be implemented yet.


Still...

The demos at E3 are not showing that menu either.


Of course the menu could have been purposely hidden for some reason, but at the time of those videos, it was already known that characters can have custom moves and stages can have a final destination form.

 

[BurnStuff]

Source?

Why would they show this off if ice climbers weren't in the game?

Despite what they say about "There is no such thing as bad publicity", mixed messages are actually bad publicity.

 

[OathToAwesome]

Going back to an older talking point: people have been saying that Dr. Mario is more popular than Mario in Melee, but I think it's important to mention why.
Aside from his one-of-a-kind nair, Doc's only real differences with Mario are in stats. Because of this, Dr. Mario is likely the only character in Smash Bros. that we can say is objectively better than another. The good doctor's attacks are superior to his plumber counterpart in damage, knockback, and hitstun. Think of it like this: if you were going to participate in a tournament, would you choose the weaker version of a character?

TL;DR: Saying Dr. Mario is more popular competitively than Mario in Melee isn't really a valid point for his inclusion because Dr. Mario is objectively better than Mario in Melee.

As a side note, it's also notable that Lucina is not a new character because her moves are notably different from Marth: she's a new character because she's not Marth. Dr. Mario is Mario.

 

[Croshi]

I would like to point something, maybe it's not important, but propably is better than duck necks, furniture and if char A vs char B in game.

This is the SSS in the leak:

That grey bar is supposed to be the lower screen right?


Well I was watching the nintendo direct and I saw those:

(This is what the lower screen of the SSS is supposed to look, I was that there was a discussion of this 3 or 4 pages ago.)
No sign of the supposed grey bar. Now this may be because the direct was in april and that menu could not be implemented yet.


Still...

The demos at E3 are not showing that menu either.


Of course the menu could have been purposely hidden for some reason, but at the time of those videos, it was already known that characters can have custom moves and stages can have a final destination form.

They probably took them out of the demo because you can't change the settings.

 

[Casey_Contra]

I know that if they drastically changed the ICs to be more of a mimic type thing rather than it's own AI, I would be incredibly thrown off. Sure, characters change and all, but I would be like "ummm... Nana, what the hell are you doing get over here. NANA! Stop being dumb what the..."

Obviously I would get used to it, but just a thought. I'm fine with them being cut, even though I used to main them.

 

[TumblrFamous]

At this point the game's done. The roster is chosen. IF this leak is real and if this is the full roster, that's it they ain't in. Unleeeess theirs DLC.

But that's only if the leak is real.

I'm just waiting for a stage reveal or a veteran reveal. That will make or break the leak.

 

[UnownLegend]

They could have her framerate be capped at 30

 

[fanboss2]

Are you guys talking about this article ? How do we know it's not just ign giving an example and not Sakurai ?

 

[Bonren]

Why would they show this off if ice climbers weren't in the game?

Despite what they say about "There is no such thing as bad publicity", mixed messages are actually bad publicity.

This is it for me right here...this pic coupled with my previous post...I just can't roll with the idea of them being cut.

 

[ChunkyBeef]

Why would they show this off if ice climbers weren't in the game?

Because it's an article about Smash Run, the Polar Bear is a Smash Run enemy, and the only people that care about the Ice Climbers returning to Smash are those of us who actually follow Smash updates with this kind of fervor.

 

[Champ Gold]

You do realize that they can make Popo run at 60 FPS and Nana at 30 right?

I mean it's not intierely impossible since Nana lags and it would be a way to balance them from their chain grabs.

Plus I'm still on the fake side and will forever be on it because Dark Pit and Bowser Jr are major, MAJOR red flags and especially the placement of the clones and how horrible looking Wario and Ganondorf's models are.

 

[fanboss2]

Of course the menu could have been purposely hidden for some reason, but at the time of those videos, it was already known that characters can have custom moves and stages can have a final destination form.

This menu is to show the rule of the match (stock/time/coin and stuff), since these rules were preset at the E3, it does make sense this was hidden. Kinda. Maybe.

 

[8BitBlackMage]

But that's only if the leak is real.

I'm just waiting for a stage reveal or a veteran reveal. That will make or break the leak.

I thought the leak also talked about how there was more characters to unlock... or did i miss something about how that was false.

 

[Casey_Contra]

Going back to an older talking point: people have been saying that Dr. Mario is more popular than Mario in Melee, but I think it's important to mention why.
Aside from his one-of-a-kind nair, Doc's only real differences with Mario are in stats. Because of this, Dr. Mario is likely the only character in Smash Bros. that we can say is objectively better than another. The good doctor's attacks are superior to his plumber counterpart in damage, knockback, and hitstun. Think of it like this: if you were going to participate in a tournament, would you choose the weaker version of a character?

TL;DR: Saying Dr. Mario is more popular competitively than Mario in Melee isn't really a valid point for his inclusion because Dr. Mario is objectively better than Mario in Melee.

As a side note, it's also notable that Lucina is not a new character because her moves are notably different from Marth: she's a new character because she's not Marth. Dr. Mario is Mario.

Your point about Lucina is incorrect. Here is Sakurai's quote:

"However, even though Lucina shares her physical stats and techniques with Marth, the characteristics of their attacks differ. When two such similar characters function in an even slightly different manner, I give them a separate spot on the roster since that will affect battle records and whatnot. In that sense, you could say she was very lucky to join the fray!"

She was going to be an alt, but it was her abilities that changed that, not the fact that she is canonically a separate character.

 

[Pokechu]

I'm sorry to intrude and if this is off-topic, but does the leak have any mention of a Rhythm Heaven rep? I'd love Chorus Men/Kids/Marshal/whoever to be in. c:

 

[TumblrFamous]

I thought the leak also talked about how there was more characters to unlock... or did i miss something about how that was false.

Who knows. The leak is all over the place. But there is as much going for it as there is as much going against it.

But I too agree that the models for Wario and Ganondorf aren't all that great.

 

[Stalkos]

This menu is to show the rule of the match (stock/time/coin and stuff), since these rules were preset at the E3, it does make sense this was hidden. Kinda. Maybe.

Yes maybe.
In the E3 demo there is a convenient grey bar up in the lowerscreen where this menu could be placed. Even the "return" button is the same of the leak.

Sadly, this proves nothing because, or the 'leaker' was able to get those images to forge the customization menu in their images, or the leaks real and the menu is simply supposed to be fit there.

 

[8BitBlackMage]

I'm sorry to intrude and if this is off-topic, but does the leak have any mention of a Rhythm Heaven rep? I'd love Chorus Men/Kids/Marshal/whoever to be in. c:

It only mentions the chorus boys in the possible DLC section

 

[EgeDal]

i think shulk's not getting in because everybody is like "shulk's in no matter what!" and that's something sakurai doesn't like. Bye bye shulk, i'll miss you

 

[8BitBlackMage]

i think shulk's not getting in because everybody is like "shulk's in no matter what!" and that's something sakurai doesn't like. Bye bye shulk, i'll miss you

so what you're saying is we could band together and remove any character by being like "random is in no matter what!" and he would just remove it? :0

 

[TumblrFamous]

i think shulk's not getting in because everybody is like "shulk's in no matter what!" and that's something sakurai doesn't like. Bye bye shulk, i'll miss you

Bye bye palutena, i'll miss you

 

[MasterOfKnees]

i think shulk's not getting in because everybody is like "shulk's in no matter what!" and that's something sakurai doesn't like. Bye bye shulk, i'll miss you

Shulk only became that popular a choice after Gematsu part 2 in April. Sakurai is not going to remove a character they've already made just because people expect him.

 

[EgeDal]

so what you're saying is we could band together and remove any character by being like "random is in no matter what!" and he would just remove it? :0

Well loads of fake leaks, billions of hope, remember what he did us with Chrom, or Mewtwo tease, it will be the same. We're not getting Shulk, that's not just a band of people, that's almost everyone.

 

[BindingBlade]

Bye bye palutena, i'll miss you

Bye bye Little Mac, I'll miss you

 

[EgeDal]

Bye bye palutena, i'll miss you

palutena is not the same case

 

[8BitBlackMage]

Bye bye Little Mac, I'll miss you

Bye bye Game and watch, I'll miss you

 

[EgeDal]

Bye bye Game and watch, I'll miss you

game&watch is not confirmed so not funny

 

[BindingBlade]

Back to the point, I stand firm in my belief that one of either Mewtwo or a clone character will be the last unlockable, if any at all.

 

[8BitBlackMage]

Back to the point, I stand firm in my belief that one of either Mewtwo or a clone character will be the last unlockable, if any at all.

I completely agree, it would make sense if game and watch was a final unlock as well, but i can see making mewtwo one, as he skipped a game and would be a huge secret unlock, which would be awesome.